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High Strength/Supp TM

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4/25/2013 1:32:27   
H O L L O W
Member

Hi, I have lately been seeing alot of TM's using a build similiar to the old Strength BM build. This build is basically a 3 hit kill. The thing that makes is possible is the azreal pistol. They basically just put everything into strength and supp. Extremely high sup means they go first. They malf u, doing decent damage because of their high strength. Then u get one chance to do an attack, and after that they use pistol special to make you strike, so that you can't kill them (and it also does ALOT of damage). Then they just finish you off with their aux. I have been seeing many TM's at the top of the Leader-board using this build. Being a bounty, I have not found one counter to this build yet. If i try putting up shield after they malf, they simply use azreal aux special and take it away. If i try to smoke, they pistol, forcing me to strike and then they kill me. If i try to heal, they just keep attacking and kill me in two hits. This game is supposed to be about strategy and there is nothing strategic in using a 3 hit kill build with OP weps to ensure victory. The only time I ever beat these people is if I get lucky and block, but I dont want to have to rely on luck to win so please fix this. I know that alot of others are also getting very frustrated by getting beat by this OP build.
Post #: 1
4/25/2013 1:44:49   
master x guardian
Member

The build you see most people complain about on TMs is the Caster Mage. Personally, I don't immediately see much of an issue with the build you just described. In the post-Omega environment, we have far fewer stats to invest in things and therefore, attaining that high of offensive power means that their defense is quite crippled. Due to high diminishing returns on strength and support, their health can't possibly be too high either.

However, I will say that this build does sound fairly overwhelming after some thought, but I don't think it's necessarily the Azrael weapons that do it, as you believe it is. Rather, I believe it is because that debuffs give far too much for their cost. While our overall stat points were decreased thus lowering our offensive and defensive power, the scaling on the debuffs has not changed at all (Malfunction being the exception but that was just to bring it in line with Smoke Screen).

Personally I believe they both need looking into because both defensive debuffs:
1) Provide a strike while weakening your opponent simultaneously.
2) Boost rage of user.

Due to diminishing returns on support, players are forced to allocate A LOT of stats into it if they want a powerful Aux. Since the scaling on Malfunction has changed very little, this excess of Support means that you are losing A LOT of defense, even for Delta standards. On average, Malfunction and Smoke Screen seem to take away around 36-40 stat points at very low investment levels.

< Message edited by master x guardian -- 4/25/2013 1:48:02 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 2
4/25/2013 2:00:45   
Mother1
Member

I can think of a few counters to this build. Here is one I thought of. Use the yeti's special to remove their gun and aux after then malf you, and since they will already have low dex use smoke to make their defenses weaker as well as increase your chances to block. you will still have a few turns before their weapons come back so use this time to take them down and run out the malf.

Another counter I use as a TM against support builds abusing this promo is to put up a shield after they malf me. Sure the shield itself will be weakened, but in doing so they wasted their aux doing only 85% damage effectively taking away one of their strongest weapons.
Epic  Post #: 3
4/25/2013 2:45:21   
NDB
Member

^not everyone uses the yeti and doing 85% damage is well worth the 10+ damage the gain from the next hits. Plus a lot of them have max bludgeon and not all classes have Energy Shield/Technician (which is kinda crappy anyway)
Epic  Post #: 4
4/25/2013 2:45:57   
Dual Thrusters
Member

Yes! Battlemage is rising to the top >:D

It's not Op, it's just really effective. And it isn't focus! (Well mine is :p)

< Message edited by Dual Thrusters -- 4/25/2013 2:47:28 >
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 5
4/25/2013 2:51:23   
Blitzex/Sr. Zeph
Banned


 A friend of mine made a very effective Anti Sup/Str TM build over here.
He never lost from such a build so this build can be countered.
Epic  Post #: 6
4/25/2013 2:55:05   
santonik
Member

im very trouble against them. Malf destoy my defence then they attack gun/aux and something strong maybe meteor core. I dont have changes counter them anything way. Im play mercenary.
Epic  Post #: 7
4/25/2013 2:55:42   
King FrostLich
Member

That is the fastest build I can take down and I'm a cyber hunter. The only problem is getting critted or a plasma meteor.
Epic  Post #: 8
4/25/2013 9:23:29   
Necromantres
Member

when he heal..the mage should made him atack with azael core and than try to finish him or heal
Epic  Post #: 9
4/25/2013 10:06:50   
Melbourne
Member

I actually as a level 32 find this quite easy to kill as a TLM (not surgical build) Get enough defense and they don't do much because of the effect of diminishing stats...
AQW Epic  Post #: 10
4/25/2013 10:56:05   
ale6300
Member

This build is the prefectly counter to any 5 focus build an the bane of the 5 focus BH they are extremely hard to defeat, the best strategy is to going full offensive smoke, strike, strike or meteor shower (dont use any physical gun or aux because you can be deflected easily)
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 11
4/25/2013 11:11:44   
Sensei Chan
Member

There Are Not Many Counters For Mercenary On This Build As They Have No Shields To Counter The Malfunction Also I'm Blood Mage And I Always Get Beaten By Them Guys Its Because They Can Nerf Are Shields With There Aux And Then Use The Azreal Gun Ability Then After That They Get Rage And Kill You.
I'm Happy You Complained About This Build Because I'm Thinking The Same Thing I Didn't Want To Make A Thread About This Because It Would Ruin My Popularity And People Would Attempt To Troll Me And Make Me Look Like A Total Idiot That Complains All The Time.
That Is Why I Never Make Any Threads Of My Own Anymore Because People Say Things That Make Me Seem Stupid .

< Message edited by Sensei Chan -- 4/25/2013 11:16:00 >
Epic  Post #: 12
4/25/2013 11:47:16   
Ranloth
Banned


 The build is fine. I use Hazard Bot which is Poison thus not as efficient on low defences but my other attacks make up for it, blockable or not. Shielding works quite well when you get Malfed and blocks/deflections can aid you even further. With Yeti, it's much easier but for me, I have Hazard and not relying on the Poison.

It's good to see some variety at least.
AQ Epic  Post #: 13
4/25/2013 19:30:50   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Battle mage isn't necessarily OP. I don't like fighting them because it just turns into a luck fight of whether or not I deflect them, or whether or not they don't crit me. The build itself has only a decently average ratio, but I personally dislike fighting them because it's pretty much a luck fight.
Epic  Post #: 14
4/25/2013 19:34:45   
goldslayer1
Member

how is this build OP?
it gets terrible %. just because you cant beat it, doesn't mean its OP.
if anything, its more of an indication that azrael is the problem.

this build would be even more terrible (and more luck reliant, since they have bad dex) if it wasn't for azrael.
AQW Epic  Post #: 15
4/25/2013 20:59:15   
NDB
Member

^Its not OP but it doesn't mean its balanced. As a 5 focus BH, the ones with Azrael weps (most of them do btw) are 100% unbeatable unless you block or get extremely lucky in some other way. I can see how they are bad and end up with 50-70% win rates, it is still very frustrating to fight them.
Epic  Post #: 16
4/25/2013 21:03:56   
goldslayer1
Member

@NBD
the build still gets terrible %.
the only reason its useable for is if your going for speed.
and its only fast because its a byproduct of the current balance (low hp, luck factors, and cores)
same as the str mercs, all speed no efficiency.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 4/25/2013 21:05:06 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 17
4/25/2013 21:09:36   
NDB
Member

^did u read it? I said
quote:

I can see how they are bad and end up with 50-70% win rates
Epic  Post #: 18
4/25/2013 21:52:51   
Tushar
Member

You can use yeti... I do it the most then i debuff myself...
Epic  Post #: 19
4/26/2013 1:18:03   
H O L L O W
Member

@goldslayer

Dude, have you checked the LB recently? Half the members from Vivid have changed into TM in favor of that build. It gets extremly fast kills and they sometines have over an 80 win percentage. Also, as a focus bounty who doesnt have azreal it is literally impossible for me to beat them without a crit or block.
Post #: 20
4/26/2013 1:23:05   
H O L L O W
Member

@NDB

70 percent is actually quite good for Omega considering all the luck factors. Having a fast kill build that can get that high of a percentage is whats making TM's dominate the LB.
Post #: 21
4/26/2013 2:37:42   
edwardvulture
Member

@Thrusters, this is a glass cannon, not a battlemage. I have a battlemage build.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 22
4/26/2013 2:46:33   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

Dude, have you checked the LB recently? Half the members from Vivid have changed into TM in favor of that build. It gets extremly fast kills and they sometines have over an 80 win percentage. Also, as a focus bounty who doesnt have azreal it is literally impossible for me to beat them without a crit or block.

we get the point, u dont know how to counter the build. but theres no need to exaggerate the winning %s.

i saw E Z R A with the build ur describing, and he's getting 58%.
comical had a similar 60% aswell.
AQW Epic  Post #: 23
4/26/2013 3:37:14   
Sensei Chan
Member

Comical Biker Is A Tactical Mercenary On Surgical Strike Build!
Epic  Post #: 24
4/26/2013 3:46:23   
goldslayer1
Member

@sensei
he was a tech mage last i saw him (which was like 2 days ago)
AQW Epic  Post #: 25
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