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RE: Epic Duel's Decline

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5/19/2013 8:30:10   
Ranloth
Banned


 I do agree on the decimal part. I'd believe they are rounded to 1 D.P. so multiplying by 10 would pretty much get rid off them. Whilst it's the same but higher numbers, one issue with decimals would be solved quite nicely. I believe OS has done it since their numbers are much higher than they initially were.
AQ Epic  Post #: 101
5/19/2013 8:40:06   
Melissa4Bella
AmeSylph


 I think your missing the greater point. As such, I'm going to answer some of your remarks as best as I can and hopefully, it will help settle the issues stated to a greater degree. Not just for you but for others as well.

quote:

Don't assume I'm stupid, I know this. Whenever one of my posts get deleted and I don't get a message saying it was deleted, I would've already expected it to happen.


I'm not assuming anybody is "stupid". But at the same time, I wanted to be very clear and not misunderstood in any way. Obviously, some players do not realize or understand, which is a problem in and of itself. So, while restating the obvious might seem redundant to you it might not be for somebody else.

quote:

quote:

Example of Constructive Criticism:
"I didn't partularly like this war because it felt too empty. To have made it better, I think the staff could have had a 50% cutscene to unlock rather than just a shop to progress the storyline. As it was, I personally was a little dissapointed that this war felt more rushed than previous wars, however I do understand that the staff had a lot on their plate when making this release.
That said, I greatly enjoyed the boss fight, the animations and art fit perfectly with the song that was playing in the background. So while not one of the best wars DF have done, I still enjoyed it. Thank you, DF staff!"

Things like this is the one thing that keeps you guys happy right?


Out of that whole example given, using one small section of it to debate or question is misleading and misconstrueing the whole point, especially when taken out context. The correct context of it is how somebody can explain: what they like and what they dislike about a release, while at the same time remaining respectful and courteous. Again, not an unreasonable or difficult thing to do.

quote:

Because when I see detailed posts about things they didn't like, it soon gets deleted. Don't ask me to prove it since how do you expect me to find it?


I'm not asking you to prove anything. I simply stated that if posts are edited or deleted, it was done because a rule/rules were broken.

quote:

Never asked for this. If I meant this, I would've said "...constructive criticism...".


You do not need to ask for it, the forums require it.

Constructive criticism is required because it benefits everyone and not just a few. Tantrums, snide remarks and chaos benefit nobody and will not be allowed. And at the risk of being repetitive it is not an unreasonable or difficult requirement.


And before this goes on any further I'm just going to state that the rules are easy to follow, reasonable and fair. If you want your opinion to be valued, the process is simple. The purpose of this thread is to discuss feedback on the game, let's move on back to that.

quote:

If you think I'm flamming, I'm sorry. There's exams going on this week and the stress of revising is quite high to be honest.


Good luck!
AQ DF  Post #: 102
5/19/2013 8:48:01   
Xendran
Member

quote:

Tantrums, snide remarks and chaos benefit nobody


This actually depends. Chaos can be useful in small amounts, i made a fairly chaotic couple of threads directly calling out specific flaws and incidents that the PoE devs GGG were making with how they were handling their feedback and communication.
They started going through what ED went through, where the devs started to not respond as frequently to feedback (The dynamic of feedback is different there, and some of the issues are very glaring, but potentially intentional and not planned to ever change. It needs to be responded to in order to know whether or not it's worth actually posting feedback), and it was a steady decline.

Said threads gained a LOT of traction in the community, and gained the attention of the devs.
Few weeks later, and we're now getting daily news updates and frequent dev posts in every feedback section.

If by any chance you're interested in looking at the content of it, let me know and i'll PM it to you. It contains a link to another game site, and i believe links to sites related to other games are banned on AEF under advertisement (which garners a bit of hatred towards AE from the gaming general, and is actually self-harming because of it).

< Message edited by Xendran -- 5/19/2013 8:52:44 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 103
5/19/2013 10:17:01   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 Like Xendran said chaos is healthy in small doses because without chaos we do not know what normalcy is. Really we don't know what normalcy is anyways but whatever you get the point.

The point I was coming back to make is that I just logged on about 30 minutes ago to check someones point that server usage is down and frankly that doesn't seem to hold true. There were times I would log in during Beta and Gamma and not have to worry about a full server but when I just logged on I saw a full Epic and 400 souls on Exile. I believe servers max out at 1K players right now so that makes 1.4K people playing which is an increase over times past especially since there is really nothing special happening in game right now
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 104
5/19/2013 10:23:59   
Xendran
Member

You just checked the game at 10am EST on a sunday and use it as a judge for the average number of players...?

< Message edited by Xendran -- 5/19/2013 10:24:08 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 105
5/19/2013 10:25:41   
Lord Barrius
Member
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Renegade Reaper

@Lord Barrius your interest should be for both keeping the current players playing, AND bring more to the game.
I work on a nearly 11-year old game. Our incoming players are not nearly as large as the amount of players we already have, so if I'm obligated to choose between one or the other (and sometimes we are), I'm going to make the current players happy first and foremost.

A new game should always look to listen to potential incoming players first, true. But we're not talking about a new game, ED has been around for a while now. So the focus at this stage in game development is usually retention. And while people keep insisting that they are doing a poor job at that, I'd point out that there have still been no metrics shown for this apart from people's personal anecdotes. And anecdotes are not data.

Again, people said the same of AQ. Then we had a period when we pulled off the server caps during the summer, and our game was consistently beating DF and MQ's server numbers combined at virtually every time of the day for the entire duration of that promotion. Suffice it to say we don't exactly break into a fevered panic about the times when our numbers seem a bit low any more, especially since this is still a low-active-player season. I usually wait until June or July to get a better picture of things.

quote:

why should players who quit have a bigger voice? because if the number of players quitting is rising, something is
wrong.
Not necessarily. Every game in existence experiences an exodus of players in the first few years after its release. Games that continue to grow exponentially for years ala WoW are actually pretty rare (and you'll notice that even WoW is finally starting to experience an exodus of its own, partially because gamers' attention to one game no longer holds like it used to with so many titles to choose from). The norm is an activity spike early in release, then a drop off in players, then the game levels off. At that point it either drops further or grows at a very small and steady rate.

That's why the important metric is how many players you are AFTER the exodus rather than before it.

As to the first part, I strongly believe that when you quit playing a game, you forfeit the right to "demand" anything of that game's staff. I've quit games in the past, but I never stuck around in their forums demanding they alter the game to suit my tastes so that I can come back. Yet we have a handful in this forum who do precisely that. Sorry, but the active players are the ones who get the bulk of the attention and who deserve to be heard the most, followed by new players or folks who might be thinking of picking up the game for themselves. That places the opinion of those who have quit playing somewhere behind those two priorities, especially since it is quite rare (again, with WoW being one of the exceptions) that people will return to a game they've quit months ago, as some of you profess to doing.

< Message edited by Lord Barrius -- 5/19/2013 10:28:38 >
Post #: 106
5/19/2013 10:30:13   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 Xendran this has been my normal play time since Beta and it was a number that has stuck with me. I will be checking throughout the next two weeks as well as going over my EDMU videos because I started a good majority of them at the server screen to see player count, the ones I recorded right after an update will mean nothing in terms of a data point since more often then not the number of players was 4. All data has to have a starting point and comparing that data point to others over 3 years or so, even if I am the only person who has the data remembered, is still a data point

< Message edited by One Winged Angel1357 -- 5/19/2013 10:34:20 >
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 107
5/19/2013 10:35:23   
Xendran
Member

quote:

why should players who quit have a bigger voice?


They shouldn't. The people who should have a 'bigger' voice are the people who know what they're talking about.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 108
5/19/2013 10:41:36   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 How would you qualify someone to say that they know what they are talking about because you and me both know there are people who think they know what they are talking about and people who actually know what they are talking about. For your thinking to work we would need a way to separate the two and I am interested in hearing how you would do this


Post edited to remove a quote from the post directly above, which isn't needed ~M4B

< Message edited by Melissa4Bella -- 5/19/2013 11:16:17 >
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 109
5/19/2013 10:45:53   
Xendran
Member

By paying attention to your community.
None of this will happen anyway, ED will stay in its permanent broken state until they either hire a balancer, or sacrifice a very large amount of content time for a full overhaul.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 110
5/19/2013 10:50:48   
Sageofpeace
Member

Lord Barrius: maybe you should really take a look on how Ed does thing

are they really doing things to keep their current player, they literally turn over 500 dollars in to a 50 dollar worth of money when they release omega removing Enhancements even more for some players. they said they wanted to make varuim in to a shortcut yet they introduce Cores just as expensive as Enhancements. you ask for civility in the forum when they keep making our money lose it value so easy for example take a look at the current Core system they have yet to release a core shop, people keep wasting their money buying single cores for every weapon once they milk everything they can out of it, they are gonna release the core shop make everyone who spend over 100's dollar over RAGE!!. yet they have time to release a email system in a pvp game instead of focusing in something that could turn in to big trouble in the future but since they know that you are here to hammer us they don't really care(they took 3 weeks to release a mail system which is still incomplete). is so frustrating to spend 50 dollar on a promo for it description to have nerf a week after which is happening too often. you the team that got me mad the must is when they do their mistake and turn in to a in game achievement. like you say ed has been here for a while people can no longer tolerate this many mistakes.PLEASE JUST TAKE A LOOK AT THE GAME AND SEE WHY PLAYER ARE SO MAD
Post #: 111
5/19/2013 11:44:59   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 It would actually be in the interest of business to listen to long-time players as if they have a bigger voice. Most players who have varium didn't get it until around level 25+, and varium is obviously a main way of conducting business for the ED staff. While this is unfair to newer players, it's unfortunately the way things are. Most newer players don't buy varium until they've played for a while.
Epic  Post #: 112
5/19/2013 15:10:17   
Lord Barrius
Member
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Exploding Penguin

It would actually be in the interest of business to listen to long-time players as if they have a bigger voice. Most players who have varium didn't get it until around level 25+, and varium is obviously a main way of conducting business for the ED staff. While this is unfair to newer players, it's unfortunately the way things are. Most newer players don't buy varium until they've played for a while.
[citation needed]

Can't speak for ED, but in other F2P games, the older players usually *aren't* the ones paying the bulk of the bills, it's the newer low leveled players who are paying to get an early edge as they advance through the game. After all, they paid nothing for the game, so spotting the game five to ten bucks early on still puts them well ahead compared to a $60 retail game. There's always those older individuals who have played for a long time that will invest tons into a specific game, but they're more of a rare case than the norm.

Can't say for sure, of course, but I'm guessing if we took a look at the sales records, you might be surprised where most of the money is coming from.

That's not to say that older players should never be appealed to. But the origin of a game's income is definitely something to be considered, and I'm willing to wager that it's not coming from the self-proclaimed quitters. :P

< Message edited by Lord Barrius -- 5/19/2013 15:11:36 >
Post #: 113
5/19/2013 15:18:28   
Xendran
Member

From what i've personally seen of ED, it has small number of "10k pack a week" players, and a slightly larger "10k pack a month" audience that keeps it rolling.
I see a fairly vast minority of new players using varium.

This is just what i've seen, though.


EDIT: Heh, vast minority. That's an interesting one.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 114
5/19/2013 18:20:46   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 While I can't verify it, the last few times I made level 1 characters and played them through to level 25+ (I've done this 3-4 times), there were always more varium players in the higher levels than there were in the lower half of the level range. It's possibly changed since I haven't made new characters in a long time.
Epic  Post #: 115
5/20/2013 11:52:06   
zion
Member

@LB
I think AQ is an unfair comparison (check my profile, I know the game). One of the things I enjoy about AQ is the ability to play for 10 minutes here and there: Defend my estate, ballyhoo, some war fights, hunt for a specific item etc. How many people logged in at that time has absolutely no impact on my gameplay. When it comes to ED the devs have changed the game to eliminate gaining experience,influence etc. through anything other than pvp. That's fine because its a pvp game. BUT, on average, when someone logs into ED the server numbers are incredibly low which directly influences the gaming experience. I hope you can understand this important difference and why the game is more frustrating than ever.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 116
5/20/2013 16:05:11   
comicalbike
Member

i agree we have nothing to do
Epic  Post #: 117
5/20/2013 16:25:33   
Xendran
Member

Here's a good way to get some player interest.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 118
5/20/2013 17:15:15   
Stabilis
Member

^

I think the idea is nifty too.

But,

** Here is a way to get some (good) player interest. **
AQ Epic  Post #: 119
5/24/2013 2:48:53   
Bloodpact
Member

My god so much to read my eyes and bran literately hurt.[so i skipped a good 75% skimmed the rest lol]

I'll just make summery points[ my god if more ppl could do this without ranting to save me pain that would be lovely]

---> I've seen some decline after Omega as stated Epic and Exile use to be full a hella lot now you rarely see epic full[someone stated this]

--->is epicduel dieing? Well it's not dieing more like it's injured? Just needs a metaphorical "bandage" something Epic XD! and for the players to tough through it. [Like Xendran's idea >:D]

--->I like potatoes.

--->[insert mods name here(there was like 3 of you i don't remember....)] has a good point on how players need to stop complaining so much, they will only be ignored.
more of the constructive criticism or positive feedback. If you ppl spent less time complaining maybe they could spend more time improving the *** game and less
dealing with you immature children.

--->@ Xendran that idea is godly, something like that would compel major interest to not only me, but old and new players alike i'm sure ! x]

--->Lastly would like to thank the mods for all the attention, good to see the large player to mod interaction. :D

Yall have a good day~
Epic  Post #: 120
5/30/2013 19:17:45   
fhiz
Member

I've been logging on about once a month since omega released just to see what's going on and I just don't enjoy the game anymore.

I just think all the new features are a little ambitious for such a small staff and I think they could keep a larger percentage happy if they streamlined it a bit.


Epicduel is not WoW and they shouldn't try to be a game that forces people to spend hundreds of dollars and hundreds of hours to stay on top. It should be a casual game that you can hop on, do a couple battles, and hop off. That's my biggest problem with omega(where it started declining for me). It forced existing players to re-learn the game which is not something I wanted to invest my time in, and since I haven't learned all the new mechanics, it's why I don't enjoy it now.


Anyway, I just think they bit off more then they could chew and it would take months of content free, balance only releases to get it to a solid state again.

^Ha. I said that when omega was released and that was months ago sooooo.....take it for what it's worth.

_____________________________

My Mechquest Channel
Post #: 121
5/31/2013 0:16:53   
SouL Prisoner
Member

Their was 0% need for core system.. Players *ONLY* complained that the enhancements were way to expensive and not that enhancement sys was not so working.. All they had to do was to reduce the price of enhancements and the whole "BIG" complaining would have stopped! Instated they wasted time and replaced enhan... with core sys .. "totally" waste of time.

That's the complete view/opinion of mine on "Omega, and its core system"

< Message edited by SOuL Prisnor -- 5/31/2013 0:17:39 >

_____________________________
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 122
5/31/2013 1:48:43   
Giras Wolfe
Member

Older players shouldn't get a bigger voice because they're the best source of revenue.

They should get a bigger voice because they understand the way the game works and the patterns it falls into, and they care about the game, and put significant amounts of time and effort into thinking of and proposing solutions to the game's issues.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 123
5/31/2013 2:30:46   
Scyze
Member

quote:

Older players shouldn't get a bigger voice because they're the best source of revenue.
Here we have someone who understands.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 124
5/31/2013 18:37:00   
Angels Holocaust
Member

Unless government is small, man cannot be free.


It looks like the players are finally waking up, took them 3 and a half years to do so. You guys have also realized that all progression has halted since beta. All these balance updates are regulations placed onto the players. With each new phase, we deal with a new set of balance issues that do nothing but hinder the creativity of the players. I'm sure the devs will realize this when there are below 500 players left. Until then, just sit back and wait for it to all end. I'm still here, I may not play but I always participate on the forums.

When this game finally collapses, I'll be back. It was once fun and I'm sure it will be fun again when the Devs decide to let the players think.
Post #: 125
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