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RE: Assault Bot buff

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5/15/2013 17:39:33   
Mother1
Member

@ Toopygoo

They started at 80% with their abilities but they were nerfed because they were too useful and made buffing almost worthless.

@ goldslayer

The staff wanted buffs and debuffs to have some effect even after dealing with these bots so that was why they were nerfed. Also even though the azreal's borg does attack with it's debuff ability it and the assault bot are to opposites of the same coin. They are used to counter each other with effect (which many don't see) so that was why their %'s are always the same.
Epic  Post #: 26
5/15/2013 17:51:04   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

hmm lets see, azrael's borg: a promotional bot that's rare, assault bot: a bot that's ingame, not rare or in a promo pack
so it makes sense for the azrael's borg to do damage when applying the debuff. to your buff.

hmmm
delta knight: a promotional rare, by ur logic, it should be stronger than any other non rare armor in the game at any level.

thats what ur saying right? that item rarity is more important than balance?
AQW Epic  Post #: 27
5/15/2013 17:52:19   
Ranloth
Banned


 Azrael's excuse to deal damage is not rarity but the fact debuffs are applied on an attack, unlike buffers which are casted upon yourself. If you take out the attack mechanism, both would be equal and the 1st turn advantage would be lower.
AQ Epic  Post #: 28
5/15/2013 19:33:07   
TRizZzCENTRINO
Member

quote:

hmmm
delta knight: a promotional rare, by ur logic, it should be stronger than any other non rare armor in the game at any level.

thats what ur saying right? that item rarity is more important than balance?

remember, it was made pre omega and delta knight did have more stats than any armor during its release, but now that every stat item has been made equal to others it doesn't have much of an advantage.
btw 60% damage is not even that much of an advantage, it is not game breaking, so yeah your points are invalid since you cannot compare an armor to a bot, promo bots like gammabot still have more of an advantage than any other bot ingame since it has a high base damage with repeatable dual type attacks. also for the point that trans stated, every debuff you see ingame deals damage to your enemies.

@trans yes i forgot to include that.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 29
5/15/2013 19:34:57   
goldslayer1
Member

@trizz
the point wasn't to compare armors to robots.

the point was you justified one robot being stronger than another because of its rarity.
AQW Epic  Post #: 30
5/15/2013 19:38:29   
TRizZzCENTRINO
Member

@above, it has some part to do with rarity, if it was made as a mirrored version of assault bot then they should just sell it ingame instead of putting it in a promo pack and making it cost tons of varium, it being a stronger version of assault bot with debuff instead of buff is what promotes people to buying it. it is called marketing strategies.

< Message edited by TRizZzCENTRINO -- 5/15/2013 19:39:31 >
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 31
5/15/2013 19:48:59   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

it is called marketing strategies.

it might be a marketing strategy but it makes the game pay to win.
isn't that why they got rid of the old enhancement system and closed "the gap"?
AQW Epic  Post #: 32
5/15/2013 20:01:19   
TRizZzCENTRINO
Member

quote:

it might be a marketing strategy but it makes the game pay to win.
isn't that why they got rid of the old enhancement system and closed "the gap"?

again you ignored other points made by trans and i, list one debuff ingame that doesn't deal damage.
they removed enhancements because it made epicduel an obvious pay2win game, it gave varium players too much of an advantage and deter many non varium players, the devs didn't want that to happen so they made it equal since varium players are saying that it gets boring everytime they face a credit player and defeats them.

also, 60% damage is nothing, not game breaking at all compared to other debuff skills that deals 85% damage or 100% damage.

< Message edited by TRizZzCENTRINO -- 5/15/2013 20:21:27 >
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 33
5/15/2013 20:21:52   
Mother1
Member

@ trizz

Even though I don't justify it it is that same 60% damage that everyone is justifying the assault bot get a buff and the azreal's borg doesn't. since that 60% damage does also give rage while the assault bot doesn't.

< Message edited by Mother1 -- 5/15/2013 20:22:20 >
Epic  Post #: 34
5/15/2013 20:22:58   
Ranloth
Banned


 No. Rarity nor promo =/= bonus power. Unique core at most. Before you say Azrael's Will - that one falls under advanced cores and one we have in-game are basic cores.

The only difference between Azrael's Borg and Assault Bot is the attack. The attack is there due to how debuffs work on enemy, therefore you must attack them hence why you deal damage. Debuffing yourself does NOT mean you're attacking yourself hence why no damage. You cannot say Azrael is better than Assault since you're comparing defensive mechanics to offensive one. Take out the offence on debuffs and both will be truly equal.
AQ Epic  Post #: 35
5/15/2013 20:24:29   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

also, 60% damage is nothing, not game breaking at all compared to other debuff skills that deals 85% damage or 100% damage.

60% damage is still better than 0% damage.

its not a debuff like smokescreen or malf, it reduces the effectiveness of buffs like technician and reflex. i wouldn't called that a "debuff"

also mother is pretty much on point aswell.
it gives rage, as opposed to assault bot which gives none.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 5/15/2013 20:25:33 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 36
5/15/2013 21:16:50   
TRizZzCENTRINO
Member

quote:

@ trizz

Even though I don't justify it it is that same 60% damage that everyone is justifying the assault bot get a buff and the azreal's borg doesn't. since that 60% damage does also give rage while the assault bot doesn't.

like trans stated, you cannot compare them since one is defensive and the other is offensive, just like how the buff skills and debuff skills work in our skill tree. so make that the opponent doesn't gain rage when they use the azrael's borg special if people are so stubborn on buffing assault bot or nerfing azrael's borg to be somewhat equal to assault bot. this isn't necessary, also coming from a person that doesn't have both bots.

quote:

60% damage is still better than 0% damage.

its not a debuff like smokescreen or malf, it reduces the effectiveness of buffs like technician and reflex. i wouldn't called that a "debuff"

also mother is pretty much on point aswell.
it gives rage, as opposed to assault bot which gives none.

so? that's how debuffs work

it is a weaker and different version of it and only works when someone buffs themselves, so yes it is a debuff because it reduces the effectiveness of the buff that the opponent has applied on themselves, same goes for assault bot but the effect is reversed.

like trans stated, you cannot compare them since one is defensive and the other is offensive, just like how the buff skills and debuff skills work in our skill tree.

< Message edited by TRizZzCENTRINO -- 5/15/2013 21:24:16 >
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 37
5/15/2013 21:25:07   
Ranloth
Banned


 Actually, my post was aimed at you and how you've compared rarity to power. <.<
AQ Epic  Post #: 38
5/15/2013 21:34:04   
TRizZzCENTRINO
Member

@trans you wouldn't know what the devs were thinking would you? ;) it is in a promo package so it is not just rarity, it is also a product that most people bought with $50 package.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 39
5/15/2013 21:42:43   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Just because a bot is rare in some sort of form, does not mean it should be stronger than other bots. I've been wondering for a long time why azrael's borg is considered "equal" to assault bots when it simply does damage AND, more importantly, gives rage to the user. Assault bot does not.
Epic  Post #: 40
5/15/2013 21:43:14   
Ranloth
Banned


 Yes. I would know. Last time I've heard, Varium was a shortcut, not a power boost.
AQ Epic  Post #: 41
5/15/2013 21:51:44   
Mother1
Member

@ exploding

These bots work like buffs and debuffs. Buffs are applied to one's self which is how the assault bot works, where as debuffs which are applied to the opponent is how the azreal's borg works.

But on another note, the only way that all bots would be equal is if they could do everything that all other bots could do and have equal damage and effect done which we all know isn't going to happen.
Epic  Post #: 42
5/15/2013 21:59:44   
TRizZzCENTRINO
Member

quote:

Yes. I would know. Last time I've heard, Varium was a shortcut, not a power boost.

there are always a few exceptions, but in a different form of power not just brutes, things will always change overtime like what they did with enhancements and made weapons equal to each other, the only thing that matters are the special attacks/skill cores. they did mention in the T&C that they will change things when necessary.

quote:

Just because a bot is rare in some sort of form, does not mean it should be stronger than other bots. I've been wondering for a long time why azrael's borg is considered "equal" to assault bots when it simply does damage AND, more importantly, gives rage to the user. Assault bot does not.

stronger but not over powered that it would make a huge difference, and like i said it is not just rarity but the fact that it is included in the promo package, they made it that way so it would serve as an incentive for more people to get the package.

not many people would get it if it is JUST a MIRRORED version of assault bot, plus it is just how the buff and debuff system works

< Message edited by TRizZzCENTRINO -- 5/15/2013 22:01:54 >
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 43
5/15/2013 22:06:50   
Ranloth
Banned
quote:

there are always a few exceptions

There should be no exceptions. Varium is a shortcut, not a power advantage. Azrael's Will is excused since we're comparing it to basic cores and the Will is.. not a basic core.
AQ Epic  Post #: 44
5/15/2013 22:14:30   
TRizZzCENTRINO
Member

@above would be a common core next year though ;) like i said, they are the devs and they would change things when necessary, yes varium is a shortcut but promo packages mean power advantages in different ways not just brute force kind of power, if you have varium in-game but not some promos then it would only serve as a shortcut since you cannot buy varium only promo items ingame anymore.

on-topic: assault bot can never be on par with azrael's borg since they are 2 completely different kind of bots, they work differently, assault bot is fine where it is now, buffing it would make debuffs useless, same goes for azrael's borg, there is no need to tamper with something that is balanced.

< Message edited by TRizZzCENTRINO -- 5/15/2013 22:20:21 >
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 45
5/15/2013 22:18:37   
Ranloth
Banned


 Common core or not, what does that have to do with it? It's still a core and Varium means shortcut, not power advantage. You cannot treat it as power advantage for a year only because paying players have it for a year and normal because more players can purchase it. The logic is quite flawed.
AQ Epic  Post #: 46
5/15/2013 22:24:08   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

you wouldn't know what the devs were thinking would you? ;)

and u would?
AQW Epic  Post #: 47
5/15/2013 22:25:22   
TRizZzCENTRINO
Member

@trans i didn't just direct my post at those, what if they made something that's a event only promo so it would go rare? i did agree with you that varium is only a shortcut, but it wasn't that way during delta phase, now in omega phase 10k package means power.

@goldslayer1 never said i would :P

< Message edited by TRizZzCENTRINO -- 5/15/2013 22:26:43 >
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 48
5/15/2013 22:25:52   
Stabilis
Member

When I buy varium I just expect quite a bit of potential to buy things- is that understandable? If I bought varium with the reality of achieving higher damage and defences then the strategies of the free-players would become less difficult and that would not be enjoyable! I clicked hard mode not easy mode!
AQ Epic  Post #: 49
5/15/2013 22:33:10   
TRizZzCENTRINO
Member

@depressed yes it is quite understandable, it all depends on how you see it, some cores ingame are better than the new armor in the 10k package, they cannot please everyone and there are people who thinks differently to you. they would want to achieve higher defences or damage. why not just make them put items with better art with no cores in the promo package? that would make you happy i guess

also, no-one is forcing you to get or use them, if you don't like them because they make your battles less challenging then don't use it

< Message edited by TRizZzCENTRINO -- 5/15/2013 22:35:36 >
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 50
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