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Fire Bolt Vs Plasma Bolt

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5/17/2013 5:02:22   
ValkyrieKnight
Member

Both first level skills for the mages, but since the recent debuffing of firebolt its become almost usable, look at these comparisons.

Plasma Bolt

Level 32

154 Technology
Plasma Bolt Max damage is 86


Fire Bolt

Level 35

160 Strength
FireBolt Max damage is 77

I forget if Plasma Bolts damage would scale up to 89 or not but it's clearly visible how superior Plasma Bolt is to Fire Bolt, either all the strength based techniques have been been nerfed far too much into the ground or.... Tech is too powerful. A BM can't even base a build on fire Bolt, your defense would be way too low. However Its easy to build a build around Plasma, high def and high damage.

Where are all the BMs at anyway?

Strength and Hp have been too much of the focus on this game that I see NO one building builds around these stats, its impossible.
AQW Epic  Post #: 1
5/17/2013 5:17:36   
goldslayer1
Member

the excuse for nerfing fireball compared to plasma bolt, was that bloodmage had bloodlust which would make it regain health when used.

however they are 2 completely different skills (fireball and bloodlust) with their own requirements and skill points added to them.
so i think its unfair to nerf 1 move over another based on that class having a different skill.
AQW Epic  Post #: 2
5/17/2013 8:01:53   
Ranloth
Banned


 Fireball has 'Str/4' whilst Plasma Bolt has 'Tech/3'. Put Bolt on '/4' to fix it, since giving Fireball the old scaling of 'Str/3' would overpower them, even after the Strength nerf. You could always give it 29 EP cost instead of 31 EP to make it more viable option for cheaper price, and it's a buff as well - you either get higher EP cost and more power or lower EP cost but less power (existing one).
AQ Epic  Post #: 3
5/17/2013 8:23:25   
Xendran
Member

Why bandaid fix?
Fix the problem of stats being so crazy and all over the place and all of a sudden these two skills don't need to be different at all other than damage type and art.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 4
5/17/2013 21:07:13   
ValkyrieKnight
Member

Even if Fireball works with BloodLust, for the most part you're only going to be able to use it once ( unless you put all your armor points into resistance for generate ) and making it strong will be at a huge cost to defense. Plasma bolt however, the reason its so broken now is because you can be a mega tank while having the extreme damage of low leveled Plasma and Super Charge, these two skills are clearly on different levels.
AQW Epic  Post #: 5
5/17/2013 21:20:26   
Mother1
Member

They aren't going to put it back to scaling with 4 tech because if they did that, it would be completely reversing a buff they did back in mid to late delta. While that would be the fix it would need to make it balanced with Fireball Epic duel has a history of never reversing the buffs they make even if that would be the best solution.

@ goldslayer1

They nerfed fireball because strength build mage was moping the floor with the mass majority of builds ever since Tactical merc lost it smoke. Last I remember the forums were full of hate for strength blood mage since more then half of the mage community was using this build to beat the stuffing out of everyone else who wasn't this build. But before they did this nerf they took berzerker away from BM and replaced it with bludgeon in an attempt to stop Strength BM and failed.
Epic  Post #: 6
5/17/2013 21:23:52   
Ranloth
Banned
quote:

They aren't going to put it back to scaling with 4 tech because if they did that, it would be completely reversing a buff they did back in mid to late delta.

Buff in Delta was +8 (or +9) damage (fixed) rather than the scaling adjustment. It wouldn't be reversing the buff if it's still there. At normal Tech, you'd still deal more damage with 'Tech/4' + the Delta's boost than prior to the buff and 'Tech/3'. When it reaches around 80-100 Tech, that's when you'll deal slightly less damage.
AQ Epic  Post #: 7
5/17/2013 21:25:05   
kittycat
Member

Reversing buffs isn't such a great idea, but the Devs can reduce the base damage by 15% for Plasma Bolt. I.e. if at 101 Tech, Level 5, You deal 66 damage max, you only deal 57. If you deal 80 damage max, you deal 68 damage max instead. It will keep Plasma Bolt more closer to fireball, but without the need to reverse the buff intended in the past.
AQ MQ  Post #: 8
5/17/2013 21:30:04   
Mother1
Member

@ trans

Did you see the numbers in the original post? if they put it back to the way it was those two would be equals in power (power wise)

@ Kittycat

The scaling of stats is far different now then it was in delta. If they would actually undo the buff now it wouldn't hurt the lower levels like it did in delta. Especially with the stat freedom we have now they can make a build and not have such an OP Plasma bolt that can be used to two turn certain build or even 1 hit KO some.
Epic  Post #: 9
5/17/2013 21:34:30   
ValkyrieKnight
Member

The developers seem to enjoy nerfing down everything, when was anything nerfed up? Strength has been downgraded so much that I don't see anyone of anyclass using strength / hp based builds. Sure I'll see a Str bounty hunter or two do it because they have smoke but they're not difficult to beat at all.

As it stands firebolt is completely useless and when trying to upgrade it I found that just to make it have some use you have to sacrifice a ton of points in doing so.

With all the super cheap tech builds out there going mainly strength doesn't give you much of an advantage, especially with all the Azreals lurking around preventing you from trying to shield your bad defense.

< Message edited by ValkyrieKnight -- 5/17/2013 21:36:08 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 10
5/17/2013 21:41:11   
Mother1
Member

@ valkyrie

This was in delta when they were making these buffs to the classes instead of nerfs. But scaling while fireball scales faster then any other strength move since all other moves are affected by the diminishing returns (since every other strength move needs 4.5 strength Min until the bar for the returns rise) however since this move doesn't add X % more like all other strength moves it isn't as strong as it used to be.
Epic  Post #: 11
5/17/2013 22:09:33   
ValkyrieKnight
Member

@ Mother

quote:

The developers seem to enjoy nerfing down everything, when was anything nerfed up? Strength has been downgraded so much that I don't see anyone of anyclass using strength / hp based builds.


I hear ya Mother.

Edit : I think all strength based moves have been downgraded too much, not just fireball, I don't see anyone basing builds on massacre anymore, no berzeker, no nothing.

< Message edited by ValkyrieKnight -- 5/17/2013 22:11:59 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 12
5/17/2013 22:14:52   
hijinks
Member

Plasma Bolt needs a nerf, because when I have about 20+ Energy Shield points on a 23-28 +5 resistance, TMs with high tech STILL get lots of damage with Plasma Bolt on me.
DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 13
5/18/2013 1:48:48   
toopygoo
Member

they are capable of dealing 75 damage with a level 1 skill.
it costs 13 energy
thats really all you need to win
use it once, big heal, use it again on rage, and you can win.. people made this more efficient now, but thats more or less the idea
AQW Epic  Post #: 14
5/18/2013 2:03:02   
Xendran
Member

quote:

people made this more efficient now,


Whoops
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 15
5/18/2013 2:14:24   
RageSoul
Member

quote:

But before they did this nerf they took berzerker away from BM and replaced it with bludgeon in an attempt to stop Strength BM and failed.

OFC they failed because it's not really Zerk that caused it , it's just that burst damage was superior all thanks to Stat Diminishing .

EDIT : fixed grammar

< Message edited by RageSoul -- 5/18/2013 2:16:40 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 16
5/18/2013 2:29:48   
ValkyrieKnight
Member

Made a opsie, misread a post.

< Message edited by ValkyrieKnight -- 5/18/2013 18:17:29 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 17
5/18/2013 14:26:56   
Kd
Member

There is quite clearly a problem here. Let's not look at the fireball versus plasma bolt as a comparison but at plasma bolt and the caster build. Essentially we have a build that is a tank- defenses are 30+ with the +10 armor in defense and resistance is 35+ with the tech stat abuse, that can easily acquire energy-reroute+an unblockable assimilation which not only gains energy, but steals it, and a skill which at level 3 only costs 17 energy, can deal 70+ damage, only has a 2 turn cool down, has no warm-up, and can't be blocked or deflected. I mean seriously, looking at the plasma bolt alone (level 3-17 energy, 70+ damage, 2 turn cool down, no warm up, not blockable/deflectable) if this doesn't look like a problem then tell me, what is?
Epic  Post #: 18
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