Home  | Login  | Register  | Help  | Play 

Why NPC wins are good for the game

  		Logged in as: Guest
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Artix Entertainment Games] >> [EpicDuel] >> EpicDuel General Discussion >> Why NPC wins are good for the game
Page 1 of 512345>
Forum Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
5/19/2013 5:15:58   
Xendran
Member


UPDATE:

What i think should happen regarding win ratios

Your rank icon should be pushed a bit to the right, and a new category beside losses called "Win Ratio" should be added. It would just show your % win ratio.
Below Juggernaut wins is NPC wins.
This way you can keep your wins counting towards your ranks, but also have your true pvp win ratio displayed.

----------

This is a rational look at how NPC battles counting has a positive impact on the game.
I used to be against NPC wins, however for EpicDuel specifically, it is a good thing.


Goals and Rewards
NPC wins allows for a consistent way to gain wins, and set goals for yourself. When players aim for stretch goals, they can be sure that they will be getting at least 15 wins an hour, and plan out how long it will take.
It makes the goal attainable without having to deal with luck. EpicDuels battle system is simply not balanced enough to make people want to drag on in only pvp.

Competition
Players find the leaderboards more competetive with NPC wins. With PVP only wins you must have an extremely good build and the best gear in the game (often promo items that cannot be obtained) to compete properly.
Adding NPC wins ups the ante by allowing all players a predictable 15 battles per hour. If you're on LB, you have to push hard to keep a position, because everybody is getting those 15 wins, instead of just people with specific builds and gear getting fast wins.
This brings in more competition, and more players participating in the competition.
This also allows factions without all-star lineups with all BIS gear and OP Build of the Month to have a shot at being competetive with the crazy 24/7 factions. They won't pass them consistently, but it would allow for more competetive dailies.


Character Attachment
Due to the ability to compete, more players will be going for daily 1v1/2v2 achievements. This adds a level of attachment to your character, as well as being a reward, which is how you get people addicted to a game.
Having a higher number of wins and a higher (although artificially inflated) win rate will increase this level of attachment. This ensures that those players who compete keep competing and keep playing. The longer the play, the more likely they are to buy promo packs.
The factions being more competetive also makes you more attached to both your character, your faction (as an in game mechanic), and your faction members.

< Message edited by Xendran -- 5/20/2013 7:37:30 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 1
5/19/2013 5:37:06   
RageSoul
Member

In every game , it's always good , especially in ED . Maybe this should be placed in the Devs' reminders and stuff , because it's definitely true .
AQW Epic  Post #: 2
5/19/2013 5:39:00   
Xendran
Member

Yeah, the devs removed them to try to make the game more competetive. In reality, it actually made the game less competetive.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 3
5/19/2013 5:55:01   
RageSoul
Member

The thing is , forcing people to go PvP most of the time makes the game , well , too ... bland , hence competition is just as screwed as ED's balance.
AQW Epic  Post #: 4
5/19/2013 6:02:34   
..Jasmine..
Member

On NPC part, I can both support and not support,as some players only intend to keep their ratio as best it can but it is completely on oneself whether to do NPCing or not. And also considering how strong these NPCs after the Omega I can totally say enabling NPC wins to record will bring some old players back and also some more competition in Epicduel.
Epic  Post #: 5
5/19/2013 6:27:26   
Thylek Shran
Member

Its good that you bring NPC wins up Xendran. Personally I never cared about the leaderboards because im not a hardcore player.
I think im to old for such stuff now but I was a hardcore player when I was below 25 years.

NPCs with better rewards than now are a must be in ED because of lacking game and class balance.
NPCs can compensate alot of these problems and its a fact that alot players left ED because of bad NPC rewards
and being forced to do PVP during events (Egg Hunt, Spore Hunt) if the want to get the good rewards.
Instead of doing forced PVP those players just quit ED or are waiting for a change.

I think its good that NPCs no longer count for the win/loss ratio but just this small credit reward is ridiculous.
NPCs should also reward influence and more credits. We have a NPC limit of 100 now so that should not be a problem.
However I disagree that NPCs are are a sure win because it depends on which NPCs you challenge. Titan as example
is pretty challenging for level 35s and fun for bacon farming.


< Message edited by Thylek Shran -- 5/19/2013 6:32:51 >

_____________________________


v.35.3 (2016-01-23) ~ beam.to/shran
DF Epic  Post #: 6
5/19/2013 6:52:53   
Necromantres
Member

quote:

Titan as example
is pretty challenging for level 35s and fun for bacon farming.


Nightwrath isn't to easy either...With the same build i defeated George Lowe but losed with Nightwrath
Epic  Post #: 7
5/19/2013 7:31:03   
goldslayer1
Member

i have to agree
one of my friends Deathnightmare is pretty much semi-quitting not playing like before, because of the removal of NPCs, and the current balance.

many other players are quitting because of this change aswell.
this include varium players.

while it may inflate the winrates, for some people it gives them more sense of achievement thus getting more attached to the game.

for me NPC wins were a good way of escaping any balance problems.
or being able to quickly play some wins when im in a rush somewhere.

some will argue that NPCs are too easy, well i have a challenge for u.
beat these 3 NPCs as ur regular 15 NPCs battles
Titan
Slayer
Nightwraith
5 battles each.
then come back and tell me if they were "free wins"


i also think they should add NPCs for Team and juggernaut aswell (5 hourly)
if theres a mode that needs it right now, its gotta be 2 vs 2. with all the disconnections, bad partners, afk partners and bad balance it must be a pain to play team mode.

i also think NPC wins would make for a more active ED.
players logged on at reset and then every hour to do their NPCs.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 5/19/2013 7:33:10 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 8
5/19/2013 7:41:55   
Oba
Member

NPC wins should never have been counting toward the 1v1 battle record. However, NPCs should have a bigger use in the game - more exp and credits.

quote:

some will argue that NPCs are too easy, well i have a challenge for u.
beat these 3 NPCs as ur regular 15 NPCs battles
Titan
Slayer
Nightwraith
5 battles each.
then come back and tell me if they were "free wins"


These are bosses that you bring up, and I can hardly remember the last time wins against bosses counted toward the battle record. Tell me how hard it is to beat "normal" NPCs, such as the Mechachillids, instead. Players clearly abused their opportunity to battle against NPCs to earn "free wins". And as a player which never really NPC'd, I like the way it is now, but with greater rewards for beating them.


< Message edited by Oba -- 5/19/2013 7:46:01 >
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 9
5/19/2013 7:45:35   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

These are bosses that you bring up, and I can hardly remember the last time wins against bosses counted toward the battle record. Tell me how hard it is to beat "normal" NPCs, such as the Mechachillids, instead. Players clearly abused their opportunity to battle against NPCs to earn "free wins" and I for one like the way it is now, but with greater rewards for beating them.

these are not "bosses"
back in delta u could get wins and losses from these NPCs, and they weren't easy thats why u didn't see people farming them regularly.

i think "abuse" is the wrong word to use when the developers put this in their game.
mechachillid is only as easy any other level 30 player in the game is.

players only challenged NPCs 5 levels lower. so of course it would be easy.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 5/19/2013 7:47:22 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 10
5/19/2013 7:49:52   
Xendran
Member

quote:

NPC wins should never have been counting toward the 1v1 battle record.


Everything said in my first post indicates that it is actually better for the game's well being. Do you have any counter to it, or is it simply because you don't like it, and would rather keep it out even if the game suffers because of it?

quote:

These are bosses that you bring up,


Minibosses at best. Regular NPCs should all be around the power of titan, because titan is around the power of an average player.
Titan should have a hard mode and a true mode added, because titan is the big boss in the ED universe.
Hard mode should be obscenely hard, harder than any boss that has ever been in the game. Potentially even made to be impossible until the level cap goes up.
True mode would just be him hitting 2,147,483,647 damage on you first turn with supercharge. Unless the damage cap is 65535 and not 2.147b.

< Message edited by Xendran -- 5/19/2013 7:53:25 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 11
5/19/2013 7:55:24   
Oba
Member

quote:

these are not "bosses"


?
Yes they are. You get a achievement for beating them up and they are much tougher than normal NPCs, and back in beta it used to cost 5 tokens to challenge Titan and NW, as it did with all bosses back then.

quote:

back in delta u could get wins and losses from these NPCs


Possible, I have honestly no idea.

quote:

mechachillid is only as easy any other level 30 player in the game is.

players only challenged NPCs 5 levels lower. so of course it would be easy.


Yea, Mechachillid is as easy as level 30 players, however, in PvP you dont often encounter level 30 players when you are level 35. But you can challenge the level 30 NPCs and get "free wins as many times as you want as long you are willing to pay. So I do not think that level 30 NPCs should count toward a level 35 players battle record. players only challenged NPCs 5 levels lower. so of course it would be easy. - And this is why I do not think NPC battles should count in the battle record, you said it yourself, its obviously to easy.

quote:

Minibosses at best. Regular NPCs should all be around the power of titan, because titan is around the power of an average player.


You honestly think that Nightwraith is a "miniboss"? I know you are a beta player, and I can bet that as a level 30 player you had alot of troubles against him. Titan and NW are still level 30, do you honestly expect that you still, 5 levels higher, wouldnt be able to beat them? And as goldy said; "back in delta u could get wins and losses from these NPCs, and they weren't easy thats why u didn't see people farming them regularly. ", we dont see players battle them as often as they are bosses and tougher.

< Message edited by Oba -- 5/19/2013 8:00:22 >
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 12
5/19/2013 7:59:25   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

?
Yes they are. You get a achievement for beating them up and they are much tougher than normal NPCs, and back in beta it used to cost 5 tokens to challenge Titan and NW, as it did with all bosses back then.

the NPC giving an achievement does not qualify him as a "boss"
i remember i used to NPC caden back when i had super charge dex mage.

u forget that these were the high level NPCs of beta and gamma. (but then everyone just challenge the shadow guards back then)

quote:

Titan and NW are still level 30,

they are level 35. didn't u read the wiki link i provided?

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 5/19/2013 8:00:24 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 13
5/19/2013 7:59:34   
Mother1
Member

quote:

these are not "bosses"
back in delta u could get wins and losses from these NPCs, and they weren't easy thats why u didn't see people farming them regularly.


Where you there for the ebilcorp war back when all NPC were bugged? I went there a few times where the level 30 mechachild was and the lag there was so bad it wasn't even funny. In other words people were farming the crap out of that NPC. Also the LB in 1 vs 1 were packed with the top 15 people having 900+ wins for several days because of this. So people were farming NPC back then and this is one of the more highlighted moments.

Also if people weren't farming NPC now they would have never limited NPC rewards to 100 a match to discourage NPC farming.
Epic  Post #: 14
5/19/2013 8:01:56   
goldslayer1
Member

@mother1
thats a bug, a developer's fault.
i was not here for that event but if its a bug, i cant really hold players accountable for the dev's mistake.

quote:

we dont see players battle them as often as they are bosses and tougher.

if they are "bosses" why do they have a level instead of the "BOSS" sign on the bubble next to their name?

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 5/19/2013 8:03:01 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 15
5/19/2013 8:03:56   
Xendran
Member

Arguing over whether or not something is a "boss" is simply a method to derail the thread.
Whether or not something is CALLED a boss doesn't mean anything whatsoever.

NPCs giving wins brings all the advantages i listed.
NPCs are discouraged because of how easy and fast they are.
Titan is around the power level of a player and is a decent challenge for an NPC, but still has that reliability if you make a good build for it.
Solution: Buff all NPCs* up to power of titan, buff all bosses that are the same power to the level of current-age bosses.


Arguing over terminology in this case is totally irelevant and should be considered as spam.
It's not about what they're called, it's about how hard they are to kill.


*all NPCs is referring to a scaling. Level 35 (NOT 30) NPCs should be brought up to the power of Titan. All npcs of other levels should be scaled using this as a base.

< Message edited by Xendran -- 5/19/2013 8:07:59 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 16
5/19/2013 8:08:01   
goldslayer1
Member

@xendran
about the bosses (G.lowe, armored hazard, etc))
what if their difficulty depended on the players level?
meaning if your level rises, their difficulty rises with it.

allowing a level 20 player just as much difficulty to fight armored hazard as level 35 players.
this is a bit easier on the devs so they dont have to constantly release new NPCs for every level range.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 5/19/2013 8:09:01 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 17
5/19/2013 8:08:40   
Oba
Member

quote:

the NPC giving an achievement does not qualify him as a "boss"



Alright, I was talking from my own exprience before, and they used to be branded "bosses" however I just checked in-game and it actually says level 35 now beside their names, instead of "BOSS". Still wouldnt brand them as "regular NPCs".

quote:

thats a bug, a developer's fault.
i was not here for that event but if its a bug, i cant really hold players accountable for the dev's mistake.


It was a known bug and the players abused it, which is against most rules in games. Take Diablo 3 for example, they just recently had a bug in the auction house to get x10 gold from sold gear. Once Blizzard fixed the bug did the players who had abused the bug - lose all their gold (included what they had before they abused the bug) and if they had abused it alot, they got their battle.net accounts permanently banned.

quote:

Solution: Buff all NPCs* up to power of titan, buff all bosses that are the same power to the level of current-age bosses.


If this happens, and players would only be able to battle NPCs at their own level and above, I could agree that brining back NPC wins toward the battle record is a good idea, but as it is now its just easy wins and I for one do not think that will improve the game whatsoever. After all, its called a Player Vs Player game.

< Message edited by Oba -- 5/19/2013 8:13:28 >
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 18
5/19/2013 8:09:02   
Xendran
Member

@goldslayer1: There's no way to do that properly because of how much the synergies between skills is diminished at lower levels.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 19
5/19/2013 8:13:24   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

It was a known bug and the players abused it

thats a completely different issues though.
my view on this is that if the developers did a mistake, its their fault. they shouldn't be punishing players for something they put in the game, whether it was deliberate or accidental.

this is why it would be stupid to punish players for something u put in the game.

@xendran
yeah figured so.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 5/19/2013 13:05:18 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 20
5/19/2013 8:20:28   
Stabilis
Member

Although, NPC wins in many ways contrast to player wins. NPC wins should have a separate battle record: NPC 1V1, NPC 2V2, NPC 2V1, etc. NPCs defile leaderboard standings when NPC battles are: predictive (unchanging build and style), static (AI brain), low-statted (low defences, high health, standard damage). NPC wins are free the moment you understand them (which is not time-consuming as they are predictive).

Now I have no problem with NPCs, they make a great addition as a substitute for PVP especially where credits, EXP, battle tokens are concerned... but NPC wins are not equivocal to player wins.

Oh, and the 100 battle limit per day I also agree was not needed.
AQ Epic  Post #: 21
5/19/2013 8:20:43   
Xendran
Member

quote:

they shouldn't be punishing players for something they put in the game,


If it's unintentional, you should. Glitch abuse is blatantly against ToS.
If it's an oversight in the actual design (lets say you can buy an item and sell it for more than you bought it for in a completely legitimate way) then there shouldn't be any punishment, only a fix.

quote:

NPCs defile leaderboard standings


Thing is, this doesn't matter anymore. The 1v1 leaderboard has already been trashed and it's unfixable without making a new one, or upgrading the current one to be able to distinguish between pvp wins in your battle record and npc wins in your battle record, so at this point who cares whether or not we defile it some more.

< Message edited by Xendran -- 5/19/2013 8:23:12 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 22
5/19/2013 8:26:09   
Stabilis
Member

^

When you say 1V1 unfixable are you referring to the all-time or the all-time and the daily?
AQ Epic  Post #: 23
5/19/2013 8:30:10   
Xendran
Member

Just all-time.
For daily though, the reasons stated in the OP are in favor of NPC wins in daily as well however.

The idea they probably has was that people wouldn't take the leaderboards or dailies seriously if NPC wins stayed in.
Funnily enough, people actually take them less seriously now that they're gone.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 24
5/19/2013 10:02:38   
Smackie El Frog
Member

When have the forums ever been able to appeal one of the developers game changes outside of balance?

That's what I thought. They took it away because they deemed it so. Nuff said.


_____________________________
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 25
Page:   [1] 2 3 4 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Artix Entertainment Games] >> [EpicDuel] >> EpicDuel General Discussion >> Why NPC wins are good for the game
Page 1 of 512345>
Jump to:






Icon Legend
New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Forum Content Copyright © 2018 Artix Entertainment, LLC.

"AdventureQuest", "DragonFable", "MechQuest", "EpicDuel", "BattleOn.com", "AdventureQuest Worlds", "Artix Entertainment"
and all game character names are either trademarks or registered trademarks of Artix Entertainment, LLC. All rights are reserved.
PRIVACY POLICY


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition