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RE: Lack of dev interaction

 
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6/12/2013 10:37:05   
Q...Q
Member
 

Well its the source of the problems thay ED has.

Lol x4
DF Epic  Post #: 26
6/12/2013 10:37:45   
Khalix
Member

Don't you love how someone who loses an argument calls it "Meh", laughs at everything so far and throws the towel?

Regardless, this would be a nice observation to shove into one of my mindset threads.
Epic  Post #: 27
6/12/2013 10:45:57   
Q...Q
Member
 

I could argue much more, but i has to go to work.
DF Epic  Post #: 28
6/12/2013 10:46:03   
  Charfade
Member

Regarding balance, Rabble is always testing, figuring things out with the testers on the dev server. There is more then just player recommendations that have to account into for balance. While I dont know them specifically because I dont deal with balance at all. ( they keep my dyslexic butt away from the calculator as much as possible XD ) I do know its still always actively being worked on.

Now in terms of MORE interaction from the dev team, I'll be honest, we dont have a huge team like the other AE games. There are only 4 people working full time on the game and a only a handful of mods and testers we can trust currently. Coming to the forums is not our top priority atm because we just do not have the time. Especially with the war developments. I said over and over that Twitter is your best bet to get your questions answered. Because its much more efficient then the forum.

Also I should let you know that "Demanding" us to react with forum posts will not get us to react any faster then we would do so normally. We balance developing EpicDuel and PR all at once. Sometimes we have more time for one or the other. But it doesn't ever mean we dont care or we are not listening to you.



MQ Epic  Post #: 29
6/12/2013 12:09:06   
The Incredible Hulk
Banned

 

quote:

For the past few weeks, devs have had near zero interaction with the player base.

Barely any sneak peeks, videos. Nothing at all.



I believe that this is one of the reasons for ED's demise.


What about you?


I don't really care if there are sneak peaks or videos or nothing at all.
I hardly watch it and I hardly go on the devs twitter (rarely I do).

Most people go on it for free prize codes but I don't really care about that.

< Message edited by The Incredible Hulk -- 6/12/2013 12:19:03 >
Epic  Post #: 30
6/12/2013 14:32:11   
Drianx
Member

@Charfade

You know what another big difference there is between ED staff and AQW staff?
AQW staff which usually post design notes or in the forums are 1. very positive in everything they say and 2. always thankful towards players.

Whereas ED staff is 1. mostly posting either cold announcements or excuses (we do/don't do this because... or because...) and 2. more like 'suck it up and shut up' towards players.

And before coming with the busy excuse, take a look at Alina and Cysero - they are managing a popular and complex game that is updated at least twice a week and which has multiple development projects running at the same time, yet they find time to post A LOT on twitter, daily (even multiple times a day) design notes, and sometimes even on forums. Do they work like 40 hours a day? No. But you can feel the passion in every post they make, unlike ED staff who somehow seems to be afraid even to post something.

Just my opinion, you can disregard it, I am used to that already.
AQW Epic  Post #: 31
6/12/2013 14:46:42   
The Incredible Hulk
Banned

 

^^

That's very true. I don't see much passion within the ED team.

It just feels like the devs are on another miserable sunny day doing work that they don't even enjoy.


The only one I see with passion is Practel (No offense)

< Message edited by The Incredible Hulk -- 6/12/2013 14:47:40 >
Epic  Post #: 32
6/12/2013 14:58:05   
  Charfade
Member

I should mention AQW's Alina and Cysero have a lot of helpers. Where as we dont get the help like they do. Sometimes we get to steal baleen for write ups, but other then that we are pretty much on our own. Cindy has gone back to focusing on her career which leaves just NW and I to do most of the PR and marketing, along side with fixing bugs, art, choreographing mods/testers etc.

I do apologize if you feel we are doing cold announcements. We definitely dont want you to feel that way. We are really excited for the Dread War here at the Lab. NW is working on a DN's post for today that will give you lots of new tid bits for the upcoming war. ^^

MQ Epic  Post #: 33
6/12/2013 15:10:14   
DunkThatOreo
Member

Is anyone else just tired of hearing excuse after excuse?
Epic  Post #: 34
6/12/2013 15:24:13   
  Charfade
Member

quote:

Is anyone else just tired of hearing excuse after excuse?


Well its not my intent to fill you up with "excuses". I just wanted to come on here to explain and answer some questions.

MQ Epic  Post #: 35
6/12/2013 15:32:33   
The Incredible Hulk
Banned

 


quote:

Is anyone else just tired of hearing excuse after excuse?



Nope, Most of the ED people are still young and I especially wouldn't pick on Charfade. Charfade has been helpful most of the time replying to our comments which I really appreciate but I never see NW or Titan replying. Titan looks so young and he hardly replies to the forum? Strange.




Charfade, you have been the most helpful replying to questions which I greatly appreciate.
If I have the chance to help you guys when I'm a bit older, I'll try help (18+ i think you need to be). Those days I will be much maturer ;D. And i might even know some coding at the back of my sleeve. Got A* for computing ;D (coursework, 40/45) and an A for exams (34/40). In english terms not USA. it's like saying A+ in your country I think and A- I think.

Well done Charfade. *Fireworks saying ''Well done charfade''*
Epic  Post #: 36
6/12/2013 15:47:17   
  Charfade
Member

XD daw thanks Halk, You have no idea how I appreciate your comment. <3 We definitely always want to help/encourage/inspire our players in anyway we can. If your still around I hope to one day work with you ^^

As for Titan and NW, they are really supper focused for most of the day where as I sometimes have down time waiting on a response or reply from someone. Its just a difference in our responsibility currently. *looks over computer monitor at other Dev team* yep supper focused! you could hear a pin drop! XD
MQ Epic  Post #: 37
6/12/2013 15:52:21   
Ranloth
Banned


I'm not defending Devs since they do have flaws (quite a few examples in the past + few mentioned in these "decline" threads), but telling someone to stop making up excuses and wanting Devs to interact more is a bit contradicting. First you ask them to interact more and when they do, you're sick of hearing what they have to say which is still interacting. Oh boy.

Yes, Devs should interact more. Yes, they do have flaws. Yes, they do make excuses. But did you consider the fact they are still human and a small Team? Give it a bigger Team (inb4 recruit someone), then interacting on Forum/DNs will be much faster + more Twitter, everyone has flaws so that's pretty normal, and excuses will always happen because things in life don't go the way you want. Perhaps ED has made a bit too many, you have to realise the team is pitifully small and they are human.
AQ Epic  Post #: 38
6/12/2013 15:54:18   
toopygoo
Member

Hey Charfade, you said that the vids were voluntarily made and stuff. Although i am busy with school (exams are next week) this weekend i can spare some time, and help record if you have anyone else willing, and some kind of script for us to follow, or a checklist of things to demonstrate. I'm super excited for this update, so really i just want to know a little more about it, how its going, what the changes will be etc... feel free to send me a PM, if i can help in any way.
AQW Epic  Post #: 39
6/12/2013 16:00:47   
The Incredible Hulk
Banned

 

@ charfade

No problem.
I hope Titan is enjoying his coding (Sometimes you have to be bored of it which i don;t mind) while having a bacon sandwich.

And I hope to stay around when I'm older and see if you guys need help for coding some stuff or fixing any bug issues. Coding is my specialty.

< Message edited by The Incredible Hulk -- 6/12/2013 16:03:42 >
Epic  Post #: 40
6/12/2013 16:25:53   
Bloodpact
Member

Toopy, Trans, and Hulk beat me to the punch lines here. D:

I'll just add:

Legit people(most everyone else), why you so negative?(I mean I'm pestimistic) ,but you guys wo
I donno how many times one of us had to jump on here and lay it down to caveman style,
we repeat again and again.....

"They are a small team,humans," and it's not like they have as much room to
not only please all of you extremely high demanding children, but also balance
everything while telling you every little detail of the progress.

I too wish they would show us more attention, but atm we have throw so much
at them I expect them to be busy busy busy. + all the givens ( War + Active -->Passive Update )
[Two big projects.]

Have anyone except hulk coded before? Do you have any idea how long and boring it
is too code? I do I bloody hated coding, it's like writing an essay in numbers + letters.

_____________________________

Yay War and Pestilence for everyone !

Death is in the air :] ..............
Epic  Post #: 41
6/12/2013 16:36:48   
Drianx
Member

quote:

I'm not defending Devs since they do have flaws (quite a few examples in the past + few mentioned in these "decline" threads), but telling someone to stop making up excuses and wanting Devs to interact more is a bit contradicting. First you ask them to interact more and when they do, you're sick of hearing what they have to say which is still interacting. Oh boy.

Quality of interaction and quantity of interaction are two different things.
AQW Epic  Post #: 42
6/12/2013 16:39:35   
The Incredible Hulk
Banned

 

^^

Also chars, boolean,integers (I could keep going on ;p) for example.......................................

Also If statements and many others

< Message edited by The Incredible Hulk -- 6/12/2013 16:43:15 >
Epic  Post #: 43
6/12/2013 16:41:08   
toopygoo
Member

@ blood

the ending of your post reminded me of of a joke i heard back in grade 9, when algebra was first taken seriously:

dear math,

you numbers were just complicated enough before you started hooking up with the alphabet. please. go back.

sincerely, math students...
looking back, i wish algebra was all we got. heck, id be happy with just functions and polynomials, and trig. There is only one thing i have more than trig, and its logs xD

anyways, i hoped to lighten the mood with that. they are having an update on their progress today, or tomorrow, so i cant wait. im gonna buy this promo pack, and im super pumped :D
AQW Epic  Post #: 44
6/12/2013 16:43:24   
Q...Q
Member
 

@Bloodpact.

If titan cant do the job alone, what are they waiting for to hire someone else?
Trans said AE make millions, well they can pay a new dev to help Titan...? Imo.

< Message edited by Q...Q -- 6/12/2013 16:44:34 >
DF Epic  Post #: 45
6/12/2013 16:44:21   
The Incredible Hulk
Banned

 

^^

And that is rabble..... TO the froth (Heard that from a video xD)

Also I think Lycus helps abit and practel.

< Message edited by The Incredible Hulk -- 6/12/2013 16:46:28 >
Epic  Post #: 46
6/12/2013 16:47:06   
Q...Q
Member
 

Well they have 2 devs and they have no time at all right now
Hire a third one, more ideas ,more work , faster exicutions of the coding bigger updates with better balance...?
Oh wait im prolly dreaming

I think pracrel and the other dude are just testers

< Message edited by Q...Q -- 6/12/2013 16:48:26 >
DF Epic  Post #: 47
6/12/2013 16:48:06   
toopygoo
Member

they are a part of many different organizations, so they dont get to kep all of that money. some of it goes to maintianing servers, some of it goes to AE corp, some of it goes to "ultimate gamecard" to keep their shares in place. they have so many partnerships and stuff that it really gets diluted to down to a fairly generous amount, that they seem fit as is. hiring someone else, would mean re-evaluating their wages. not dipping into their funds.
AQW Epic  Post #: 48
6/12/2013 16:48:53   
Bloodpact
Member

@QQ

A)Those were theoretical numbers.

B) That was AE as a whole, not the Epicduel department, I'm sure the more a certain
game brings in the better of a budget they receive.
b)sub) If you haven't noticed Epicduel has made it easier then ever to get
by without paying varium, tho it's is less efficient to do so.(a lot less)

C) He already put in a "inB4" about hiring a new member.

< Message edited by Bloodpact -- 6/12/2013 16:51:07 >
Epic  Post #: 49
6/12/2013 17:34:04   
Lycus
Legendary AdventureGuide!


Another thing to remember is that the Developers have a job, as has been mentioned, to create and run the game, that is their position. It is great for them all to interact, whether it be on the forums, Twitter or the Design Notes, with you guys, however their main priority is to make the releases for you all to enjoy! Still, as you see, Charfade and Rabblefroth are particularly active on the forums here, and all the Devs post rather actively on Twitter, as Charfade said, it is much faster and easier to post on!

The Moderators are there to help out in-game and be active around there, most Testers/Moderators are at least active in looking over the forums and the AK's do feedback, especially since quite a few AK's are Mods/Testers. It is part of their position to help reply to you and pass on things, helping to liaise between you and the team, allowing you to get responses and the team to get the feedback while they can still concentrate on developing.

At the same time, some times just because they do not comment, does not mean they are not looking. There are a lot of topics on this forum, however there are a lot of times where I know I look at some of them, I know the developers do to and they could be great topics, but it is not exactly somewhere something of value could be input by us. Therefore, we take it in, but cannot exactly reply since there just is not something of use we can say. Sometimes they do post and what they say is split up into little bits and they're eaten alive, which at times can be unfair and can discourage any more posts in that session on the forum. Again, any non-constructive and quite aggressive topics also do not make people want to post replies. These are just a few reasons, they may sound like excuses, however I am simply giving a few suggestions as to why there may not always be loads of responses by Developers and also to say how some of the In-Game/Forum Teams do help with the liaising as much as possible.

The irony being that this topic is complaining about Developer interaction, you have a developer who replies multiple times in the topic, clearly showing activity of Developers and Developer interaction and yet quite a few people jump on and just say 'Excuses!' and have a go at them for responding to the topic in a way they do not like. Is this supposed to encourage them to respond more in general? Since it certainly is not the way to go about it. Some times people may say something you do not exactly agree with or that you do not exactly want to hear, however by simply dismissing what they say with things such as 'excuses, all excuses' and other dismissive comments, you basically tell them that what they are saying is invalid and/or not wanted. So why would they want to continue posting more invalid/unwanted things and 'waste time' that they could spend developing. This is not exactly the case, since quite a few people do respond fairly, I am simply trying to question some of the logic of what does go on in these sorts of topics. It does begin to prove one of the points made in the above paragraph. Again, this is not the soul reason or an excuse, just pointing out what is going on and the possible consequences of it. I do think Trans summed it up pretty well earlier, saying this same thing.

The response to the above was about quality of response and quantity of response being different. However this topic is mainly based on quantity, if you read through from the start that is the message it gives, that there is not enough interaction. That is what the responses given were based on, then about mid-way through someone decided the issue was actually quality. Now the rest of my post does mostly talk about the quantity and explains that, however quality wise, it is certainly a hard one and I have touched on it already. With quality, you need to remember that the examples that have been given of Alina and Cysero, Alina is a writer and Cysero does a lot of AQW's writing at times to, so you have named two people who have a lot of experience in writing and verbal communication skills, using that writing to interact with the players. Where as Titan and Rabblefroth are Programmers, Charfade and NightWraith are artists. They can communicate perfectly fine, but they do not exactly have the skills that writers with a lot of experience have to express the passion or emotion through the communication they do. Writers are specifically specialised in that area and it is why a lot of Writers are usually the ones that do the PR for companies. Quality of response is also subjective, some people may like one response others like another. Some people want us to post on ideas 'Yes, great, we'll implement it' however in the past we have found that promising things like that does not work if we find it is not possible or it gets pushed back, so usually it will be a may be or a we will look into it. As members of staff everything that is said carries weight and so, everything that is said has to be worded in a way that takes that into account. Sometimes it can lead to the post maybe being very blunt, but not everyone can phrase posts in a way that offers emotion/passion while phrasing it well, since that is a writing skill and the four lab staff are all artists/programmers, not writers.

At the end of the day the developers develop releases for the game and work all week each week to do so. Charfade and Rabblefroth both try hard to get on here and reply in different topics as much as possible, Charfade certainly answers some questions in Q&A, in Suggestions, here in GD and anywhere she can. Rabblefroth replies wherever he can on balance and other general things and both do give some of their development times to reply to you all, but they only can give up a bit of that time, so they can still make sure their work is all completed! All of the developers make sure to tweet as frequently as possible and design notes are posted weekly, usually with patch notes also coming on Fridays with the release. This all takes time out of development and it is why there are teams to help with the liaising. It is nice to have direct contact with the developers, it is completely understandable, but it does need to be understood they do only have a limited amount of time they can allow for this interaction and that is why they are not always as active as you may want, but that tends to mean something good is in the works, such as this Dread War and it is draining their time! :)

< Message edited by Lycus -- 6/13/2013 2:48:42 >
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 50
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