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RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread

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1/28/2014 19:59:53   
Skurge
The Dealer
~ Thread unlocked ~



quote:

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    • Although this is the Balance Discussion Thread, it is asked that you do not argue meaninglessly with other forumites over an issue which has already been addressed.

    The Sage has already informed us that Ironhide will not be receiving a nerf nor does it need one. I’m going to be moderate and simply ask that this conversation stops here and now. Ironhide will remain as it is and there is no reason to continue this useless debate.

    In case you've forgotten, The Sage has already told us:

    quote:

    Well, in the end Iron Hide is not going to be changed again, it was already lowered due to it blocking more damage then what can be dealt in a single turn on average.

    As for it being used on "every" turn you would have to get more specifics on that because if it is indeed being used every turn then there might be something wrong because you cant draw cards and play cards at the same time.


    quote:

    There is no problem with Iron Hide, it is not over powered and it does not grant immunity from everything, it can be broken and the person using it can be killed.

    Look at it from the angle of defending from DoTs, it goes through Counters, eats up Shields and there is no way of removing them. Without Iron Hide there is no decent defense against DoTs.


    quote:

    Iron Hide is not getting changed, end of story.



    ~Skurge,
    ArchKnight OverSoul General Discussion

    < Message edited by Skurge -- 1/28/2014 20:34:51 >
    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 376
    1/28/2014 20:38:36   
    DidYouKnowThat
    Member

    		Do you guys think characters with card builds as small as 10 would be balanced gameplay? Or maybe even smaller. . .
    Post #: 377
    1/28/2014 20:41:57   
    Trollok!!!
    Member

    		Probably not...it'd be far too easy to cycle through cards and could be potentially abusive. Imagine a 5 card deck with just Neutralize, Corruption, two Iron Hides, and a Counter Attack. You'd pummel EVERYTHING.
    DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 378
    1/28/2014 20:42:05   
    Mondez
    Member

    		Bringing back up the issue with Life Drain.

    Life Drain should get a 1 - 2 cost reduction, but I did discuss it the previous page which was overshadowed by the talk of Iron Hide. When you look at a card like Greater Heal which I know is a legendary card with a cost of 5 due to the one turn delay and MoD which deals 900 at the cost of 6 with a 1 turn delay. Shadow has a good amount of high costing cards, but Life Drain is one of those I think the cost is a bit high.

    An arguement can be made that Life Drain is best with the Sacrifice combo, but in truth Life Drain is really situational and I feel it's a waste of a card if it's only good with such combination. A lot of times through the match you'll find yourself discarding it because it takes up a good amount of space plus the high cost deters you away from using it. A one cost reduction should not affect balance all that much with Life Drain and while one argues that the cost is there because it essentially is a heal and a 500 attack damage card is what I want to get away from.

    Shadows use up a lot of energy and they don't have any energy regaining factors like Neutral, Water, and Energy, but of course so do Earth, Ice, and Fire. The Shadow element is best known for their DoT power, but I feel as though that Life Drain as well as it is justifiable in its cost should once again gain at least 1 point in the energy cost to a 7 or the very least allow Empower to increase it's damage base.

    < Message edited by Mondez -- 1/28/2014 20:43:36 >
    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 379
    1/28/2014 20:45:18   
    DidYouKnowThat
    Member

    		You know what though, maybe they can switch Life-drain from an insta-heal to a HoT. . .

    (Edit) Nevermind, maybe not. . I don't know. . .but true, Life-drains a card I don't like to use, and considering that it should be used with a Sacrifice or something for combination? I don't think Shadow element was for Combo attacks right? . . or DoT's and things. . right? Don't know now Lololol

    < Message edited by DidYouKnowThat -- 1/28/2014 20:46:43 >
    Post #: 380
    1/28/2014 20:47:53   
    Trollok!!!
    Member

    		Change it to a DoT that restores health based on damage dealt perhaps? Fits with the Shadow theme.

    < Message edited by Trollok!!! -- 1/28/2014 20:48:07 >
    DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 381
    1/28/2014 20:48:53   
    DidYouKnowThat
    Member

    		@Trollok: 150 hp gained per hit? Or something? Counts for DoT's too.

    < Message edited by DidYouKnowThat -- 1/28/2014 20:49:02 >
    Post #: 382
    1/28/2014 20:50:31   
    Gorillo Titan
    Member

    		A DOT HOT card that takes away 200 and heals 200 each turn
    Post #: 383
    1/28/2014 20:51:52   
    DidYouKnowThat
    Member

    		For Shadow, I don't think Healing should be spell-based. . . . that's for Light. . . .Healing should be when attacking I think . . .
    Post #: 384
    1/28/2014 20:52:16   
    Trollok!!!
    Member

    		@Gorillo: Precisely what I was thinking along the lines of.

    If we want to make it interesting, blocked damage wouldn't count as healed damage since there's no "drain." Of course, it'd need a compensation in extra power then or lower cost xD
    DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 385
    1/28/2014 20:52:31   
    Jmagician
    Member

    		Even I'm not a fan of Life Drain the way it is. I must agree with all your points Mondez.
    AQW  Post #: 386
    1/28/2014 20:57:19   
    Gorillo Titan
    Member

    		Maybe we need a new 0 energy card for another element so far only crush and sacrifice something for fire maybe.
    Post #: 387
    1/28/2014 20:57:48   
    DidYouKnowThat
    Member

    		HoT/DoT at the same time eh? Should be one heck of a Energy price then. Lol!

    Although I still think Shadow should focus more on getting their health back from ATTACKS, not hitching on a ride with a DoT at the same time/card/use whatever. :P
    Post #: 388
    1/28/2014 20:59:34   
    Trollok!!!
    Member

    		Hey, I think we could do with different card mechanics. Would make things more interesting :).

    And they could make it like Energy Arc; lasts 6 turns, 200 damage each turn, 200 heal each turn, and then maybe 8 energy cost.

    < Message edited by Trollok!!! -- 1/28/2014 21:00:43 >
    DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 389
    1/28/2014 21:01:15   
    DidYouKnowThat
    Member

    		Eh. Each element should be very different from each other though, so when it comes to new card mechanics we don't want some of their abilities mixing around with each other. . . Right? :P

    200 each turn? Maybe 200 every other turn? That sorta rapid healing. . .Or only when it attacks . . . . . .

    Yeah, heals only when it attacks, would certainly put better use of any Blood-rages or Sacrifices that come on hand later on in the battle.

    < Message edited by DidYouKnowThat -- 1/28/2014 21:05:48 >
    Post #: 390
    1/28/2014 21:05:06   
    ND Mallet
    Legendary AK!!!


    		 I think Life Drain is fine. When combined with Sacrifice, you get two 500 attack cards. By itself, it's only one charge from being efficient(4 for 500 damage and 3 for Heal). 1 extra charge for it being one card instead of two is a pretty good trade in my opinion.
    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 391
    1/28/2014 21:05:06   
    Trollok!!!
    Member

    		@DYKT: But mixing produces a new mechanic :). Tell me, what other character has a HoT based on a DoT.

    The animation could be cool too. Maybe it could have you striking the ground and tendrils burst out at the enemy and a red aura surrounds your character as it's healed. Dunno if the coding is possible though.

    If you're worried about rapid healing, then it could be if enemy blocks the hit, there's not HP to drain.

    < Message edited by Trollok!!! -- 1/28/2014 21:06:31 >
    DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 392
    1/28/2014 21:06:37   
    DidYouKnowThat
    Member

    		Just cause nobody has it yet doesn't mean it should be given to any chosen element. :/ Gotta take in account of what the element is SUPPOSED to be, and sorry, but I just don't see an HoT suitable for Shadow Element.

    Blocking means no drain? Oh ok I can see what you did there. . . . .Alright then maybe. . . .


    And I like Sacrifice card better than Life-drain . . .Lol. . .


    < Message edited by DidYouKnowThat -- 1/28/2014 21:08:53 >
    Post #: 393
    1/28/2014 21:07:57   
    Gorillo Titan
    Member

    		It would be possible to stop it but giving that to a different element seems like a better idea since Shadow is already the king of Dots.

    How about a card called mediate that works on neutral characters for a gain of heal over time?

    How about a card that heals 1000 damage if you die in 3 turns?


    Actually just combine my two card ideas

    Mediate a card that gives 1000 health if you die while it is active has to cost a lot of energy though so it isn't spammed only one per deck not in CC. 15-20 energy seems like a good amount.

    blood siphon for the card that takes health and also heals you.

    < Message edited by Gorillo Titan -- 1/28/2014 21:12:57 >
    Post #: 394
    1/28/2014 21:08:00   
    Mondez
    Member

    		If Shadows were to heal then physical based damage would be the best bet or if you want to make it a DoT based card since the concept is still technically a drain then here's the base mechanic.

    Life Drain - for 3 turns deal 200 damage restoring 100 HP each turn for 6 energy.

    Reason why I put the cost that way because it's a 2 for one card and since Shadow's main priority is to do damage over time, it's,befitting for the damage to be greater than the heal.

    Shadow yes isn't a healing class because that falls to Water and Light, but something needs to be done to Life Drain or at least a clarification to its cost. The Sacrifice + Life Drain combo can only work so far and Life Drain is the Achilles heal and bane of the Shadow's existence. A single point of reduced energy on the card I guarantee will not have heavy effects when it comes to the other elements.

    < Message edited by Mondez -- 1/28/2014 21:11:30 >
    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 395
    1/28/2014 21:09:53   
    Trollok!!!
    Member

    		@DYKT: Logically, it would make sense if it didn't drain since you didn't hurt your enemy. In that sense, I think a HoT could work since you're literally depending on your opponent's life force as opposed to HoTs in like characters where they derive it purely from their energy pools. Fits Shadow theme of attack and DoT well whilst preserving the original Life Drain concept. Plus, 1200 dmg and heal over 6 turns could be justified by the current cost. Problem solved? :D

    @Gorillo: Is giving Neutral a way of healing a good idea...imagine Iron Hides and healing and Corruptions. It's like Xmas Elf but worse. Edit: Alright for that energy cost maybe.

    < Message edited by Trollok!!! -- 1/28/2014 21:12:21 >
    DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 396
    1/28/2014 21:11:53   
    DidYouKnowThat
    Member

    		@ND: Well . . .I still find life-Drain a very uncomfortable card to use. . I can see what you're saying, but I think it'll be more comfortable is re-worked. . . into a different manner


    @Gorillo: I think Neutral has gotten enough Defense, lololol. Healing will just over-do it. Haha.

    < Message edited by DidYouKnowThat -- 1/28/2014 21:13:01 >
    Post #: 397
    1/28/2014 21:15:18   
    Gorillo Titan
    Member

    		Meditate would be like the opposite of natures gift since that card mostly kills people meditate will save you.
    Post #: 398
    1/28/2014 21:17:57   
    Trollok!!!
    Member

    		So kind of like a Resurrection skill? I certainly like the concept...
    DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 399
    1/28/2014 21:49:06   
    Gorillo Titan
    Member

    		Yeah pretty much
    Post #: 400
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