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Multi Buff

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8/12/2013 23:54:36   
Dual Thrusters
Member

The multis already cost a whole more energy against two opponents. To top it off, they deal 85% damage. Here are my buff suggestions.

Normal Buff Ideas

1. 100% damage against 2 opponents.
2. or The energy cost will be the same regardless of the amount of targets.
3. Remove the warm up

Strong Buffs

- 1&2 combined
-2&3 combined
- 1&3 combined

Dramatic Buffs

- all combined

< Message edited by Dual Thrusters -- 8/25/2013 0:48:40 >
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 1
8/13/2013 0:05:36   
Drangonslayer
Member

Why not like 95% damage or make it cost a bit less because people who use multi's usually have it high and make it cost more than 30 which can easily be taken away with energy removing skills.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 2
8/13/2013 0:13:07   
Dual Thrusters
Member

Well it might as well be 100% if it's going to be 95%

And my suggestion will remove the extra energy cost against 2 opponents.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 3
8/13/2013 4:36:56   
DarkDevil
Member

the reason why it deals less damage when attacking 2 targets AND have higher cost is because it actually hits both targets this isn't a suggestion to buff rather to remove balance side-effects if both gets same damage like (assuming 30 defence and 70 damage) in 1 vs 1 he will take 40 damage so you are dealing 40 damage total while in 2 vs 2 IF you deal 40 damage each you actually dealt 80 damage so instead you deal 30 damage each for 60 damage which is better than 40 damage except spread on two targets you also pay more energy.

< Message edited by DarkDevil -- 8/13/2013 4:41:31 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 4
8/13/2013 19:36:24   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Didn't they kind of nerf it because it was obvious that multi investment wasn't worth it at all in 1v1 compared to the benefits it had in 2v2, even with the far greater energy cost?

This could simply be fixed by increasing energy cost and base damage/scaling.
Epic  Post #: 5
8/14/2013 12:10:30   
newtena
Member

supported
100 percent. lately it takes my whole build points to make it effective leaving me dry for extra attacks.
buffing it will help overcome the ineffective and greedy ness of it. if its such a bother you can lower the user's defense take their mana or increase yourself with shield.

< Message edited by newtena -- 8/14/2013 12:28:10 >
Post #: 6
8/23/2013 19:21:46   
Archlord Raistlin
Member
 

 Supported...
Hunters have no chance to use 2v2 multi anymore. 1/3 of your skill points and 2/3 of your energy is not worth
hitting 2 players for 20 each. That does not impact a battle and leaves you with nothing. You can't wait for
rage because hunters have no natural energy regain, every build can steal your energy and static charge
is so lame you could never regain enough to use multi at that point in a battle.

The skill itself, improving with dexterity, has no synergy with any other skills, making it even less usable.

How can anyone even attempt to justify how "balanced" multi is? It has been useless and unused for 2 years.
Simply play 2v2 and check it out... maybe 1 in 100 hunters use multi. With omega rulz in place, even lower
level players can easily have 30-35 resist, reducing its effectiveness even more. See any problems with that?

Multi should be a basic 2v2 hunter skill that anyone could consider building around. It used to be a fun skill.
But I get it...keeping it the same lame skill helps everyone who is not a hunter...one less skill to worry about,
and if they create a multi build that is kinda effective they are so weak in other areas, they are easily beaten.

As I recall the basis of nerfing artillary, multi and rain was based on some bogus damage calculation more
applicable to 1v1.

How simple would it be to make all multi skills effective again for 2v2 and then eliminate their use in 1v1 play?
You don't have to replace the skill, just not allow it to be selected in a 1v1 match. As you know, 1v1 players
wouldn't have to worry about spending 40 EP like 2v2 players do. Or keep the skill usable, but have a 2-tiered
damage system, reducing the 1v1 damage and increasing the 2v2 damage. Make it lame for 1v1, not 2v2.

At its current effectiveness, multi against 2 players should cost 25 EP with 2P 100% damage, or have the damage
cap raised 30% to make up for the omega defense buffs and chance that a hunter would even have 40 EP
available when raging. You should not spend 2/3 of your EP for nothing...

Support spammers can use artillary on occasion only because they get increased aux and crit damage.
Hunters get nothing...maybe one dex-spamming block :/


< Message edited by Archlord Raistlin -- 8/23/2013 20:07:07 >
Post #: 7
8/24/2013 8:28:38   
ED Divine Darkness
Member

well multy shot is great at low levels but loses its effectiveness at high levels. what should be done is:

reduce its base power by 5.

make it scale with tec.

make it scale 2 points quicker.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 8
8/24/2013 8:32:05   
Ranloth
Banned


 You cannot make Multi Shot stronger and leave others as they are. ALL Multis are to be equal, and that was said a while back when they weren't and Devs have fixed it. 2 points quicker is also overkill. From /4 to /2? I'd be fine with /3 or /3.5 - probably latter - since it'd still grant some bonus damage. Just that. With high x stat, it'd be 3-4 damage more than now per 100 stats.
AQ Epic  Post #: 9
8/24/2013 8:37:04   
ED Divine Darkness
Member

quote:

ALL Multis are to be equal


mages get energy cos of reroute, so they can easily use their multy.

tactical merc too.

merc can do high aux damage in a multy build +quick rage and crits.

the multies on the other classes need fixing.

and make it 10 points less base damage then. it needs quicker scaling cos multies are so inefficient.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 10
8/24/2013 8:42:34   
Ranloth
Banned


 I'm talking about the skills Multi, I don't need to know who has synergy and who doesn't. It's irrelevant. The skills must be equal when it comes to the same category.

Also, Multis are good if you use them wisely and not rely on the completely. Takes some brain to use which is why we see it less nowadays, because there are faster builds that may be better in more situations too.
AQ Epic  Post #: 11
8/24/2013 9:08:21   
DarkDevil
Member

@Archlord Raistlin in 1 vs 1 it would deal 30 damage , in 2 vs 2 it will deal 20 each which is 40 damage so you pay 8 extra energy ... its well balanced that you deal 40 damage for 40 energy.
the reason it drains 2/3 of you energy is to prevent you from using it again , if its cost droped down to 35 for double you would simply use it at lvl 9 with 66 energy twice therefore it will be really OP. while needing 80 energy to use it twice makes it harder or rather impossible in most fights.

@ED Divine Darkness making it rely on tech will make it OP , there is already smoke and emp and plasma grenade and venom strike are all on Tech that is too much if added multi to it.
making it scale higher is a good idea tho but this will rather increase the imbalance of the support mercs so that won't be needed.

anyway talking about synergy you will gain back 5-10 health when using it this is also synergy.
but why bountys are the least usage of multi is because they (WE) need to deal high damage constantly in order to regain hp also the fact we can't use it twice and it relies on a defensive stat so it is of least power on bountys.

< Message edited by DarkDevil -- 8/24/2013 9:17:05 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 12
8/24/2013 12:08:56   
kosmo
Member
 

 Spreadfire needs a buff as well, and expecially the bothanical borg.
Epic  Post #: 13
8/24/2013 12:40:21   
DarkDevil
Member

actually they need a nerf cus they can be used without costing energy and could be spamed , i think the amount should be reduced to 80% on both spreadfire and borg.

and please none reply more to that statement above .. i don't want ppl to lose temper.

< Message edited by DarkDevil -- 8/24/2013 12:43:54 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 14
8/24/2013 12:58:45   
kosmo
Member
 

 ^Do you know what a forum is?How can I spam bothanical borg?
If spredfire was 90% on the enemy you select and 80% on the other it would make sense using it, maybe this could be done on multi as well.

< Message edited by kosmo -- 8/24/2013 13:11:30 >
Epic  Post #: 15
9/1/2013 0:00:41   
kittycat
Member

Spreadfire is doing fine the way it is, but however, each opponent should be dealt (damage done if it were to be 1v1)*.85,
AQ MQ  Post #: 16
9/1/2013 11:11:30   
Bloodpact
Member

Be nice if it was 100% damage.
Epic  Post #: 17
9/2/2013 0:10:56   
Archlord Raistlin
Member
 
Multi strike used to be a common 2v2 skill, widely employed, with many diverse builds using it from low to high levels.
The fact that the same arguments are being used to defend the worst balance adjustment in the game is really
troubling and gives me the feeling that nothing will change for the better in 2v2.

You can go back to the day of the multi nerf update and see that within 1 week it was dead for hunters. That was
not because it takes some special intellingence to use, or the 1v1 numbers make it so. It's because most quickly
found out that for a general use build, against a variety of opponents, multi strike was 2v2 inefficient, costly, and the
points and energy needed could be used more effectively elsewhere. 40 points of damage for 40 EP is a waste and
that's why it is unused. Even in 1v1 30 points of damage for 32 EP is a waste...

Omega allows for high defense and resist builds very easily, far easier than it has ever been. Mercs with support
have crit chances that can hit for 70-90 damage and mages with tech can use both bolt and rain without worrying
about their energy. Hunters have to be stingy with energy and are forced to consider using multi early on in the
match...when it is least effective. Using it once is possible...using it twice in any scenario is ridiculous due to every
class having the ability to reduce EP and you would never live long enough to use it twice.

This thread is 100% proven in high level matches by simply looking around in 2v2. It went from a popular skill
that was fun to use to something that is no threat and generates more LOL's than anything else.
Post #: 18
9/2/2013 19:07:47   
lionblades
Member

Multi is one of the best skills for everyone in 2vs2 at low levels BUT once you level up to higher levels multi for every class except supp multis is USELESS and free wins for everyone.
AQW  Post #: 19
9/2/2013 19:22:50   
Mother1
Member

@ loinblades

Unless you are going against a dex build, or someone puts up a strong defense matrix or Reflex boost to counter this. I use defense matrix quite a lot when facing support merc's and it is a very effective counter in 2 vs 2.
Epic  Post #: 20
9/2/2013 21:37:46   
lionblades
Member

^
I never said I don't know how to counter SUPP Multis

I stated that SUPP multis are the only helpful skill in the multi area of the skill tree in 2vs2 at high levels. DEX Multis are useless since they can't have a second source of dmg unlike a SUPP aux and are very weak in 2vs2 at high levels.
And I am a high hp str build so I find it better to all out attack the SUPP mercs and kill in 2-4 turns.

< Message edited by lionblades -- 9/2/2013 21:38:25 >
AQW  Post #: 21
9/10/2013 15:13:51   
Archlord Raistlin
Member
 

 Whenever I matrix against a sup merc, he just crits me for 23/24...even when I have 48 defense.
Do hunters even have anything close to that kind of potential damage? ...makes me laugh actually.

lionblades is absolutely correct in his comments.
Post #: 22
9/10/2013 15:41:58   
Mother1
Member

@ Archlord raistlin

This sometimes happens yes, but not always. Many times when I use this it sometimes saved me or my partner from a heavy pounding even though it was nerfed due to the support nerf some time back (why they left energy shield along when it is powered by support but choose to only nerf defense matrix but that is another story)

But on your comment look at what these multi's are powered by. Plasma rain, and Multi shot Dex, and Artillery strike Support.

Support is an offensive stat that give you more of a chance to crit which is offensive where are plasma rain and Multi shot are powered by dex which gives you block chance. I am willing to bet if all multi's were powered by supported no one would complain since they would be just a powerful as Artillery strike.
Epic  Post #: 23
9/10/2013 23:03:01   
Archlord Raistlin
Member
 

 That would be interesting to see all 2v2 sup spammer hunters and mages... just to use multi and rain.

Plasma always used to be tech, but I agree. Rather than putting multi and rain on support, just put
artillary on dex or tech to make the damage as lame as the rest of ours. Wait...apparently you can't
do that because of some unwritten fairness rule :/
Post #: 24
9/10/2013 23:24:58   
Dual Thrusters
Member

LOL Cybers and Tech Mages would gain so much from having support multis

quote:

That would be interesting to see all 2v2 sup spammer hunters and mages... just to use multi and rain.


Think of all the synergy these classes will have.

-Puts all stats into support
-Malf removes 60 tech
-Multi does at least 60 damage
-aux to finish
-Oh yea! and a level 1 defense matrix will grant +40 defenses! Good luck getting around that, even with Azreal.
-If you're a Tech Mage, then you can easily recover lost energy from reroute since you have no defenses
-Cyber would also have shadow arts, try stacking that with Ninja Reflexes. Don't forget the deflections because of malf.
-Did I mention that each attack will have an extremely high chance to crit?


< Message edited by Dual Thrusters -- 9/10/2013 23:26:33 >
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 25
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