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RE: Bludgeon Balance

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10/7/2013 23:40:35   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator
quote:

you would get a straight line every time. No curves, no limits. An average simply allows people to look at a set of data as 1 comprehensible number.


But you should be getting a straight line considering the skill point progression (excluding massacre cause that has wonky damage increases). However, thanks to ED's strange rounding system, it becomes curved and really loses that nice correlation/r-value of 1. But my main point is that there are really strange inconsistencies in damage boosts and ratio increases because the LSRL (least squares regression line) has little significance since the rounding system is quite strange.

Actually, now that I look at it, finding the mean is really not a great idea for comparisons. However, I know what's perfect for comparing data side-by-side, and that is not the value at max skill point investment because you are only giving a piece of the puzzle that will lead others into thinking what you've stated is entirely true. Not that I'm accusing you, I'm just using an analogy with such connotation.

Rather than finding the mean, the true best way to do side-by-side comparisons would be to find the mean ratio of all the skill points, then use that to standardize every single skill point investment. Once you've found the z-scores for everything, comparing things will be much more comprehensible and easier to make clear judgments on. Of course, there's still going to be inevitable bias of how much that 1 turn less of cooldown is worth, and how much that warm-up period is worth.

Reply to deleted content removed. ~~Therril Oreb

< Message edited by Therril Oreb -- 10/8/2013 3:58:35 >
Epic  Post #: 51
10/9/2013 22:22:14   
GearzHeadz
Member

^That's what I tried to do in my original posts, find the % that were closest together in number, then compare their costs.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 52
10/9/2013 23:31:15   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 @Gearz: Systematically you took a good approach, but really the best way to easily compare them would be to standardize the values to easily compare them. By using z-scores rather than percentages, you can not only very quickly compare the differences between the different skills, but you can also see a little more with much less opinion involved.
Epic  Post #: 53
10/10/2013 21:46:28   
AQisFuN
Banned


 A level 1 Massacre for 31% more damage costs 33 Energy. As for bludgeon, 50% more damage for 28 Energy. What garbage is this??!

Edit: @Below Never thought of it that way, but I still think it needs a change. It costs a little energy for ALOT of damage.

< Message edited by AQisFuN -- 10/11/2013 3:48:25 >
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 54
10/11/2013 2:07:23   
martinsen5
Member

@AQisFuN, Well for one thing Bludgeon is blockable whereas Massacre is not.
AQW Epic  Post #: 55
10/11/2013 5:09:39   
dfo99
Member
 
quote:

A level 1 Massacre for 31% more damage costs 33 Energy. As for bludgeon, 50% more damage for 28 Energy.



the massacre need only 1 skill point for it and bludgeon 10 skill points.

< Message edited by dfo99 -- 10/11/2013 5:11:31 >
Post #: 56
10/11/2013 5:18:11   
Ranloth
Banned
quote:

the massacre need only 1 skill point for it and bludgeon 10 skill points.

Massacre is an Ultimate and unlocked at Level 10 + requires some skills beforehand + Claws only, Bludgeon does not + unlocked earlier + useable with a Sword.
AQ Epic  Post #: 57
10/11/2013 16:14:15   
wireclub1990
Banned

 

 I think its more the combination of bludgeon bloodlust and deadly aim that's op the other used build works for tms to but no where near as effectively as it does for bm which is what leads me to this conclusion as I'm using the overused build I can safely say its severely OP if it is used correctly you can't loose without hardcore luck on your opponents side unless your facing another strength bm then the first turn decides the fight. A focus bh with high dex decent smoke can beat you but again requires luck needs 2-3 blocks to have ny hope and since with cores the sidearm and chairmans fury u only have one blockable move in your chain they aint winning. Tanks and casters are 3 wins no matter what they do heal shield all their doing is giving u free shots you'll still hit decent damage through the shield if they heal unless its max you'll take most of the heal off them in one hit their really is nothing they can do .

My point is bludgeon isn't op its the build more specifically the BM build.
Post #: 58
10/13/2013 23:21:24   
nkc413
Member

I bloody piss off about Bludgeon as it is so OP and I die many times becoz of this skill. bring smoke bk to tlm and all other classes will know who's the boss of this game!!!
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 59
10/14/2013 12:34:15   
toopygoo
Member

the purpose of balance isnt to overpower a single class... its to EQUALIZE all classes the best we an, regarding synergy of both drawbacks, and advances. I find there no issues with this skill. sure it has the energy efficiency thing, it can be blocked, and debuffed so its not too much to worry about.
AQW Epic  Post #: 60
10/14/2013 12:41:29   
Scyze
Member

If Bludgeon is OP, why didn't you complain about it before?
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 61
10/14/2013 12:42:31   
Ranloth
Banned


 Define "before". Strength progression was nerfed. Bludgeon (and other %-based skills) were nerfed. When specifically are you referring to?
AQ Epic  Post #: 62
10/14/2013 12:51:46   
lionblades
Member

Just to let you guys know I've hard a hard time fighting str BM as a str user but once I chanced into a 5 focus BH I can beat them about 80% of the time so BM are not really OP
AQW  Post #: 63
10/14/2013 12:51:55   
Scyze
Member

Before as in, before there were a lot of these Strength BMs. When the 'Glass Cannon' builds were around, a lot of them had Bludgeon at the same level as the Strength BMs we see now.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 64
10/21/2013 5:19:47   
Warmaker04
Member
 

 Scyze, they are just doing this * Ohhh Nooooo!!!! i lost a battle by BM!!!!!! Or merc!!!!! Nerf that bunker buster or bludgeon ! *
They want these skills nerfed, so they cannot be stopped in any case... I will suggest you a random builds to do, instead to do that * ohh No ..... * These both skills doesnt need nerf at any case...Bludgeon is absolutelly fine... Sorry for necro-bumping this topic, but i couldn`t hang on so i decided to post >.>

< Message edited by Warmaker04 -- 10/21/2013 5:22:09 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 65
10/21/2013 21:35:34   
GearzHeadz
Member

^Actually that's not why I made this post at all, but thanks for that great way of trying to summarize in an absolutely immature way of what only a few people who commented on this forum have done. Most of us had been trying to statistically compare the damage/energy cost ratio to other % based damage skills.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 66
10/23/2013 10:38:25   
dfo99
Member
 
quote:

^Actually that's not why I made this post at all, but thanks for that great way of trying to summarize in an absolutely immature way of what only a few people who commented on this forum have done. Most of us had been trying to statistically compare the damage/energy cost ratio to other % based damage skills.


the fact is that the double strike and bludgeon need be little improved, by reason of you need strength to be useful and strength builds usually have low dex and tech points, making a high probably of block and deflect
Post #: 67
10/23/2013 14:38:23   
wireclub1990
Banned

 

 ^ Strength is far more useful then dex or tech right offence is far more useful then defence are you trying to tell me you think strength needs buffing am I missing something ?
Post #: 68
10/23/2013 14:50:05   
Mother1
Member

@ Df099

Every build has to have a weakness otherwise it is overpowered. When you go high strength and don't invest in anything else that is the risk you take. If there was no risk in doing so then the masses would just go straight to that build even more than now, and they would destroy everything.

So those moves are fine as it is. If you don't want to get blocked or deflected invest in dex and tech, or use lucky strike and aim assist cores which lower the chances of blocks and deflections.
Epic  Post #: 69
10/23/2013 16:04:51   
ED Divine Darkness
Member

BM ISNT OP. DEAL WITH IT GUYS. i even went CH to prove that. deaths doom. guys, its not op. just need to think and use good stategies. like dex focus CH? works.( not that im using right now. cos im doing jugg)

a quote from trans:

op=/= one person

op= everyone
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 70
10/23/2013 16:28:56   
wireclub1990
Banned

 

 ^ I disagree simply because I am using a BM and never lose in 1v1 unless luck comes more then twice or I make a bad move where I could of made a better one and won I usually realize as soon as I've done it . But I'm not complaining if you think bm should stay the way it is I've been averaging around about 78-2 w/l since this update in 1v1 so if it doesn't get nerfed I lose nothing
Post #: 71
10/23/2013 18:16:09   
Wootz
Member

Increase the cost by two Energy points and everyone is happy. :p
AQW Epic  Post #: 72
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