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Unfairness Level Adventage!!!!

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10/14/2013 19:54:46   
lost with love
Member
 

 i have read a similiar topic about the Level Adventage but yet again i will share my point of view!
Once i got to lvl 30, The lvl adventage changed the whole game in team battle (2 vs 2).
80 % of the time <- my partner would either be a lvl of 35/36 and the enemyteam always end up with either a 35 & 36 or 36 & 36
ofcourse, the worst possibility you can probably be thinking is : Yep, i lost this one OR there goes my partner<- he's taking off/LEAVING!(wich both of this turned out to be exactly just like your thoughts! not just one time but only "80 times" out of 100.

Post #: 1
10/14/2013 20:05:28   
Mother1
Member

Off topic

Oh look it is this thread again

On topic

Believe or not this happens at all levels (meaning you get pair against someone who is higher level than you) However since there are far less players at the higher levels the engine pairs them off against lower levels as a last resort when no one of their level can be found. Once again this happens at all levels (Having someone paired against you that is higher level) but the difference is at lower levels there are more players at those levels playing so it doesn't happen as often as it does at the higher levels.

But on another note I see no suggestion or remedy within your post either. You could have at least made a suggestion so the masses could either agree or disagree with in and explain why they agree or disagree.
Epic  Post #: 2
10/14/2013 20:29:10   
wireclub1990
Banned

 

 ^ except a 35/36 almost always knows what they are doing with a extremely powerful build so its a lot more devastating then at a lower level the advantage they have in a fight is almost impossible to come back from / make up for without extreme luck and your forced into these fights more often then you are not . Yes theirs a chance you may win sometimes but you'll lose a lot more then you win the odds arew stacked so massively against you and these fights are happening far to often . Its even worse cause 2v2 is the only real option you have after 29 up to 33ish cause 1v1 and juggernaut will produce the same vastly unfair fights if not worse. The current system is saying to level 29s+ put up with rubbish and fight against the odds where you will rarely win become less active or leave . Good stuff. The majority of the lower levels just leave I don't blame them they know they have very little hope of winning . And you know something else I bet most of them aren't logging back in for awhile .

< Message edited by wireclub1990 -- 10/14/2013 20:39:18 >
Post #: 3
10/14/2013 20:39:55   
Mother1
Member

@ Wireclub1990

Answer me this why does this happen more often at the higher levels then lower ones? Answer because there aren't enough player in this range to go around and we both know this. Juggernaut used to be a good option for those high level players who wanted to level up that is until omega basically gave the power to the lower level jugs and stripped it from higher levels.

But in all honestly there have been 2 solutions posted for this.

The one I mentioned which would be to decrease the level curve at higher levels so lower levels could reach it faster thus creating more higher level players, then there is the one I hear the most which is cut the level range for all levels which as mentioned before will hurt one group of players to help out another.
Epic  Post #: 4
10/14/2013 20:42:28   
wireclub1990
Banned

 

 I think the second is more likely to fix the problem. and we all know the answer to your question their aren't enough at the cap but guess what their never will be with this system very few will put up with this .
Post #: 5
10/14/2013 20:46:34   
Mother1
Member

Wireclub1990

Which everyone won't agree to because this solution as I said will punish one group of players for another. I remember Charfade saying sometime ago they would never implement something that would be biased against a certain group of players which in this case would be biased against higher level players since they will suffer longer wait times.

I also remember you mentioning another reason why lower levels don't level up to the cap was because the level curve was so overwhelming that they quit. So how does the second solution which as I mentioned before punishes another group of players will help with the overwhelming level curve?
Epic  Post #: 6
10/14/2013 20:52:00   
wireclub1990
Banned

 

 because unless you massively decreased the xp to level it was a case of winning a couple ofm hundred battles it ain't going to cut it people aren't going to put up with masses of facing unfair fights their just going to leave which will also hurt the higher level players when people start to realise that a tiny % of people setting out are actually making it to 36 we may get somewhere . better to hurt the higher levels in the short run then completely destroy the game in the long run . Way to many problems with omega and nothing is being done .Before their were npcs juggernaut people could win in enhancements gave you a really good fighting chance in a unfair battle now theirs nothing and we are seeing the result server numbers going down mass anger in battles with the few that are holding on hoping for change . people leaving 2v2s all the time .

< Message edited by wireclub1990 -- 10/14/2013 20:55:56 >
Post #: 7
10/14/2013 21:08:08   
Mother1
Member

@Wireless1990

Which was why I made this suggestion topic sometime ago which if put into play would decrease all exp requirements at 30-36 by 50%

Also the second solution will only bare fruit if said lower levels actually go through and level up to the cap level. While there might be a chance they may play more if they get could win more, they may still quit due to the EXP gap between levels. That is something that needs to be dealt with as well.

Also as for your other things you mentioned juggernaut was punishment for the lower levels trying to get past the juggernaut range due to said enhancements the jug had. many non variums came to the forums complaining about how unfair juggernaut mode was because they were forced into a battle mode they didn't want to play and would almost always lose. As it is now it is still the same but at even lower levels due to most lower level players not having gear or cores to help them.

Epic  Post #: 8
10/14/2013 21:27:24   
wireclub1990
Banned

 

 It may surprise you to know I don't disagree with the change to juggernaut but as per usual things either don't get fixed or don't get fixed properly creating more problems then it solves which is why this game has never had a impressive amount of active players even at its peaks . And now it barely has any players full stop
Post #: 9
10/14/2013 22:48:07   
toopygoo
Member

@ mother1

ive seen you use this argument too many times, and i have to point it out to you, it's invalid for the following reason:

There are more 35's in the game than any other level, above level 10. sure there are numerous abandoned level 1-10 throughout the game, and so for the reason, we shall disregard them. when you are level 30-31, you are guaranteed 4/5 battles against level 35's because there are so many of them. when i play 1v1, i have a broader range of player bellow me as a 34, than above, but guess what: i still play level 35's more than 50% of the time, because of how many of them there are. the argument that at high levels there are less players is true, but not about max level, and therefore i think in contrast to your argument a simple 3 level difference will suffice. only because by 5 levels, you are literally giving the win to the higher level, which is completely unfair. is it really fair to be given fast games at the cost that you are guaranteed to lose at least 3/5 in case you get that lucky to one 1/4...?
when you play 2v2 at level 30, yes you will find a greater volume of 35's than other other level, because there are so many of them.

at the same time or everyone else:
i had a post like this myself at some point. forget it. they should have to change it cause you cant deal with losses. its a game. get over yourselves. its a bunch of numbers on a screen. grow up. there are numerous other ways you can maintain a positive ratio, all it takes a little commitment and time:

try building a supportive 2v2 player with a good tank, that can a llow a 35 to live long enough to get the win, and rage for 1 source of big damage
try jugging until 33. its easy and effective.

wanna know what isnt effective?
complaining that youre losing too much. thats the single thing that wont get you anywhere.
good luck, and battle on
AQW Epic  Post #: 10
10/14/2013 22:56:42   
wireclub1990
Banned

 
quote:


at the same time or everyone else:
i had a post like this myself at some point. forget it. they should have to change it cause you cant deal with losses. its a game. get over yourselves. its a bunch of numbers on a screen. grow up. there are numerous other ways you can maintain a positive ratio, all it takes a little commitment and time:
quote:




Nope they have to change it to make people more active they have to change it so the servers aren't ghost towns . Simply put they have to change this and a few other things to save the game

< Message edited by wireclub1990 -- 10/14/2013 22:57:52 >
Post #: 11
10/14/2013 23:02:23   
toopygoo
Member

@ wireclub

first off, fix your post. you should edit mistakes that big before publishing

next: this would ahve no impact on getting old players back but rather the opposite. they dont care about their lower levels, they care about a game which they have wrapped aroud their sitcky little fingers. there are lists of things they want:

higher levels
NPS battles
Old war system
old flag system
old arcade
old battle and upgrade system
old jugg system

what these old players dont like is the fact that they can no longer buy their way into the winners circle but rather have to battle their way through hordes of other players to maintain their rank: in essence, they played a PVP cause they they found a way to jump to the head of the line and have to put zero thinking into developping winning builds, because it all just fell into their laps with a pile of money.

that is what old players want, not equality.
AQW Epic  Post #: 12
10/14/2013 23:41:53   
Mother1
Member

@ Toopygoo

I think you mean NPC battles not NPS battles. However the old war system compared to this new one was vastly better for the following reasons.

1 It doesn't feel like everyday game play with cheevos
2 It has an objective
3 it has a set time period
4 The cheevos were actually worth the rating they gave

Also I disagree with your statement about some older players or at least myself. back then I became varium to escape being a punching bag as did a lot of my old friends who used to play. Not everyone became varium to pick on weaker players.

As for your other post answer me this.

If we have so many level 35's why aren't they fighting each other instead of lower levels? Please answer me that one. Case if we had so many level 35's in the game along with the way the battle engine is set up, there would be no complaints from lower levels getting fights mismatched at level 30-32 now would we? They would be fighting against their own levels and there would be no complaint threads like this and so many others.

Also your post sounds like it is taking both sides. At one moment you are telling me that is needed to make higher levels suffer for lower levels by cutting their already small level range, then you go and tell everyone else to get over it, it is just a game, and find a better build.

From what I been reading in the forums and from the staff they didn't do anything because there are two sides to this, and they aren't going to just do something to please one side that will upset the other or did you forget when the first legion vs exile filter came in? Cause I remember when that came in the forums were complaining more about wait times than they were about level range. Which goes to show that there are people who want to get their fights and not be forced to wait which is what your suggestion of cutting the level range will do.

A compromise needs to be made that will make both sides happy, and cutting the level range as you suggested isn't a compromise it siding with one side at the expense of another.
Epic  Post #: 13
10/15/2013 0:07:05   
wireclub1990
Banned

 

 Don't wanna pay to get ahead of the line I just want most of my battles to be fair not unfair . I want my record to reflect how good I am not how lucky I am in battle and how lucky I am partner wise.

another point all the old guys left most of the ones who spent money constantly the fact that the server numbers have dramatically decreased suggest they've not returned and no ones replaced them , so who's paying to keep the lights switched on ? yeah no one . AE is clearly losing interest updates are few and far between and very weak when they do come out clearly efforts are being focused on other games. If this is to be changed we need change fast omega was a bad move . Fairness is needed and balance.
Post #: 14
10/15/2013 1:54:55   
ValkyrieKnight
Member

I know this issue has been brought up countless times but man yesterday I jumped on my 32 mercenary and fighting the same people that I fought on my 35 BM made me livid. It seems like level advantage does more damage in Omega than it does in Delta because of copy cat builds. I've seen players using the same 35 builds even at the early 20s, its ridiculous.
AQW Epic  Post #: 15
10/15/2013 2:17:26   
Mother1
Member

@ Valkyrieknight

That is one thing no one has control over but the players themselves. If they choose to use the same builds then there is nothing we can do about that.
Epic  Post #: 16
10/15/2013 10:02:35   
ED Divine Darkness
Member

ehh, looks like his game is sorta falling down, but i dont want it to close. it isnt epicduels fault that most of the players are from the earlier stages and are at level cap because of how long they have been playing. look, at lvl 30 1v1 and 2v2 is harder BUT jugg is atleast 20x easier. save up for jugg and keep jugging. also for 2v2 i recommend merc.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 17
10/15/2013 17:12:08   
toopygoo
Member

@ mother,

yes about the NPC instead of NPS.

Youre right about the cheevos, but however i doubt that that was what really tied most old players down: im sure it would be effective on maybe 5-6 players to return for a better cheevos system, but the actually majority played for other reasons, and that was the POWER that came with Varium :P i cant blame them tbh, cause i always wanted to get some, and i bought for the time in OMEGA and it felt like a bit of a waste :/

about the next part: i may have misunderstood, but nontheless i am trying to respond to what i got out of that :$ its been a long day of reaing so words are starting to flow together on the computer >.<

ok, so if you are telling me that as a 35 you arent playing very many 35's then i would say the system has be to be changed to lower level differences becasue of that, because as a level 30-34, majority of the people i have played (as in more than 50%) were level 35's, and thus this would mean that currently, 35's are playing level 30-32's mainly instead of their own level. im sure there would be a bit of a lag for if this was implemented for a days, but the pattern would continue, soon after that.
however here is what i propose to fix that:

battle finding system changes based on how full the server is:
when it is full then a max level difference of 3 is implemented, and as it decreases, it can increase up to a 5 level difference, depending on how many player remain at a server. i find that at 600 players a 1v1 can be started within 5 seconds of pressing a "find a battle" button, and i have no complaints whatsoever. this could be decreased to 4 levels in my opinion for testing purposes, and if it doesnt work, it can be reverted. this should please both parties to some extent without having drastic effects on the the current waiting times.


also in response to your last comment about picking on both sides:
i am on your side about this, i dont think that the level difference should be decreased for the purpose of pleasing players who feel losing is bad. i'm against the idea of giving players what they want because they are sore losers.
however i felt that the argument i have seen you use, was invalid, and thus as a Samaritan decided to speak my mind. all in all this is my point of view on this entire thread:

the player base still provides enough players for a fast games frequently, however i feel it is not fair to give players what they demand based on the fact that they are having a tough time dealing with the idea of losing. however i decided to give them some tips on how to overcome losing and that is as far as i am willing to go to give them what they want in this matter.

hope that clears everything up. if i was unclear in any way, feel free to pm me :)
AQW Epic  Post #: 18
10/15/2013 19:40:58   
wireclub1990
Banned

 

 Losing is fine entering a fight knowing they have a far better chance of winning then you do from go isn't . a 29 +35 vs 35+35 is not reasonable or fair I want the fight to be fair to the extent my partners damage isn't lowered due to the level diff block chance deflect etc etc , I want the stat points on each side to be reasonably close the base damage on weps armour points I want the fight not to be vastly scaled against me. That's not having a hard time losing that's having a hard being given a knife for a gun fight. The biggest problem I have with this is I find myself in this situation more then I'm not

< Message edited by wireclub1990 -- 10/15/2013 19:43:08 >
Post #: 19
10/15/2013 20:03:56   
toopygoo
Member

if you have no problem with losing as you claim, then you wouldn't care about the point in time when you discover you have lost, now would you? you could always invest in a juggernaut card. juggernaut is the easiest at level 29-32, so you can skip that whole phase if youre so intent
AQW Epic  Post #: 20
10/15/2013 20:13:44   
Mother1
Member

@ Wireclub1990

Matches are not all about levels no matter how much you try to stress that. There are many factors that you must add in which many low levels that make these kinds of threads seem to forget.

1 Build advantage

This right here can make or break you. When I was used my lower level accounts I was able to beat players with a level advantage over me due to me having a build advantage over them or if I did lose make it where it was close. I can't stress this factor enough. Build advantage can well make up for being at a level disadvantage and this is fact.

2 Who goes first

As it stands right now this factor depending on build can make or break you big time. Especially with those strength support builds that depend on going first otherwise they will have problems. Depending on what build you use going first gives you the chance to set up the flow of the battle and makes the person going 2nd go at your pace not their own. While this isn't as big a factor in 1 vs 1 depending on circumstance in 2 vs 2 this can make or break much more especially if number one on the list is combined with this factor in your favor.

3 How you use what you got as well as work with your partner

This factors in a lot in many 2 vs 2 fights as well as 1 vs 1 fights (Minus the partner part for 1 vs 1) The two of us can be higher levels but if we aren't working together and playing smart we can very well lose to two lower levels who are doing this correctly. I don't know how many times I beat players who weren't paying attention to what I could do, or were arguing with each other instead of working together which is the foundation of 2 vs 2. In fact many lower levels I have beaten when I had level advantage could have very well have beaten me if they used one move to stop my plan instead of attacking me hoping to knock me out. This also goes for 1 vs 1 minus the partner part.

4 Luck factors

While this can't be controlled these factors can change the tide of any duel the way they are now. One block, deflection, crit, or stun can either make you win or lose depending on what is happening since these can take a defensive team off defense and let them switch to offense, or put an offensive team on defense.

TL:DR

Levels while they can play some role don't completely decide if you win or lose. It is how you play, and what happens during the duel does. If everyone is just going to moan and groan saying "I can't win because I always face higher level opponents!" Or just run without even trying to fight them then of course you are going to lose. Use what you got, work with your partner, and play the game smart and you will stand a much better chance of winning.
Epic  Post #: 21
10/15/2013 20:24:36   
toopygoo
Member

approved ^^

i cant stress 3 and 4 enough. those two are in my opinion what decide a game.

AQW Epic  Post #: 22
10/15/2013 21:15:12   
toopygoo
Member

RELAX XD

you do realize, that everyone you are talking to in here has gone through the exact same thing you are currently going on about... right?
the reason we say this, is we can speak from experience about this stage of your gaming, and really all you can do is put up through it.
the reason your not gonna win this, isnt cause we dont care, its cause we know what its like, and that regardless of what you it feels like, its not going to have any drastic effects on your life. time for a list of toopy's "What Won't Happen":

-you wont lose and arm and a leg due to losing in ED
-you wont be left to starve to death, homeless, due to losing in ED
-you wont get rejected from a college or university due to losing in ED
-you wont get ditched by your fiancée the day of your wedding due to losing in ED
-you wont lose your eyesight, sense of taste, sense of touch, sense of smell, or hearing due to losing in ED
-your house wont burn down due to losing in ED
-you wont develop cancer due to losing in ED (too soon? )
-you wont end up getting stabbed to death in a back alley due to losing in ED

and my personal favourite:
-you wont end up being the lone survivor of a zombie apocalypse in an alternate dimension where people have intercourse by shaking hands, and you live there for 5 years, without learning this, so you develop a rare form of AIDS and suffer an alien form of a deadly disease until your very last day of life, when your mate tells you he/she is actually the same gender as you, and has been infact forcing your children, dog, and goldfish to do naughty things to her under your very nose for the past 7 years, and when you die you realize that it was al a dream and it hasnt actually happened yet, but then in 7 years it becomes an actual reality so you go through all this hell twice, then you die again and stub your toe at the pearly gates, and spill your drink, due to losing in ED



_____________________________
AQW Epic  Post #: 23
10/15/2013 21:41:44   
wireclub1990
Banned

 

 you missed something off the list

a game wont last long that cant get enough people to play to offer a fair gaming experience for all revenue will start to decline along with players . But I don't need to tell you this observation is all that's needed right now.
Post #: 24
10/15/2013 21:51:32   
Mother1
Member

@ Toopygoo

His chain of thought is this

He doesn't care if he loses every single fight as long as in his mind he believes he got a fair fight. And a fair fight in his mind is having levels the same or as close to the same as possible. In his mind he believe making all matches as fair as possible level wise is the best solution here and our words isn't going to change that even if we and many other players here can speak from experience.

@ wireclub1990

Let me ask this to you than. Why is it only now that the game is showing decreasing number and not in any of the other phases? Cause lord knows in Alpha-Delta the gaming experience wasn't fair either. Back then there was varium advantage tipping the scales, overpowered classes, Enhancements that varium players could get easy Etc while Non variums couldn't and yet with all that unfair power advantage the game has made it to this point.

Shouldn't the game have crashed and burned back then? Especially with Non varium players being the mass majority back then with Varium players being a minority?
Epic  Post #: 25
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