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RE: Matching 2v2

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10/29/2013 17:36:33   
TheRandomGuyYouSee
Member

Yeah, I think this has gotten enough comments. Too many for me to want to read, at least.
Post #: 51
11/13/2013 21:15:59   
K E N D R A
Member
 

 I like the idea of having NPCs in 2v2, but here's how I would do it.

First of all, an NPC with a random build would most likely be pretty useless compared to a player with a well thought out one. Builds could either be random or they could be chosen from preset ones. This would be an issue as well though, since it would be too easy to predict their build and counter it.

Also I think that the players on each side would always attack the human player first before dealing with the useless NPC. This would pretty much end up being 1v1 with 2 dummies. And what would happen after the player on one side dies? Would the match end or would it continue even when one side has nobody controlling it?

Here's what I think would be best:

NPC partners would copy the builds of players who fought 2v2 in the last day or so. This would solve the problem of NPC builds being random or too predictable.

Instead of being controlled by the computer, they would be controlled by the player. This would make 2v2 wins depend more on the skills of the player instead of depending on the skills of their partner or on the randomly chosen moves of an NPC.

Another difference with this system is that it would be impossible for a player to fight against 2 NPCs, since nobody would be controlling them. If a player were able to fight 2 NPCs, it would be possible to get easy wins simply by playing at a time when few people are on the server to increase the chances of this happening.

The level range for 2v2 would be lowered to maybe a 3 level difference between sides, and NPCs would only be used after around 20 seconds of searching. This would create much better matchups and maybe even shorten the wait time.

Perfect for everyone right?
Post #: 52
11/13/2013 21:27:49   
Dual Thrusters
Member

@Kendra

It's not an NPC if you can control it :/

And it wouldn't be 2v2 if only 2 Humans were fighting against each other.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 53
11/13/2013 21:44:05   
K E N D R A
Member
 

 I just called it an NPC for lack of a better word.

And it wouldn't be 2v2 either if there were actual NPC partners instead of ones controlled by the player. Would u rather have a partner you can't control or one that you can? Being in control would certainly be less frustrating.
Post #: 54
11/13/2013 23:10:25   
Dual Thrusters
Member

After re-reading, I just realized that this would turn into a 1v1 slaughter (Like with the Str/Supp TMs)

The time limit should be like 2 minutes before something drastic like NPCs would be added into the match. And the NPCs should have like a Caden/Big Tuna/Snork difficulty (at the level's respective difficulty). I think it would be fine if the match was still like a normal 2v2.

And there should be a notification that NPCs would be added to the battle after 2 minutes. It would then give you the option to either accept the match, or exit. That way players won't be forced to fight NPCs if they don't want to.







MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 55
11/14/2013 12:02:50   
kaierti1
Banned


 jugg battle and 2 v 2 are destroyed. i won 5 and lose 6 or 7 in 2 vs 2. its so bad. cause i am 36 lvl. i cant get pleasure in 2 v 2
Post #: 56
11/14/2013 17:14:00   
Noobatron x3000
Member

Yeah the 2v2 player base is on the brink of extinction due to messed up match making its sad.

But probably wont be fixed which will lead to more people abandoning 2v2 and the wait times/ mix matches getting even worse then they already are .

And yes mother with matches already hard to find why adjust the range ?

Because the range is the exact reason most of the player base wont touch 2v2 anymore!
Post #: 57
11/14/2013 17:42:37   
Mother1
Member

@ Noobatron

Which will result in longer wait times which will also cause people to quit.

As it is right now we have a filter that pair what side you are on over your level range. I don't know how many times I have seen pairings mismatched because of this filter. I also noticed that all the complaints about this sky rocketed even more than before.

Seriously my last 2 vs 2 match was me and another 36 vs's 2 level 33's. I was seriously thinking and even said out to them, "you can blame this mismatch on the legion vs exile filter" the moment I saw the 2 level 33's were legion and me and my partner were exile.

Many of the mismatches have been because of this filter and personally I still say it need to go. Without it there would be a much larger player pool, and mismatched fights would happen less.
Epic  Post #: 58
11/14/2013 20:37:22   
Noobatron x3000
Member

was creating matchmaking issues far to often before the legion exile filter no halve fixes needs to be done properly or 2v2 will surely die .

Post #: 59
11/14/2013 21:11:41   
Mother1
Member

@ Noobatron

As said before and 2 vs 2 will also die if you don't get opponents to fight either. People will just rage quit due to wait times as this has happened before. Everyone keeps suggesting the same solution which will have negative backlash.

Take a look at what happened when they put quantity over quality. we have the problem we have now. People complaining about fair fights and not getting them.

Cutting the level range is also a Halve fix as well.

Why because it will still cause the same problem meaning fair fights won't be happening since there will still be a level gap. In order for fair fights to happen the level gap needs to go so everyone fights their same level 100% of the time. That is the only way I can see everyone getting fair fights.

Otherwise as mentioned before the problem will still exist, and those who hate waiting will be the ones punished the most.
Epic  Post #: 60
11/16/2013 18:43:40   
Elite Tuga
Member

I agree with Mother 1.

2V2 is so inadequate in matching level's making the low levels rage quit do to intimidation & hopelessness, thus ruining fun for all.
Only way to solve this issue is if Titan/ED staff changed the system & rather our level gaps ranging from 1-5 making it 0. Over all we'd be fighting against exact levels & game play would be fair like never before (Like Mother1 stated above).

My idea:
We could have a 'forum public vote' for this & whatever the results would become the outcome about this subject.
Epic  Post #: 61
11/16/2013 20:58:18   
Dual Thrusters
Member

@Tuga

That won't work because there are only 20-ish forum members, and roughly 800 online players at the same time.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 62
11/17/2013 11:05:17   
Altador987
Member

uhhh the low levels arent usually the ones rage quitting in the unfair matches they might complain but usually it's the higher lvled partner that quits, and instead of lvl gap being 0 why not 3 lvls instead, if it seems possible in a 1on1 it should work in a 2on2

exp: a lvl 30 beating a lvl 33 is maybe a little difficult but not impossible and most matches tend to be close... but a 30 beating a lvl 35 is usually only a result in horrid stats on the lvl 35's part and if i can't come close in a 1on1 how would come close while fighting against possibly 2 of those no matter how good my partner is, and while even a 30 and 35 vs 2 35's isn't impossible it's more a miracle than anything else
AQW Epic  Post #: 63
11/17/2013 12:40:14   
Elite Tuga
Member

@ Dual Thrusters

OK, how about an in-game public vote made by Rabblefroth, that should do it!
Epic  Post #: 64
11/17/2013 12:46:03   
kaierti1
Banned


 i think best way will be this: 1. destroy this war exile vs legions. 2. now difference is 7 lvl in 2 vs 2 (30lvl, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36) count its 7. and will be good if difference will be only 4 lvl (33lvl, 34, 35, 36) because 30, 31 and 32 lvl partners are so weak when u have. 3. who will leave and run 5 or many times he will be banned for some days!!! (im saying on ur partner)

look i have 30 lvl partner and i lose 90% http://image.geotorrents.com/images/18387846235691787550.png

< Message edited by kaierti1 -- 11/17/2013 12:51:15 >
Post #: 65
11/17/2013 14:16:31   
Mother1
Member

@ altador987

I see many lower levels run because of this. Has happened to me several times because they want fights they think they can win. Also what works for 1 vs 1 doesn't work for 2 vs 2. These are two completely different battle moves, and as Noobatron said if we are going to make a solution let not do a half solution.

Cutting the level range would just be a half solution because unfair fights would still happen. WHile they would happen less often they would still happen, and there are people who complain even when they have a disadvantage of 3. Removing the level range altogether would silence this completely.
Epic  Post #: 66
11/17/2013 14:25:28   
Altador987
Member

@ mother1
it would but the fact that most people only want to win and if faced against an even match can't will simply leave as those who relied on the powers of varium in the era of the varium player did, personally i don't have a problem with that idea at all as i love fairness and a good match i even prefer a challenge over a match i know i can when from the beginning but a lot of people don't think that way at all
AQW Epic  Post #: 67
11/17/2013 14:26:18   
axell5
Member

but removing level range would make searches for 2v2 loooong but i gues if they remve the filter and make at max 2 levels range there won't be a problem no?
AQ DF MQ Epic  Post #: 68
11/17/2013 14:31:09   
Altador987
Member

that's why i suggested 3 because it wont be such a huge wait and then the level difference wont be so extreme: only 8 stat points and 2 skills of difference
AQW Epic  Post #: 69
11/17/2013 14:40:35   
Mother1
Member

@ Altador987

If that is the cause then they need to do the following.

1 Stop running and actually fight. You never know what will happen in a fight and there have been times all of us have won when the odds weren't in our favor. But no most of them look at the levels as say "I am out of here because I can't win." when they don't even know that.

I have said this before and I will say it again. Build advantage can make up for level disadvantage. I don't know how many times I have won with a lower level partner because our builds worked together and/or had a build advantage against our opponents we could exploit. But sadly those runners will never know this if they just keep running away, then come running here complaining.

As it is now there are two sides to this. Those who want fair fights, and those who don't want to for fights. those who want fair fights say to those who don't like waiting "why are you complaining for you are waiting for a fair fight." when the people who don't want to wait mention that. this wouldn't be so bad if there was a player base to support it but guess what? We don't have that. So all cutting the level range would do is punish those who don't like waiting and it won't even be a solution to this problem.

So I look at it like this. If you are going to actually make wait times longer for those who want fair fights, actually solve the problem and don't do as half solution which is what cutting the level range would be instead of removing it.
Epic  Post #: 70
11/17/2013 14:47:24   
Altador987
Member

i understand and agree with you but shoulds and coulds and woulds dont make too much of a difference it what is and isn't and while i'm sure the admins want total fairness they are also people who work hard to see their labor appreciated and a good bunch of people who appreciate dont want fair fights so they have to cater to them as well, a sad yet unfortunate truth... but in all honesty i hit me just how much potential this game has while using my bh, as i've been fighting a lot of the "op" tech mages at lvl 36 with my lvl 33 and while i still lose the match was a lot closer than it's ever been and i had fun at the slight possibility of winning... and if they can balance the other classes completely then i think eventually the lvl differences wont matter as much as winning and losing wont be based on whose higher and lower but who has better strategy and even which team's set of skills blend better i really think this game could become a classic to the point where it could be more popular than aqw
AQW Epic  Post #: 71
11/18/2013 7:26:06   
kaierti1
Banned


 2 vs 2 now sucks. i cant win 12 pvp wins in 2 hours. this is so bullsht. do something ed admins. change something why are u sleeping
Post #: 72
11/18/2013 9:46:17   
Stabilis
Member

This is about the fifth time I have suggested this:

When a player in 2V2 is KO'd, that team gains the solo perk. That means they get the turn that the KO'd partner would usually get. So they would have double the turns.

If A & B were fighting C & D, and C is KO'd, the turn order becomes this:

A

D

B

D

A

D

B

Etc...

D gets twice as many turns, but in terms of cooldown and warmup, 2 solo turns only count as 1 normal turn.
AQ Epic  Post #: 73
11/18/2013 11:00:04   
Altador987
Member

that defeats the purpose of a 2on2 not even jugg's get that 2on2 is about teamwork if you can't listen to your partner, they lag out (whatever reason) that's the risk of 2on2 if you can't handle the risk then learn to fight 1on1 and win in that arena, giving the solo player 2 turns would defeat the purpose of trying to kill someone's partner as you don't get the advantage of then taking out the next partner quicker that's the whole point
AQW Epic  Post #: 74
11/18/2013 11:23:38   
Stabilis
Member

quote:

that defeats the purpose of a 2on2


quote:

giving the solo player 2 turns would defeat the purpose of trying to kill someone's partner as you don't get the advantage of then taking out the next partner quicker that's the whole point


How would that defeat the purpose? Even if they team with 2 players does not gain a turn advantage, the solo player is limited to their skill set and is treated like they have normal turns. You can choose who you want to KO first, and that leaves the weaker duelist to fight solo. This turn feature is used in a couple games, and it works.
AQ Epic  Post #: 75
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