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RE: Tech Mage Caster OP!

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11/9/2013 20:12:14   
CivilAE
Member

Well you know, it just real sour working so hard to deplete someones energy and paying so much to do so with no gain on the long run. Seeing a TM conjure +40 out of thin air, and static giving back about five takes its toll. Battery gives up a turn yes but in turn you have an assortment of different choices (anything not on cooldown) you could pull to keep the battle swinging your way. Cyber just matches poorly against casters now I'd think since armor is now a waste of a turn and it was the only granted resistance against all of the TM's attacks for a end game stall win.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 26
11/9/2013 20:14:17   
lionblades
Member

quote:

I feel your comment is extremely biased just because you're a TM

I agree with you CivilAE

Also in general Battery back is way to strong for TM too have, this with assimilation makes TM casters especially OP. And obviously the only build for they use because of this update is caster TM- OP. All other builds nerfed lool. Yet another way to decrease variety (at least before there was str BM, Tech BH, Static Merc, TLM surgical azrael)--now all of these lose to TM caster without luck.

@Mother1
I notice your main is a TM. It is impossible since so many builds got nerfed yet again with caster mages having a serious buff from this update. Also, I have tried str as a TLM and high str is needed which lowers all stats sometimes Tm block 50% of my strikes because of this. Str does not counter TM and EMP/Static is useless since TM instantly assimilation and they HEAL LOOPING is way to easy to abuse

Unless devs do not see this I am going to change into a TM since I see some people having 90% or higher ratios because of this update. Only build they have a hard time against is another TM.
AQW  Post #: 27
11/9/2013 20:18:48   
Dual Thrusters
Member

@Civil

What are you talking about? Just Spam EMP and rage Static Charge. Battery is no match for EMP's 2 turn cooldown. Just make sure your EMP can drain at least 50 EP.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 28
11/9/2013 20:25:33   
lionblades
Member

@Dual
Battery gives about 40-45 energy and after an EMP, caster mages have assimilation which is about 20 energy. Plus while you are EMPing and wasting a turn, the caster mage is on the offensive. And static charge is pretty useless to a TM since it does not drain energy.
AQW  Post #: 29
11/9/2013 20:26:11   
CivilAE
Member

@DualThrusters That's what I've been doing, but I've been trying to work on a universal build, my EP is only draining about 44 atm. I do well against them for the most part, until extra's (Poison Bot) come out. I'll be trying out the new cores once I get enough for them, but I'm short since I've been inactive for awhile.

The conjunction with Assimilation is the growing pain in my hindquarters.

< Message edited by CivilAE -- 11/9/2013 20:27:53 >
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 30
11/9/2013 20:32:42   
Elite Tuga
Member

@ CivilAE

My point is in the past, passive or non-passive, Blood Mages were OP for way too long (2 years ago) & know one trolled & complained to do any changes on forums during that whole time like they are now with Tech's these last 48 hrs. Now that's biased.

@ Mother1 & Ambien: I agree with your last comments.

Players in this community just have to think outside the box, we've only had this last update not long ago & i'm sure that with time people will adapt, iv'e seen good builds beating the so alleged 'OP Tank Tech Mage build' & that shows that we Tech's ain't OP bcz we also have weaknesses, no class can beat all. (It's like the triangle effect). If Tech's get nerfed, Mercenaries will be by far the best class so nerfing Tech's alone 'won't' help balance classes!!!!!


Ps: 100% Agree with you 'Dual Thrusters.'

< Message edited by Elite Tuga -- 11/9/2013 20:35:51 >
Epic  Post #: 31
11/9/2013 20:35:42   
Dual Thrusters
Member

@Lionblades

Cyber isn't a class where you abuse just 1 stat, you know you have other attacks as well ._.

That would even be better if you had energy draining cores.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 32
11/9/2013 20:43:22   
CivilAE
Member

@EliteTuga Alright well I don't have the experience to point out or to say you're wrong because I was apart of the alleged CH group then (was a tech mage for 2 months before). Alright if you want to keep such a skill then fine, but all the other classes need to be brung up to par as well.

The current turn count between CH (Emp&static charge) and TM on terms of cool-down is 1 VS 2 turns. Assimilation has a joined energy gain rate (with stealing) with Battery Backup to make it a 1 turn difference at most(4-3). I think adding a turn is the best solution.

< Message edited by CivilAE -- 11/9/2013 21:23:53 >
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 33
11/9/2013 20:56:00   
ED Divine Darkness
Member

quote:

Strength builds still beat them. Most people are having trouble with casters now because they lost the ability to control their energy.

Remember before this a TM's energy was controlled by their opponent and wasn't given back in such large amounts. Now because reroute is gone, the opponent no longer has that control which in turn has buffed TM.

Also if anything it is only caster TM's that got buffed. any other TM build out there got nerfed since reroute and deadly aim was removed. So TM as a whole is not overpowered.


no tank can control their hp well right now, so str builds demolish tank. just make a 110 hp build with 16-20str damage+ and good dex. then just kill some tanks. the only build that is beating me, is bm and bh str.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 34
11/9/2013 21:16:42   
Elite Tuga
Member

@ CivilAE - I Respect your last opinion.

@ ED Divine Darkness - Exactly my point from earlier that Tech's ain't OP. This subject should be burried especially considering now that STR builds are now competing well against the Mages.

All on all the only 'CHANGES' that should be made in game is improve slightly 'static charge' for Cybers & 'MOST OF ALL' the mode 2v2 levels match up system.
It's so unfair I'm a level 36 & I get partners as low as levels 29 - 31 just because the opposite players are example level 34's, thus I & many others lose a lot of battles.
Epic  Post #: 35
11/9/2013 21:21:21   
Mother1
Member

@ Civilae

Do you have any idea how it felt before this to take punishment for energy only for someone to hit you with an EMP, Static smash or some other drainer to get rid if it in one go? Do you think that wasn't annoying for TM's who had reroute giving them small bits of energy, and Assimalation which couldn't compare drain wise to other energy drainer/destroyers?

@ Lionblades

Ever hear of a battle mage? You know the non caster kind? Well those are the builds I am talking about that were nerfed. Strength support TM was nerfed when Deadly aim was taken away. Strength Tm took a nerf because deadly aim is gone and the new move doesn't sync with malfuction like an energy side arm with Deadly aim can. My build which is a hybrid build to a hard nerf because I lost both Deadly aim and reroute. For my build Reroute works better for me then back up battery because I would get energy back on attacks and I wouldn't waste a turn using something to get my energy back. That may not sound like much but for someone who isn't a tank caster this update nerfed them.

Plus because of this update my build has a much harder time against casters as a non caster TM. Before I could have control over their energy return and prevent them from using their big attacks. Now that they have something out of my control I can drain their energy quick enough and I get hit hard with their big attacks or they heal against me when before I couldn't.

If you don't believe me play as a non caster TM and try you luck against a caster TM and you will see how hard TM's that aren't casters got nerfed because of this change.

< Message edited by Mother1 -- 11/9/2013 21:23:27 >
Epic  Post #: 36
11/9/2013 21:32:35   
CivilAE
Member

^Yes, I do because I was a TechMage. At the wrong time maybe when enhances and such were available to cover up holes, but since I've believe TM to be one of the most all around balanced classes. I had a focus caster build then so their wasn't really anything I couldn't do. Emp has a cost of a turn and energy, battery backup still gets something out of nothing. (not only that you do get assimilation as a security blanket).
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 37
11/9/2013 21:32:48   
lionblades
Member

@Mother1
That is exactly why I am only talking about caster mages.
AQW  Post #: 38
11/9/2013 21:47:33   
Mother1
Member

@LIonblades

Then how about making a change that will affect caster mages, but leave the rest alone? Many builds that weren't overused got unfair nerfs because they happened to be tied to the the same class as an overused build.

People are crying for nerfs that will affect ALL class builds not just the ones they are 9/10 having trouble beating.

@ civilae

I am talking about just before this update not that far back. Whenever I faced merc's or any other energy draining class I would take a beating to get back energy, only for said class to throw an EMP or some other energy destroyer or in merc's case energy transfer to take it. Even with Assimilation even if you are abusing strength and have it maxed out EMP, at level one Static smash at a decent level, as well as atom smasher at a decent level still outclassed. it.
Epic  Post #: 39
11/9/2013 21:57:11   
CivilAE
Member

@Mother1 Well you'll have to pardon me for bringing a personal experience into this, I had hoped it would be overlooked it being such. I'd only hope that it aided what I was getting at, that the turn count between EMP is still a step behind TM's Assimilation, Battery Backup combo. As it's been said before both counter each other as is.

< Message edited by CivilAE -- 11/9/2013 21:58:16 >
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 40
11/10/2013 0:07:52   
NDB
Member

I definitely agree that TM caster builds are overpowered due to this update. They are simply not affected enough by the passives to active change. While all the other builds suffered a great nerf, TM casters simply stayed the same if not slightly better because of the Battery Backup skill. I have four main accounts: 35 BM, 35 TLM, 35 BH, 34 CH, as well as two lower level accounts: 29 Merc and 28 TM. I get to play with all six classes, and so far all my acounts' builds have been totally ruined EXCEPT my TM account. Although he is only lv 28, I did several battles with around 90% win rate while beating 33s with ease.
Epic  Post #: 41
11/10/2013 0:28:42   
GearzHeadz
Member

The battery backup gives probably more energy than they would normally gain 4 turns with reroute.
I mean for real 49 energy? That is nearly a complete recharge on energy...

< Message edited by GearzHeadz -- 11/10/2013 0:48:31 >
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 42
11/10/2013 1:17:57   
Noobatron x3000
Member

^ emp it away or put up a energy shield which makes all but one offensive skill on the tm tree pretty useless. assuming you don't have no tech.

and since most tech mages are rolling at best 11-14 primary / secondary

bludgeon isn't much threat to anyone .

So yeah what this thread is asking for is to kill the only viable build tm's have going for them.

And it isn't even that good its flawed as hell your main damage can be screwed by a shield / emp if placed correctly .

< Message edited by Noobatron x3000 -- 11/10/2013 1:23:35 >
Post #: 43
11/10/2013 1:19:46   
GearzHeadz
Member

You can run out of energy for emp. Their 49 energy points can be gained back every 4 turns. They have good def and res, and they can outlast you.
And its 2 skills, fire scythe and bludgeon.

< Message edited by GearzHeadz -- 11/10/2013 1:20:13 >
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 44
11/10/2013 1:24:12   
Mother1
Member

@ gearheadz

rage still works best with constant attackers which is why strength builds can take on casters with defenses. you hit those builds with your high offense scoring moderate damage, and due to their defenses you get rage fast. When you get that rage they are screwed. Energy is only good if you can actually use it with your skills and a strength build's damage output and rage gain is stronger than an tank casters.
Epic  Post #: 45
11/10/2013 1:26:43   
Noobatron x3000
Member

^ I actually remember this phase in beta except it was the heal looping mages and strength bhes ED's darkest hour honestly.

Back then AE hadn't come in and yeah no one was playing like 200 lol .

Funny how things always tend to go backwards not forwards this set up attracted no player base back then .

Sign of things to come ?
Post #: 46
11/10/2013 4:36:49   
Sensei Chan
Member

I like how these idiots who don't agree with me are probably defending there "OP" class
Epic  Post #: 47
11/10/2013 5:35:36   
Pemberton
Member
 

 My advice to the BALANCE TEAM of Epicduel is to make their OWN EXPERIENCE balance adjustments. If you will base your balance updates on the forums or from the players,
most of it will be biased for their OWN class. Play the game or have a balance team of neutral players. DO NOT ask about balance from class jumpers, build copiers or players who
instantly abuse imbalance.
Post #: 48
11/10/2013 5:43:06   
Noobatron x3000
Member

Thing is their are 2 builds in game at the minute

casters
and hardcore strength abuse

Both OP in their own way you either nerf both or nerf neither otherwise you are defeating the purpose of a balance update removing one giant to replace it with another that is clearly going to take its place.

That's assuming you class a caster as op with cooldowns on spells all energy moves and reliant on energy to work . batterie requires killing a turn .

Where as the strength builds can continuously bombard massive damage with no need to worry who's really OP?
Post #: 49
11/10/2013 5:57:23   
Ranloth
Banned


 People should actually think a little. TMs are not overpowered, that is one. What you can blame them for making too strong (beatable but special circumstances) is the Battery which needs adjustments - NOT the damage skills used by Casters. They were fine with Reroute, but aren't with Battery. What are you going to blame - Battery or just nerf the build into oblivion?

All that needs to be done is Battery being toned down by a little, not a major nerf. You want balance, not destroy the skill completely. By altering Battery, you will essentially nerf Casters but they will still deal same damage. All they will lose is higher Energy return (or just not THAT high) and they still have Assimilation. Energy control isn't an issue for TMs, at all.
AQ Epic  Post #: 50
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