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RE: Static Grenade

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11/18/2013 22:38:47   
GearzHeadz
Member

It actually scales almost exactly, if the merc puts in enough str points. The difference is its blockable.

< Message edited by GearzHeadz -- 11/18/2013 22:39:08 >
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 101
11/18/2013 22:39:51   
Altador987
Member

when i said almost 100 tech one can infer it could be in the 90's ergo almost 100 tech when one says basically 40 you can't assume anything as basically is not used for measurement but since we shall be specific my tech is at 94... and while i will repeat myself i shall point out that you have avoided actually giving a reason by simply trying to switch the attention to my argument i'd like to make sure you're aware of that fact. the reason i believe it's fine the way it is is due to the fact that with smoke and emp dependent on tech, multi and stun dependent on dex, both shields being dependent on support, and massacre and cheapshot dependent on strength, mark of blood dependent on attack power as a whole, and shadow arts dependent on defense as a whole, which leaves heal and poison to be the only two unaffected skills you have 2 skills per category which gives bh an even skill set. You don't have to only focus on one stat or two to be decent you can focus on three and even all four and still have decent hp and compete well as a whole, mind you wins in my book does not equal competing well, it means being able to have generally close matches with most and maybe every so often the obvious one-sided match... i can't see a huge point in nerfing the emp because most player dont have a butt-load of mp to begin with and if you have 130 tech at max emp lvl i wouldn't know how much that'd take but there'd eventually be no point in going that far, and having a lot of tech can be advantageous but a bounty can't do much if they cant damage you and if they have no strength then it doesn't matter how good his or her smoke is if you have any sort of defense, if one abuses strength and tech def is put at risk and support is needed to add defense not to mention the reflex boost is the weaker of the two shields (i assume specifically for that reason)... it's really not that i'm against nerfing the skill however other than maybe switching it to dex, no one has really given a solution that keeps it balanced as support would simply give the class a reason to be op
AQW Epic  Post #: 102
11/18/2013 22:42:02   
AQWorldsFarmer
Member

yes but think about it.

If a merc invest in strength, they won't survive very long. (Static grenade scales with technology which means defensive and can survive longer between each static grenade).

Plus a merc steals an amount close to the amount given, as for static grenade only gives 50% of drained amount. It would be better if the amount taken and amount given was similar.
Post #: 103
11/18/2013 22:44:54   
GearzHeadz
Member

How is that better? It means a merc can drain 40 and receive 40 while a bounty can drain 40 and receive 20.

And investing in str doesn't have to be a bad thing. They have 2 other skills that work great with str. Double strike and berserk. A high str and good dex merc is a force to be reckoned with, if you've ever had to face one before.

< Message edited by GearzHeadz -- 11/18/2013 22:45:51 >
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 104
11/18/2013 22:47:06   
Altador987
Member

actually mercs have 4 skills that work well with str, those two as well as stun and then static smash as you'd gain more than you normally would
AQW Epic  Post #: 105
11/18/2013 22:49:18   
GearzHeadz
Member

Static smash kind of indirectly works with str. But yeah, it maul works well with it also. Not to mention it improves the sidearm a good bit.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 106
11/18/2013 23:00:27   
AQWorldsFarmer
Member

Let me start off again my stating this:

My change IS NOT an actual nerf, but a change to the skill. The drain should be lowered, and the gain should be raised. This way:

A.) It won't get rid of ALL of your opponents EP
B.) You gain more, therefor able to do more with it. (especially since bounty's have some new skills that now cost mana.)

Post #: 107
11/18/2013 23:08:29   
GearzHeadz
Member

So it won't get rid of all your opponents EP? Atom smasher and static smash can both already have the similar effectiveness to its drain.
If it gains more, people will complain about that even more.

Post edited due to deleted comment. ~Mecha

< Message edited by Mecha Mario -- 11/18/2013 23:12:09 >
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 108
11/18/2013 23:18:38   
Mecha Mario
Mechanized Plumber


 Had to delete a couple posts in this thread. Respecting one another is required, not an option. If that can't be done, this thread will either be locked and/or removed. Stay on topic.

If you have questions about this, PM me instead of posting it here.
DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 109
11/19/2013 3:30:18   
kaierti1
Banned


 Mecha Mario,
nice battle mecha mario. but u had big chance of win. u didnt use static grenade and i won. u could 100% win by using emp http://image.geotorrents.com/images/34303968063083251783.jpg

guys its very interesting talking about ed and some problems. dont annoy each other and respect! because if not then will be swearing and i dont want this.

< Message edited by kaierti1 -- 11/19/2013 3:31:12 >
Post #: 110
11/19/2013 7:23:24   
Ranloth
Banned


 I've had a test on my Lvl 28 BH, just now, who has Lvl 7 Static and it drains 39 EP (returns 20 EP). I must say... it's bad - not weak but bad. As a skill that should provide a reliable source of Energy, it's greatly limited due to the high amount it drains and merely 50% going to you. In many cases, you'll drain all of your opponent's Energy, get half of it back and it may be enough for low level skills, nothing else.

It should be nerfed, drain wise, and bump up the return to 75%, just like Static Smash. Currently, it still has the Energy draining lean on it, which makes return alright but not reliable. Often, you'll be able to rely on it once or twice in a battle - depending on who you face, but mostly TMs and TLMs due to Battery.

As of to the nerf, I still say it shouldn't be improving with Tech. Dex is also a bad idea due to Stun Grenade + Multi improving with it, so it'd be just as bad. I'll stand by making it Support + weaken drain but buff return, or level scaling and no improvements from any stat.
AQ Epic  Post #: 111
11/19/2013 7:31:48   
DarkDevil
Member

and as i have stated before , support already have 4 skills and moving any of them out or not will cause a balance nightmare.

as for it scaling without stat , skills energy don't scale so it will be very unfair for low levels if it didn't have a stat to improve them because its a draining skill too.

what was wrong with my suggestion ? numbers ain't final but it looks more balanced than its current state.
AQ Epic  Post #: 112
11/19/2013 8:15:08   
kaierti1
Banned


 DarkDevil,
if not support there is second variant "freeze" as energy backup. improve with none. 20-25 energy 100% back or 30-35 energy 50% back. but 4 cool down
Post #: 113
11/19/2013 8:17:47   
DarkDevil
Member

smth is abused doesn't mean it should be nerfed to the ground , it means it should be balanced, both of your ideas main purpose is about nerfing the skill to the ground.

so i will repeat myself 1 last time

battery backup has no requirements that's why it isn't governed by a stat.

the least requirement of grenade is that the enemy has energy.

also it is not a pure energy gainer nor drainer so it should be less than both.
even if it was to scale with level like battery backup it would keep its 3 turns cooldown and have about 35-40 drain but maybe add deflection to it .
having less than that will cause it to be weak for a draining skill which is why it is governed by a stat.
even when it takes alot it only gives back barely ~20 energy which is why it needs a buff on the energy gain.
lastly it is governed 60% by a stat which is why it is abused as it must but not as 60% but like 25% and rest comes from scaling so it will be weaker for high tech and stronger for low tech being balanced.
and to keep tech advantage adding deflection so tech builds only have 2% deflection rate.

< Message edited by DarkDevil -- 11/19/2013 8:47:53 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 114
11/19/2013 11:46:13   
Altador987
Member

@darkdevil, i think i understand what you're saying but to make sure (i definitely get the basics that the gain would be a little higher and the amount taken would be lower), are you saying it'd still be affected by tech but moreso how heal is affected by level or simply by how many skills you put into it
AQW Epic  Post #: 115
11/19/2013 12:24:17   
kaierti1
Banned


 DarkDevil,
i dont understand emp grenade never was deflectable how it will be deflect. its really silly idea because if not deflect this skill will be again hard. and why stay 3 turns? it is better than battery backup because u stealing (often) 46 energy, back 23 and energy backup just getting, and only 37. which is better 4 cooldown and 37 getting? or 3 cooldown 46 stealing and 23 getting? 2% deflect chance is not good idea lol. aux stun have 3% chance and it don't works almost never. 46/62=74% this skill stealing 74% of our energy. and even 35-40 energy steal are so many. i showed 33 lvl tank bounty hunter which dex was 42 and static grenade 49 steal energy. and support so low only 26 for smoke 5 or 6 lvl.

i tell such: 20-23 energy back is maybe not many but look u stealing 40-46 energy its so so many (65-75% of full 62). if there will be 35 steal and back 0% this will be better or 25 steal and 100% back, or improve with support. just wait. Nightwraith said on twitter that coming new update about balance and thanksgiving weapons and tankbots or something like that

< Message edited by kaierti1 -- 11/19/2013 12:36:50 >
Post #: 116
11/22/2013 18:44:35   
AQWorldsFarmer
Member

quote:

It should be nerfed, drain wise, and bump up the return to 75%, just like Static Smash. Currently, it still has the Energy draining lean on it, which makes return alright but not reliable. Often, you'll be able to rely on it once or twice in a battle - depending on who you face, but mostly TMs and TLMs due to Battery.


Thats what I've been saying. Lol. Nice to know someone agrees with me.
Post #: 117
11/28/2013 1:42:07   
Elite Tuga
Member

GAMES OFFICIALLY DEAD, IV'E NEVER SEEN SO MANY BOUNTY HUNTERS IN MY ENTIRE 3 YEARS PLAYING EPIC DUEL. Everyone has been moving out to them even the low levels, because they all know BH are very well built Tank F5 builds & even STR builds. Their skill tree's used to be struggling against other classes but now they are far 'too superior' with 'static grenade' & that 'smoke' skill that both improve with Tech & are way too strong. BIASED game they need a nerf because if Mages got nerfed to the ground when they were OP, BH's shouldn't be any better thus they should too be nerfed soon.


If they don't get nerfed im sure that soon everyone will be Bounty Hunter.. So much for a game with class & build variety!.. *Face-palm*
Epic  Post #: 118
11/28/2013 3:34:07   
Pemberton
Member
 

 ^I agree EliteTuga...Kinda sad that even the new low level players just class change to the next overpowered class...but I can't blame them because it is clearly superior...
I just don't get the logic in changing EMP (costs some energy drains energy) to Static Grenade (zero energy cost and drains energy and gives back energy)...
Is there even a balance team? I find it hard to believe that the "balance testers" did not see how OP Static Grenade would be...
Heck, I don't even understand how the Poison Bot is still infinite use until now...
Post #: 119
11/28/2013 6:32:58   
Ranloth
Banned
quote:

So much for a game with class & build variety!.. *Face-palm*

The Devs can promote variety all they want, it's up to the players to decide whether they want to be creative or just abuse for wins. Blaming something that cannot be controlled, on Devs is illogical and plain wrong. You can blame the players for class jumping for sake of power, not the Devs. As long as people will find a build to abuse, they will switch even if it costs them Varium.

It's like saying, you cannot play because Varium is too expensive for you and you want to nerf everyone who has ever purchased Varium, so you can compete or even win in most cases, against those with unique cores (Varium/Rare). Is it right to blame you for not wanting to spend money on ED, or your financial state (whatever it is)? No, it's not. It's not something you can control and change just like that. Devs try to promote variety and strategy, hence why the passives change has occured and cores cost Energy - so it's more balanced and you think before acting.

The only reason BHs are "overpowered" is because of Static Grenade. Nothing else. Smoke was nerfed as well which is to promote longer battles and that reduces the effect of luck. Crits were nerfed so they won't have big impact anymore. Rage will be reworked soon, so Str/Support abusers won't walk over tanks just like that due to how it works right now.
Propose a solution, share your thoughts - don't flame. It won't help you, at all. Many balance changes in Omega are based on suggestions from this very Forum, so saying "Devs don't listen to us at all!" is false, and it only takes a moment to post it. Balance changes will come maybe this weekend, since it's Thanksgiving today. You have your family, they have theirs. They are entitled to some time off as well - running ED is their job, not something they must do 24/7 + little sleep. Just like how you get time off during weekends and holidays, so do they - yet sometimes they work outside their working hours, especially with yesterday's release - they were testing on Tuesday until late hours, was it 8-10PM?

Be constructive and give it some time. Or have a break until BHs are fixed. Titan has already said balance changes will come ASAP, and they wanted to get the release out first - which is the event - and then focus on balance changes, instead of trying to get both done at the same time and possibly postponing it even further.
AQ Epic  Post #: 120
11/28/2013 10:51:46   
Mother1
Member

Here is an idea for a change. Make it so Static grenade give the hunter Half of what it Actually drains, not half of what it would drain.

Here is an example.

Say the player has 20 energy left, and I have a static grenade that can take up to 45 energy.

If I use static grenade instead of it giving the hunter back 20 energy that is all the player has, and have of 45 is 22.5 which rounds up to 23, the hunter instead get's 10 energy. Meaning that half of whatever the player has left will given to the hunter not half of what would have been drained.
Epic  Post #: 121
11/28/2013 11:22:59   
Elite Tuga
Member

@ Trans

Thank-you 'Trans' for your reply post, much appreciated.

I agree with what you said, I too have thought similar in the past. It's just that we humans can only take in so much frustration/stress no matter how patient we are. My patience & hope to see balance in ED has gone downhill (games been trying to do this for years) but I don't mean to be non-constructive & just argue, I too have written down suggestions on the past in forums on how things should be, like many others. It's just the fact that this game is becoming even more unsettling & many like myself are unsatisfied this way & are feeling tired rather than excited of playing ED in this unfair state (except the players with a lot of Varium, who don't mind changing class like changing clothes).

Dev's try their best I admire their effort & we can help them by giving suggestions only problem is when they nerf a class that needs weakening they strengthen/OP another obliviously & how much longer will ED go on like this?..

Thanks for the update I didn't know BH's would get a nerf soon (I thought they were going to be untouched for God knows how long), because Design Notes didn't mention anything about that criteria. I'm glad you informed me because I don't usually go on ED's official page on FB or Twitter & now I feel more relaxed, Thanks again for the wonderful news.
Epic  Post #: 122
11/28/2013 19:10:06   
GearzHeadz
Member

@Mother1, yeah, I'm a bounty and I have to admit, this confuses me and I find it OP.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 123
11/29/2013 9:11:08   
The Hidden Legend
Member

mother1, are u saying that half of whatever energy a player has will go to the hunter? so if i have 62 energy and ur fighting me and u emp i will have 31? how much would u have?
Epic  Post #: 124
11/29/2013 9:54:25   
Mother1
Member

@ the hidden legend

No I was not saying it like that.

I was saying code it to where if the person has less than the max amount it can drain that it only gives the hunter half of what the player has left.

I will use you example to start.

you have 62 energy and let's say my grenade can drain 47 energy at max. Since you max energy is above 47 I only drain 47 and gain 24 energy because there was enough to drain the max amount. However let's say you have only 30 energy. I throw the grenade at you, however instead of taking all of your energy and getting 24 I would take all your energy and only get 15 which in turn is half of your remaining energy.

Here is the short version. If the opponent has more than the amount of energy that can be drain it works the way it does now. However, if the opponent has less than that amount it take all the energy "But" only gives the hunter half of what they stole.

Epic  Post #: 125
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