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RE: Content Vs Balance.

 
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11/30/2013 10:33:21   
Mother1
Member

@ remorse

On another note I have to ask your opinion on the passive shields turned active. Meaning Plasma/mineral/and hybrid armor. What are your thought on them?
Epic  Post #: 26
11/30/2013 11:04:32   
Remorse
Member

To my surprise the passives into actives went pretty well, I have no problems with the now active skills except for maybe shadow arts which IMO should be a strong and short shield rather then an average long one as in maybe only 1 or 2 turns but twice the potency.


I still think passives should play a role in this game and I think that role will be filled via passive weapon skill cores.

Providing they create more passives similar to the field medic buff when on low life HP passive.

This is a great example of the possibilities of using really small passive effects which could possibly influence the skill tree in minor ways and increase variety hopefully via making more builds viable.

I would like to see small weapon core passives that are more class specific as well eg. effecting a skill belonging to a particular class and therefore exclusive to that class.



I do however see a possible issue of classes becoming to similar arising.

I never thought that all classes should have both an energy regain and a drain, I think it is better for classes to have specific weaknesses which they can cater with cores or a superior strategy.
When all classes have the same, same but different skills as in different version of essentially the same thing it becomes really hard to balance the game to the surprise of some as it is much easier to compare similar skills eg. 2 energy drains then 2 completely different ones.


When you can't specifically say which skill is better because skills are so different it usually a sign of better balance because when they are so similar it is easy to start comparing and then spotting clear differences in power between each class.

It is better for classes to be so different that you can not say which is the best, then to have classes so similar and being able to spot clear strong points in a class because it is so easily compared, this is what I'm trying to get at essentially.


Basically they need to focus on making classes different and if that means not all classes have all styles of strategies whether it be all types of shield, drain, regains, debuffs, in some for or another than so be it.


< Message edited by Remorse -- 11/30/2013 11:08:47 >
Epic  Post #: 27
11/30/2013 11:24:45   
Mother1
Member

@ remorse

Personally I thought they overbuffed the passive to active shields. Especially since they also nerfed the offensive debuffs while doing so. Buffing up the percents, or making them immune to debuffs alone would have been good on it's own, however now unless you are really abusing the stat that strengths your debuff you can't really get through those buffs.

quote:

I never thought that all classes should have both an energy regain and a drain, I think it is better for classes to have specific weaknesses which they can cater with cores or a superior strategy.
When all classes have the same, same but different skills as in different version of essentially the same thing it becomes really hard to balance the game to the surprise of some as it is much easier to compare similar skills eg. 2 energy drains then 2 completely different ones.


On this I agree with you. When omega first came out and they made cores, Those were suppose to be used to help them out with what they lacked, however this is just messed up. They are make all the classes the same as for what I am seeing, because before this each class had what it specialized in and what it couldn't do so well in. But that was what made them fun to play as. Now with what they are doing, they might as well make goldslayer1's custom skill trees idea reality since they are basically giving the classes that lacked something another class had.

Epic  Post #: 28
11/30/2013 11:34:11   
Remorse
Member

^ Exactly, and I'm glad you agree on the matter.


As for the new shields being to strong.

I have never have a problem with versing shields if its dubuffs not going through them that is your problem then perhaps look more to strategy rather then power.


try saving your de buff for a time when they do not have time to use the shield for example damage them down enough to make them heal then hit them with the debuff right before they heal and you are in business.

People are often to quick to reliy on using their debuff, Im not sure if it is still the case but back when I was reasonably good at this game I knew to never use you debuff the first turn. However I realize things have changed and with anti counters such as azreal gear then it make be the way to go I guess.

Epic  Post #: 29
11/30/2013 11:48:20   
Mother1
Member

@ remorse

Yeah I figured that out eventually when coming across someone with these buffs. kind of refreshing in some cases, unless I am trying to get a quick win for a capture point. As I said before there are times I like long battles, and others when I like quick ones depending on the situation.

But one thing I know is for sure the days of all around builds without stat abuse in an area are done until they change it so these builds can work again. Cause sadly when they nerfed half of the damage dealers (strength and support) while leaving the rest the same, they hurt those builds more than others which really saddens me since I actually enjoyed using non abusive builds.
Epic  Post #: 30
11/30/2013 11:54:49   
Remorse
Member

^ I can sympathize, as they have been nerfing variety in my eyes ever since beta as JDM and I have been trying to explain, so imagine your feelings with this small nerf compared to the changed that have occurred over 3 years and multiply it by 10 that is what us beta players are feeling.

Though I admit omega brings promise, so I try to stay optimistic for now.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 11/30/2013 11:55:49 >
Epic  Post #: 31
11/30/2013 12:23:28   
Scyze
Member

Omega has brought out a lot of new things; with the latest update, we saw new BankBots, which is almost like the bank in AQW. We are still getting new content every week, as well as balance changes. We can all debate on how good/bad Omega is but Omega is different from any other phase. Beta was the second phase of EpicDuel, and that phase still had flaws. Players didn't know how to play the game properly and those who did, managed to win a lot. Varium gear back then had a huge advantage, it still did until the end of Delta.

With Enhancements, you could make an offensive tank build. I know this because I made one - which was successful and maybe OP. If you were someone who couldn't afford Varium or didn't want to use Varium for Enhancements, you had the chance to use Credits. The Enhancement slots differed from Varium gear to Non-Varium gear until the end of Delta. As a Non-Enhancement player, you could make a decent build; not as strong as with Enhancements. You can make an offensive Strength build with low defence, but with Enhancements, you could do the same with higher defences. Now, does that really seem fair to you? To me, it doesn't. Players struggled to get a lot of wins without Varium gear and the best choice of items were from the Suggestion Shop.

You can come up with a great storyline for EpicDuel. That's easy to do, all it needs is common-sense and not something ridiculous. It's harder to put the ideas into the game though. Adobe Flash is being used to make a lot of games these days, and will keep doing so in the future. You will need to create new maps, Weapons, NPC's, Missions and new items. With such a large amount of demand for Missions at certain times, you need to make Missions. EpicDuel doesn't have a lot of Staff members. You cannot go up to them and say: "make more content!" I'm sure the Developers are trying hard to do this all in one week.

EpicDuel isn't AdventureQuest Worlds where they have a lot of Testers, Artists, Animators and Coders. EpicDuel doesn't have a lot of content released every-week because of the workforce. The more people you have, the better and easier it becomes to think of ideas and solutions. Players just play games without realising how much effort it takes to make updates happen. People complain that releases are late. It's not the Developers' fault if bugs randomly appear, they are a pain to debug. It may take weeks to figure out why a particular problem occurred.

If you want new Weapons, that will need to be created - it will take up space on the server. Servers cost a lot to run and EpicDuel is saving a lot of money due to closing servers when not populated. Whenever there's a new promotional package, if you don't like it, then don't get it. It's always a good thing to wait for a few days and see how others feel about the items. Really, you're buying Varium not the items itself. You can wait a year, can't you? Some items won't come back therefore, you can buy it in-game. You don't need to spend about $50 for it, or hours doing surveys.

When it comes to making the game's balance better, where do you start with? Once you're happy with the balance update you just created, some players will hate it - while others will love it. There's the one thing which you need to ignore: you cannot always please everyone. Going back to what I said about the promotional packages, you can wait for a year. When a new promotional item is introduced, it may or may not be balanced (talking about the Core it comes with). When you find out that it's OP, you buy it; you don't really care/think about the future. When the Core gets balanced, you don't like the change and start to complain. The job of balancing out Weapons have now been easier since all Weapons are equal.

If we, as players, don't like how things are done in EpicDuel, we criticise the Developers - when we should be trying to make EpicDuel better. Giving back feedback really helps, they can come in a calm manor or in a harsh manor.


With a lot of nerfing occurring, it's hard to keep up. I am a player from Beta, my current account was created in February 2010. I don't really care about how much nerfing is done around here as long as I'm happy with EpicDuel. I love EpicDuel, I don't want to quit. There are times when I want to do that, but I go for a walk and change my decision. It's not easy to keep playing EpicDuel week after week, and I've done that, nearly. I hope to stay with EpicDuel more many more years, regardless of my current situation.

People don't like the Dread War. What the war is actually doing is, is that it's playing a background role. It may last for a year but it's got nothing of value right now. You don't have to participate in the war, but it's a good idea since you can get Rating Points up.


< Message edited by Scyze -- 11/30/2013 12:41:41 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 32
11/30/2013 12:40:24   
Remorse
Member

^ Interesting overview their scyze,

I especially agree on the part about enhancements and I am glad they are now gone.




I worry that I may seem to come of as a harsh criticizer the Developers, deep down I just give strong opinions to try to improve the game and hopefully prevent them from making mistakes that ruin enjoyment for me anyway.
Epic  Post #: 33
11/30/2013 13:39:17   
martinsen5
Member

Tbh I prefer things like they are now, but that's just my personal preference.

Every class having energy drain, energy regain, debuffs and buffs... it makes a lot of sense to me as some skills aren't comparable in power and usefulness. Energy regain, as it stands right now, is far more useful than health regain. Imagine BH without Static Grenade (if it wasn't OP), the class would be unable to compete with other classes as basically everything relies on energy now. I don't like the idea of having "weaknesses" for every class, because one class would always be superior to the others in terms of what skills are useful.

The game already offers some variety when you think of how each class have their own "unique" skills, I don't think there's a problem with equalities though.
AQW Epic  Post #: 34
11/30/2013 17:42:05   
Wootz
Member

I would personally prefer Content and battle mechanics. Just my reasons which are irrelevant.
AQW Epic  Post #: 35
11/30/2013 18:05:49   
Shajun Ki
Member

Depends, if there is good balance then i want content updates, if there is bad balance or boring gameplay(like it is now), I want balance and battle mechanic updates.
Post #: 36
11/30/2013 22:13:49   
lionblades
Member

For me its the same as Wootz--I prefer Content and Battle Mechanics just on past experiences.

For me, Content is extremely fun to play (maybe sometimes 20 battles are annoying) and the art is amazing.

The reason I like Battle Mechanics is based on past implementations/experiences (IMO it has implemented before with great success)
For example, before blocks could change the whole game but after player suggestion the Devs changed the Block system. Before it did 0 dmg but now it can range from about 3-8.
Unlike before, now even if the opponent has 1 hp a block does not turn the whole game around). This whole change had a high positive feedback from the players, mine included.

The only reason I do not find balance to be stronger on my list than Battle Mechanics is also due to past experiences. This whole time during Omega and previous phases, the dev's attempts to balance was that never great imo.
So much bias and subjective opinions. First Str users-->nerf-->Focus "zombies"-->nerf-->Caster mages-->nerf-->BM-->TM again-->BH...
Nerfs and Buffs will only get you so far, but changing how the game works gives more radical (possibly better) results. Just my 2 cents on this.

< Message edited by lionblades -- 11/30/2013 22:14:24 >
AQW  Post #: 37
12/1/2013 0:19:29   
Remorse
Member

^ I agree that battle mechanics should be a higher preference to balance,

needless balance is pointless in the battle mechanics aren't even as fun as it used to be, to begin with.



However to get decent battle mechanics they need decent balance and therefore they work hand it hand.



I only hope that when they do change the battle mechanics again they go in the right direction.
My biggest worry is that the lack of understanding of what used to be fun about the game means that it is hard to return to that status.

For instance I don't think making all the classes similar is a step in the right direction for battle mechanics though I could be wrong.

What I would do is simply make energy easier to invest in as in 2 energy per stat point rather then 1 or 1.25.
This means not every class needs, energy drains and a regains and if they aren't so similar then we can have more strategic battles rather then circumstance and luck.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 12/1/2013 0:21:12 >
Epic  Post #: 38
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