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Abolishing skill prerequisites

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11/30/2013 11:50:42   
Ranloth
Banned


 Before I begin, this suggestion is not about removing requirements - such as Strength - from skills, but removing a skill required to access the next one, for example, a Tech Mage needs to train Bludgeon before they can access Battery Backup.

Reason behind this is, simply, freedom. We're done with the passives era and it's all about active skills. Level requirement would remain intact; L1 for Tier 1, L2 for Tier 2, L5 for Tier 3 and L10 for Tier 4. Some skills get in the way, when you want to access one specific skill, such as Mercenary wanting to train Adrenaline Rush but needing to train two skills prior to that - Intimidate and Maul - which they may not even need, thus wasting two skill points as the result of it.

Of course, there could be one way to prevent abuse, such as needing to have at least one skill point in the previous Tier - so, to access Tier 4 skill(s), you would need to have invested in one Tier 3 skill - even if it's just one point. Why so? Even if that amount may seem trivial, we could see likes of Tech Mages going for Plasma Bolt (T1), Field Medic (T1), Defense Matrix (T1), and Battery Backup (T3), therefore completely forgoing Tier 2 and Tier 4 skills, because they may not be as useful for them, for whatever reason.
Looking at the existing skill trees, an average player would likely invest into one skill at each Tier anyway, to cover the flaws in their build - such as Shields, Energy draining/returning skill, debuff, etc. - so it wouldn't be as much of an issue, but would prevent abuse nevertheless.

Would this cause imbalance between skills, or give a bit more freedom for some builds, by allowing to have a few more skill points and not be forced to have useless skills?

< Message edited by Trans -- 11/30/2013 15:37:40 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 1
11/30/2013 12:11:46   
Remorse
Member

It is sort of sad how much of the old game I know and loved changed,

But I guess new times is new times.

Therefore I support. Though it sort of ruins the name "tree" considering they are no longer joining together.
Epic  Post #: 2
11/30/2013 12:13:38   
kosmo
Member
 

 i asweel feel like im wasting some points to have access to the skill i need, but on the other side, ive eard of ppl complaining they didnt know where to put their points because they feel as they have too much, due to high energy cost, but those players would still be allowed to trow points here and there, so supported.

< Message edited by kosmo -- 11/30/2013 12:18:37 >
Epic  Post #: 3
11/30/2013 12:21:57   
Ranloth
Banned


 The problem with "spare" skill points can be solved at some point in time, by adding more skills to skill trees. Right now, some builds even struggle to use all of their skill points hence why some end up being wasted anyway, which isn't necessarily an issue with the game but our builds not needing a lot to work efficiently. :p

Yeah, skilltree would lose its meaning, but we can't hold back a change just because of the name! XD In a way, it's still a tree if we put my suggestion of having a skill in a previous tier before being able to access the next one.
AQ Epic  Post #: 4
11/30/2013 15:09:36   
Teserve
Member

The tree's branches are just very wiggly. I would support this change, if made.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 5
11/30/2013 15:28:42   
martinsen5
Member

Yeah, I completely agree on this. Just one question, would Field Medic along with two other T1 skills be activated already, or would the player start out with 3 skill points at level 1?
AQW Epic  Post #: 6
11/30/2013 15:31:53   
Ranloth
Banned


 Everything remains as it is now, the only difference is lack of skill x being required to access skill y. And perhaps my suggestion on how to prevent abuse (explained in the first post). ^^

< Message edited by Trans -- 11/30/2013 15:38:10 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 7
11/30/2013 15:46:34   
martinsen5
Member

So in a way then, 3 skills will still be forced onto the player, like skills unusable with swords or builds that don't use heals. Like the idea though.
AQW Epic  Post #: 8
11/30/2013 15:53:15   
Ranloth
Banned


 Well, considering that these skill points are essentially free, there isn't much issue with it. Otherwise, a Level 1 player would start with either, no skills trained or have Heal trained and no other skills until they level up.

The issue arises when it comes to other skills, for which we pay with our own skill points. :p
AQ Epic  Post #: 9
11/30/2013 15:59:49   
martinsen5
Member

Haha yeah I guess I went a little off-topic by bringing in the topic of skills the players don't necessarily use, when your suggestion is about wasting skill points. And if we did start with 3 skill points at level 1, using T2 skills would still require you to invest in previous tiers either way, so nvm! :b
AQW Epic  Post #: 10
11/30/2013 16:51:14   
GearzHeadz
Member

Hm. Yes, sounds like something that should be done.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 11
11/30/2013 18:30:01   
RageSoul
Member

Supported!
AQW Epic  Post #: 12
11/30/2013 18:38:39   
Chosen 0ne
Banned


 Have you thought of this Trans?

Someone creates an account and chooses BH. They invest all their skills into massacre.

Problems come fast after that.

@below

Alright, for some reason I was thinking that this would get rid of level requirements too.

< Message edited by Chosen 0ne -- 11/30/2013 23:11:15 >
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 13
11/30/2013 18:45:31   
Ranloth
Banned


 And how would this be different to what we have now? BH and CH skill tree allows you to access Massacre pretty easy already anyway, so there'd be absolutely no difference.

There's one thing that prevents such easy abuse - level requirement. Go to Retrain Screen, and try to train Mark -> Reflex -> Massacre. You can't. Why? You need Level 10 to train Massacre, therefore, you must spend 98 skill points between Tier 1 and Tier 3 skills, before you can access Tier 4 skills. This would be the same if my suggestion was to pass.

Don't worry, Chosen, I wouldn't suggest this if it was to cause imbalance.

< Message edited by Trans -- 11/30/2013 19:08:46 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 14
11/30/2013 19:04:47   
Teserve
Member

At least they fixed the bug where you could get a lvl 7 ult. at lvl 10.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 15
11/30/2013 22:25:21   
lionblades
Member

At first looks, I support I like to be efficient and not waste skill points on unnecessary skills ;)

However, right now honestly I don't think there will be more freedom from the current builds because even with this implemented at max level we are talking about 1-3 skill points extra.

Maybe in the long run with more new skills to invest in I can see hope :)
AQW  Post #: 16
12/1/2013 5:43:37   
Pemberton
Member
 

 Do you understand the meaning of level up? You level up to get better skills. Can you image a lvl 1 that can poison grenade or venom strike?
Post #: 17
12/1/2013 5:57:56   
RageSoul
Member

@above
That's not what he meant , what Trans is stating is that you don't have to invest specific skills to access to a desired skill ( i.e Venom Strike can only be accessed when you invested at least 1 point to Reflex Boost ) but still requires you to reach the required level .
AQW Epic  Post #: 18
12/1/2013 6:32:20   
Ranloth
Banned


 IIRC, Venom Strike is Tier 3 for BHs and Tier 4 for CHs. You'd need to invest 3 skill points between Tier 1 and 2 for BH, and whoopin' 8 skill points for CHs. For TLMs, that'd also be 8 skill points.

The only difference is no skill prerequisites, like we have now. This saves us some skill points at times, a little but still counts because it may improve someone's build. Even more so when more skills get added at some point in time.

Pemberton, next time, read the posts above yours - I've covered the exact same thing in post #14.
AQ Epic  Post #: 19
12/1/2013 6:52:43   
Pemberton
Member
 

 That's what I'm saying -_-
Post #: 20
12/1/2013 7:29:51   
kosmo
Member
 

 u are not taking into consideration the lvl requirment, skill like venom strike or poison granade have a lvl 10 requirment, so they would not be "abusable" untill the requirment isnt matched.
and whatever most of theese skills have a stat requirment aswell, which makes them impossible to train at low lvls

< Message edited by kosmo -- 12/1/2013 7:34:37 >
Epic  Post #: 21
12/1/2013 8:08:59   
Ranloth
Banned


 Exactly, therefore, it wouldn't be much different to what you can do now. In the long run, it saves you skill points which you may find useful later on in the game but you're being forced to train an useless skill just to get to the one you want.

If we take into account future ED, when there will likely be more skills (Tier 5, etc.), this would really end up being beneficial for everyone. In addition, lower level players have harder time accessing some skills which means they end up with few skill points wasted to access their desired skill, and that harms their build quite significantly - I've got a TM of my own, Lvl 22, and to get to Assimilation, I waste two skill points on Technician and Malf which I don't use, and I'd love Super Charge at some point but that'd mean I need to waste another 2 skill points on Multi and Stun.

Since there wouldn't be much imbalance out of this - if any at all - and allow a bit more freedom (think long term), I genuinely believe now is a good time for such change. Back when there were passives, I'd be a bit wary of this type of suggestion, but now with all active skills, there's literally no harm.
AQ Epic  Post #: 22
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