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RE: Mercenary's with sword.

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1/19/2014 14:43:19   
Scyze
Member

So when I deal 200 damage, I will deal 360. When that's blocked, I'll deal 54 damage.
If I deal 250 (half of 500 if you didn't know), I'll deal 450. Blocked = 67.5, which is half. Like you said, it's nearly the same, but EpicDuel rounds numbers. 67.5 should round up to 68, and multiplying it by 2 gives me 136. If it rounds down, it will be 134.
Is there a difference or not?

< Message edited by Scyze -- 1/19/2014 14:45:22 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 51
1/19/2014 14:49:56   
GearzHeadz
Member

I meant the difference between a regular strike and berserker strike block at 500 or 250 is the same difference.

500 damage strike would be 75 while blocked, max berserker while blocked is 135. 135-75=60

250 damage strike would be 38 while blocked, max berserker while blocked is 68. 68-38=30

The difference is still the same.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 52
1/19/2014 15:08:31   
Ranloth
Banned


 I can't believe we really have to go through this... C'mon, it's a VERY simple concept. :|

L10 Zerker (80% damage increase), and let's say your weapon damage is 500. Number in () bracket is the old system, before x10.
500 * 1.8 = 900 (90) damage dealt
900 * 0.15 = 135 (14) damage dealt on block
900 * 0.33 = 297 (30) damage dealt on skill's new block

This is assuming your opponent has 0 defense, which is impossible... Shall we use an example of, say, 300 (30) Defense?
500 * 1.8 = 900 - 300 = 600 (60) damage dealt
600 * 0.15 = 90 (9) damage dealt on block
600 * 0.33 = 198 (20) damage dealt on skill's new block

Would this really be overpowered, when we're assuming you have around 100 Str & +340 damage weapon, and the fact the example uses L10 Zerker which costs... 420 EP, thus easily counterable. I won't mention your defenses will be lacking, and you'll have fewer stats with a Club than you would with a Sword.
Mind you, my examples use fixed numbers, not ranges. So the actual numbers may be minimally higher or lower, depending whether the RNG selects the upper or lower range.

I would've thought players want some skills to be diverse, and unique in their own way. Mercs have too many blockable attacks as well, just like TLMs, which is why this could be a good trade-off for the Club requirement.

< Message edited by Trans -- 1/19/2014 15:09:02 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 53
1/19/2014 18:01:23   
noremako
Member

I believe a huge problem is the lack of usability with Berzerker. 420 energy doesn't match well with anything. Even with Static Smash, because Berzerker has a round of warm up, so to use any other skills aside from Berzerker (level 10, no less) stats have to be set aside. If not, 3 rounds, and even then, enemies can steal energy. Strength isn't really a stat reliant skill, but with blocking and deflecting (mainly blocking), pure Strength is not really favoured especially since high win ratios seem to be the new trend.

I would really suggest Berzerker scaled similar to in Beta. Probably not the same (Berzerker started at 70%) but something with more synergy cost and timewise.

Level 1: 44%
Level 2: 48%
Level 3: 52%
Level 10: 80%

As you can see, Berzerker in this scaling scales by 4% to reduce the need to pile points to deal any substantial damage. This lowers energy cost in general, and thus allows usage in combination with other skills.

The blocking idea would also be really good, most fights where the enemy blocks Berzerker, it is impossible or extremely hard to win. With the rising trend of Dexterity builds (especially at moderate levels) accounting for blocking is incredibly important.


Post #: 54
1/19/2014 18:42:43   
Cyber Dream
Member

This would be my suggestion

  • Make Static Smash usable with a sword.
    Reason: Do I really need to state one?

  • Make Double Strike require a maul
    Reason: Mauls would be pointless if a skill didn't have a requirement for it.


  • Decrease Static Smash percentages by 4% at all levels.
    Reason: Making Static Smash usable with a sword is a complete buff to Mercs which may cause it to be on the line of being OP. So why not nerf the class while buffing it at the same time.

  • Decrease Berzerker mana cost by 40 at all levels,
    Reason: Berzerker is barley used and the way Merc is setup, you are bound to get blocked while using it.

    • AQW Epic  Post #: 55
    1/19/2014 23:31:59   
    GearzHeadz
    Member

    		Berserker is a far stronger skill then you guys are giving it credit for. The cost for damage increase is very good, doesn't require a weapon, and isn't locked to any damage. But if it were made to require a club, my suggestion would be to make it give an increased amount of rage with the strike, about 10% extra rage points? And of course a lower energy cost. Also probably removing the 1 turn warm-up.

    Or another way would be to simply give double strike a club requirement and lower the energy cost. It already has the lowest cool-down of all the tier one offense skills, and is the only one that doesn't require a class specific weapon.

    Static smash being usable with a sword. Yeah, I can agree with this, as long as other skills become required for a club, preferably double strike.

    Don't think this belongs here but I think frenzy should be put back on a club requirement. Especially now that it is a two in one skill, armor ignore and health regain.
    DF AQW Epic  Post #: 56
    1/20/2014 0:29:18   
    DarkDevil
    Member

    		i belive the penalty for sword is much more than 4% , more like 20% or sometimes more.
    AQ Epic  Post #: 57
    1/20/2014 1:42:09   
    coolboyelazizy
    Member

    		So the summariness is ::

    1-Static smash : Remove wep requirement and nerf a bit.

    2-Berzerk or Double strike : Give any of them a club requirement and give it a boost.

    Anything else?
    AQW Epic  Post #: 58
    1/20/2014 1:44:27   
    Mother1
    Member

    		@ coolboyelazizy

    that would also mean TLM would get the same requirement for double strike since they share this move with Mercenary as well.
    Epic  Post #: 59
    1/20/2014 1:50:29   
    coolboyelazizy
    Member

    		@ Mother1

    Well I was waiting for ur bost

    Actually giving double strike a wep requirement will balance tlm a bit since they have only one wep require skill don't u think?
    AQW Epic  Post #: 60
    1/20/2014 12:18:10   
    coolboyelazizy
    Member

    		Please guys who support this say and say ur conditions
    AQW Epic  Post #: 61
    1/20/2014 12:42:45   
    GearzHeadz
    Member

    		I'd support this, but, double strike or berserker would need a weapon requirement. Double strike preferably, for reasons I've stated. Static smash would need a nerf, not sure what exactly, and it would need to be block able still, unless lowered a bit more.
    DF AQW Epic  Post #: 62
    1/20/2014 13:09:52   
    Cyber Dream
    Member

    		TLM has batter backup? Correct?
    AQW Epic  Post #: 63
    1/20/2014 13:22:57   
    GearzHeadz
    Member

    		Yes?
    DF AQW Epic  Post #: 64
    1/20/2014 13:23:53   
    coolboyelazizy
    Member

    		Yes cyber.
    AQW Epic  Post #: 65
    1/20/2014 13:34:00   
    Ranloth
    Banned


    		 Asking more people to comment so they support it, doesn't make it more likely to be implemented. I can make everyone who's a BM, support me in a suggestion that makes BMs deal 1,000 damage on each hit. Devs look at it and consider the balance issues themselves. Feedback merely gives them an insight into what players think, and their constructive feedback could allow them to decide whether it should be implemented, or ways to alter it and then implement.

    Gearz, you're proposing Club requirement on Double Strike, right? Let's refer to our example of CheapShot from the previous page - namely the power boost. What would you suggest the ideal compensation would be for the requirement? Mind you, CheapShot has two effects that boost its damage - defense ignore and chance to Crit. Double Strike is purely damage boost and I'd hope it would remain as such. The only solution is cutting its cost, from +20 EP/level to +10 EP/level +15 EP/level. Max cost would go down from 330 EP to 240 285 EP instead. *edited due to overshotting the cost reduction, when compared to Bludgeon (minimally stronger, locked to Physical, Staff requirement and ~same cost as new DS which is not locked to Physical*

    If this was to happen - making Static Smash useable with a Sword - then I'd go with either the above or something similar to my suggestion to Berzerker. Mind you, I wouldn't want Surgical Strike to remain as it is either - due to imbalance in weapon requirements on skills between the 6 classes. Reasons stated on the previous page. And, of course, Static Smash would remain blockable. Minimal loss in power (~5%) to compensate for no weapon requirement, nothing else gets altered in regards to the skill.

    What do you say?

    < Message edited by Trans -- 1/20/2014 19:45:34 >
    AQ Epic  Post #: 66
    1/20/2014 13:44:31   
    GearzHeadz
    Member

    		Like I said, it is the only tier one skill that does not have a weapon requirement and with a 1 turn cool down, despite not having any requirements. Fire ball, plasma bolt, and cheap shot all have 2 turn cool downs and weapon requirements. Cheap shot is the only one with a double effect, armor ignore and crit chance (note that bunker buster has the same, but with higher damage AND higher cost, so I think that balances out fair enough) I think that simply lowering the energy cost like you've suggested would be fine enough for the skill, if made club requirement.

    The static smash is reasonable, and I agree completely on that.
    DF AQW Epic  Post #: 67
    1/20/2014 14:58:39   
    Ranloth
    Banned


    		 We could always give it a 2 turn cooldown, especially with lower cost attached to it. That's never an issue, especially since it's powerful already but requirement + cheaper cost, would make it even more formidable skill.

    It could also benefit TLMs as well - Atom, Double Strike and Surgical Strike requiring a Club to use. If you don't need Surgical Strike, and use Cores instead of Atom Smasher - which is also blockable, unlike EP-draining cores like Energy Shot - then you're not losing much. In fact, TLM of mine has considered getting Energy Shot & opting out for a Sword, because I've used my Club due to Frenzy - which had Club requirement before. A fair boost for the class, if you ask me.
    AQ Epic  Post #: 68
    1/22/2014 6:50:05   
    noremako
    Member

    		I have always noticed how Mercenaries are dominated by other classes at lower levels. This is certainly due to the lack of spammables and combos that deal any damage at those levels.

    e.g. Zero support Tech Mages can afford to have huge defenses and resistances with Dex and Tech, and can spam successfully, Overload (which is way too cheap for how powerful it is), then Plasma Rain, or Plasma Bolt and Supercharge,Battery Backup, then repeat. Mercs can Bunker Buster, wait two turns, then reuse, by which time they are dead or severely disadvantaged.

    Double Strike needs an buff as it has no low level usability unlike Smokescreen or TM caster spells. The club idea won't handicap lower levellers, but probably, it needs a buff to keep it going, especially at its 150 energy cost. Currently, Double Strike is a skill used to deal quick damage when the enemy is about dead, but is far less useful then the type changing (very useful), 50 energy less and 8% stronger Bludgeon. Double Strike is a small go to skill, with a 1 turn cooldown, reducing the cost seems to be the best alternative, unless that would make tanking fights very favourable for Mercs. Generally other classes have higher damage output anyway, so I don't think an 50 energy reduction is too much to ask. If not, at least something less then it is right now, because 150 renders it unusable in most situations.

    But seriously, low level Mercs need a dramatic buff. The skill tree has no combo skills, so Bunker Buster should at least be stronger (Level 6-10 have only got an extra 10 damage per level, which is rather weak in comparison to other damage skills. At least 20 damage boost should last up to Level 7, so it would allow an extra 20 damage for Bunker Buster users.)
    Post #: 69
    3/8/2014 18:20:22   
    Richy112
    Member

    		No. I don't think that merces should get energy with swords, but static smash should be unblockable. Most of mages with dexterity build block this skill and you have to strike untill next static smash, which could be blocked again.
    Epic  Post #: 70
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