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Build Diversity x 10

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3/8/2014 22:09:11   
edwardvulture
Member

There are two things I think needs to be done to make this game filled with more battle choices than ever.
The first is a skill tree revamp (that will need thought and input from all the players as I am not even close to being bigoted enough to suggest a revamp of every class with new skills)
And the 2nd is a stats revamp
How will this increase build diversity?

By the way, this is a sledge-hammer-it-to-space balance suggestion so the chance of it ever happening is relatively low.

Case for the skill tree revamp:
-Players tend to invest passives on their skill trees (when they were available)
-Players are often investing in skills that cost 0 energy (as seen by the mass spammage of skills such as assilimination, battery back up, and static grenade etc...)
-There are limits to what certain stats can do for a class (ex. support tech mage is sort of dead)

Case for New agility and bring stats/skills scaling back to Delta progressions(but keeping the 10x)
-Delta had more build diversity
-energy is the least invested stat other than support
-High HP has almost been universally overpowered
-In the past balanced(rounded stats) builds used to stand a chance against build that focused heavily on one stat. (I need some proof here but ex. support build TLM vs. high-life normal stats TM TM wins....)

How will this multiply build diversity by 10?
Well, it won't. What I wrote was just an exaggeration of what could be the 2 changes that can make people try new builds, return old builds that they loved, and STAY trying to find new ways of enjoying their battling experience.

How would this suggestion "appeal to the masses"
People LOVE CHOICE Think of every thing you love. Wasn't it a choice?
Ok that was my only selling point.

How would this make epicduel(even more) EPIC?
Imagine this:
-Bounty hunters with 2 types of multi, 1 scaling on dex and 1 scaling on tech. Cheap shot that costs 0 energy.
-Blood Mages with 1,000 energy using every single bit of it because now, skills can have attributes that scale on energy cap. <----This one is probably the furthest strectched out of what I'm suggesting because we don't even have anything that comes close to what I'm suggesting here
-Tactical Mercenaries with a def shield that scales on tech

Discussion questions
What are your thoughts involving current stats compared to Delta Stats?
How would you fix how more HP translates to higher win rates?
What new skills do you think that each class should obtain and what passives/0 energy skills do you think should belong on each class?

< Message edited by edwardvulture -- 3/9/2014 17:58:50 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 1
3/10/2014 18:58:08   
toopygoo
Member

we do need a makeover like this.

not just skills, but an entire class set/attribute makeover for all aspects of each class.

I read the ideas but am not currently brain-alive enough to respond intelligently, :P but I like the 100 energy for blood Mages and stuff :) i know that would have pitfalls, but its that kind of "EXCESS" makeover I'm thinking would get the job done.

Keep in mind. as of now. certain classes still have a +/- 3 stats point deviance in certain cases for "balance" purposes.

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AQW Epic  Post #: 2
3/11/2014 10:58:22   
Predator9657
Member

I'll agree that a revamp is needed, but this one seems "slightly" extreme.

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Epic  Post #: 3
3/15/2014 2:09:59   
Remorse
Member

It is likely that doing these things may increase variety,

However my opinion is that if their was variety in the system before they should be able to restore it without having to do as dramatic changes though that may still be required.



I think to start increasing variety they need to,


1. Lower the dominance of strong cores and robots such as hatchling rush by either nerfing them, removing and compensating them, or by massively increasing the variety and range of cores and counter cores, with my favoring to the last option.

What this will do is free up the variety pool that was once specifically countered by strong cores by providing a means to counter them and thus allowing the possibility of such variety again.
For example, say you use a build that revolved around using a high level heal but hen were countered very hard by the hatch-ling core making you build pretty much unusable.
Counter cores such as a core that could remove a negative buff such the hatchling effect will mean this build is now usable again.



2. Remove the dominance of free costing skills such as static grenade, battery back-up, assimilation etc.
By giving these skills a cost and thus making them have more of an opportunity cost, making them less of a requirement in builds and thus opening up variety.

My favorite way to fix this issue which would also helps remove pressure of energy is to implement my Stamina points idea. http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=21537904

3.Removing power advantages such as the legendary system.
A new system could be in place to provide motivation for level capped players such as cosmetic rewards or a ranks sytem but nothing with a power advanatge which restricts variety.

4. Once those more major changes are implemented then it would be much easier to do small tweaks to balance to open up variety even more.

5. If variety is still low after this then they may have to start changing the core game by revamping skill and stats like you say.




< Message edited by Remorse -- 3/15/2014 2:18:17 >
Epic  Post #: 4
3/16/2014 14:42:00   
edwardvulture
Member

What a CH skill tree could look like w/ this:

"free skills" (20) points available for investment at level cap)
{Plasma Armor}-{Static Charge*}-{Shadow Arts}-{Static Grenade}
"cost skills" (25 points available for investment at level cap)
{Heal}-{EMP*}-{Static Kick*}-{Defense Matrix}
{Malfunction}-(Multi Shot)-{Venom Strike}-{Plasma Surge*}
{Plasma Grenade*}-(Massacre)-{Infrastructure Breakdown*}

Plasma Armor and Shadow Arts are pre-Passives to Actives
Static Charge*(needs to be reworked...possibly a static amount based on weapon damage)
EMP*(now does 50% gun damage along with drain)
Static Kick*(Cheap shot with 20% energy drain)
Plasma Surge*(Multi-shot scaling on tech)
Plasma Grenade*(needs to be redone)
Infrastructure Breakdown*(the second ultimate, does physical damage based on dex and has a poison effect based on support)

Cost skills addendum: Instead of having energy costs set by increasing amounts of 10's or 20's, why not 5's and also, instead of having energy cost increasing with each investment, how about increased effect without energy increases or energy reduction with same effect.
Also notice how every stat is viable for a build with this new skill tree, even energy and support.

< Message edited by edwardvulture -- 3/16/2014 14:48:23 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 5
3/21/2014 21:47:45   
Darkforce832
Member

Stats:

The developers need to find a way to balance out stats on all levels. Low levels tend to focus on Dexterity and Technology builds, and high levels tend to focus on Strength and Max Health.

Support and Energy are focused on the least.

I feel this is mainly influenced by the offensive skills (Improves with) the stats. Example: low levels will mainly be the first Mercs, Bounty Hunters, and Tech mages. Bounty hunters will most likely focus on Tech, due to Smoke being so use full and a well rounded skill. Tech Mages will focus on Dexterity, due to Plasma bolt being the only Tech leveling skill until level 10, and having two Dexterity building skill one after the other. Mercenary have the best chance of actually leveling Support stat, due to most skills leveling with the stat.

They go for the easiest skills available to them.


The higher levels, something happens that causes Strength and high Max Health to be the best builds. All I can say about that is the pros outweigh the cons when it comes to making a unique build.


Skills:

They need to make every single skill unique. This would allow balancing skills to be much more easier, they wont affect another class in order to fix the original they intended to affect. They could add similar skills but with one change to it, like different requirements, Improves with, energy cost, changing color of skills etc.

The (Improves with) seem to be what influence players the most, so that in itself could be used to influence diverse builds. If someone wants a Support build, they can make one on any class. If they want a Dexterity build, again they could do so.


Energy:

Energy control skills are the new Passives. Which the developers wanted to get rid of forcing players to level Passives. Most of this is due to the free cost of the certain skills, and energy stat not being able to handle a player trying to make a build with no Free Cost skills in there build.
Post #: 6
3/22/2014 0:07:56   
edwardvulture
Member




They could scale stat progressions but that sounds like a lot of complex coding.


Also, they DO NOT need to get rid of overlap skills and replace them with new ones that could put balance in even more of a jeopardy. They could just bring back passives and make the same skills mean different things for each class. For example, like right now, a field medic to a person with Ninja's Reflexes is just a bit more useful than a field medic that heals the same amount as someone without.

< Message edited by edwardvulture -- 3/22/2014 17:31:00 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 7
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