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RE: Respect for Respect

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7/3/2014 14:47:27   
Ranloth
Banned


 HTML5 and mobile gaming IS the reason why Flash games are failing. If you don't see it, it's ignorance on your side, because older AE Games already took the hit. Flash is at its limit, in terms of gaming, whilst other languages allow a lot more - see AQ3D coded in Unity for example.

Doing a research is always good, before you make claims that are actually right, and you refuse to believe so.

Also, a cookie for SMGS.
AQ Epic  Post #: 26
7/3/2014 14:54:38   
Rui.
Banned

 

 Cool so we lost playerbase after omega cause of mobile gaming and html5. Lets remove legendary ranks next and loose a few more to mobile gaming. Moreover we have new players cause they are too young to play games on mobiles is it ? Ingorance can be a blizz thats true trans.
Post #: 27
7/3/2014 14:58:58   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 @Rui Every AE game took a hit with the rise of mobile gaming that is why when AQ3D was no longer possible at this time they choose to pursue the mobile market.

Granted EpicDuel made some other choices that the players did not agree with the rise of mobile games did not help their case either
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 28
7/3/2014 15:01:57   
Ranloth
Banned


 I've already explained it before, in a different thread, that HTML5 + Mobile Gaming is the reason for Flash games' decline. In my post above, I didn't even specify Omega, but in general (all of AE). If your research on gaming industries reaches as far as ED, there's no point in debating something that you have no knowledge on.

< Message edited by Trans -- 7/3/2014 15:02:29 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 29
7/3/2014 15:03:56   
DeathGuard
Member

@Rui.: Freedom of speech involves the respect of others through the speech. It isn't freedom of speech if you're insulting someone because of a subjective reason.
Not all you get is what you deserved e.g. Innocent people die all over around the world and they don't deserve such death. Other example is if you get sentenced to death for a crime you didn't commit, it is alright that you get such death even if you didn't? I think not. Still people die for such things even if they don't deserve them.
Other examples are:
Being bullied
Racism (This is a perfect example for ethnic races who were seen as slaves by other races. They didn't deserve such humilliation.)

And yes, you're stating the "truth" from your point of view but that doesn't means you're correct.
I'm not covering for them, rather speaking in a general way of how they should be seen as.

Also, something I should probably say:
The NDA of AE talks about not disrespecting players in any way or form, but that doesn't obliges AE employers to give respect to players. ED Developers are giving you respect of their own, not because they are bound to.

Some quote I think I should share:
quote:

Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights goes on to say that the exercise of these rights carries "special duties and responsibilities" and may "therefore be subject to certain restrictions" when necessary "for respect of the rights or reputation of others"


< Message edited by DeathGuard -- 7/3/2014 15:06:36 >
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 30
7/3/2014 15:04:02   
Rui.
Banned

 

 Most AE games yes, but do you really believe the player base after omega has anything to do with it ? Just an excuse for bad leadership and marketing or yeah lets just blame it on mobile games.
Post #: 31
7/3/2014 15:08:37   
Ranloth
Banned


 No one is saying Omega isn't to blame. Removal of enhancements, temporary removal of NPCs, major imbalance at the beginning of Omega, lack of promised core variety - in fact, NOT blaming those would be pure ignorance, but there comes a time when we all know these changes caused a downfall for the playerbase (despite having SOME positive effect, long-term), and it doesn't need to be repeated.
We're merely saying that these changes aren't entirely to blame, but also likes of mobile gaming and HTML5, which will gradually have an impact (over time). I mean... AQ (Classic) had 15K players few years ago, online that is. It averages out just over 1K now. Is it bad decision making from the Staff, despite factual evidence that the game has improved since then? No, but rather external factors - i.e. mobile gaming.
AQ Epic  Post #: 32
7/3/2014 15:16:54   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 @Rui again it is Every AE not most but every AE game. The bounds stretch even farther than that. Game hosting sites, that I can't link because of rules, are also seeing a decline because the developers are moving on the mobile market which they can get more money and/or exposure out of.

I'm not disagreeing with you that some of the changes in the game have driven away players because I've been in the EpicDuel forums for five years so I have seen the mass exoduses that occur. I doubt trans will disagree you and I am not disagreeing with you but there are factors beyond jump the calls made by the developers that impact these games




Also this is an interesting topic for a read because there is discussion of EpicDuel without the normal EpicDuel community jumping in http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=21717757&mpage=1&key=�
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 33
7/3/2014 15:27:23   
Rui.
Banned

 

 Trans if you have already assumed and concluded by knowledge then there is nothing discuss, cause you seem to be in a comfort zone in that shell thinking yes cause = effect when clearly at times causes lead to effect. OWA has anyone done a cause and effect analysis on why the game failed ? Its just a general statement.. Html5 and mobile gaming are to blame.. So has that person created successful games in the past that are still running ? Are the mobile games that they develop a huge success? Are fans craving for them?? Oh yeah i wanna play that?? Gimme more?? Not really.. All comes down to maintaining loyalty and integrity with their supportes which ed really seems to lack looking at the past few months. Rui out, aint got time for this

Post edit. There is no need to insult others. ~Mecha

< Message edited by Mecha Mario -- 7/3/2014 15:39:49 >
Post #: 34
7/3/2014 22:37:28   
SMGS
Member

@Rui. - Not so sure about the Abyss Promo. If Char did in fact use 'exclusive' in one of here posts/tweets, that's poor wording and should definitely be looked into to prevent it happening again. That said, there is a rare policy that promos will eventually be available after some time for being promo exclusive. That policy should at least be more visible. It's likely buried in a random Design Note from months back at this point.

Bunny Auxiliary was a mistake. The developers explicitly stated they were sorry for that, on livestream. So you could actually hear Char apologizing for that. You didn't have to go finding a random tweet with the apology. They also explicitly stated that they would watch the automated system closely to prevent it from occurring again. Not sure what more you want from the developers on this issue.

The Pyro Fly issue was something that I felt was definitely a point against the developers. It seems the item was created before the 'rare eventually buyable ingame' policy was made. I think Mother1 made the post that a bot with the same ability but a different appearance would have been better for this. Also, there seemed to be a complete lack of any communication about this (as far as I know). I never saw a tweet, design note, post, etc. about it. Did not really like that aspect of it and they certainly did better communicating this time around (with room for improvement still).

Certainly you have gripes with the game, but that's another discussion to be had. Not going to respond about your choice to stay and continue playing again. That's an individual's decision and is none of my business.

You are entitled to your own opinion and you're free to disagree with the developers. In fact, I just did that with the part about the Pyro Fly, without the need to let Titan know that he should be banned from eating bacon for the rest of his life and other (more serious) personal attacks. I've gotten to the point where I've spent about half an hour trying to make out what you were trying to say in the rest of your post and I absolutely have gone nowhere. I'm going to skip over that part.

We have varying opinions on what makes a good community, for sure. But at the end of the day, you are defining what this community is as much as I am, as much as the developers are and as much as the others players do. And that matters if you want this game to be successful (and you definitely want it successful, otherwise you wouldn't be here posting actively).

Response to how EpicDuel has progressed is here.

< Message edited by SMGS -- 7/3/2014 22:59:01 >
Post #: 35
7/3/2014 23:30:24   
Mother1
Member

@ SMGS

Yeah that was me who made that post, and the reason why I said it was because the staff themselves said they were going to do that for old rares so they could bring back items that were once rare back but at the same time not screw over those of us who brought them while being promised they would be rare.

However the staff forgot about that, and lets just say that really ticked me off.

However it wasn't just the pyro fly that did this but the Azreal borg, and Bio borg as well and the bio borg was said to be leaving the game forever within some old design notes. I am still upset about that because of this when they promised everyone who was worried about their rares coming back that they would do just was I mentioned for the sake of perserving rares but they forgot that. Lord knows it wasn't just me who was upset about this and if they did this while they would have still possibly get hate it wouldn't be for breaking rare policy.

But as for the tweet that was said about this here is what it said "These bots are way too tactical and useful to forever remain rare."

Epic  Post #: 36
7/4/2014 2:01:47   
Yo son
Member

Hahahaha, you're probably new. The amount of rage this forum has endured is hilarious. Buffy and Angel. But there is always that one guy supports the Devs even when everything has gone wrong and everyone is mad at an update.

< Message edited by Yo son -- 7/4/2014 2:05:15 >
Post #: 37
7/4/2014 2:57:26   
Silver Sky Magician
Member


 @Trans

You're correct about larger trends being the reason behind AE's wider vulnerabilities. However since the decline in ED players did not occur gradually, or in a form consistent with changes in the mobile market, but rather in a sudden fashion following the introduction of Omega, it might be said that Omega (and crucially, the poor communication and initial implementation problems that accompanied it, even if the concept itself was laudable) is the key reason behind ED's current decline in player population. All factors should be properly considered here - gaming trends are a matter for AE's wider company strategy to handle, but individual dev teams have to concentrate on what they have to improve on in their games instead of attributing player response to factors outside their control (and hence fail to reform).

On a wider note, it is imperative that we communicate to the devs in a constructive and respectful manner. This is the baseline expectation of a civilised society. However, I must also emphasise that the devs must play their part in helping to foster such a community, via forum mods that go beyond censorship to become role models by partaking in the discussion constructively (as with other AE forums) and by responding to feedback (perhaps a summary every month?). As I've repeatedly argued, if players don't feel like they're being heard when they're talking politely, they're going to start shouting. If the devs still act like they're deaf, players will eventually walk away in disgruntled resignation. I understand the devs' constraints, but this means they simply have to weigh what they think is more important for the game - proper communication to help shape a more cultured forum community and enjoyable gaming experience overall, or designing yet another sword.

< Message edited by Silver Sky Magician -- 7/4/2014 2:59:01 >
Post #: 38
7/4/2014 3:14:31   
Ranloth
Banned


 Aye. That's why I said AE Games in general, not just ED and Omega.

In terms of Forum and the censorship, the Devs have no control over that. They don't really have control over the ED Forum, really, since I've tweeted about it a few times and had Charfade reply once or twice. In fact, there was a mention of them being locked out at times - having "IP issues" which Nulgath also has/had a month or two ago, and higher ups "trying" to fix it, last time I spoke with a Head Admin. Whether it's an actual issue or an excuse, that's not me to decide nor go into it too deep, if we want the thread running.
That's the reason why they favour Twitter over Forum. Reddit exists too, with the only rules being "be nice" and no NSFW content. Censorship rule isn't there, you can day whatever you want, just don't go too far (in general, so NSFW, etc.).
AQW Devs ended up in the same way, or at least vast majority of them. Rather than them possibly ignoring Forum purposely (as some people say), they just don't like how it's run. The rules also apply to them + NDA (since they work for AE), so they can say even less.

Reddit is the reason for the lack of communication via Forum. It's easier to manage, some Devs use it (not just ED) + Char herself visits it almost daily and replies to people, less rules (more freedom), and currently smaller community so there's higher chance of getting a reply. It's not that they don't want to communicate with players (via Forum), but more along the lines of them not being able to due to various "issues". Char has covered this topic too, on Reddit, /r/Artix, which mentions the same thing as I say here. So, if you seek an alternative to Forum and want to say anything you want + possibly get a reply if you don't just complain and swear, try Reddit. We should be able to do that on Forum too, right? Due to some other factors, we know it's impossible - for players and Devs alike.

Not disagreeing with you, just explaining the issue.
AQ Epic  Post #: 39
7/4/2014 3:39:02   
Pemberton
Member
 

 This war is a big joke. Full of "visual bugs", war rally is not really explained clearly, war drops rate changing, score too close even though exile leader board is so high and exile always dominate past wars.
Oh wait, this is on top of broken class balance, broken stat balance and broken legendary ranks. This is not about respect, this is about game business and customer satisfaction. Don't bring subjective stuff in epic duel.
Post #: 40
7/4/2014 3:55:40   
Silver Sky Magician
Member


 ^

I don't think this post is either relevant or coherent. This is precisely the problem we have on the forums - garbled complaints with no specificity or suggestions, and which by their language alone threatens the credibility of the poster, instead of highlighting the issue at hand.
Post #: 41
7/4/2014 4:11:54   
Pemberton
Member
 

 If you cannot understand my post and i put so many reasons and you say no specificity then i don't know how to help you.
My complaints are real not some made up stuff or garbled stuffs so yeah. Talk about the game don't attack the forumers.
Post #: 42
7/4/2014 8:36:15   
SMGS
Member

@Yo son - I'm assuming you're responding to DeathGuard here. But, here's the issue. Why should someone who supports the developers be subject to the attacks that they've received, especially over the last few days? How is that the 'freedom of speech' that Rui. referred to?

@Pemberton - Taking the Pyro Fly example that was mentioned earlier, the posts made could have easily said "The devs are liars and scammers. They brought back a rare bot! I wasted my money!" Fortunately, the post went along the lines of "The bot was marked rare, it shouldn't have come back. Couldn't a bot with the same abilities with a different appearance have been made, instead, for the people who bought it already?"
Post #: 43
7/4/2014 9:15:02   
Rui.
Banned

 

 @smgs .. What i said on the post are just examples? If the devs were sorry they shd have given a compensation.. A bunny aux that costed 22k and 2k var was sold for 300 var.. They could have stopped the sale in a day.. Could have done a rollback and given a 2x exp and credit boost as compensation for rollback. No where in the design notes do they talk about bio azreal pyro returning.. When they got them back .. Like mother said the reason was they they were too tactical to be left out, let me give you an example of how apple works.. In the past they released the iphone3 and in a few months decided to lower cost by 50$ approx.. Guess what they did.. They returned 50$ to every customer who had got the phone in the past... Now would a apple customer bother to buy a samsung or any phone out there when they receive suppor like this?? Not really.. Ed's driving their own customers slowly and steadily looking at the past few months.. Do you know that the promo bots sell for 15 var, did you know pyro bot was blockable and with the release this time the laser is deflectable.. All mysterious changes with nothing on design notes.. Previously varium was needed at end level but now with the equip items on at any level i guess they are more focused on converting low level players hence the legendary ranks to cater to high levels.. However sales techniques aside.. When you loose customers trust by the way you what you do.. There is little hope left.. Lets see how we head 1 year from now. @trans here read this http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=21688389&mpage=1&key=� every dev has access to post on the forums..

Post edit. Stay on topic. ~Mecha

< Message edited by Mecha Mario -- 7/4/2014 20:21:31 >
Post #: 44
7/4/2014 9:26:19   
ScarletReaper
Member

@pemberton The devs already posted about why the exile leader board looked so much higher than legion. Exile had a few players that got a rediculous amount of influence through buying it, but the overall influence per player on the legion side was higher because of the higher number of players on legion side. I can vouch for this seeing as how I had 2500-5000 influence on 6 different alts.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 45
7/4/2014 9:35:38   
Rui.
Banned

 

 everyperson is entitles to his opinions Scarlet. It doesnt matter if you had 1 alt or 500 cause you can play 1 alt at a time and the influence gained by your chars are the same as 1 char on the other side. Moreover since the player numbers didnt increase this debate does not hold water. After 3 wars sudden rise of legion numbers over exiles.. We can go back n forth but its not gonna change anything. Now every legion looks at exile and says you won cause of rally - does exile deserve this? You be the judge.
Post #: 46
7/4/2014 12:55:01   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 The war rally didn't hurt the exiles victory. I was keeping track of the war at the every end, there is video and commentary of the whole thing on my twitch if you want to watch it. But long story short after the war rally exile had 50k left and legion had 150+k left. At the end of the war legion had around 79k left while exile war dealing more damage per bomb, i believe it was 6-9 damage more.

Tl;dr legion did 80k in the same amount of time it took exile to do 50k damage with stronger bombs and there is video of this on my twitch.

To be the judge that last stretch of war says exile needed that war rally to win
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 47
7/4/2014 13:14:46   
Mother1
Member

@ OWA

I have to agree with that one, and this was why many legion players were very sore when exile got this war rally which came randomly and many others including yourself wanted a redo.

That was when I remember Rui. meaning that this was similar to a regular due where you are one attack from winning and a luck factor takes your win away.
Epic  Post #: 48
7/4/2014 13:21:30   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 I don't fully support a redo I think it would be interesting but we have had some Exiles go, "hey I like how Legion did this war I think I'll join them next war." And next war if the developers improve the war rally system to not trigger at such a low gap or to not trigger at the end then we should really see the power of both sides

Edit: Had some word brain farts

< Message edited by One Winged Angel1357 -- 7/4/2014 13:22:06 >
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 49
7/4/2014 13:48:08   
Rui.
Banned

 

 Next war it would be nice to see the influence of all the players, that way we can avoid any oppourtunity for pointing fingers at dev intervention. This wouldnt really hurt the servers performance cause the item search has over 1k items and works just fine.
Post #: 50
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