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RE: The Base is Getting Hollow - Discuss to enlarge it please

 
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9/7/2014 13:56:11   
Yo son
Member

Here are a few suggestions:

1; Remove/ stop introducing any type of balance update that gives a direct battle advantage to a certain group.
1.1 You can take a note from aqw, hardcore players are rewarded when the farm for reputation and the do not have to spend 2k acs. Hardcore players are also rewarded because having a rank 10 reputation gives them additional advantage such as more weapon choices/ custom color unlocks while those that just buy it do not.
1.11 In ED this means, replace advantage legendary ranks gives by replacing it from a direct advantage, to one that is indirect.
1.12 An indirect advantage could be having certain shops locked until a certain rank is achieved.
1.13 Giving % discounts to shops, class change, name change e.t.c
1.14 Creating sub ED-forums that are exclusive to certain ranks.

2; Introduce a new a new stat- a universal stat, that improves every skill in the game.
2.1 Variety is bottleneck in this game because we not only have skills that improve with different stats, we also have skills that require us to invest in a specific amount of a stat before we can use it.
2.11 Leave the stats how the are, for example dex still improves defense/ block chance, strength improves primary and secondary etc; but remove the restraint/ benefit the add to skills. Why? because all the do is limit variability.
2.111 Do not increase the amount of stats we already have; if someone want to invest all stat in dex/ tech, then go ahead, but you wont abuse the skill tree because you did not invest in the universal stat; like wise if you want to invest in the universal stat/ abuse it, you wont have any benefit the other stats provide. Give players more things to abuse

3; Support has always been one of the classiest stat- maybe because the players that had class made use of it.
3.1 Seriously, I never felt guilty abusing support, it felt good :D
4; Add a tester server that allows real players to test any update that can change the balance of the game!
4.1 Allow players of all level to try out the update, and give every player a max of 1 hour on the tester server!
4.11 Create a survey forum on ED section, and on the survey ask players to rate the update, what their level range is (i.e 0-10, 11-20 etc), allow us 100 words or less to describe what we think about the update.
5; Determine if Fun>Balance or if Balance>fun or if the are equal. it seems we have destroyed the fun of the game on a quest for balance.


< Message edited by Yo son -- 9/7/2014 13:58:00 >
Post #: 26
9/10/2014 1:23:24   
Pemberton
Member
 

Go back to old phase. Delta Gamma Beta...any of those are better than Omega...
Post #: 27
9/18/2014 12:31:27   
FrostWolv
Member

Well many good and bad things happened during this omega.

Good things:-

1. varium value change making this game more towards f2p.
2. more effort from Developers is seen if compared to past phases.
3. I left

Bad things:-

1. changing passives to actives did increased a build variety by bit but removed class main intellectualism ( now every class can stun, mana take and burn, etc).
2. WEAPONS apart from inbuilt core weapons lost its uniqueness. DIFFERENT STATS of each weapon reduced COPY and PASTE builds and fun part was each of those weapon had its value and now its gone. I still remember players main priority for weapon was its stats and cores which made every weapon exciting and now its weapons are just about cores.
5. Minor advantage for varium players like +4 each on str, tech, dex, and support for a year subscription for 10k varium could have kept the old varium players in this game who left in Omega
3. I didnt want to leave but oh well....

_____________________________

Epic  Post #: 28
9/18/2014 23:50:46   
Thylek Shran
Member

Its pointless to give advices how to improve the game as they get ignored since years.

Just do the following:

1. Switch to the OPed class of the month.
2. Copy OPed build of the month
3. Buy OPed gear of the month (including the violet cheater gun that is so game breaking)

This is the ONLY way to gain balance.

_____________________________


v.35.3 (2016-01-23) ~ beam.to/shran
DF Epic  Post #: 29
9/19/2014 1:51:42   
DeathGuard
Member

@Yo Son: The sub ED-Forums idea for certain rank players won't happen. ED has no affiliation, or better said, power to create such type of sub forums. Only the AE Forum Administrators have the decision in that and why have a group only forum if the only thing it will do is to limit the forums because you wouldn't be given more information than on the regular sections anyway.
Another thing that won't happen is to allow players to test the balance updates. The appropiate testers will be the balance team to go through those. Why is that?
I can list several reasons:
  • Biased opinions against/favoring one class
  • Immature behavior from part of the players
  • Not enough knowledge on how the balance tool works.
  • The tester server is the same as the Developer server. Everything is tested there. Players that aren't part of the ED team won't have access to that server at all.

    About the surveys, that can be done without a survey feature in the ED forum section. Devs read the forums specially the DNs thread were you can give such insight.
    Reading the forums =/= They will reply to your feedback.
    Pretty much most players think that Devs don't read the forums because they don't get a reply but would you want that every player receives a reply or that they invest such time in fixing the players' concerns?

    Titan has already mentioned the Fun> Balance or Balance<Fun theme. He said that every aspect of the game needed to be balanced for him to be satisfied with his work and that's why the ED Team is working on different objectives in different areas: Story, art, balance, updates, features, etc.

    @Thylek: You sound like Xamurai now lol
    Regardless, your "advices" will keep on sinking the players' concerns rather than helping.
    Devs don't ignore such feedback. Not every suggestion you give is always the best for the game, thought I had remind you that.

    Funny thing that you mentioned Azrael Gun and how it is "game-breaking", and I still see you one of the few people who actually complain because of it. If it affects you so much, change your build. If it is your weakness, strengthen that weakness. You can't blame that something is game breaking or unbalanced if you don't even have the intention of even making modifications to your build.


    @On Topic:

    What I had suggest to players is to keep giving useful and constructive feedback because we, the ED Team, read your feedback and take it into consideration.
    In the opposite of what Thylek said, we do care and use some of the suggestions in the game but sometimes suggestions that seem to be great ones tend to be not possible to implement due to new factors that could risk the gameplay appears.

    < Message edited by DeathGuard -- 9/19/2014 1:53:06 >
  • AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 30
    9/19/2014 13:14:39   
    Thylek Shran
    Member

    quote:

    Funny thing that you mentioned Azrael Gun and how it is "game-breaking", and I still see you one of the few people who actually complain because of it. If it affects you so much, change your build. If it is your weakness, strengthen that weakness. You can't blame that something is game breaking or unbalanced if you don't even have the intention of even making modifications to your build.

    I really do sound like Xamurai now as he also detected how broken
    the game mechanics are and that its hopeless to wait for a solution
    from the devs as major problems have not been changed much since
    years.

    Regarding Azraelīs gun,
    everyone is weak against Azraelīs Will and it is hardly counterable.
    Changing builds is not a solution to counter OPed items. To suggest
    that I should change my build is just a common killerphrase to end
    the discussion and no argument as my build is not the problem and
    out of discussion.
    DF Epic  Post #: 31
    9/19/2014 13:56:15   
    edwardvulture
    Member

    The thing that has bothered me the most other than the lack of regard for balance is when they removed enhancements then added legendary ranks. Sure one was pay4win and the other one was play2win, but this excludes so much more players then what enhancements was.
    AQ DF MQ  Post #: 32
    9/19/2014 16:38:54   
    DeathGuard
    Member

    quote:

    I really do sound like Xamurai now as he also detected how broken
    the game mechanics are and that its hopeless to wait for a solution
    from the devs as major problems have not been changed much since
    years.

    Regarding Azraelīs gun,
    everyone is weak against Azraelīs Will and it is hardly counterable.
    Changing builds is not a solution to counter OPed items. To suggest
    that I should change my build is just a common killerphrase to end
    the discussion and no argument as my build is not the problem and
    out of discussion.

    I agree that he mentioned several broken game mechanics but that isn't what I meant. His attitude supposedly was to help but he miserably showed his hypocrite side. Now I'm just disappointed on how you're acting just because you ain't seeing what you want. Sadly, it isn't even near the correct way to act or to even post. I had see it as an unconstructive post to suggest people to use OP builds.

    Yes, everyone is susceptible to such core, but how it affects is different. It has few uses on me since either they need the energy for skills or heal rather than the core.
    Changing isn't bad. You can maintain your current base build and improve it to strengthen the weakness you have. Either just saying how your stats or skills are arranged in a defensive aspect could make it. If you're a semi-tank, strengthen a bit your defenses. If you're a caster, try to find a way to counter or to prevent the use of such core.
    Saying it is gamebreaking is going overboard. It has been nerfed not just with damage but with the energy requirement. At least, you don't get a wasted turn and deal damage not like the stun than you actually get skipped. That could be considered gamebreaking but it isn't.
    AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 33
    9/19/2014 23:05:57   
    Pemberton
    Member
     

    Easy to counter azreal gun just change to Str build thylik.
    Post #: 34
    9/19/2014 23:58:41   
      Exploding Penguin
    Moderator


    To improve the playerbase...

    Spend more time working on overhauling the battle mechanics and engine by adding something new and really interesting. Time time can be easily obtained by spending less on implementing more equipment... seriously. They're releasing more equipment than in the previous phases where equipment had unique stats and requirements, and that was when new equipment was actually worth looking at. Why make even more equipment when they're all exactly the same, rather than focusing on the things everyone on the forums complains about.
    Epic  Post #: 35
    9/20/2014 0:49:57   
    DeltaNoob123456789
    Member

    Just go back to Gamma(Not the phase, but like the battle system but not old weps) and the most of the player base will come back
    Post #: 36
    9/21/2014 10:57:42   
    MrBones
    Member

    I have been out of the game for almost a year but still log in to play new missions and grab any new cheevo available. These [cheevos & missions] are the only things bringing me back to game.
    I consider myself an old player, joined the game mid Gamma. Like many, I had high hopes for this indy game and spent over 1k real dollars on it.
    Battle enough to reach emperor rank, legendary rank, keeping an average of 90% wins. Currently 3 blue stars. Won the daily 1vs1 during the highest traffic this game has seen (end-Gamma beginning of Delta phase).
    Does my opinion matter more because of all these personal achievements ? Absolutly not, but I believe I should be taken very seriously.
    I know most of the old famous players, the ones that put a lot of efforts (and money) on the game when it started. All but a few are long gone. They are many reasons why, but to me, here is the one that stands out from the rest.

    As much as I was fed up back then with enhancements, over powered promo packages coming out every months, I now realize that it was not that bad. By changing the core and foundation of the game, the game lost it's soul.
    It as been very well documented that the 'pay-to-win' gaming model do not work in north america or europe. Although being perfectly acceptable in asians countries to buy a 5000$ sword and run around killing everybody, it just doesn't work here.. Or does it ?

    The varium advantage enhancements and the promo packages was the glue that kept the game together. Players kept coming in to see what new items would come out.
    These new items, with fixed stats, could be the key to a new and crazy build.. but only if you had them and they were out for a limited time! New players that joined the game at that time, like me, started dreaming about owning some of these premium items.
    Oh the things I could do if I had (insert any gear). They kept playing, leveling, trying to get powerful enough to be able to buy and use these weapons. Remember back then they had a minimum level.
    An old player had a definitive advantage because he could make builds combining different promo items (auxi, guns, and swords) over a newer player that bough only one promo, or none, and just gotten started. Having 'seniority' actually meant something and had a tangible advantage.

    As for one of the biggest problem in ED now, clone builds, I believe they were less noticeable back then. Don't get me wrong, they always existed and forever will with a game like this. Why?
    Due to the fact that for most of the high powered build you needed the perfect combo of gear. That meant some builds could only be available to you after playing through a whole year, carefully choosing among seasonal rares.
    Missed the item you desperately needed for the crazy build you invented? No problems, keep playing until it get back or better, wait until something new comes out and make your build even more perfect.

    Oh I can already hear some of my fellow forumites scream (>_> looking at you Remorse). Enhancements were so bad, we hated them!! But that is how the game was build. That WAS the game.
    Numbers never lies. Nobody plays the game anymore and even worst, nobody sticks around. I truly think the 'pay-to-win' model worked with that game. I recall the discussions back then, just before the company made a 180° turn.
    People were arguing, and I was with them, that we needed more free-to-play players. Varium was too strong we said. They were so many threads about that subject. But what has become of varium nowdays? AND were are all these new players that we were supposed to get with the new system???

    To me, varium is only artwork now. That is all. Realistically, you don't need a lot of gear now to get by. One or 2 maxed out items of each kind and your ok. Why would a player invest more just for artwork ? Some do of course, but they are a very small minority.
    They could at least encourage the ones that do invest and collect (some call them committed, others hoarders) with an upgradable rarity cheevo for example. Back then, high prices for premium items were justified by the strength and usability in-game.
    Now, for that same price, all I get is artwork. Not worth it in my opinion.

    I am well aware that discussing money is frown upon here. I hope that I did a good job explaining my opinion, without stepping over the line.

    And for the ones that still thinks that the game is going down because of balance, you should learn to let go. True balance cannot and will never be achievable.
    How can you have 100 % of the player population win at least 90% of theirs fights ?? Everybody wants to win. But for every winner, there is a loser.
    True balance at 50% win ratio, making the game a 'coin toss'? I for one, would never enjoy such a thing. Bring back support. Open the game. Let focus go. No more diminishing effects. Let players go crazy.
    AND for god's sake fix the energy issue. Don't wait for me or the community for the genious idea. You guys [devs] fix it. You are the pros, I loved your game at first sight back then and trust you will come up with a decent idea.

    In a nut shell, the game feels less exciting in general. I feel the game is not as good as it used to be. Lost the flavor. Look at the numbers of players in the server (notice no 's' at the end of server for there is no need for more than one anymore).
    Am I the only one feeling this way ? As I stated previously, numbers never lies . . . .


    Thank you all,
    DBag

    (Edited for typo/content)

    < Message edited by MrBones -- 9/21/2014 17:22:41 >
    Epic  Post #: 37
    9/21/2014 12:07:57   
    comicalbike
    Member

    MrBones well said
    Epic  Post #: 38
    9/21/2014 14:08:48   
      Exploding Penguin
    Moderator


    @MrBones: I personally really liked enhancements because they opened up a lot more individuality in build creation. The problem I had with them was that they cost a lot of varium, and you were pretty much obliged to spend tons of var on enhancing everything unless you wanted to be huge steps behind everyone else.

    Epic  Post #: 39
    9/21/2014 17:07:42   
    MrBones
    Member

    @Exploding Penguin: First of all, let me address the fact that I have seen you exploding for years. It seems a bit fishy..

    On a more serious note, the price problem for the enhancements could have been easily adjust back then. As I mentioned in my original post, they were part of the clone builds solution in my opinion.
    Enhancements, locked cores, fix stats points for all gear resulted in players using all kinds of gear combo for all kinds of builds. Let me repeat that during the old system, the player base was far greater and we had a community!
    The system was far from perfect back then but more enjoyable than the one we have today.

    Funny how during that period we were complaining about always having to battle 'full varium' players (as we used to call them back then). Oh they leveled the field for everybody all right.. but at what price.
    The pay-to-win model worked better than this system period. Again, numbers don't lie.
    With that being said, I can't wait (been waiting from 1 day after the Omega phase release, realizing that it would not work) for the company to turn things over. Less than 500 players on a release day..
    The queue for battles (1vs1) seems to get longer every weeks. I won't even address the 2vs2 waiting time, or match up. Juggernaut anybody ? Yeah I don't think so.

    A quick fix in the mean time to help build a stronger community ? We need a lounge, fortress, call it what you want. We need another 'OZ world 7' for people to go hang out, brag about achievement, recruit for their guilds etc.
    I'm no coding expert but I think it should be fairly easy. Make them for emperors only maybe to reward older players ? Any other criteria to get access to it would work too. Just hard enough to motivate players to keep playing.

    The Infernal war with the so promising NPC pairing match up system, NPC battles for those who liked it.. all gone gone gone..

    The base is getting hollow? The base in long gone and the only thing left is a couple muddy players sheltering under a tarp.

    DBag

    (Edited for typos/content)

    < Message edited by MrBones -- 9/21/2014 17:24:32 >
    Epic  Post #: 40
    9/21/2014 17:47:29   
    Mother1
    Member

    Sadly Mr. Bones has a major point.

    If Epic duel wanted to be truly free to play they should have done it from the beginning. Making the game Pay to win for the longest time (which scared away the majority of free to play players due to this as well as made the majority of the player base pay to play) Only to decide later to make the game free to play for the minority was a bad gamble.

    It was basically giving the finger to the majority of the community.

    Not only this, but they never fixed the issues most were unhappy about while removing what most loved. The end result is what we have here.

    While the staff did make some changes that did improve the game in a sense the game has fallen upon hard times big time.
    Epic  Post #: 41
    9/21/2014 18:03:02   
      Battle Elf
    has ten 1v1 wins


    Hi everyone,

    Moved this thread from the GD to Suggestions. Additionally, please offer ways to improve the player-base instead of simply stating reasons for decline.

    Thanks,
    Battle Elf
    ED GD Archknight
    AQW Epic  Post #: 42
    9/21/2014 19:05:42   
      Exploding Penguin
    Moderator


    quote:

    @Exploding Penguin: First of all, let me address the fact that I have seen you exploding for years. It seems a bit fishy..


    Masochism. I love exploding. It hurts so good.

    Anyhoo, I agree that people need another place to go burn their time and socialize with each other like the old oz7 that we all know and love. Slayer was also a pretty popular place too because you had to talk to him if you wanted to jugg.

    The introduction of a free house for everyone ended up with people just holing themselves up in their house and not leaving... kind of like a lifestyle we all know.

    I'm kind of thinking that we could maybe increase the community by having a menu button with "player hotspots," where you can view a list of the rooms that currently host the most people. These rooms could be anything from maps in the world to people's houses. On this list, you could jump to that player hotspot, or, if it was a house owned by someone, you could PM the house owner or request access if the house was locked and set to limited access. This way people could easily get together in the same room and all have fun talking.
    Epic  Post #: 43
    9/21/2014 19:24:21   
    suboto
    Member

    Perhaps for inviteing/getting a friend to join epicduel we recieve an achievement.
    tier 1-3
    Tier 1 requirement 1friend
    tier 2 requirement 10friends
    tier 3 requirement 20friends
    Wouldnt cause inflation

    Once a year epicduel airs a commercial on tv the day before its biggest release/update.

    theres two possible ideas
    the first idea i believe would raise the dailly population:
    258-568 currently ~~~> to 500-858

    the 2nd idea i believe would raise the dailly population:
    282-568~~>500-1200. Only issue with the 2nd idea is the cost of a commercial but overall would be greater worth it in the longer run seeing as the base up by 2x more.

    But to begin the 1st idea is necessary to test out how much that improves.

    But about the 1st idea if i was like 11-14 and i saw a tv commercial about epicduel and it was cool with yetis battleing and explosives bursting as players battled one and other i would start playing that game that vary day.
    Put them both together and your looking at about 1000 more players thats alot thats 2 servers almost full

    < Message edited by suboto -- 9/21/2014 19:26:26 >
    Epic  Post #: 44
    9/23/2014 18:27:41   
    The Basic Instinct
    Member

    How about more areas and places and cooler in game weapons? I'm sure that wouldn't hurt.
    DF AQW Epic  Post #: 45
    9/26/2014 2:42:06   
    Thylek Shran
    Member

    quote:

    @MrBones: I personally really liked enhancements because they opened up a lot more individuality in build creation. The problem I had with them was that they cost a lot of varium, and you were pretty much obliged to spend tons of var on enhancing everything unless you wanted to be huge steps behind everyone else.

    I never had a big problem with enhancements as they made it possible for
    non varium players like me to finally being able to competete with alot varium players.
    But well we have new enhancements now which are the cores and legendary ranks.
    The Legendary system has basically a similar effect than the old enhancements:
    You gain power by playing alot which gives you the credits to buy enhancements
    or Legendary slots. Just that the Legendary ranks could not being bought directly
    by varium but indirectly by experience boosters, (stat) cores, and promo sets.

    The dilemma of todays ED is that it has never overcome all Omega issues and that
    the devs concentrated to much on spamming weapons and other content instead,
    which made them look incompetent. Also the game stopped to evolve with Omega
    as about all good suggested ideas and improvements never made it into the game.
    As example the faction system is so broken and obsolete now with Dread War 2.0
    and no improvements had been made there since the mail system update.
    Also the Juggernaut mode is broken since 1.5 years now !

    ED has become to much like other AE games where old things just get repeated
    in a new dress. Like new weapons and armors which are mostly just art. Or the
    never ending and boring missions and bosses. Boring because they get repeated
    over and over just with some minor changes. ED has become to much of a
    soulless and consumable (buy new stuff and be happy!) dress-up game like AQW
    with not much creative updates that would evolve the game and attract new
    customers/players. This is sad as the suggestion forums are full of amazing ideas
    that could be implemented.
    DF Epic  Post #: 46
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