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RE: =OS= Beta Release Thread 153 - Read the first post!

 
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2/2/2015 21:59:14   
Elite Tuga
Member

quote:

Idk if anyone has noticed but Grimlords deck has changed all the 200 dmg cards have been replaced with 500's


I'm glad 'TheSage' listened to our plea! His deck is definitely better. Thank-you! :D Now I'm going to get myself a Grimlord soon. :D

We can accomplish anything if we speak our minds, respectively!
Epic  Post #: 451
2/2/2015 23:59:10   
Gorillo Titan
Member

Why wasn't godzirra deck changed after people voiced legit reasons why it should of been changed but after a few people begged grimlord was changed its unfair in my opinion -_-
Post #: 452
2/3/2015 0:09:36   
The Jop
Member

I guess because it has some 500 attacks, while Grimlord had only 200 attacks. It could use less 200 attacks, but it's nothing CC can't fix.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 453
2/3/2015 0:25:08   
Gorillo Titan
Member

dragzirra is better than godzirra though it makes no sense to spend sgs and a get a weaker character .
Post #: 454
2/3/2015 0:41:52   
The Finnish Phoenix
Member

That Godzirra's base deck is worse than Dragzirra's is something that CC can't fix though. This can be demonstrated fairly easily, as the only differences in their decks involve cards that deal straight damage.

Dragzirra has:

200 x2
500 x4
FireBall x2

Totalling 8 cards that deal 4400 damage for 36 energy.

Godzirra has:

200 x4
500 x2
FireBall x1
Meteorite x1

Totalling 8 cards that deal 4300 damage for 36 energy.

Their remaining 7 cards are identical:

Defend x2
Inferno x2
Incinerate x1
Fire Whirl x2

In a game in which the objective is to reduce opponents' HP to 0, Godzirra's deck is therefore worse than Dragzirra's because it deals less damage for the same amount of energy.

Now, this is a negligible difference and for all intents and purposes a Godzirra should be able to accomplish anything a Dragzirra could, but losing 20 levels and 6 SG's to make your character's deck worse is absurd. Godzirra's deck should not be equal to Dragzirra's let alone slightly worse, for the cost of evolution it should be markedly better and it isn't, which is unfortunate.

AQ DF MQ  Post #: 455
2/3/2015 0:45:53   
Gorillo Titan
Member

It should of kept the 4 500s at least and gained a incinerate and a shield for the inferno's .
Post #: 456
2/3/2015 1:30:43   
clintonian
Member

Hmm wonder why the captain is on so late
Post #: 457
2/3/2015 1:37:34   
Gorillo Titan
Member

The captain does his coding for OS on tuesdays might be something new coming.
Post #: 458
2/3/2015 2:04:16   
megakyle777
Member

Or, it's more likely Server Checkups and Fixes. The Captain from what I understand is mostly focused on the server side of things. Now if we see Rolith or Warlic or someone who mostly does coding on there, then is the time to get excited.
DF  Post #: 459
2/3/2015 8:10:39   
elite dark slayer
Member

Did I see a Pontianak in the previous page? So, is a Oversoul, which is a ghost, gonna possess a Pontianak, which is also a ghost? Wow.
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 460
2/3/2015 8:48:36   
Gorillo Titan
Member

Captain does promos and he does server maintenance.
Post #: 461
2/3/2015 8:52:56   
megakyle777
Member

Point is it's unlikely to be a update.
DF  Post #: 462
2/3/2015 9:22:47   
Gorillo Titan
Member

Actually it is possible not a content update but a bug fix update like fixing malakai shop.


Just experienced a bug I had a full hand then drew a card and one of my cards disappeared I drew again and got the same card back.

Post #: 463
2/3/2015 13:39:58   
Elite Tuga
Member

quote:

Anyone got word of the contest character winners if not tuga should talk to the person he's always talking to, too see if they can find out.


I've already said before that I have spoken about it to Staff & she told me "Nulgath has not forgotten at all about the AQW contest characters. It was all a misunderstanding from the beginning, that players thought these characters would come all at once or one after another in a short period of time, but it is not that way. Nulgath will release the rest individually but only at the right time planned." So don't worry guy(s).
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

quote:

That Godzirra's base deck is worse than Dragzirra's is something that CC can't fix though. This can be demonstrated fairly easily, as the only differences in their decks involve cards that deal straight damage.

Dragzirra has:

200 x2
500 x4
FireBall x2

Totalling 8 cards that deal 4400 damage for 36 energy.

Godzirra has:

200 x4
500 x2
FireBall x1
Meteorite x1

Totalling 8 cards that deal 4300 damage for 36 energy.

Their remaining 7 cards are identical:

Defend x2
Inferno x2
Incinerate x1
Fire Whirl x2

In a game in which the objective is to reduce opponents' HP to 0, Godzirra's deck is therefore worse than Dragzirra's because it deals less damage for the same amount of energy.

Now, this is a negligible difference and for all intents and purposes a Godzirra should be able to accomplish anything a Dragzirra could, but losing 20 levels and 6 SG's to make your character's deck worse is absurd. Godzirra's deck should not be equal to Dragzirra's let alone slightly worse, for the cost of evolution it should be markedly better and it isn't, which is unfortunate.


Good analogy TFP, this should be forwarded to 'TheSage' he would change the cards if we asked him, respectively. At least 1x 500 ATK should replace one of the 200's, its a small difference but would put Godzirra by 200 ATK lead (4600ATK for 36Energy). It's SG too, so it deserves the alter just like Grimlord did. (PM Sage or Tweet him) You have a good point & all our support.
Epic  Post #: 464
2/3/2015 14:04:26   
Gorillo Titan
Member

People didn't expect them all at one time when he stopped putting them in the coming soon section it annoyed people.
Post #: 465
2/3/2015 14:50:46   
Elite Tuga
Member

quote:

People didn't expect them all at one time when he stopped putting them in the coming soon section it annoyed people.


Ye well despite that, a lot of players in-game still did expect them to come by faster & were worried Nulgath could have forgotten to bring them. Anyway now we OS players can have more certainty that the contest winners will come by, as Nulgath has them in his memo. we just got to wait longer to see them all in-game.
Epic  Post #: 466
2/3/2015 16:00:01   
DarkLore
Member

In case nobody knew this, All jacks and Rudolpheous Still spawn in ice areas in the north map. Makes Moose finding probability a lot lower with TA on top of that. And I use the term quite loosely. A cookie to whoever gets the reference to that last sentence. LOL!
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 467
2/3/2015 16:44:27   
The Finnish Phoenix
Member

quote:


Good analogy TFP, this should be forwarded to 'TheSage' he would change the cards if we asked him, respectively. At least 1x 500 ATK should replace one of the 200's, its a small difference but would put Godzirra by 200 ATK lead (4600ATK for 36Energy). It's SG too, so it deserves the alter just like Grimlord did. (PM Sage or Tweet him) You have a good point & all our support.


Thanks, I've mentioned this to Sage and Asuka in-game shortly after Godzirra's release but to no avail. So much time has passed now that I've come to expect all the 'zirras to just be phased out and become a thing of the past anyways, but at least they look cool. I wish you luck and success in further changes for the better!

Replacing one of Godzirra's 200's with a 500 would be a good start and would improve Godzirra's damage-per-energy as 500's are more efficient than 200's, but because of the extra 2 points of energy cost it would be 4600 for 38 energy which still puts Godzirra's damage per energy for instant attacks slightly lower than Dragzirra's.

Dragzirra's instant attacks' damage-per-energy: 4400/36 = 122.2
Godzirra's instant attacks' damage-per-energy with a 200 changed to a 500: 4600/38 = 121.1
Godzirra's instant attacks' damage-per-energy now: 4300/36 = 119.4

However, if you were to change two of the attacks to 500's (making Godzirra's attack cards the same as Dragzirra's) you'd have 4900 damage for 40 energy, which would be 122.5 damage per energy for instant attacks. This would result in a negligible lead in that department for Godzirra, but acts as a bare minimum for making its overall instant damage more efficient. The only difference in their decks would then be a Fireball swapped for a Meteorite. But this would still arguably be worse for Godzirra.

500, FireBall, and Meteorite all do 125 damage per energy, but because Meteorite converts a bit more energy at that ratio it tips the overall average energy closer to 125 than the other instant attacks. This is an improvement if you're aiming to do 125 damage per energy, but in tandem with the best of the 'zirras other cards and CC's, you should be aiming to do quite a bit more than 125 damage per energy overall, where Meteorite will bring you closer to 125 damage per energy anyway and actually limit your potential output. This means Meteorite is actually a worse card than FireBall, which itself is worse to use than a 500 because the more energy you convert at 125 damage per energy, the less you can convert at more than that.

This in mind, I would prefer something like Gorillo's suggestion of keeping Godzirra's attack cards the same as Dragzirra's in addition to changing Godzirra's Infernos to an Incinerate and a Defend, as Inferno does an awful 75 damage per energy (it also Pierces which essentially is a chance to negate energy converted to shields, but that's only a factor if you can finish with it while your opponent has Shields up, which because it doesn't do much damage is too little of the time to make it worth having multiple copies of in a deck like Godzirra's. Godzirra's deck should be better than Dragzirra's without ambiguity, just as Templar's is better than Light Guardian's.

An Incinerate-boosted 500 does 1100 damage for 6 energy. That's 183.3 damage per energy. A Defend gives 166.7 shields per energy. They have other drawbacks as you need to use up most of your hand for Incinerate, shields can be pierced, and neither of these cards convert much energy, but these are cards that help out a lot more in converting an average of more than 125 points per energy than Inferno, which is more likely to drag you down. I discard Infernoes religiously. I like Gorillo's idea because it also would make Godzirra's deck significantly better than Dragzirra's, which it deserves to be given that it requires you to reset a Level 20 Dragzirra to 0 in addition to 6 Soul Gems, which is no small cost.

I mentioned earlier that 500 > FireBall > Meteorite if you're trying to do more than 125-per-energy. This also means 500 would be better than two 500's, and zero 500's would be better than a 500 in that you're trying to avoid converting any energy at 125-per-point if you can avoid it. However, sometimes you don't have a choice, especially when you can only convert a limited amount of energy above that ratio. The same goes for Shadowfire, which is why I'm not crazy about the trend of multiple ShadowFires on recent Shadow Legends and have opted not to get Young Rev or GrimLord.

ShadowFire used to be super cool back when Black Dragon was the only character that had it with Black Dragon happening to be an extremely good character in those days due to its other cards, but Shadowfire itself actually isn't a very good card at all. Poisons, Defends, Marks, Empowered attacks, and Void Reflections can all convert more damage per energy (as can Black Dragon's Bash and Thrash). Granted, DoT's come with the risk of not resolving to completion meaning they have a chance to deal less damage per energy if they can't run their course, but most of the time (especially at higher levels) Mark and Poison will have the 2 and 3 respective turns that they need to do 150 per energy and outpace Shadowfire. Shadow Fire also gains stock against opponents with Iron Hide since it can't be anticipated by it (as Mark is very prone to), but anything with Shadow Fire is in trouble against relevant characters with Iron Hide to begin with because they have to compromise so much efficiency to play around Iron Hide.

Because they convert as much energy as they do, cards like Shadowfire and Meteorite are best used to speed up battles you're not going to lose in the first place (such as against computers and lower-level opponents). They get worse as your opponents get better and as you level up.



< Message edited by The Finnish Phoenix -- 2/3/2015 16:52:38 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 468
2/3/2015 16:53:24   
The Jop
Member

Wow, that was really interesting to read. You're basically Dr. Oversoul. You have to be one of the leading experts in the game.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 469
2/3/2015 17:00:37   
The Finnish Phoenix
Member

Thanks! I'm glad there're still people out there for whom my tangential rants aren't tl;dr. :D
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 470
2/3/2015 17:17:32   
Elite Tuga
Member

quote:

Thanks, I've mentioned this to Sage and Asuka in-game shortly after Godzirra's release but to no avail. So much time has passed now that I've come to expect all the 'zirras to just be phased out and become a thing of the past anyways, but at least they look cool. I wish you luck and success in further changes for the better!


Thanks, but I can't do anything without support, only if at least around half a dozen of us support something with reason then we might see a "change."

quote:

Replacing one of Godzirra's 200's with a 500 would be a good start and would improve Godzirra's damage-per-energy as 500's are more efficient than 200's, but because of the extra 2 points of energy cost it would be 4600 for 38 energy which still puts Godzirra's damage per energy for instant attacks slightly lower than Dragzirra's.
Dragzirra's instant attacks' damage-per-energy: 4400/36 = 122.2
Godzirra's instant attacks' damage-per-energy with a 200 changed to a 500: 4600/38 = 121.1
Godzirra's instant attacks' damage-per-energy now: 4300/36 = 119.4


quote:

However, if you were to change two of the attacks to 500's (making Godzirra's attack cards the same as Dragzirra's) you'd have 4900 damage for 40 energy, which would be 122.5 damage per energy for instant attacks. This would result in a negligible lead in that department for Godzirra, but acts as a bare minimum for making its overall instant damage more efficient. The only difference in their decks would then be a Fireball swapped for a Meteorite. But this would still arguably be worse for Godzirra.


Ye your right, silly me lol. I need sleep. I made a mistake, 2x 500 would do, not 1x as your maths says it all.

500, FireBall, and Meteorite all do 125 damage per energy, but because Meteorite converts a bit more energy at that ratio it tips the overall average energy closer to 125 than the other instant attacks. This is an improvement if you're aiming to do 125 damage per energy, but in tandem with the best of the 'zirras other cards and CC's, you should be aiming to do quite a bit more than 125 damage per energy overall, where Meteorite will bring you closer to 125 damage per energy anyway and actually limit your potential output. This means Meteorite is actually a worse card than FireBall, which itself is worse to use than a 500 because the more energy you convert at 125 damage per energy, the less you can convert at more than that.

quote:

This in mind, I would prefer something like Gorillo's suggestion of keeping Godzirra's attack cards the same as Dragzirra's in addition to changing Godzirra's Infernos to an Incinerate and a Defend, as Inferno does an awful 75 damage per energy (it also Pierces which essentially is a chance to negate energy converted to shields, but that's only a factor if you can finish with it while your opponent has Shields up, which because it doesn't do much damage is too little of the time to make it worth having multiple copies of in a deck like Godzirra's. Godzirra's deck should be better than Dragzirra's without ambiguity, just as Templar's is better than Light Guardian's.


Ye I agree , tbh I don't mind where the change would be, as long as logically it could be better & more energy efficient than Dragzirra it's a win situation for me.

quote:

An Incinerate-boosted 500 does 1100 damage for 6 energy. That's 183.3 damage per energy. A Defend gives 166.7 shields per energy. They have other drawbacks as you need to use up most of your hand for Incinerate, shields can be pierced, and neither of these cards convert much energy, but these are cards that help out a lot more in converting an average of more than 125 points per energy than Inferno, which is more likely to drag you down. I discard Infernoes religiously. I like Gorillo's idea because it also would make Godzirra's deck significantly better than Dragzirra's, which it deserves to be given that it requires you to reset a Level 20 Dragzirra to 0 in addition to 6 Soul Gems, which is no small cost.

I mentioned earlier that 500 > FireBall > Meteorite if you're trying to do more than 125-per-energy. This also means 500 would be better than two 500's, and zero 500's would be better than a 500 in that you're trying to avoid converting any energy at 125-per-point if you can avoid it. The same goes for Shadowfire, which is why I'm not crazy about the trend of multiple ShadowFires on recent Shadow Legends and have opted not to get Young Rev or GrimLord.

ShadowFire used to be super cool back when Black Dragon was the only character that had it with Black Dragon happening to be an extremely good character in those days due to its other cards, but Shadowfire itself actually isn't a very good card at all. Poisons, Defends, Marks, Empowered attacks, and Void Reflections can all convert more damage per energy (as can Black Dragon's Bash and Thrash). Granted, DoT's come with the risk of not resolving to completion meaning they have a chance to deal less damage per energy if they can't run their course, but most of the time (especially at higher levels) Mark and Poison will have the 2 and 3 respective turns that they need to do 150 per energy and outpace Shadowfire. Shadow Fire also gains stock against opponents with Iron Hide since it can't be anticipated by it (as Mark is very prone to), but anything with Shadow Fire is in trouble against relevant characters with Iron Hide to begin with because they have to compromise so much efficiency to play around Iron Hide.

Because they convert as much energy as they do, cards like Shadowfire and Meteorite are best used to speed up battles you're not going to lose in the first place (such as against computers and lower-level opponents). They get worse as your opponents get better and as you level up.


You make very good & interesting points. Thats why we should work together as a unity & conquest our desires, respectfully. At least give it an ultimatum try for change would be appreciated. As many Godzirra fans are unsatisfied up to this day since it's release. The change would also make more players buy the last evolution, which is another reason to see this alter happen as it would contribute to help OS profits.
Epic  Post #: 471
2/3/2015 22:44:34   
Gorillo Titan
Member

Godzirra should of been fire and water if thats the case and its animations should of been more unqiue its a giant mutant fire lizard.
Post #: 472
2/3/2015 22:52:47   
BJEBLE
Member

I think having Water cards in the deck is a really cool idea. What do you guys think about Stone Knight/Stone Assassin evos, I think they're pretty cool base decks would make for some interesting directions their evos could go in.
DF  Post #: 473
2/4/2015 0:45:16   
Gorillo Titan
Member

I would like the fact stone assassin is a female to be more noticeable not like bavaria master form though.

Stone knight might be the worse earth character in game.
Post #: 474
2/4/2015 9:30:21   
WikiMeister
Member

Grimlord's card empowerment revamp was indeed a pleasant and welcome change - but he still serves as a potent and effective Shadow-element Spellcaster :D He just does the job even better now that he is equipped with heavier strike cards.

@Dylligraphy, that was a really enlightening post regarding energy economy and effect potentials. Thank you for that, I've no comment to make other than words of gratitude and admiration for your elucidation
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 475
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