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RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II

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5/3/2015 1:31:11   
Dark Lord Urmi
Member

How about this then we will let the devs decide whats too much work or no...and its not a small amount seeing how there are an equal amount for us on both sides complaining about a possible CHOICE. Also i highly doubt we will be seeing aegis to the point where he is constantly in the story to make a big splash that will "ruin everything" if he was killed by those of use who choose FW in OUR story.

< Message edited by Dark Lord Urmi -- 5/3/2015 1:36:13 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 126
5/3/2015 2:30:23   
VJ
Member

@David
to be frankly honest if they murder their soulally then they should not have a different set of quests that deals with him if there is ever one and they would have to sit those quest chains and would have no reason to be unhappy about having no chance of doing that line.

that way that should limit the amount of code they would have to do other than just checking to see if they have FW.

this is all if Tomix waste any time with this class that so few want.
Post #: 127
5/3/2015 2:36:43   
W.A.R.Z.
Member

I've looked through both threads and made a list of all formite's views that I could tell.
Tell me if I got your view wrong, missed you, made an addition error, etc.
Also remember that this only represents the forums and not the entire player base.

Against (24)
Azan
Chazero
Lord Arkatares
Jorath
megakyle777
Raphael 777
Lord Arkatares
Eltar
Baron Dante
WornDogma
Dragonknight315
KoibatlupeSnowager
Dragonman
Chaoshaper
gakorogirl
Shadows Morgenstern
Daimyo Daimyo
VJ
ergotth
Miran
raylas
god of chaos
David the Wanderer
Rayen

Support/Let people who want it get it (33)
Chaosweaver Amon
monstervet
GreenGuy23
Almighty Agathor
lightriftwalker122
Dragon_MasterN7
Snakezarr
W.A.R.Z.
Zork Knight
Christophisis
The Hollow Soul
Rio3678
ad3022
Brasca123
necro emperor
Sakurai the Cursed
Mordred
AugustoCP
Siedgrief
Dark Lord Urmi
G Man
Deviance
Drop_Bear
Alethral
Kai Kazama
G.t.h
time sage
necro emperor
Meloette Wells
soulus42
Plendamonda2
Glerax
the jop

Edit: Added the jop
Edit 2: Switched Rayen

< Message edited by W.A.R.Z. -- 5/3/2015 12:42:01 >
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 128
5/3/2015 2:55:21   
god of chaos
Member

^. VJ. This. The way I see it, for this to WORK, if it is canon, either there needs to be a second price of being locked away of a quest chain. Or as David says, turn DF into a Visual Novel-RPG mix.
Other than that, I think I need to reinstate my point. Have we not had ENOUGH villain classes already? I am surprised nobody asked for a Wargoth themed class. Villains WILL be made in the future. They WILL be interesting to some people. If we also start asking for classes out of any new dark and cruel fellow in the game, they will require work. Meaning some other work has to come later. While this class could possibly be nice, it is nowhere near as essential theme wise. Maybe get a Soul Smith Tier 3 instead of this?

< Message edited by god of chaos -- 5/3/2015 2:56:28 >
Post #: 129
5/3/2015 3:04:30   
The Jop
Member

I'm against sacrificing Aegis myself, but people can have the class if they want. If they want to be evil.

< Message edited by The Jop -- 5/3/2015 3:15:05 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 130
5/3/2015 3:05:59   
Dark Lord Urmi
Member

god of chaos NO we have not had enough CANON dark classes seeing as there are only two. also ANY class would take work and wouldn't a soul smith class be twice as much work seeing as some may think its would be an upgraded blacksmith class meaning levels need to be thought out what you can make etc etc.

< Message edited by Dark Lord Urmi -- 5/3/2015 3:08:35 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 131
5/3/2015 3:14:43   
god of chaos
Member

^.
1. You don't because the hero ISN'T evil. This has been stated, overstated, confirmed by the staff and devs and is unchanged from that as gar as I know . This isn't a story like AQW, where you can choose sides or something. (Even in AQW you don't get to be that evil, even if you can have canon evil equipment, classes, be undead etc. at best you get a few lines like "For Gravelyn!" Or similar.) You are a Hero in this game, you fight for the helpless or those that need to be saved, not to gain power or devour souls.
2. It is ASSUMED. Nobody confirmed anything on it, because apparently very few people want it. It could very well be a normal T3 DC class.

< Message edited by god of chaos -- 5/3/2015 3:15:41 >
Post #: 132
5/3/2015 3:30:12   
VJ
Member

GOC
they will never have enough, they give in now then if people want wargoth and so on they will have people going "I Want it, I want it, See many want it, so we must get it!!!!"
that's all I am seeing here, nothing more.

I hate to say it by they have spoiled the fan base way to much and now there may never be enough. they will want more villain classes, want this and want that.. sometimes they need to say no and the fw would be a perfect time to start.

if not for that than everything else David and others have stated.
Post #: 133
5/3/2015 3:32:53   
Dark Lord Urmi
Member

i said dark not evil. And you can do deplorable things and still be good and since it was the devs who said if it happened our spirit ally would be consumed so ANYTHING can happen our hero CAN make a massive "mistake". just because you dont want it does not mean others shouldn't be able to use it. Also you guys are kinda acting like that "WE DONT WANT IT DONT PUT IT IN EVER!!!!!!" so set in your ways any bit of change becomes something to fight against even if it wont effect you.

< Message edited by Dark Lord Urmi -- 5/3/2015 3:36:04 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 134
5/3/2015 3:44:59   
god of chaos
Member

^DLU. Except this being canon kind of affects the story? And we are not supposed to you know, write the story of this game? It will be too much for its worth and frankly it is simply "oh, so it is dark and there is only one really nasty villain who has it. Must have!" the way I see it this far. This has happened a lot in the past and it will likely keep happening. I am simply displeased with it and I'd rather have the devs make another form of class or advance the story a little bit more than focus their effort into putting this in the game.
If I DID come out the way you described, I apologize. I think it SHOULDN'T be in the game, for several reasons. If more people want it at large then of course they CAN have it.

< Message edited by god of chaos -- 5/3/2015 3:47:58 >
Post #: 135
5/3/2015 4:01:20   
VJ
Member

GOC that I am sure was 100% meant towards me and I will not apologize for my point of view and as I said before if they keep giving in than the next thing you know we will have a bunch of wargoth clones running around.

and as you said as well I would rather the team focus on the story and fixing the things that needs to be done and along with what David and others have stated.

also dlu I am not set in my ways, I don't mind changes as changes have to happen to keep the story fresh and going. however what you want and what is needed are not the same thing.

and as I said before the team has spoiled many of the fans by giving in.
somethings just are not meant to be. can't always have what you want.

what I and many others want is whats good for the game over all and have strong feelings about the fw and have given in my opinion a far better reason why not to have it in game than those who want it.

their only reason is "Because I WANT, I want, I want, look how many want it so give me, give me, give me!"

those are not good reasons to have it in the game.

those who are against have these reasons:
It is immoral
Will take more time to do it
Have to craft extra quest for it
Could have quest lines that need the SoulAlly in it
If there is one than those who are fw would not be happy because they would be left out forcing the team to make another quest line for it or just flat out not give them one.
and so much more that others have stated.

those who want it's reason:
I want it
I want it
I want it
See many want it
Ect.
Post #: 136
5/3/2015 4:02:44   
megakyle777
Member

I'd just like to clarify my viewpoint a little here: I have no issue with the Fleshweaver class idea myself, in fact it could be kinda fun working like a Evil Berzerker where you use your life and theirs as mp rather then MP. And goodness knows I've always wanted a Berzerker life type class. My issues is with the canonnicy and the moral, development, and gameplay (locking off threee classes and a ally) costs of it. By all means, have it as a DC Non Canon class if people want it that much. But as it would be canon and have such costs, all three costs are too high.
DF  Post #: 137
5/3/2015 4:06:34   
god of chaos
Member

^megakyle777. Much like that. We could have a class that plays the same way, just does not have the same connotations as being a flesh weaver. Instead of having a class that raises such issues why not have something else?
Post #: 138
5/3/2015 4:07:00   
VJ
Member

I thought Rolth(sp) was suppose to give us a Zerker class a long time ago but was placed on the S.O.O.N list, though I am not sure if I am remembering right but if that is the case than Kyle you would have your zerker class without needing to go the fw route ;)

however still 'that would be fun' would fall under not a good reason to have fw in game.

@GOC
That would be a Berserker(sp) class which I think would be a better idea and much easier to code as well.

< Message edited by VJ -- 5/3/2015 4:09:27 >
Post #: 139
5/3/2015 4:11:29   
god of chaos
Member

@VJ. Well it is not quite that. Something being fun should be in the game. As long as it does not ruin things.
Post #: 140
5/3/2015 4:16:13   
Dark Lord Urmi
Member

Actually VJ i want to see our hero almost become seppy almost falling to inner corruption that NO ONE is immune from instead of being a perfect goodie goodie who fails only once in awhile i want a lasting impact that he failed himself NOT someone else like serenity but actually failed HIMSELF/Herself by having a moment of weakness and taking the easy path to power having the weight he has held for YEARS suddenly collapse NO i dont just want this class because i want it gimmie gimmie gimmie i want it to have a lasting impacted choice that I (and by extension the others who choose to become FW) could actually make to shape my character how i want it not how OTHERS want it. I hope it gets implemented and if it does just remember you DONT have to eat him.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 141
5/3/2015 4:19:37   
VJ
Member

^
I am sorry but it still seems like one of those 'give me because I and many want it' with a new added twist to make it seem like thats not what others mean.
the Team, had already said a while back that there will be no option for the Hero to be come evil or have any dark choices that would over all impact the game in such away.
it was during the Vampire, Werewolves discussion where someone brought up the non-canon aqw and how the player was given option, ect.

going with this route would more or less making the team back track on that and I am sure that is something they do not want to do and thus that is another reason no to have this class.

@GOC
I agree, something that can be easily thrown in as non-canon, does not have such heavy immoral actions and something everyone can agree on that will not impact the game like how they have other armors set up for DC, ect.


< Message edited by VJ -- 5/3/2015 4:27:59 >
Post #: 142
5/3/2015 4:28:16   
Dark Lord Urmi
Member

^and it seems the only reason you are against it is because you dont want other people to be able to choose to be one or not. if its a choice like it was so hinted why even care seriously i'll say it again it WONT effect you at all. why does it matter if its a dark choice let those of use who want it choose it while you stay as you were i mean it wont go un punished we would loose soulweaver (even though i never use it but still others may)

< Message edited by Dark Lord Urmi -- 5/3/2015 4:29:17 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 143
5/3/2015 4:35:55   
VJ
Member

No it wasn't actually hinted at, it is more along the lines of people wanting something and they want to quell the commotion in some way.
They managed to stop one type of thing as I mentioned in the past the mix and match armor which had gotten so bad that they made a quest in order to tell the player base 'NO' in their own fun way.

Also It will affect everyone in some form or another.

and I already gave reasons why it shouldn't be in the game, and they are by far more than you give me when I flat out stated why and have a list why it is a bad Idea.

those who are against have these reasons:
It is immoral
Will take more time to do it
Have to craft extra quest for it
Could have quest lines that need the SoulAlly in it
If there is one than those who are fw would not be happy because they would be left out forcing the team to make another quest line for it or just flat out not give them one.

Development costs: The staff need to take time to draws, animate, code and balance this class. Not too much of a issue in itself. Except that you ALSO have to code in a way to lock out Ageis in all forms, and lock out 3 classes from all access permanantly. Meaning you ALSO need to mess with the Amour Closet and all other ways of saving classes.

Gameplay: Since this class would be canon, you need to make constant refference to it. People would need to be reviled by you. You need to write TWO separate types of story and reactions. If one makes it canon, it has to BE canon and referenced. AND to add to that, there would need to be some kind of boost to the class to compenstate the loss of three, otherwise it's not worth it gameplay wise.

above. That is most of the point here, really. The problem isn't FW. The problem is FW being CANON. The Seppy wannabe classic gets his reward in the form of Doom Knight and other dark classes. They are however not canon and as long as they are liked, even though being an overused concept, using a dark and edgy class that one villain has or is related to , it could very well be made, as pong as again, it is not PART of the story in any way.

1: It's not worst the cost. You are locking off One tier 2 class and 2 Tier 3 Classes, for one tier three class of equal power. In gamepllay terms it makes no sense. You gain no additional power, you in fact LOSE some.

2: CHAOSWEAVER WILL BE (acording to the last news on it) A DC CLASS. THERE is the real issue: you are locking off something people have outright paid for.

The issue comes from locking out classes and options in my opinion. You are not just locking out Soulweaver, you are locking out:

Soulweaver
Master Soulweaver
Chaosweaver
Soulsmith (if it ever comes out)
Locking all four of those options from armor closets and the like
Aeis Book 1 and 3

That's four classes and two allies, (one of which (Chaosweaver) will be DC so if you paid for that first tough luck), for one class. It's too much to lock out.
and so much more that others have stated(thanks to megakyle777 & Lord of Chaos).

I will keep adding good reasons against it which to me counters the number who are for it.
quality of quantity as they say.

compared to those that do want it which more or less fall under
I want it
others want it
so give it to us



< Message edited by VJ -- 5/3/2015 5:18:11 >
Post #: 144
5/3/2015 4:43:25   
megakyle777
Member

I feel it important at this point to say: I have no issue with Fleshweaver existing. My issue comes from the COSTS of Fleshweaver existing. let's look at all the cost:

Development costs: The staff need to take time to draws, animate, code and balance this class. Not too much of a issue in itself. Except that you ALSO have to code in a way to lock out Ageis in all forms, and lock out 3 classes from all access permanantly. Meaning you ALSO need to mess with the Amour Closet and all other ways of saving classes.

Gameplay: Since this class would be canon, you need to make constant refference to it. People would need to be reviled by you. You need to write TWO separate types of story and reactions. If one makes it canon, it has to BE canon and referenced. AND to add to that, there would need to be some kind of boost to the class to compenstate the loss of three, otherwise it's not worth it gameplay wise.

Moral: Let''s not go there. We all know the moral costs.

My point is: people want Fleshweaver, yet people ALSO think it's too monstrous to be canon. And to be fair it's a fairly even split.

BUT... there's a compromise possible here. The same option that's ALWAYS been available: MAKE IT A NON CANON DC CLASS.

This way, people get Fleshweaver. People who are moral don't have to worry about their chars having a evil option. THIS way, BOTH SIDES WIN.

< Message edited by megakyle777 -- 5/3/2015 4:44:41 >
DF  Post #: 145
5/3/2015 4:43:27   
god of chaos
Member

^above. That is most of the point here, really. The problem isn't FW. The problem is FW being CANON. The Seppy wannabe classic gets his reward in the form of Doom Knight and other dark classes. They are however not canon and as long as they are liked, even though being an overused concept, using a dark and edgy class that one villain has or is related to , it could very well be made, as pong as again, it is not PART of the story in any way.

< Message edited by god of chaos -- 5/3/2015 4:50:06 >
Post #: 146
5/3/2015 4:49:13   
Dark Lord Urmi
Member

^VJ
It being immoral is irrelevant its all fake.
it ALWAYS takes time to make something
its not like they would drop everything to go and make it
you seem to be over blowing aegis' importance the only time a soul ally would be needed is during weaver type quests and guess what if flesh weavers ate him and got his power he would be pointless altogether.


Im for getting new content that would most definitely enrich the experience then just not. and btw devs are indeed asking if we want it and quite a few of us do enough to equal the amount if not overshadow talking on this specific post. If the devs decide they dont want it then thats their decision and i'll support it but im not going to stop being on board until a decision is made and calling us spoiled is NOT helping anything seeing as WE WERE ASKED -_-
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 147
5/3/2015 4:50:21   
megakyle777
Member

I still think making it a Non Canon DC Class is the best option here. Would be Fleshweavers get their class. The more moral heroes don't need to use it, or can use it without the worry of being "truly evil". Everyone wins. Aside from the poor staff.
DF  Post #: 148
5/3/2015 4:50:35   
Chaoshaper
Member

the only real problem with that is that Tomix said it will either be canon, or it won't be made, if it is made at all. Can we just get over the Fleshweaver arguments discussions and talk about the much less controversial soulsmith? Such as would you prefer it to be a continuation of blacksmith or a class that can use Ele. Spirits to make items to attack/defend with?
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 149
5/3/2015 4:52:19   
megakyle777
Member

Chaosshaper: I agree, I expect Tomix would be upset. I'm just suggesting a compromise that keeps both sides happy.
DF  Post #: 150
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