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RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX

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1/2/2016 13:56:16   
Sakurai the Cursed
Member

No, it gives Valour Impact double the hits and gives Soul Aegis double the duration (and CD) as well. But BaltaelSynch is indeed the main drawing point; it's a very powerful skill, fantastic for obliterating quest mobs quickly.

And TK is definitely a very strong class, but there is no "strongest class" other than perhaps DmK. TK is a hybrid, having great offense and defense, but it's not the very best at either of them so whether that's "better" depends on what you prefer to fight; defenses in particular are barely needed in most fights, and only challenge fights will need more than Asc's standard defenses for example, while Asc can do multiple times the damage of TK. So if you're not looking to fight Extreme Hard Mode challenges, any class with better offenses is going to be "better" at that moment. Since most people don't care much for challenge fights and just want to kill things quickly, there are other classes that will work more for them.

Defensively it's in a better situation, since it has a loopable blind which means it's virtually immortal against single enemies. However it's at a significant disadvantage compared to some defensive classes against multiple tough enemies (not like that happens much anyway though), since its shield has a long CD of 9. So in the theoretical situation that you're fighting an Extreme Hard Mode challenge with multiple enemies, you may need something with better defenses to survive, in which case those would be better at that moment.

Edit: Aww, ninja'd about Baltael. And it is 2 turns, but that includes the turn that you use it and do 0 damage, so you only get 1 turn of applicable Boost.

Edit x2: Actually nevermind, turns out the Boost is 3-turn and the shield is 2-turn. So you can indeed have it boost both Being and Touch, though that doesn't change its ranking any. :D

< Message edited by Sakurai the Cursed -- 1/2/2016 14:05:33 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 101
1/2/2016 14:12:11   
UltimateDoomKnight
Member

All that matters is your foe's abilities that determines which class would suit the best. Timekiller is the perfect TIER 3 class for any kind of situation. There is always one class in one of the tiers that is the strongest. ACL may do multiple damages but they can't deal nearly as much damage as the Timekiller. You forget to add which classes have more cooldown to their strongest abilities because cooldown determines how often you can use a strategy and in the comparision of ACL and TK's case it's the TK that wins. Hybrid classes are usually the best, they might sometimes not have the best defenses or offenses but since they are both of those aspects they can take on any situation better than most of the classes.
I know very well how these things work, Sakurai, and believe me sometimes defense isn't enough against bosses with high BTH and damage like Ricterild. To defeat him, you need either a offensive class or a hybrid one like the Timekiller.

@Sakurai the Cursed BTW, who's being ninja'd here and why are you using the word that way? To be honest, I don't like when it's being used around here against others but I assume that nobody cares about that opinion.
Also, Baltael's Aventail doesn't increase the number of hits for my SW when it comes to the Valour Impact. Besides, it's an interesting artifact but if it's truly going to be something specially useful I would have wanted it to affect all SW skills. Also, how on earth should I know if it did increase Valour's Impact number of hits since it didn't say anything about it on the DF Encyclopedia? The thing about being ninja'd better be a joke or I consider it as an offense because I don't have that sense of humour.

< Message edited by UltimateDoomKnight -- 1/2/2016 14:24:17 >
Post #: 102
1/2/2016 14:31:06   
Solanaceae
Legendary Nightshade


 Here's the wiki entry for the modified SW skills with Baltael's Aventail equipped.

To ninja is to reply to a post before someone else does. In this case, I corrected what the SW artifact modifies before Sakurai did, so I ninja'd them. I guess it's a joke.

High BtH enemies are tricky sometimes, but in the case of Cryptic, for example, you can just get 60 or more D/B/P, and then all your shields will become guaranteed 100% effective (Illusionary Veil is 140 B/D/P, and Illusion is 180 B/D/P) except against something with really high amounts like Aisha (180) or Dr. When (some 4-digit number?).
DF  Post #: 103
1/2/2016 14:42:04   
UltimateDoomKnight
Member

I don't think so about B/D/P because Melee, Pierce and Magic defense have still proven more effective than those defenses since they miss you more often than you block, dodge or parry their attacks.
If B/D/P is going to be guaranteed then it must go up to 200 since the stat changes has divided it's effectiveness with 2 while M/P/M only requires 1 point to become 1% chance for them to miss you.

But I do recall when I fought DF Sepulchure on Hard Mode (Hard Mode replaced his original stats (666 in every stat except WIS) with Hard Mode stats which made him easier. LOL!) that those where much more effective at that time so I'm not quite sure.

< Message edited by UltimateDoomKnight -- 1/2/2016 14:43:40 >
Post #: 104
1/2/2016 14:45:09   
Solanaceae
Legendary Nightshade


 200 B/D/P means attacks will always miss you unless the enemy has an insane amount of bonus. With 60 B/D/P (easily achieved through some defensive items), Cryptic's shields will always put me at or above 200 B/D/P.
DF  Post #: 105
1/2/2016 14:50:07   
UltimateDoomKnight
Member

Well, even though you have 200 B/D/P or 8666 M/P/M you will mostly miss but you can actually still hit your enemy if you're lucky and here's where the stat LUK matters as well since there is only a need of 25 points for BTH chance which means that the BTH can at the moment when you hit an enemy with such high defense the BTH can be at any amount then and the higher your LUK the higher is your chance for BTH (Every 25th point gives an extra chance for BTH).

Despite, when I fought Sepulchure on Hard Mode, that he had such high BTH I still blocked, dodged and parryed some of his attacks.

< Message edited by UltimateDoomKnight -- 1/2/2016 14:51:30 >
Post #: 106
1/2/2016 15:14:51   
Solanaceae
Legendary Nightshade


 Well that's a built-in 1% chance. Every attack has a 1% chance to miss, a 1% chance to hit, regardless of BtH or defenses.
DF  Post #: 107
1/2/2016 15:40:15   
UltimateDoomKnight
Member

That we don't know, it only says that it has a chance to hit, not how much % chance every time because it variates each turn. If you have defenses built up, for example 75 M/P/M, and your foe has 50 BTH then he will have 25% chance to hit you and since B/D/P requires 2 points to be built up with 1% chance it makes them 1% chance less effective than M/P/M.
LUK makes a huge difference here and is like the best stat because it suits every class there is. Regardless what stats you have LUK is what builds up your defenses, BTH, CRIT and extra damage. Sure it requires a lot of points but it's worth it.
With 200 LUK I defeated Super Infernal Wargoth requiring only two-three tries before I succeeded. It makes a HUGE difference, believe me.

< Message edited by UltimateDoomKnight -- 1/2/2016 15:42:37 >
Post #: 108
1/2/2016 19:32:46   
David the Wanderer
Legendary AK!


 Every time a character (player, monster, pet, guest..) does an attack, a 100-sided die is "rolled" by the game engine. If it "lands" on a 1 it's what is called a "Critical One" and is an automatic miss, no matter the character's BtH or target's B/D/P or M/P/M. And obviously if it lands on a 100 it is an automatic hit.
DF AQW  Post #: 109
1/3/2016 8:54:52   
UltimateDoomKnight
Member

Yes, I know about that. That is why I said that the LUK only gives any % until it hits on the right number for scoring a critical hit or the other bonuses.
Post #: 110
1/3/2016 9:24:03   
magicgg96
Member

I don't have any preference in classes, though I always used the Altera Base class a lot.

For my case, I normally use classes that matches the storyline.

For Book 1
In the Dragonsgrasp Saga, I make the hero a Dragonlord class as this class plays an important role in the storyline. Paladin class in the Darkness Orb Saga, Pirate in Oprosy Cove and Ninja in Shadow of the Wind Village in the Wind Orb Saga, Ranger in the Light Orb Saga and Guardian in the Earth Orb Saga. I even try to draw the main male hero(Rarrior and Rogue) and the female support(mage) wear outfits depending on the saga.
Post #: 111
1/3/2016 10:56:48   
Sakurai the Cursed
Member

@UDmK - I was referring to Ascendant, not Ascended Chickencow. And Ascendant does indeed do way, way more damage than TK and it can actually do its damage more often too since its main damage skill only has a CD of 4, while still having enough defense for most things.

And like Epic Durian said, when someones says "ninja'd", it means that while they were typing their reply someone else posted the same thing, beating them to the punch (because ninjas are fast I guess); he posted about Baltael's other effects while I was still typing up my post, so he "ninja'd" me about that. I don't really understand what you would think it means that would be offensive...

< Message edited by Sakurai the Cursed -- 1/3/2016 10:58:09 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 112
1/3/2016 11:03:48   
UltimateDoomKnight
Member

@Sakurai the Cursed
quote:

And like Epic Durian said, when someones says "ninja'd", it means that while they were typing their reply someone else posted the same thing, beating them to the punch (because ninjas are fast I guess); he posted about Baltael's other effects while I was still typing up my post, so he "ninja'd" me about that. I don't really understand what you would think it means that would be offensive...


That is a personal question I won't give an answer to but now I understand so thanks for that. One thing you should consider though, if you don't know it already, that some people who aren't familiar with a word like ninja'd, for example, can, in fact, find it offensive if they don't receive an explanation to it's meaning because of the sound of it and in which sentences and the way others use it. They can misunderstand since the meaning can change depending in which situation and how you use it. But since I understand now I don't find it offensive so you don't have to worry about it.

Ok, I haven't played with Ascendant since I have no character that is a mage but I have seen others play with it and it is very strong. Still, it's quite difficult to determine if Ascendant or Timekiller is stronger and they do rival each other pretty well.

< Message edited by UltimateDoomKnight -- 1/3/2016 11:08:24 >
Post #: 113
1/3/2016 12:41:08   
Sakurai the Cursed
Member

Do you mean offensively or overall? As I said my personal view is that there is no "best" or "strongest" class, because they're all different in terms of strengths and weaknesses, so I would certainly agree if you mean overall strength. But if you meant offensively, Asc is undoubtedly much stronger:

The Wand does 700% damage when Asc's passive is at full power (takes 5 turns) and the enemy is debuffed by The Scythe. Asc also has 3 Boost skills, totaling +85% damage, meaning when fully buffed The Wand does (700x1.85=) 1,295% damage. One of those Boost skills is also the stun so it has a long CD, but you can keep the other two (totaling +60% damage) up for every Wand, meaning after the first burst you can still do (700x1.6=) 1,120% damage every 4 turns (however to do that you do have to sacrifice all defense, because you have to use 4 skills for that setup [The Staff -> The Book Chapter 2 -> The Scythe -> The Wand, and repeat]).

Compare that to TK, which can do at most (500x1.3=) 650% damage on a CD of 39, or (600x1.3=) 750% (but it's a guaranteed crit so it can't hit any higher) on a CD of 14.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 114
1/3/2016 12:43:01   
UltimateDoomKnight
Member

Yes, I meant overall. I mentioned that TK has powerful defensive and offensive abilities so at that point I was talking about that it was overall powerful.
Post #: 115
1/3/2016 12:59:17   
Faerdin
Rune Knight


 @Sakurai: You are doing a really good job of making me regret being a warrior.

Riftwalker is awesome, but its bursty, glass cannon-y nature doesn't do it for me, and Ascendant is sounding REALLY good right now. xD
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 116
1/3/2016 14:31:02   
LigerBeard
Member

Question: Which is better between the Entropy armor and the Kathool Adept armor?
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 117
1/3/2016 14:50:10   
Faerdin
Rune Knight


 Kathool Adept and enTropy are Tier 3 classes. They are both very good.

But if you want specifics on which one is better than what, I would imagine that enTropy has the superior long term damage (In single target fights) where Kathool Adept is better in the short term. Kathool Adept excels at fighting multiple opponents (Has two of the most powerful multi attacks in the game), but enTropy was designed more with fighting single opponents (Does not have very notable multi attacks). Kathool Adept's defenses rely more on Blinds and healing where enTropy's are more oriented around its nigh irresistible Stun and other debuffs (And its own healing, of course). And some of Kathool Adept's skills are VERY mana intensive while enTropy's skills are comparatively tame, even cheap.

They're both kind of hybrid-y in that they are both capable of healing and are well rounded in terms of offensive and defensive play, but from personal experience, I think they lean a bit differently from each other. Kathool Adept is more offensive and enTropy is more defensive. But their differing methods of achieving their tenacity may look more appealing in different circumstances (enTropy looks more attractive against Doctor When, Kathool Adept looks more attractive against Razen).

But I digress. Given that it's good at bursty damage against multiple enemies, Kathool Adept is definitively the better "farming class" of the two. But enTropy feels better equipped for long term fights -- especially in fights where Blinds are not a necessary component of your strategy.

_____________________________
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 118
1/3/2016 16:18:57   
LigerBeard
Member

@Faerdin: Thanks for the info!

Anywho, I decided to get both, since they are both Tier 3 and good for different things. And, quite frankly, I don't regret it one bit! They both have good animations, and Kathool Adept does some big damage(I was surprised when i saw how much). Not only that, but the enTropy armor is aesthetically pleasing and very good ad drawn-out battles.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 119
1/3/2016 19:02:56   
Zippleclopper
Member
 

 How is the Frost Moglin Armor? Is it worth farming for and is it any good? What is best way to use it on various situations such as normal farming and boss fights?
Post #: 120
1/3/2016 19:32:17   
Faerdin
Rune Knight


 Frost Moglin Armor used to be kind of crazy -- it was one of the best defensive classes out there since it had an abnormally long lasting shield skill and the ability to infinitely Blind on top of that. But Ash eventually took notice of how ridiculous it was and brought it down to the level of other Tier 2 classes. It's still a really nice class and has some quirky skills to make up for what it lost, but if you already have access to Tier 3 classes like DragonLord, you may not always feel the need to use it.

It is also one of few classes with two multi skills -- Yule Tide and Missile Toe -- which can be alternated to always have an attack that hits everything against multiple opponents.

@LigerBeard: The first time you use Kathool is an enlightening experience. You'll never DragonFable the same way again.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 121
1/3/2016 19:59:18   
TheFarReach
Member

You might even say it, changes your view on things......give in to the madness.....
Anyways, I...forgot what I was going to say. Nevermind, just remembered. I do hope that Archivist arrives soon. I wonder what moments they're going to use as the skills, and also if the class is going to have all the skills, but most of them locked, or if they're going to make the skills the weeks of the quests.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 122
1/4/2016 7:41:52   
hidan_orochimaru
Member

I actually bought Kathool Adept first and tested its powers,but I really wasn't ready for the ridiculously huge mana costs,so I quickly sold it back and bought Ancient Exosuit,which actually suits my play style (even though I don't use it much).
DF AQW  Post #: 123
1/4/2016 8:17:02   
The Jop
Member

Yeah, that has always been an issue but especially with the recent (more or less) mana rebalancing which gave everyone a lot less mana. You need to invest some points in wisdom if you want to use the class regularly.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 124
1/4/2016 16:01:55   
Sakurai the Cursed
Member

@Liger - Indeed, enTropy is still one of my absolute favorite classes in terms of skill animations even after all this time.

@Faerdin - Yeah, but Asc pays a big price for that power, as it can't come near RW's or Cry's farming speeds, which comprises the majority of gameplay.

< Message edited by Sakurai the Cursed -- 1/4/2016 16:02:15 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 125
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