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=AQW= Constructive Criticism of AQW Analysis: Quests, Activity Diversity, End-Game Items

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3/23/2017 12:36:04   
  Zyrain
The Arcane


 Alina is really enjoying the critique on AQWorlds and has asked that we separate the original thread into specific focus topics. Use this as an opportunity to offer honest and constructive feedback to help make the game you love even better. This thread is for critique on Quests, Activity Diversity, End-Game Items.

Thread Rules
1. The =AE= Comprehensive Forum Rules and =AQW= General Discussion Forum Rules apply.
2. Remember this is a critique thread. Any posts which are just suggesting changes without offering any feedback on the game's current status will be deleted and redirected to the AQWorlds Suggestions forum.
3. Constructive criticism is a requirement, not an option. Any trolling, flaming or rude posts will not be tolerated and consequences will happen, accordingly.

quote:

Constructive Criticism

  • What is it?
    Constructive criticism is being able to process and offer your own thoughts and opinions in order to give courteous and friendly feedback. This is done by explaining what you like and dislike, while at the same time providing feedback that is useful. This is what separates constructive feedback from ranting/complaining and flaming.

  • Does it help? How?
    Yes! Constructive criticism helps because not only are you giving feedback about what you don't like about a quest/event, but you're also giving feedback about what you DID like in the quest. Feedback could include on such topics as statistics, more dialogue, more explanatory cutscenes, more fights - everything that quests or events would normally include. This gives the game staff a better idea on future improvements.

  • Example of Constructive Criticism:
    "I didn't partularly like this war because it felt too empty. To have made it better, I think the staff could have had a 50% cutscene to unlock rather than just a shop to progress the storyline. As it was, I personally was a little dissapointed that this war felt more rushed than previous wars, however I do understand that the staff had a lot on their plate when making this release.
    That said, I greatly enjoyed the boss fight, the animations and art fit perfectly with the song that was playing in the background. So while not one of the best wars AQW have done, I still enjoyed it. Thank you, AQW staff!"

  • Example of Unconstructive Criticism:
    "I didn't like this war at all. What were the staff thinking? The items in the shop were ugly, overpriced and were bugged!! No cutscene? That was never done before and it is not how it should be done ever. Seriously, doesn't the staff ever listen to us?! The boss fight was too hard and took forever to beat :( And there was no sound. I don't think the staff even care anymore. Best war ever /sarcasm I hate this game D:<!"

    • Also see:
  • =AQW= Constructive Criticism of AQW Analysis: Game Mechanics
  • =AQW= Constructive Criticism of AQW Analysis: Story

    Thanks to Ikaros for the original thread idea and Christophisis for the divided threads idea.

    < Message edited by Shadowhunt -- 3/23/2017 12:36:04 >
    • AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 1
    12/28/2016 5:33:21   
    TsumetheWolf
    Member

    		My main concern about end-game or 'difficult-to-get items' are the ones that are impossible without the help of others: Hardcore Paragon Pet, Snowball Amberarms, and the Helm of Awe (and some parts of the Armour, as the cape doesn't seem as bad- it's only one fight and 100%) to name a few. Players can end up feeling rushed into trying to farm as fast as possible, so that they aren't left behind and/or find fewer players to farm with. This can either be caused by players gaining the items and leaving (reducing viable farming groups/rooms), or players giving up on it.

    Apart from the risk of feeling burnt out; being unable to find help/complete such quests can't be good for the morale. If there was an alternative quest (for future items) that was just as difficult (in terms of time and effort, not unsoloable mobs), yet farmable alone- alongside an equivalent quest that required a party- then hopefully that would still allow players to complete them later down the line.

    For other quests, I have sometimes found the large amount of reagents to be a strain on my inventory, especially if they are not AC-tagged. Archfiend Doomlord was the worst for this. I worry that if another questchain was released like that in the future, i'd have no space at all to be able to complete it. On the other hand, making certain temporary items such as Makai Defeated actual items felt like a good decision- one major issue I had with Kiss the Void was having to defeat 50 Makai every time I was disconnected or lost my connection in general.

    Finally, i'd love to one day see another quest similar in design to the ones used to create the Heroblade. They were time-consuming (3 days of total farming IIRC), yes, but they didn't feel overly tedious to me. I miss the simplicity they also offered- some quests nowadays are rather easy to get lost with if you don't know where to start or go.

    < Message edited by TsumetheWolf -- 12/28/2016 5:35:40 >
    Post #: 2
    12/28/2016 11:19:46   
    Doxus the OverLord
    Member

    		I think all endgame items are worth a character badge.
    So, why not having a badge for all of them?

    Other thing that I think its worth the endgame items is what was made with BoA...
    Think about a enhancement exclusive for BLoD/ALoD owners as an example, let's talk about a thing that triggers on-hit like powerful die but with undeads involved and this being capable of adding in any item by just having unlocked the BLoD/ALoD. Don't you feel worth the sacrifice? I'm not saying that BLoD/ALoD isn't worth its farming, I'm just saying that adding this kind of stuff will make some things more attractive to people who actually don't likes farming for endgame items.

    And think about SDKA and NSoD... Why NSoD would just give 1% more boost to damage against humans than SDKA when NSoD's farming is insane? I'm not saying that SDKA is too easy, I'm just saying that we have an abyss when we're compairing SDKA's difficult and NSoD's difficult. And I should mention that SDKA currently have a character badge while NSoD don't.

    About AFDL... all that RNG working against you and not character badge?!
    If you start compairing endgame farming between each one of the items you'll see that this badge things needs to be relooked/renewed.
    It seems like easier things rewards more than harder ones.

    The in-game prizes still show its differences and the rewards are nice to the difficult. I'm just only against that thing about NSoD/SDKA.
    Maybe some people will think: "man it's different slots..."
    So, I know this, and say me, do they stack by being the same racial boost? NO!
    Post #: 3
    12/28/2016 19:27:30   
    LoliFebri
    Member

    		Sometimes I feel like losing the "adventure" in AQW. It's like "we" go to an adventure but heavily rely on the wiki for drops and items. I know it's more efficient and time saving if we rely on the wiki but it feels like some sort of defeat for me. Something like limiting the release of information after the first 3-5 days of the event/update could be helpful in promoting the "adventure" vibes of the game. This could also encourage players to tackle and brainstorm some ideas that may help with their "quests".
    spoiler:

    I think having a hyperlink for the wiki in the canned-chat would be helpful in the disabled-chat servers.


    Note:
    spoiler:

    This is my 2nd paragraph on my earlier post on =AQW= Constructive Criticism of AQW Analysis: Game Mechanics.


    < Message edited by LoliFebri -- 12/28/2016 19:28:12 >
    Post #: 4
    12/29/2016 4:47:10   
    Wizardlife
    Member

    		I had an idea regarding the Librarium. I'm pretty much going to say what I did in the original thread, although probably in more detail this time, and maybe a couple of additional suggestions.

    Right now, it's not really there for any reason other than to, well, be there. But it has the potential to do a lot more. In AdventureQuest, and I believe DragonFable as of a while ago, there is a Library and there are actual interactive books you can read. I for one think this is a great idea, and as someone who loves reading, I would be incredibly excited if such a feature got added to AQW. It has the potential to add more story detail, lore/history and entertainment value. And heck, we could even have books about our own adventures written after a certain point in the storyline! We could also tie this in to the Loremaster faction (and/or storyline progression), since it too is kind of just there for the sake of being there at the moment.

    Anyway, here are some book suggestions I'd love to see if this ever got added.

    1.) Spellbooks/Magic Books (maybe just have these there for new players or for Loremaster rep)
    2.) Books on certain races/species, like maybe moglins (see above)
    3.) A book on the Eternal Dragon of Time and other almighty dragons (the Eternal Dragon of Time one, I think, should be unlocked after The Span and the almighty dragon ones could be unlocked after Etherstorm, although it could just be tied into one book)
    4.) A book on Champions/Avatars (maybe unlocked after Doomwood?)
    5.) A book on weaving/weavers (after the Ravenloss story)
    6.) As aforementioned, books about our own adventures, and maybe other great heroes?
    7.) The Book of Lore (an earlier version, maybe, and with story/other odd information? Also, the (old?) cover was great, could it maybe be used as the book cover?)
    8.) An in-game link to the Lorepedia?

    We could also have other odd books just for the sake of comedic purposes, like a Pockey Mogs book after the titular release or after the Akiba storyline (Ash Ketchup, anyone?).

    As for other activities, like fishing, I thought it was cool when DragonFable had other alternate locations for fishing. Maybe one day they could release other fishing docks in the future, with different fish and (maybe) different rewards? Also, I felt that it was easier and less frustrating when you could buy the bait from the shop instead of having to beat up Frogzards to get them, although maybe the staff wanted the bait to be a bit harder to come by. As for the other activities, I feel like they're alright, maybe a bit boring at times, but alright. I might come up with something for them later, although right now I could only come up with feedback for fishing.

    Anyway, I just felt like this might be a fun little idea that could give more motivation to completing storylines and give you a little something to do while discovering more about the world and story and give the building an actual purpose. I would really love to see this get implemented one day. One can dream, right?

    < Message edited by Wizardlife -- 12/29/2016 4:54:25 >
    AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 5
    1/1/2017 13:29:42   
    Guardian Patrick
    Member

    		My only complain about Quests are how you get the item from them.

    When a quest gives an item, you do it because you want the item right? Most of the time.

    It's so stressful to do a very tedious quest and when you turn in, it gives you 2 choices: Yes or No. What happen if you turn in the quest, but before clicking "Yes", your internet disconnects you from the game?? It would be frustrating to restart and there are no buyback for misc items.
    Most of the time, we do the quests because we definitively want the items and not doing it to waste time.

    It would be more appropriated and less stressful to automatically send the rewarded item directly to the players' inventory like merge shops. It means when a player turns in a tedious quest, the reward goes directly in the player's inventory instead of giving him the option of "Yes" or "No". That would save the trouble of worrying and losing required items.

    < Message edited by Guardian Patrick -- 1/1/2017 13:37:48 >
    AQ DF MQ Epic  Post #: 6
    1/1/2017 13:43:07   
    Sebastador
    Member

    		@Guardian Patrick
    There is when ente the mentioned Blacklist & Whitelist, Where You can decide What items to accept and What items to refuse, what items you like to drop when you are farming, and avoid get Dc'ed When you click yes farming items.

    < Message edited by Sebastador -- 1/1/2017 14:18:18 >
    Post #: 7
    1/1/2017 14:05:34   
    Aura Knight
    Banned


    		 One thing I'd appreciate is if when we get drops of things already in bank, accepting them puts that drop also in our bank. If there's a way to do this, it would make things easier. Also, if we already have a certain drop, it should just stop dropping for us. This way, the other things can have a better chance to actually drop. But even if such a thing were to happen, RNG sometimes refuses to be nice to us. And speaking of RNG, I think there should be alternative to that in some releases. What I liked about the shadowflame war was that while there were direct monster drops, there was also a merge shop where you can get things too. Some people might like fighting the same monster for a low drop item, while others would rather gather the materials to merge into a certain item. By having both, you're allowing players to choose how to get things and I'm sure many would appreciate such a change. I'm not sure if all this belongs in this section of the constructive criticism thread as some things I mentioned have to do with game mechanics too, but hopefully it's okay to be here. I'll move it there if I need to.
    AQ DF AQW  Post #: 8
    1/22/2017 21:48:07   
    Christophoses
    AQW Tester
    &
    Lore Adept


    		 RNG is the problem when it comes to farming items from quests. Having a 1% chance to get an item that requires hours of possibly pointless farming makes an item almost not worth getting. Games are supposed to be fun. Nothing is fun about knowing that your precious time was wasted.
    AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 9
    1/22/2017 23:50:09   
    megakyle777
    Member

    		Example of some good quests in my opion:

    Drakath's Armor: The armor requires several hard to get items, but is not too far out of people's league. The design of the quest requires going to multiple places, and there is no RNG.

    BLoD. Aside from the amount of Spirit Orbs you need at one point and the fact it takes a age to farm them untill you get a simpler way to do so, this is also well designed. Having to go to various areas, reliance on RNG is very small and requires killing foes rather then a hard quest with no reward ETC.

    Archpaladin: I don't know about difficulty or rng for this one, but what I personally like about this one is the lore behind quests. It explains why you seek a quest item and what skill you need to learn from it, and it expands upon the history of the Archpaladin.

    Examples of Bad quests:

    Necrotic Sword Of Doom: Basicalluy impossible for non members. Having SDKA as a shortcui and a member onet is nice though.

    Archfiend DOomlord: WAY too much RNG.

    Void Highlord: Again, too much RNG. No real lore behind it either.

    Also, all these items should really have a badge with them.

    < Message edited by megakyle777 -- 1/22/2017 23:51:21 >
    DF  Post #: 10
    1/22/2017 23:56:30   
    Aura Knight
    Banned


    		 I wouldn't say NSoD is impossible for non members but it is too much of a hassle, at least the void aura portion. However, I can't be too upset because I at least have a chance to get it, even if it can take years. I am quite slow when it comes to farming endgame things. In fact, I'm surprised I even got the few endgame items I do have.
    AQ DF AQW  Post #: 11
    1/23/2017 0:16:48   
    orc orc orc
    Member

    		@megakyle777
    I second that.

    I love BLoD because it awards the player a sense of progression and is based on their effort. Its RNG is passive and does not affect the bulk of the quest chain.

    I also like Drakath's armor because it actually feels like an endgame item. Two of its requirements, 100 Treasure Chests and 3.7 million gold, can be earned as you progress through the storyline. While it does require 3 Uni 13s, BLoD and BoA, 3 Uni 13s are fairly reasonable as they do drop from Larvae often (and you can get them while farming Nulgath reagents), BoA is a glorified rare drop from an easy boss and the BLoD is a rewarding endgame item itself with a massive boost. In addition, you get back buffed versions of BLoD and BoA and a new way to farm Uni 13s. Almost all its requirements can be accumulated passively, while still maintaining to be an endgame-level item, which is a good thing imo.

    I like Archpaladin for the same reason as yours. Yes, it's not an endgame item, but it is something that endgame items can base themselves off. I really like the lore behind every skill.

    Although I have been very negative on NSoD's non-member method lately, I have to say I actually like the SDKA method. There's very little RNG involved and requires you to beat challenging bosses for a good amount of times; not too much, but enough to make it something that requires effort. It gives a sense of progression and does reward hard work. It's just the non-member quest that has crossed the line in terms of requirements.

    Void Highlord and AFDL have pretty much been stated to death. They're RNG fests and are the opposites of what a good, rewarding and reasonable endgame item should be.



    < Message edited by orc orc orc -- 1/23/2017 0:20:36 >
    Post #: 12
    1/23/2017 1:06:41   
    Christophoses
    AQW Tester
    &
    Lore Adept


    		 @megakyle777

    I completely agree! BLoD, Drakath's Armor and ArchPaladin were all very well constructed farming processes. I'll be honest that I was miffed with Drakath's Armor at first since I really wanted it and didn't have BLoD at the time, but after farming the axe and I can look back and see that it wasn't that bad. The quest for Drakath's Armor didn't have any lore attached to it but that doesn't really matter.

    In my opinion, the NSoD is a lost cause. This is an item that I really wanted, due to the fact that I have it in DF, and I was really disappointed at the way the process was designed.

    I also wasn't impressed with the Tachyon Blades, but I don't feel like taking about that.

    Nulgath items seem to be the chief complaint from most players. The farming processes for every one of those items are not enjoyable in any way. They eat up precious space in your inventory, they make you travel to multiple locations, and require you to spend a lot of time for a mere chance at getting the required items. They're also clearly meant to be a cash grab in order for players to buy certain pets and inventory and bank slots.

    Something that I don't think we give enough credit to is how Dage's quests are designed. They're realistic for everyone and involve little to no RNG.
    AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 13
    1/23/2017 1:15:09   
    Psych
    Member

    		I personally think NSoD is fine. Just takes a lot of dedication.
    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 14
    1/23/2017 2:38:25   
    priest_hidan
    Member

    		PLZ DO NOT CHANGE ANY ENDGAME ITEM QUESTS!!! Especially NSOD! It's perfect the way it is! Although it needs a ton of boost... like it should literally be the best weapon in the game in my opinion because of the farming it requires... I think it should also have close to 30% more damage against all monsters and 60% more against humans. May be implementation of tier 3 doomknight class and doom enhancements would be great!

    The quest designers are doing a perfect job. I looked at the quests for VHL and its PERFECT! Please do not change things because of the complains as the complains are integral part of the farming! its beautiful! Alas I am not interested in the class due to the art and the type of skills otherwise I would have gone for it.

    But to summarize it... You guys have really figured out how to design end game items! Now you need to build up on it like SDmK ---> NSoD--->??????!!!!!!!!!

    Good job and good luck!
    AQW Epic  Post #: 15
    1/23/2017 2:55:56   
    fxmybrute13
    Member

    		NSoD (non-mem) was terrible. The option to farm it without SDKA or membership should not have existed in the first place.

    Cheating discussion removed. ~Shadowhunt

    < Message edited by Shadowhunt -- 1/23/2017 11:06:55 >
    DF AQW  Post #: 16
    1/23/2017 2:56:04   
    Aura Knight
    Banned


    		 Though I do dislike the method of farming void auras as a non member, as long as the quest reward is guaranteed I can't completely hate it. But I don't know if it is guaranteed. So far I got void auras each time I turned the quest in, but what if there is a chance to get nothing? At this time I think I only have 100 or so void auras and haven't continued. I'll get there eventually but it is very annoying.

    While members and SDKA owners have an easier time, anyone else will probably struggle. And for what? A weapon that will likely end up being banked? With how challenging it is to get, this sword should be superior to any other weapon. But that would only hurt balance of power.

    I have doubts some of these endgame quests are thoroughly tested. We, the players, constantly voice disapproval and even provide possible adjustments that are usually reasonable but rarely any change happens. Eventually people will be fed up with the situations and probably quit playing. As okay as AQW might be, some things in game are just not worth the effort.

    < Message edited by Aura Knight -- 1/23/2017 2:57:22 >
    AQ DF AQW  Post #: 17
    1/23/2017 3:04:54   
    megakyle777
    Member

    		I will note that on the topic of Void Highlord, asuka and tendou have said the original plan listened to people's feedback more, but had to be abandonded after it got leaked and people farmed in advance, so what we have now had to be constructed in a very short time. So blame leakers and pre farmers or that one.
    DF  Post #: 18
    1/23/2017 3:08:47   
    LouisCyphere
    Member

    		Every end-game items would just outperform each other at this rate.

    Items with bonuses like NSoD and AFDL set (Even the Set of Awe is phased out right now because of this) would be phase out as the game goes on. Putting higher bonuses above +25% would just break the game especially with the server rewrite and boost stacking.

    But for classes like VHL and probably future classes as well. The quests for "end-game" or "hardcore" classes shouldn't involve RNG. There should be a sense of progression and be treated as a form of investment.

    And I don't get why the devs have to associate with "hardcore" or "end-game" with RNG. Out of all the MMOs I've played, AQW has to be the only one that associates RNG with difficulty.
    RNG is purely luck. There's no skill needed.
    Heck, even the recent RoN isn't quite to hard. You just have to deal with RNG.
    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 19
    1/23/2017 3:09:55   
    Aura Knight
    Banned


    		 Abandoned because people farmed in advance? What a strange reason to abandon something. So what if a few others got a head start? I wouldn't have cared. Why must the few ruin things for the majority?
    AQ DF AQW  Post #: 20
    1/23/2017 3:13:25   
    goldslayer1
    Member

    quote:

    but had to be abandonded after it got leaked and people farmed in advance,

    That has to be a joke of an excuse.
    People know the birthdays. Everyone knows the nature of Nulgath items every time his Birthday rolls around. So it makes sense that they'd farm Nulgath regeants before it rolls around without knowing what the items are.
    I've been expecting the BDay release since November, the only reason I didn't farm much beforehand was because i was simply playing other games.
    But I certainly knew to expect new Nulgath farming items for his BDay without knowing what the items were.

    < Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 1/23/2017 3:14:44 >
    AQW Epic  Post #: 21
    1/23/2017 3:13:43   
    LouisCyphere
    Member

    		@Aura Knight
    Agreed. Even if it got leaked. There's still stack caps for items.
    I'm also quite annoyed that VHL got turned into a single target version.

    As for RNG, it should only be used for quests that are easily completed like the older Nation quests. But for longer quests, RNG shouldn't be used or used rarely and not at the turning in the quest.
    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 22
    1/23/2017 3:25:51   
    Asuka
    AQW Designer of All Things


    		 Abandoned because people bugged their inventories so have it over the stack limit and then have the gull to message me "im 300 over the stack limit, do I need more?"

    Its not like we said "oh hey, they're prepping LETS GET EM." no, it was more of "people are actually abusing a bug (that will be fixed) to get an advantage and get a extremely good class early.

    We didnt want another VoT situation on our hands

    < Message edited by Asuka -- 1/23/2017 3:26:15 >
    DF AQW Epic  Post #: 23
    1/23/2017 3:27:46   
    LouisCyphere
    Member

    		Will the Server Rewrite fixed those bugs?

    If, at some point in the future, VHL will get "overshadowed" by other future classes, will it get buffed?
    Similar to how Shaman and Paladin got buffed.

    Also, why not send a letter to close the AQW subreddit? Seems like most leaks came from there.

    < Message edited by LouisCyphere -- 1/23/2017 3:31:56 >
    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 24
    1/23/2017 3:30:15   
    Aura Knight
    Banned


    		 So the mistakes of a few hurt the rest of us? That seems quite unfair. Why should the rest of us be punished indirectly?
    AQ DF AQW  Post #: 25
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