Ninjaty
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A little disclaimer, before we continue the dance. I am well aware that this thread is about "some" and not "all" rares. The reasons my arguments are so broad here, is simply because of the vagueness. Since I do not know if "some" simple means those with rarity tags other than "Rare Rarity" or not, I assume that it can simply mean both, hence why I am so defensive, given that the staff has already declared "Rare Rarity" to be an assurance that the item will not return.
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This example is inapplicable to the discussion at hand. End-game items require a lot of time and effort to farm but very few of them ever go rare, so you have every opportunity to obtain them and take as long as you want to do so. Furthermore, items would never go from end-game to 0 gold, or rather gold at all. They wouldn't even be available for ACs.
And this is what you fail to get: They are the exact same as rares, just for a different kind of player. The end game items appeal to a certain kind of player, just like rares do, and if they just became available for 0 gold, they would lose their value to those players, just like a rare returning at all.
They are the exact same kind of item, they each appeal to a different group and depending on the circumstances, are equally inaccessible to other groups. Some people would want to have the end game items, but due to work or other circumstances, will never in their lifetime have the time needed to obtain them. If the end game items became available through a 0 gold option, they would lose all their reason for existing, and stop appealing to the specific individuals that actually want long-term farming challenges. Just as how, if a rare returned, it would stop appealing to the people that specifically collect the rare, and who have already attached a lot of emotion to them.
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I'm sure that telling players who missed out on an item that they will never be able to obtain said item is a much better solution to keeping the community whole. If I had a dollar for every time that a war was started in Yulgar over rare items I would be rich. Bringing back certain rares would benefit a significantly larger portion of the community than it would "harm".
Absolutely, it would, but with that mentality, no individual player group should ever have any content specifically for them. No more end-game farming items, no more PvP content, etc.. That would be the equality way of doing things; to take an equal amount away from every group, and just assign it to the "everyone can have this easily" pool. But that would hurt the community too, so you are fine with rare collectors suffering for you to earn things, but would likely never make the same thing happen to your group.
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You don't seem to acknowledge that I have said multiple times that ONLY SPECIFIC items would return. Rare collectors would still have stuff to "value".
As for "respecting" rare collectors, I can't find it in myself to value a portion of the community that finds joy in others not being able to obtain specific items. That's egotistical and takes away from the fun of the game.
As long as no items that, through their rarity tag or word-of-staff have been stated to be perma rare, everything is alright. But if you move into the territory of things that have specifically been confirmed as perma rare, that is when it stops being a friendly request and turns into a downright war declaration.
Oh, so while we respect you enough to just want what the staff has given us, and would never in our worst nightmare dream of taking anything the staff has given you away, you are perfectly willing to take our slice of the cake away, just so you can have that little bit more? THAT is what sounds greedy to me. I just want to be able to live in peace with the items I have been so generously gifted, without their value being taken away. I'm not asking for other groups to have the value of their items taken away, just so I can have them.
Threads like this, which propose to take something that has already been assigned to one player group, make it useless to that group, and then give it to the others, THAT takes the fun away too, but not in a way that hurts you specifically, and thus it's apparently fine. I'm guessing the game is only being ruined when it affects your group or you specifically, but when it affects another group you don't care about or care to understand, everything is for the best.
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I honestly don't know why you keep bringing this up. End-game items have nothing to do with rares. Difficulty and accessibility are two completely different discussions.
No, they aren't, unless you claim that everyone in the world can play the game 24/7 without any consequences. An item that takes you a month to farm for, can take someone else the rest of their life to farm for, or they may never even be able to obtain it at all, regardless of how much they try, because they simply don't have as fortunate circumstances as you.
When you view it through the eyes of such people, that item may as well be locked behind a wall that cannot be broken down. Sounds familiar? In the eyes of someone who is not as fortunate as yourself, an end-game item they want, may as well be something that they just weren't around to obtain, like a rare, because they will never get their hands on them.
Unless all items in the game could be obtained within seconds of creating your character, things will never be within reach of everyone. There will always be someone who misses out, no matter what, rare or not.
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Valuing an item's rarity over its quality is an insult to the devs that design items.
I don't do that, but I simply cannot appreciate it's quality UNTIL it is rare. Once it is, I can assure you, I appreciate it for all of it's features.
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No, I'm saying that the mentality of "Ihave something you can't get" doesen't overule those who just want to have the items they want and are willing to obtain them through ligitimate means.
And again, we all miss out on stuff and we always will. That doesn't mean the item should be changed from it's current state, just so someone else can obtain it, who it would otherwise be inaccessible to. If the item had to change on that premise alone, then any items that requires any amount of effort to obtain, would similarly need to be made fully accessible to everyone (meaning it couldn't require any effort at all; aka. 0 gold).
An end-game item can be just as inaccessible to someone without time, as a rare is to someone who wasn't there at the right time. Therefore, there will always be people who will miss out on both, no matter what, and therefore, according to your argument, these should be treated equally in that regard, so that all people can enjoy them equally.
An end-game farming item without any farming at all, is what a rare is without it's rarity. It's something that betrays it's reason for existing in the first place, and no longer appeals to the specific target audience the staff had given the item to.
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That doesn't mean people should never have the chance of obtaining the items they want.
Nor does it mean they should. Just as if I don't do the farming for an end-game item, I don't deserve to have it, I don't deserve a rare item either, if I wasn't around to getting it. Getting the item "legitimately" is to get it through it's intended way of being obtained, whether that includes having hundreds of hours to spend, or having to be in the right place at the right time.
Since an end-game farming item is intended to take farming to obtain, that is it's legitimate way of being obtained. So placing it in a shop for just 0 gold, undermindes that entire obtaining method, just as being able to obtain a rare at all after it has left.
Until such a time where everyone in real life can deserve to have something, just by virtue of wanting it, there is no reason to apply that logic to the game either. Whether an item is locked behind a wall of farming that the individual can never in their lifetime climb over, or whether it required being present at a given point in time, the point remains the same. We can't all have what we want.
Even I have rares I would give my left hand to obtain, both in real life and in this game. But unlike you, I care enough for the original owners of it, that I would never want it at the expense of their happiness.
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I love items that have canonical significance, yet I can't obtain some of them due to artificial rarity. As such, your interest becomes the detriment to my own interest and those of many other players. There's a problem here. In your opinion, how should we solve it?
And this is where we are in the completely same boat. Your interest in canonical items, if you because of that want a perma rare to be re-released, is detrimental to the interests of the many rare collectors with said item. You are proposing that their happiness doesn't matter, as long as you get what you want.
There is no perfect way to fix it, and that is also my point. Like I have said, there are rares I would love to obtain as well, but simply can't. I would never be able to live with myself, if I had to take that item away from someone else, make it worthless to them, just so I could have it. Once something has been given to a group, I think it is morally corrupt to even so much as entertain the thought of taking it away again.
Why can we not just be happy with what we have each been given? Why must someone always try to take something away from others, just so that someone can have a little bit more themselves? Why must someone try to increase their own happiness, without caring for others?
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We're talking about a pixelated item that has an infinite supply if certain code is written. There is no legitimate rarity to these items. We're not talking about finite resources like platinum or diamonds. Rare items are only created to create barriers. We're talking about artificial rarity.
Vector graphics do not contain pixels, sorry. And that has nothing to do with anything. Diamonds themselves are in way shortage either, but have been made to appear as such, so that is artificial rarity as well, yet they are still perceived by the masses to be desirable.
It doesn't matter if it's a virtual item or not. All that matters is whether or not two or more people can look at the screen, and see the same item. As long as items hold value in-game, they can hold value to the gamer. Humans can attach feelings to anything they can comprehend, it doesn't matter whether it's virtual or physical, inanimate or alive. All that matters is that the human can comprehend it, and that they are capable of emotions at any capacity.
My love for rares is greater than my love for some of the people I have known in my life. Whether you take away my pet or my rares, the end result could well be the same. I love and care for both.
And besides, the whole "it's only virtual, it's only artificial" argument works in both ways as well. If that is truly how you feel about these things, then you have even less of an argument for your side, as the items shouldn't mean much to you anyway. So why are you so insistent on gaining something you can like, if you have to take it away from someone who could instead love it?
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Having a specific item that nobody else can obtain and wanting it to stay that way does, unfortunately, sound greedy. It promotes exclusivity instead of inclusivity.
Your arguments are greedy too, friend, just from a different perspective. As long as even a single player stands to lose something, just so you can have it, it will never be a selfless act in any capacity. A selfless person would rather that the current owner continues to enjoy the item, than ever consider taking it for their own enjoyment.
Am I greedy in wanting to keep my items? Yes, I am, it just depends on the perspective. Greed is a selfish attribute, and it is selfish to want anything in life, including to continue living. We are all greedy, we are all selfish.
But I would rather be greedy in trying to protect something I have been given, than being greedy in trying to take something from someone else, just to obtain it for myself, as that is also a detrimental concept to the community; not respecting people enough to let them retain their items as they are.
I haven't played the game in a few days now, simply because threads like this one tends to make me depressed. They seem to pop up so often, and quite frankly, they're taking their toll on me. I look at my rares in sadness, thinking I can start losing them all, the same way I would look at family members during a war or plague. I have tried to distance myself from the game, because I genuinely can't even look at my character or it's inventory right now.
This carries into my real life, and actually affects my job, simply because when I collect things, I put my heart and soul into that collection. This is not just a thread to me, this is a threat to me. It's something that keeps me up at night, it's something that makes me worried what I will find the next day.
You have said that my collecting of rares is detrimental to your happiness. Well, your opposition to the staff keeping their word on the rarity tag, is detrimental to my health, happiness and everything in-between.
That is why I over and over, state that I wish people would just be happy with what I have.
< Message edited by Ninjaty -- 4/28/2017 2:39:10 >
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