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=DF= Archivist Discussion Thread

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4/23/2018 6:24:58   
Wolf Rider

Hiya DragonFablers!

You wanted more various threads of discussion about Classes and we listened! This week and every week following, we will be introducing a thread for every class in DragonFable.

This thread: All things Archivist.
Now for the rules of this thread:

  • All =AE= Comprehensive Forum Rules apply.
  • The "All Classes" thread will remain pinned to the top of the forum until all the current class threads are released.
  • There will be a Class Directory stickied to the top of the forum once a few class threads are active for quick locating.
  • On suggestions: The DragonFable staff offer specialized suggestion threads from time to time and you may post your suggestions when those events occur.
  • Please keep discussions to the Archivist armor.
  • Most important: Have fun!
  • AQ DF MQ  Post #: 1
    4/23/2018 6:48:58   
    Sun Wukong

    Hi Forums, I've been waiting for almost two years for this. I like the unique skills and type of armor Archivist has. Honestly I am not satisfied of what is it right now. It feels like 60% done. Will there be any skills added? Or even just a straight up multi skill that is suitable in quests. This class will face a hard long time doing farming or story line quests which has multi monster battles. I can say for now that it is only good for instant fight bosses like Siofra, Dr. Volt's challenge, and Inn at the Edge of Time challenges.

    Also, the demo of the class was weird because it was still incomplete and in progress during that time. Also, why was there no label that this would be a not a full-skilled class in the launching?

    I'm not demanding for an addition/completion of skills right now but just some future plans for it even if it takes years.

    < Message edited by Sun Wukong -- 4/23/2018 8:24:43 >
    Post #: 2
    4/23/2018 8:07:04   

    Archivist is definitely one of my favorite classes. Using history itself to effect a battle is a theme that I really get behind. Unfortunately, it is one of the most cumbersome classes to use. Every skill having a cool down that carries between battles is unique, and certainly creates a big change from any other class, but it results in the class falling short in anything other than a boss fight.

    Many suggestions have been listed about how the class could be fixed, and there are probably about to be a lot more now that this thread is up. Personally, I feel like the absolute biggest flaw the class has at the moment is that it isn't finished. All of the skills the class has already blend fairly well together, and when used tactically, can be reliable for clearing out mook enemies throughout longer quests. If the last 5 skill slots were filled in with some basic class abilities (shield, power attack, small healing, etc) without carry over cool downs, Archivist should turn out as a viable class for daily questing or farming that especially excels when dealing with bosses.

    Over time I have grown to really love the cool down functions of this class. It makes the game feel more dynamic and unpredictable. If the class is changed in the future, I hope this gimmick doesn't get scrapped entirely. The class should get a buff, but I would hate to see the current play style be completely gutted to compensate.
    Post #: 3
    4/23/2018 8:22:14   
    Sun Wukong

    ^ You're right, it is really incomplete at the moment and not yet fully worth as a calendar class. I agree of your idea of adding non carry on cool down basic skills like shield, final blow, and instant multi strike, etc.

    Also, I understand that DF and staff is in a hard situation right now and we should honor them for keeping the game alive and running so I consider lengthy time for future skill additions.

    < Message edited by Sun Wukong -- 4/23/2018 8:26:59 >
    Post #: 4
    4/23/2018 10:26:40   

    Meh. IMO,pretty weak compared to all other calendar classes,especially the SWOT.
    DF  Post #: 5
    4/23/2018 12:29:22   

    Archivist is great for boss fights but terrible elsewhere. It has some incredible skills, specifically Ultimate Orb Creation and Celestia's Sorrow, but the fact that all of its cooldowns carry between battles makes it nigh useless in quests that have more than one battle (ie most of them).
    Though that's not to say I don't like the class. Its playstyle is very unique, and that makes it quite fun to use. It may not be as good as SWoT, but it's still a very useful class when used in Inn challenges or similar boss fights.
    DF  Post #: 6
    4/24/2018 0:10:24   
    Sakurai the Cursed

    For what it's worth, while many may not agree with the decision, the staff have said that the class is complete minus one final to-be-added skill. Not every class needs to have all slots filled; look at ChronoZ or ShadowHunter, the latter of which is 50% empty slots and the former having pointless kick/skip turn moves as filler for the spots that weren't used by actual skills. But I do agree that the class is pretty lacking as it is and that final skill better be incredibly useful if it's all we're going to get.
    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 7
    4/24/2018 2:30:56   

    To be fair, I do believe those are both combo classes so the move pool is actually a lot bigger than the skill bar shows. There's definitely enough content to fill the skills. A Tomix saga part 3 skill would be super cool, like pandora/tomix synch or aspar/tomix doing something or even the ending to part 3 could be something.
    Post #: 8
    4/24/2018 2:36:15   
    Baron Dante

    I'm personally a fan of Archivist. It seems many people dismiss is for reasons like it having a 99 turn cooldown on what is pretty much the strongest heal in the game, which normally I'd agree with. (People also seem to do this with SWoT too, of course)
    But both of these classes, Archivist moreso, is largely managing these cooldowns. It doesn't actually have 99 turns of cooldown on the heal, since you decrease it greatly with Kathool and the Ultimate Orb, both of which should be used pretty much whenever it's possible.
    As far as dealing with regular quests go, Archivist does struggle there, but you can sort of get around this using Trinkets (Which, for the record, are also affected by Ultimate Orb, leading to some potential combos. Unfortunately, the only multi trinket is a Seasonal DC one.

    I do think the class has some real flaws though. The stun skill is too unreliable. It works on chance (what even IS the chance?) for a 1 turn stun. Now, that'd be fine, but since you can't stack that, it loses a lot of value when combined with Ultimate Orb, and you'll probably want to do other things like set-up the next Ultimate Orb instead of taking time to use the stun in between them. Maybe it would work better if it had a chance to stun for 2 or 3 turns, but it only works once per enemy per usage? This would make the skill less of a waste on Ultimate Orb combos.
    The DoT is barely ever useful. It just deals too little damage to really be worth it. It'd be cool if the DoT could stack, so the earlier you start attacking the enemy with it active, the beefier DoT you can stack on them.

    As far as the final skill goes, Archivist would really appreciate a traditional shield. It's not exactly the most interesting option, and I guess not very likely either, if it's going to be based on the Caitiff Saga. I guess we could have Dove's belly-shield for that? Failing that, having a skill that gives you one turn of massive Boost would be pretty fun. On most classes, a single turn of Boost isn't that big of a deal, but combining it with Ultimate Orb can lead to some good results, which is why I think it should be exactly only 1 turn: To play off on the style of the class itself. You can already kinda see this with something like the Mirror Eye trinket. It's 5 turns, yeah, but thanks to Ultimate Orb, you can very easily have a 25% Boost on all your attacks. Alternatively, if you have it, DragonFable Friends gives you 100% Boost for 1 turn. Combining that with Ultimate Orb gives you a full 5-6 turns of double damage.
    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 9
    4/24/2018 8:26:47   

    I agree with Dante, and yes, the class is kinda lacking in some “normal aspects”, I guess. I could get the class (because I want to) but I doubt that there’s a point in purchasing a 2 year old calendar (yes, it’s still up for purchase, but no signed one.)

    Edit: I mean, the calendar is what you actually pay for, these things come along with it.

    < Message edited by BluuHorseOfficial -- 4/24/2018 8:27:31 >
    DF  Post #: 10
    4/25/2018 23:23:55   
    Sun Wukong

    ^ I don't think it is the calendar that you're paying for when ya buy it this time, what will ya do for the 2016 calendar for now? There's nothing but late events. I think that you're paying for the things that come along with it if ya buy it for now. And how will ya like or be satisfied of what ya buy when it is incomplete? I think Archivist needs completion or addition because it is still up for sale and it's an interesting class that many like to have. I'm fine of a long delay of finishing as long as there it is since I understand AE is facing a hard time and I appreciate their compassion to their games.
    Post #: 11
    4/26/2018 1:50:05   

    I'm aware of how AE won't alter calendar classes or reboot it for it's not quite fair for people that didn't buy the calendar or simply didn't have the opportunity to obtain it in the pass (It was explicitly stated in aqw at least), but considering how the actual physical calendar hasn't sold out in heromart they should slightly revise it's gameplay.
    It doesn't have to have it's skillset to be full, but at least made the current effects carries out between battles; much like it's cooldown.
    Still it'll suffer in long quests, but it would supposedly balanced the disadvantages of having its skill not been carried between battles yet its cooldown does.

    < Message edited by Santient -- 4/26/2018 2:04:03 >
    Post #: 12
    4/26/2018 19:04:45   

    I think that's a great idea. Assuming it is even possible. The current focus of Archivist's game play is trying to maintain enough power to deal with a current battle without going overkill, or else you will be disadvantaged in the next. This is the primary problem with the class, as it makes anything other than bosses tedious. If the effects could carry over between battles, that would drastically increase it's potential.

    Dante mentions how Kathool and Ultimate Orb can both be used to rapidly reduce cool downs, which is absolutely true. But the majority of mook battles in this game won't last long enough to take full advantage of those skills, causing them to go on early cool down, and then you have to wait for your next chance for a rapid reduction. Again, this is no problem at all during a boss fight, but against lesser foes those skills only give a temporary boost.

    If the effects carried between battles, then they would be far more sufficient and the class cool downs would be easier to deal with throughout longer quests. Perhaps some rebalancing would be necessary if this change was possible though...

    < Message edited by Bamzalot -- 4/26/2018 19:05:03 >
    Post #: 13
    4/27/2018 13:55:13   
    AQW Lore-titician

    I do agree with all of you, the Cooldown carry-overs seems like an unfair gimmicks for one of the most expensive assets of the game, and since a large majority of releases are quests with tons of enemies before the boss, the class can rarely be used confortably. I Get how they like to give us challenges and funny shenanigans, but this really failed to appeal. If the class did have a shield, small heal or, good graces, a BLIND skill, it would solve a lot of issues. Maybe even having one half of your skillset the carry-over cooldown OP skills, and one half the "average, no cooldown" skills so between using the big ones, you have at least something to hold your grounds.

    And yea, the Stun is a huge flaw. Not only it have a small chance on your entire attack (could be better if each HIT had a chance to trigger it so you would have 5 rolls of a dice each turn) but taking it into account with the enemy's immobility and it's 1-turn stun, it makes this skill useless at most, being more reliable to use the ultimate orb and roll with it while you pick the other boosts like Xan and Demento to hopefuly nuke the enemy before he forces you into Celestia's Sorrow since, once Ultimate Orb loses the effect, you are a glass cannon waiting for something to topple you and break in a million pieces.

    On a whole, this class is the weakest of the calendar classes, which is a little shame since while all the other classes are grand and dignified in idea and design, and a person with an oversized book and a beret being with the same power level as the Avatar of Time would be hilarious and adorable, but alas, it's just someone with a big book that can flip some pages and be a sitting duck the next fight.
    DF AQW  Post #: 14
    5/2/2018 10:33:22   

    Kathool's cool down reduction affects very little on the 98 cd of Celestia's Sorrow which logging out then in is a better option than just going on.

    < Message edited by Skyflakes -- 5/2/2018 11:28:19 >
    Post #: 15
    5/2/2018 22:10:18   
    Baron Dante

    ^You can't really log out during a quest though. And when quests (Or singular bosses, even) drag on for long enough, Kathool DOES add up eventually.
    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 16
    5/2/2018 22:37:40   

    ^Sorry for being unclear. What I mean is after a quest when you used Celestia's Sorrow it's better to re login than to fight mob to replenish its cool down even with the use of Kathool's Madness for it will also take a very long time.
    Post #: 17
    5/7/2018 12:31:08   

    i think just adding some skills specific to killing mooks would make this class sooo much better
    Post #: 18
    7/11/2018 3:22:56   
    De Sade

    Any news on the update for Archivist, yet?
    Post #: 19
    7/11/2018 3:41:30   

    The additional skill we were promised hasn't been forgotten but Verlyrus has a ton of other things to work on as well.
    DF  Post #: 20
    7/12/2018 0:30:03   
    De Sade

    I take it there won't be any slight changes to this armor,
    Not to it's effects nor cooldowns?
    Post #: 21
    7/12/2018 11:56:29   
    Baron Dante

    ^I doubt that's off the table, but it certainly won't happen until the final skill comes. At that point, the skill might affect the balance of the class to lead to adjustments. Or not.
    I feel it's in a pretty good place overall, but of course, an unfinished class is hard to judge. It has some flaws, and at least one of those could be answered by the final skill. (Mostly the issues it has is being lacking in defensive options, really. Adding a blind would probably solve this. (Actually, that sounds like a nice synergy. If you could stack a blind with the multi to get the blind on all the enemies at once, it'd function as a makeshift shield in terms of protecting you from more than one foe)
    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 22
    7/12/2018 13:51:18   
    De Sade

    Fair point.
    I'm quite riddled with the class intend, more recent classes under Tomix & Verly always have a purpose, (eg. Soulweaver a powerhouse; Ranger a titan slayer)
    Archivist lacks the sustainability in prolonged battle with high damage bosses and certainly not made to 1-kill mobs nor mid-monsters to farm.
    To say Archivist merit's as a calendar class is questionable is such an understatement, but in order to suitably use it it needs quite an effort to set the combo.
    HeII, It's even longer to be able to apply all the effects we need to survive a high hitting boss (eg. Yllmar) compared to Chrono-Z & Shadowhunter.

    Please don't misunderstood me,
    I owe this class a lot and I got to conquer the Serenity Saga and many other solely with Archivist without finding any difficulty.
    Post #: 23
    7/12/2018 18:01:45   
    Baron Dante

    Archivist really shines in boss battles, basically. You're not likely to deal with bosses quickly anyways, so having to do the set-up work isn't as much of an issue.
    The real issue is that it's essentially really bad for everything else, and regular content is a lot more than just boss battles. Sure, it can handle mobs just fine, but it's slow.

    Now, there's a few pieces of good new here: Like many classes its weaknesses can be somewhat patched with trinkets. Slap a high-damage trinket like the Defender Cannon (If you have it) or RuneStone on it, and most single mobs will die in a single round. Multi battles will still be an issue though, and the only multi trinket is not exactly stellar.

    But going back to dealing with what is shines at, I don't think survivability is a huge issue, though it requires using specific kinds of gimmicks, specifically showing a healing weapon. Due to Attack Button having many hits every turn, and its turnskipping mechanics, it actually gets a really good use out of those, greatly prolonging its life. If damage is not an issue, it can also run an on-Attack Button weapon special like the NSoD. It will cut your Ultimate Orb time, but you have a decent chance of shooting out massive damage, sort of like Ranger.

    Actually thinking about it, I'd say Archivist is sort of similar to Ranger right now. Both feature turn-skipping gimmicks to boost their effectiveness, and they both basically scream pure offense (Since Ranger flat-out punishes you for going for defensive options, whereas Archivist just doesn't ave good defensive options). They're also really good at taking out challenge bosses, I'd say. (Yllmar is probably a bad example of this though, as what most classes need here is probably a stun-lock via guests. Archivist might be able to survive indefinitely given enough Water resistance, and eventually manage with a well-timed Ultimate Orb to weapon special combo or something, but that sounds really annoying.
    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 24
    7/16/2018 18:58:20   

    I just bought the calendar, is there any stat guide or combo guide that I could use on the class?
    I looked it up and all I saw was skill description and how to obtain.
    Post #: 25
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