RE: =AQW= Class Discussion Thread


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3/10/2019 21:20:48

you stop
Member

Pretty sure SSoT is still available but I havent really checked.

Anyway, I can confirm DoomKnight to be better than Glacial Berserker but not good enough to beat Legion DoomKnight.

I also agree with it having issues with hard hitting bosses since you do need to be low HP to actually hit hard. The issue I see is it's hard to maintain enough HP to loop 5 consistently, seeing as the class's own HP sustain is really not that great. Bosses will kill you if they crit 5x in a row assuming you're sitting on 500 HP even with all your sustain and stuff. HP vamp is a bad idea too. It prevents you from properly managing your HP, despite a consistent haste/crit buff from 5, which overall reduces DPS

I do in fact have it on my tier list.
Disclaimer:
1. I do not own every class so I can really just put what I own here
2. I used Unarmed with Awe Enh, no other boosts
3. Was mostly killing Ultra Akriloth, leading this tier list to be slightly distorted to killing High HP bosses. I do not have a reliable tier list for anything lower than Ultra Akriloth
4. Feel free to question this list as I do not think this is the most reliable/agreeable list but is a decent guideline for anyone who wants to have an idea on how good their classes are.

Tier 1. Calendars - SSoT and Immortal Chrono. No arguments here

Tier 2. VHL/LC - VHL short fights, LC long fights (like 400k long)

Tier 3. LDmK/Timeless DarkCaster - LDmK has established itself to be good. Timeless DarkCaster is actually better than LDmK imo and is better than VHL but this is only assuming we don't use weapon boosts. Timeless DC uses DoTs for majority of the damage dealt so I'm going to put it here for now until I find a better argument.

Tier 4. Glacial Berserker, Evo PumpkinLord, StoneCrusher, DoomKnight. Yes I know I claimed DoomKnight to be better than GB but the difference is not too significantly high. In all stages, DmK is definitely better but from my measurements, these 4 hit about 2-2.5k DPS which is about a 30s difference from 2k to 2.5k when killing a 600k hp boss like Aranx/Ultra Akriloth. Smaller difference when killing lower HP bosses

Honorable mentions:
Chrono Assassin - I don't know how to manage this class's mana properly but I heard it's good enough to be on GB's level
UOK - Don't have it but by the claims of other members here, it's highly likely to be great

< Message edited by you stop -- 3/11/2019 0:00:40 >

AQW	Post #: 326

3/10/2019 23:12:19

Veya
Member

quote:

SSoT is rare now too.

It's not, the Curiosity shop has been shifted around, now it is its own map(/curio) and SSoT/IC are located one screen to the left, probably to give space to other stuff like the many things that only appear in the Curiosity shop if you own a certain item.

AQW	Post #: 327

3/12/2019 18:04:59

Hardcastle McCormick
Member

@edme macheath
I've tested OmniKnight recently enough and found that by itself it's slightly inferior to Glacial Berserker and Chrono Assassin for damage - mostly due to having only a decent crit rate - putting it a few notches below the new and improved DoomKnight.
UOK's potential with buffs from a Frostval Barbarian or StoneCrusher is a lot higher than that of GB and CA though, since those classes both hit max crit chance and haste by themselves. It's particularly good with a FB since it doesn't really need more haste.

I'm curious how DK compares to Harbinger when both are being boosted by a SC.

< Message edited by Hardcastle McCormick -- 3/12/2019 18:08:18 >

AQW	Post #: 328

3/12/2019 20:09:10

Edme MacHeath
Member

@above: no it's not.

I'm not trying to argue that dMK and UOK are just in a completely higher tier than GB, but that they place higher in more situations than GB would.

I actually think they're significantly faster that it still heavily would put them in significantly faster results. Even saving like 10 seconds is probably like skipping the respawn timer of the boss to respawn and probably doing both that and turning in a quest
you can do can probably even accept an item if you're quick.

I think GB is better for things past 150k simply because UOK tends to die before then.
I tried Onyx Lava Dragon with 30% and spiral carve.

UOK: :35, :33, :34, :31, :30

New LDK: :47, :45, :50, :42, :47

Old LDK: :35, :39, :46, :42, :45

GB: 50,37,55, 52, 53.

DMK: :50, :37, :49, :40, :46

CA: :46, :48, :48, :54, :49

SC: 1:07 (How is this class in the same tier as dmk?)

quote:

Tier 4. Glacial Berserker, Evo PumpkinLord, StoneCrusher, DoomKnight. Yes I know I claimed DoomKnight to be better than GB but the difference is not too significantly high. In all stages, DmK is definitely better but from my measurements, these 4 hit about 2-2.5k DPS which is about a 30s difference from 2k to 2.5k when killing a 600k hp boss like Aranx/Ultra Akriloth. Smaller difference when killing lower HP bosses

No create a tier 5 with Necromancer, Chaos Slayer, DSG and move stonecrusher into tier 5. Anything that gets well into over a minute can no longer be in the same tier as classes that are doing like 20-30 seconds faster.

CA is tier 4. UOK is tier 3. UOK is even better than I realized. It's about equal to LDK in dps and probably is better than it by a noticeable margin. I didn't fight a boss with high enough HP for LDK to get it's dps going, but that's also the point where uok starts to die.
imo both UOK and new LDK are equal with old LDK being worse than UOK.

I never actually got void strike to crit more than twice in my runs, even though it has happened before in previous runs. Assuming it crit every time, you can expect this to go sub 30.
but even with 0 crit void strikes, I was still getting 50 seconds. I got pretty unlucky with DMK.

CA is... really consistent. It's a lot more consistent than I realized. It seems to do so much better now that it's dodge skill is fixed. I want to fight stronger bosses with it.
It performed faster than GB but it's not anywhere near what LDK is doing. It technically did perform equal with new LDK but the HP is too low for new to really push ahead enough.

< Message edited by Edme MacHeath -- 3/12/2019 21:41:25 >

AQ	Post #: 329

3/12/2019 21:50:21

you stop
Member

quote:

SC: 1:07 (How is this class in the same tier as dmk?)

The damage scales with HP of the boss. It's really not as good with facing lower HP bosses but I just put it in Tier 4 since it actually hits hard enough after some time. Also I put in the disclaimer that the Tier List is biased towards high HP bosses. I do agree that SC is below if we're talking about things like Onyx Lava Dragon

I'll take the Tier 5 idea in perhaps

quote:

I'm curious how DK compares to Harbinger when both are being boosted by a SC.

DmK is simply better. Its nukes hit higher without SC and can hit the nukes without the boost from 5. Harb has to consistently play with its HP to hit high and even then, DmK's nukes still hit higher.

< Message edited by you stop -- 3/12/2019 22:00:23 >

AQW	Post #: 330

3/13/2019 0:53:07

Edme MacHeath
Member

Is it even possible to manage HP with either when you have a SC healing you over time consistently, especially with increased chances of magnitude with more than one person turning like HoTs into 300-500+ values. Not to mention everyone taking 50% less damage thanks to SC, ontop of multiple people focusing the boss, making it less likely you get hit?

Harbringer already nerfs enemy hit and haste by like 40% alone, while DoomKnight reduces dodge and crit chance by 50%

I somehow doubt you're gonna be playing with HP with SC around.

Now I suppose one could purposely not have the SC heal and purposely not use debuffs from harbringer or DMK, but then the SC is just unable to heal itself without another group heal which all tend to be more than 2 target heals which defeats the purpose of not healing.
but then so you're still having a boss split it's own attention between more than one target.

It seems like way more work to try to manage HP with Harbringer and DMK.
Even so DMK is amazing with SC, but that's more due to the nuke just being incredibly high without needing to go too low in HP anyways, and harbringer sorta does this too.

But when it comes to SC, you're just looking for the higher nuking/dps potential to pick and out of the 2 it's DMK.
Void Strike is just so much higher.

AQ	Post #: 331

3/13/2019 3:02:49

you stop
Member

quote:

I somehow doubt you're gonna be playing with HP with SC around.

If we're talking strictly about SC + DmK then all it really takes is ask the SC to stop healing you because DmK's heal is actually just enough. For Harb, it's actually better to be healed by SC. Just constantly press 5 as it's on a low cooldown anyway.

If it comes to a point where SC really just needs to heal, then go for it. It's actually a lot easier to do if you're friends with the SC in the party but if it's just on a random room, I doubt this would be easy to pull off. I already had this tested and it's really not that hard to do. SC has a really huge base HP and can tank really comfortably with just that alone.

AQW	Post #: 332

3/13/2019 10:37:39

zanathos
Member

Seeing as how most of it's upper damage derive from DoTs, would a full wizard build work best on Arcane/Timeless DC, or should a Wizard heavy build with maybe a lucky cape or weapon be better?

AQW

Post #: 333

3/13/2019 12:45:11

Hardcastle McCormick
Member

@edme macheath
I said slightly inferior because it consistently kills the queen of hope (200k hp and little danger of dying) slower than GB. But in shorter fights it’s definitely faster, and like I said it has much higher potential.

AQW	Post #: 334

3/13/2019 20:26:12

you stop
Member

@Zanathos Full wiz. I dont see how Luck helps the cause. Also, usually you really just want to go Full of something. Using a mix just gives a worse result than going Full of the proper enhancement for a class.

AQW	Post #: 335

3/16/2019 22:14:40

Hardcastle McCormick
Member

I suppose it's a lot to ask considering the amount of class updates we've gotten recently, but does anyone know if there are plans to do something with Evolved Leprechaun?
They're advertising it now in the DNs, and I pity anyone who decides to drop ACs for it...

I'm not exactly sure HOW strong it should become, but considering it has the likes of Vampire Lord and Glacial Berserker to compete with, it deserves a rather hefty buff.

AQW	Post #: 336

3/16/2019 22:53:38

zanathos
Member

On the topic of classes, we're approaching the 6 month point since the Achievement Class zones were supposed to release, with no sort of info on the development in a small while. Last I heard the classes were done and they are just waiting on the zones, but after this long there is nothing that can be done to the zones to justify this long of a wait, hope they give the 2019 Badges better treatment.

AQW

Post #: 337

3/19/2019 18:27:16

lancebacani
Member

What's the most versatile darkcaster class? Immortal or Infinite?
also if I got the class with AC will I still have a chance to get the T2 quest?

Post #: 338

3/19/2019 18:55:21

Metakirby
Constructive & Helpful!

Out of the 2 classes, Immortal and Infinite, Immortal is certainly the most versatile and also the best, IMO. 2 Good low cooldown + high damage skill, a nuke and a self heal with a stackable buff + good debuffs as well. It doesn't lack much, kind of like Lightcaster and is only held back by the need to be able to apply 3 Soul Crush to the enemy and not kill them with Legion Strike's damage for maximum damage potential, when using it to farm smaller stuff, or missing with Legion Strike and lose a lot of potential damage, just in general. Infinite Dark Caster is more focused around farming smaller enemies and while it does alright single target damage, I wouldn't recommend it as a soloer. Infinite is available for 2k LTs, while Immortal isn't, which is another good reason to buy Immortal instead of Infinite with ACs.

quote:

Tier 2 Dark Caster Class (Coming in May!)
Earlier this year, when we were planning out the return of the Dark Caster classes, our plan was to bring back a buffed version of the original DC class. That plan grew and morphed into a Tier 2 version of the original Dark Caster Class, which Dage was a HUGE fan of.

After talking with a lot of you and the team over the last few days, the team is going to take extra time and design out a full, NEW Tier 2 for the Dark Caster class. This will release around May and will have unique skills, icons, animations, and a farming method (no dailies needed!)

How to get it:

If you have ANY of the Dark Caster classes, you'll be able to join a map and begin the quest to unlock the Tier 2 version
The class quest will have level and farming requirements (like but not exactly the same as T2 Light Caster)

https://www.aq.com/gamedesignnotes/dagesdarkcasterclasses-7317

By any, we can only assume it means Infinite, Immortal and/or Timeless and all versions of the classes will probably be accounted for. Whether it includes the original classes like Dark Caster, (Legion) Evolved Dark Caster and Mystical/Arcane Dark caster is still unclear. At least if someone owns the originals, they can get the new ones for free, so they don't need to spend an extra 2k ACs or LTs.

AQW	Post #: 339

3/20/2019 16:33:02

lancebacani
Member

@Metakirby
Thanks alot!

Post #: 340

3/21/2019 4:31:37

Tyroniter
Member

What are the best enhancements for the 3 Dark Caster classes? If I'm not wrong, Timeless should work best with Full Wiz because of the DoTs, but what about the other 2?

AQW	Post #: 341

3/21/2019 10:56:07

you stop
Member

The one with DoTs, Timeless Dark Caster works well with Wiz. The other two work best with Luck

AQW	Post #: 342

3/21/2019 12:52:36

Veya
Member

About Immortal Dark Caster, I have the following clarification: Immortal deals more damage with Wiz, but at least in my personal tests, it performed better with Luck, simply because Luck gives a marginally higher hit rate(about 1% and a bit according to the stat page), and the class is extremely reliant on its nuke hitting to get its Haste buff.

So Wiz will give you a higher potential to the class, but Luck will make the class more consistent and reliable, both Enhancements work for the class, and it depends on the situation, it definitely works better with Wiz if you have a StoneCrusher buffing your haste so you aren't punished as much for missing your nuke, in fact, it might be best to not use your nuke at all if you have a friendly SC around, since you won't need it for the Haste buff, and it will allow you to stack your 3, which makes the enemy take 40% extra damage once you reach 5 stacks, so if you expect to play solo, go Luck, if you expect to have a group that can make up for its Haste defficiency, go Wiz.

< Message edited by Veya -- 3/21/2019 14:43:32 >

AQW	Post #: 343

3/23/2019 1:16:24

Edme MacHeath
Member

quote:

About Immortal Dark Caster, I have the following clarification: Immortal deals more damage with Wiz, but at least in my personal tests, it performed better with Luck, simply because Luck gives a marginally higher hit rate(about 1% and a bit according to the stat page), and the class is extremely reliant on its nuke hitting to get its Haste buff.

So Wiz will give you a higher potential to the class, but Luck will make the class more consistent and reliable, both Enhancements work for the class, and it depends on the situation, it definitely works better with Wiz if you have a StoneCrusher buffing your haste so you aren't punished as much for missing your nuke, in fact, it might be best to not use your nuke at all if you have a friendly SC around, since you won't need it for the Haste buff, and it will allow you to stack your 3, which makes the enemy take 40% extra damage once you reach 5 stacks, so if you expect to play solo, go Luck, if you expect to have a group that can make up for its Haste defficiency, go Wiz.

The original version did better with wiz. At significantly lower lvls. What exactly changed to make a class that gained hit % and damage to perform better in the new buffs with 1% more hit chance vs going for damage.

AQ	Post #: 344

3/23/2019 4:36:18

Veya
Member

What changed is that now Legion Strike gives a Haste buff, which in itself translates to damage, but here's the catch, like most damaging skills that apply buffs, missing the skill will make you not get the buff, right? your DPS is significantly lower without the Haste buff, so hitting the 5 is vital to the class, and it is such that in my personal tests, I had at least one 5 miss in each run over the course of 10 runs even with full Luck, most often I would get 2-3 misses, and more misses while using full Wiz, which has led to longer times while using full Wiz.

It should also be noted that missing your 2 is also harmful, you need three stacks of your 2 for your 5 to give you a Haste buff(any less than that won't get you the buff but will remove your 2 stacks, so you have to be mindful of when you use your 5, and fat fingering that is just as punishing as a miss), if you miss your 2 twice before getting to three stacks, you won't be able to loop your Haste buff, which naturally also harms your DPS.

Besides that still, it should also be noted that your 5 will give you a hefty DR boost(30%, for a total of 70% DR along with your 4) as long as you have any stacks from your 3, which makes the class very tanky and probably the tankiest class besides VHL and AP(not counting Chrono Assasin/Great Thief because they are a different brand of "tanky"), but this also means that missing your 5 also harms your survivability since you won't have the same DR.

I hope that's sufficient explanation, it basically boils down to hit rate making its most important buff unreliable, and the narrowly increased hit rate with Luck making it slightly more reliable.

< Message edited by Veya -- 3/23/2019 4:42:21 >

AQW	Post #: 345

3/25/2019 12:01:02

you stop
Member

Anyone got a better idea on how to 1 shot kitsune other than using Cryomancer and praying you crit

AQW	Post #: 346

4/5/2019 23:54:35

vyba0
Member

hey guys waht is the strongest class for aqw

Post #: 347

4/6/2019 5:30:22

you stop
Member

Void Highlord and ShadowStalker of Time, objectively.

Also, I'd like to know anyone's thoughts on this matter: Tier List by a Tester and his friend.

I don't agree with a bunch of things here and there.

1. While they did state that being in the same Tier are not to be confused with direct substitutes, I don't think it's fair to put the current meta Calendar Classes in the same tier as VHL or Lightcaster for that matter. Calendars and the other S tier classes they listed have extreme differences which are key to my argument being that Calendar Classes should be in their own tier.
2. Eternal Inversionist is A tier in Farming, which is the same tier as Shaman (going by the list), and Shaman being below Lightcaster's tier in farming. Umm, no just no. Even with the conditions they stated, none of the tiers for these 3 are fair. I can defend this argument if someone wishes to challenge it but right now I really don't think these three are placed where they should be.

I could honestly name some more but that would be me nitpicking. I guess they have other criteria other than the pure plain power of the classes. But generally, the list gives a really good idea of where classes should be and how strong they are. Commended for the most part.

Also if any of the two writers end up reading this: rabbit

< Message edited by you stop -- 4/6/2019 8:56:33 >

AQW	Post #: 348

4/6/2019 15:35:47

Darches
Member

I am still SO SAD I missed the Legion Blademaster Assassin (and all the gear). I was on another hiatus since November and missed Frostval Barbarian so was confused when reading "FB" all around this thread. -60% mana cost, +40% crit rate, +80% crit damage :O Those are some crazy strong team buffs!

As for the tier list... R.I.P. verification classes, Thief of Hours, Master Ranger. Also R.I.P. StormKing. Everything changed when the ~~Fire Nation~~ power creep attacked.

AQW

Post #: 349

4/6/2019 21:29:39

you stop
Member

I guess that's why they're recruiting Balance Team members, to bring those classes to good use. Perhaps not metabreaking, but at least no one would have to spend a few hours to farm reps only to find out there were better options at the same given timeframe

AQW	Post #: 350

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