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Need for a larger focus on permanent in-game content.

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9/28/2019 22:22:19   
Vellup
Member

My two cents as someone who has played this game, on and off, for over a decade. Note that if this type of criticism is against some kind of AE policy (I looked at what guidelines are available, and this seems to be allowed?), I apologize and you can remove the post, but know that I say what I have because I have AQ's best interests in mind. No disrespect or ill will is meant:

I will preface by saying that in my opinion, the base game is reasonably fun for what it is, but that it suffers from major issues. Now, I think a lot of the problems AQ faces comes from it being understaffed and possibly underfunded. Over the years, it seems like a lot of staff have either moved on to other AE projects, or just outright quit. Furthermore, certain major programmers and writers who worked for AQ were apparently not even paid full time, if at all. The forum, which has attempted to act as a resource, has utterly failed to keep itself up to date--the only up-to-date resource in existence for builds and equipment in this game is Reddit. So it seems obvious that AQ has always been struggling, or at the very least, has been been allotted minimal resources to operate for the majority of its existence.

That being said, this game suffers from a major issue--it is generally incomplete and full of outdated content. Some of this may stem from the fact that AQ seems to want to change its balance standards every few years. Aspects of the game such as armor leans, item skills, enemy stat spreads, player stat spreads, classes/subraces, etc... have undergone multiple changes over the years at a faster rate than the staff have been able to update the game's content. So most of the items that are considered "post-sweep" aren't even current anymore.

One major factor that severely exacerbates the previous issues is the extreme chronic focus of AQ on temporary content. This (and admittedly, all other AE games) are filled with "limited" or "exclusive" items, many of which are best in slot in their categories, or make available strategies limited strictly to those rare items. We see this a lot in the limited time shop, and in GGBs, for instance. There's a massive focus on releasing content that will be gone within a few months, when the limited staff that is available desperately needs to focus on actually adding to the permanent base game. When so much of the game is not even updated to current standards, it is not viable in the long term to consistently ignore outdated equipment, stat spreads, artwork, and gap filling in favor of the next new event or the newest limited time item. It is an utter waste of resources to employ all of AQ's most skilled artists to design items and monsters that will not even be in the base game a month after they are released. In this area, AQ absolutely needs to stop making so many releases limited time only. If a new item is put into the game, don't take it back out later. This includes seasonal items and even items such as Frostval giftboxes. I say this as someone who owns many unique Frostval items from previous years--I would be quite happy if every rare item I own was released to the base game--so many unique strategies are locked behind these items that could open up new dimensions of gameplay that AQ desperately needs to spice up its otherwise rather simple battle mechanics.

The other factor that contributes to AQ's decline is perhaps the most pervasive, and perhaps one that the staff might be uncomfortable talking about. It is inevitable that some staff may not appreciate me saying this out loud, though know that I say it in good will. I checked the rules for these forums, and MTX discussion doesn't appear to be specifically disallowed, so I will attempt to bring it up--this game focuses far too much on monetization and in-game advertising. it is downright predatory. I say this as someone who has purchased plenty of microtransactional content in the past, and it still rubs me the wrong way that optimal builds and setups in this game are limited to Z-token and GGB equipment. AQ pushes its MTX features very aggressively to the point where it does not care about breaking immersion. It features microtransaction currency in the form of Z-tokens and exclusive item packages. It has lootboxes in the form of GGBs, where players are able to gamble their tokens for rare items. It pushes players to watch ads through mechanics such as Ballyhoo. Furthermore, most of what is purchasable with Z-tokens is not even up-to-date or optimized, so players who buy premium content but don't fully understand game mechanics will inevitably waste a lot of money on useless content. Notably, monetization is probably the biggest reason why limited time items are so pervasive, which is a testament to how much detriment excessive monetization can have at all levels of any game.

I understand that AQ's business model and lack of a subscription may, to some degree, require the use of MTX content to ensure that there is a source of continuous income entering the game. That being said, it is troubling that the majority of effort that seems to go into this game focuses on releasing new MTX equipment rather than actually improving the base game. Being realistic, there is probably no real true possibility in outright removing MTX from this game even if it were economically viable. I play other online games, and this trend is appearing in all games everywhere. Runescape's userbase is currently borderline rioting due to excessive MTX. EA Games received massive amounts of justified opposition to locking core game content behind lootboxes. It is routine nowadays for most games to come with some sort of DLC or MTX element attached to it. This is a problem that extends far beyond just AE. Going back to AQ, if it is to exist at all, lootbox and equipment purchased with real-money should be tangential at best--an extra addition added with great care rather trying to be a core element of gameplay.

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask the staff to tone down this game's monetization as much as they can afford to.

Overall, I would like to see this game survive into the far future. Currently, I look at this game and just see it being milked for what meager profit can be extracted, with little to no consideration of its longevity. This is a game with a lot of potential, but currently, the majority of effort needs to focus on making the game internally consistent, and in releasing updates that will improve the quality of the game for all players, new and old, going forward.

Again, my only intention is for the well-being of AQ as a whole. If this post is objectionable, feel free to delete it--based on what I can tell looking at the available rules, I believe this sort of post should be within the forum guidelines.

< Message edited by Vellup -- 9/28/2019 23:06:48 >
Post #: 1
9/28/2019 23:48:05   
AliceShiki
Helpful!


 Well, I'll split my reply in parts since this is a long post... Let's see...
quote:

Now, I think a lot of the problems AQ faces comes from it being understaffed and possibly underfunded.

You can always apply to work with AQ, as far as I know The Hollow is always looking for new people to join his team.

Yes, everyone is well aware that lots of AQ's staff were moved away when AE started expanding into other games like DF, MQ and AQW. But no more staff has been removed in the last decade, so I can assure you the reason it lacks staff is not because Artix is an evil CEO that wants AQ to die... The game is old, it's hard to find people to work on it.
quote:

certain major programmers and writers who worked for AQ were apparently not even paid full time, if at all.

AE had a big history of heavily overworking their volunteers. Ever since the issue with Ash being fired from DF's team though, they worked on getting all their workers properly hired. Alina already made an official statement that they no longer use volunteers in their company.

Took longer than it should, but this issue was already solved.
quote:

The forum, which has attempted to act as a resource, has utterly failed to keep itself up to date

By all means help solve the problem then. You can ask James Lu to take over one of the guides or you can apply to join the Sages of Lore to help put the pedia up to date. I'd certainly welcome a few helping hands. And I'm sure you'd have the full support of the community.
quote:

the only up-to-date resource in existence for builds and equipment in this game is Reddit.

The forum guides, while outdated, still give you a very solid foundation that will help you beat pretty much all the content in the game because standards have been the same for years now. They're also far more through in giving advice than the reddit guides... >.>

Additionally, the wikia also has a lot of very good information to help the players out, some of it is even referenced by the reddit guide.

Sorry to say it, but you didn't try looking around enough. There are plenty of resources outside of reddit.
quote:

That being said, this game suffers from a major issue--it is generally incomplete and full of outdated content. Some of this may stem from the fact that AQ seems to want to change its balance standards every few years.

While it is true there is a lot of outdated content in the game. Standard changes have been pretty minor in the past 7ish years. Items from 2012 are still as usable nowadays as they were back then, some are still recommended as the top tier items for their category even.

Sure, most items from the first 10 years of the game are basically unusable at top level, but... Well, staff needs to release new content weekly, there is a limit to how much stuff they can update... They still try to update a few items from time to time, it's nice to see stuff like Lightning Rod being usable again, for example.
quote:

Aspects of the game such as armor leans, item skills, enemy stat spreads, player stat spreads, classes/subraces, etc... have undergone multiple changes over the years at a faster rate than the staff have been able to update the game's content. So most of the items that are considered "post-sweep" aren't even current anymore.

Armor Leans haven't been touched since... 2014? Skill standards have been the same since 2016ish I believe. Enemy Stat spreads have been the same since around 2014 as well.

Only classes that have been touched in the past decade were Knight and Assassin, and those 2 are pretty old when the game had considerably different ideas about what classes were meant to do (which was honestly a bad idea, you should be happy they changed their view, not complain about it). Meanwhile, subraces have been updated (only one left is Dracopyre) and are now one of the best items in the game.

And sure, some items aren't post-sweep anymore... Oh God, I'm so sad my weapon gives *1.09 damage instead of *1.08 damage... Or God forbid, +9% instead of *1.08, that's terrible.

... Yeah, standards haven't changed much since 2012ish. Biggest change was the stat cap increase, and that didn't change anything on how items were coded.
quote:

One major factor that severely exacerbates the previous issues is the extreme chronic focus of AQ on temporary content.

I think you are looking at things the wrong way. AQ has far more permanent gear nowadays than it ever had. There are only 6 things that go rare in AQ nowadays.
1) GGBs, every month they add 2 GGB items and keep 1. That's token gear btw, so it's not a big loss.
2) Z-token packages. Sometimes they make packages that are only available for a month or two. More often than not though, they're permanent. And again, $$$ item, not a big loss to have it as temporary.
3) Rare Item hunts... Which almost never happen and cost... Guess what? Tokens! Funny how token items are basically 95% of what goes rare in a year...
4) Frostval giftboxes. One set of items per year going rare seems like a pretty fair compromise to me.
5) Top War contributors exclusive rewards. Those items are purely cosmetic reskins of the permanent gold items that are available at the end of the war. Again, very good compromise to me.
6) Void Takeovers. Pretty much the only thingy that irks me, I think the void needs a complete overhaul and any new void takeover should give permanent items. That said, we don't get that many void takeovers per year either.

Far far faaaaaaaaaaaar more stuff went rare back in the "golden days" of AQ. Staff cares a lot more about permanent content nowadays than they cared before.
quote:

"limited" or "exclusive" items, many of which are best in slot in their categories

Please mention a single challenge boss that can be beaten with premium gear and cannot be beaten without premium gear. Because as far as I know Book of Burns and Kindred are the 2 best items in the game, and both are permanent gold items. The third spot goes to the temporary Dragon Blade which is also an item that requires no $$$ investment. (well, requires Guardianship if that counts) Oh, and Ironthorn is the best shield... Again, permanent gold item.

Sure, Booster Pets are premium, so are Bloodmages and Bloodzerkers, but... Eeeeeeh? You don't need that to beat a single challenge boss, so who cares? You don't need it to get top 25 in wars either btw, so that's also something that they might excel in, but are by no means necessary to be used at.

Wanna go back to the golden age of AQ where Mages reigned supreme and the best spells in the game costed 11k tokens? Please be my guest, I think the game is on a wonderful spot right now.
quote:

or make available strategies limited strictly to those rare items.

I'll list the "strategies" that rely on rare or premium items for you.

"werewolf slayer" build: that requires a rare item from a void takeover. Allows for a very niche build that is completely unnecessary and has basically no support gear whatsoever.
"Undead Slayer" build: Requires Ebony Sepulchure, a token item. Once again, a very niche and unnecessary build, but it's a thing. At least it has more support than werewolf slayer.
Pixel Ether, very unique effect that isn't replicated by permanent items. Though it's kinda unnecessary nowadays when Essence Orb is a thing.
Stack Ice Elemental Vulnerability with 3 different Frostval Giftbox items from the same year in order to deal tons of ice damage. Really wonky build that consumes tons of SP in no time and is 100% unnecessary... But hey, it's a fun idea, I'll give that to it.

And... That's about it. I think there is one more pixel-ether-like item that I forgot the name of, but again... Essence Orb is a thing, so it doesn't matter much.

Or are you going to tell me Poe Mage requires Poelala to work? That's just a pure mage with a good item that is not needed to kill anything. Just bring Wizard Robes, Shadowfeeder Pendant and Love Potion and everything will die in not time even without Poelala... Or well, Kindred, Kindred solves almost problems you could possibly have. (and the ones it doesn't, no premium gear solves either)
quote:

when the limited staff that is available desperately needs to focus on actually adding to the permanent base game

As I have been trying to say in this ridiculously lengthy reply. They do that already, they do a LOT of that already.
quote:

When so much of the game is not even updated to current standards, it is not viable in the long term to consistently ignore outdated equipment, stat spreads, artwork, and gap filling in favor of the next new event or the newest limited time item.

If you look at the majority of the outdated gear, you'll see a bunch of bland stuff with no effects and that would make no difference being updated or not.

Sure, sometimes you see the rare Scale Rot that would be pretty nice to have updated, but the majority of outdated items is just plain bad and uninteresting, why would staff focus on updating those instead of releasing new and actually interesting permanent gold items?

Not to mention they already updated most of the stuff sold in the default battleon shops to have an easy starting point for new players, so that is not an issue either.
quote:

This includes seasonal items and even items such as Frostval giftboxes. I say this as someone who owns many unique Frostval items from previous years--I would be quite happy if every rare item I own was released to the base game--so many unique strategies are locked behind these items that could open up new dimensions of gameplay that AQ desperately needs to spice up its otherwise rather simple battle mechanics.

They're basically the only stuff (aside from void takeovers) that go rare nowadays. Not happening. Let rare collectors have their once per year rare thingy to collect.

All other seasonal stuff is available every year during its appropriate season, so I don't see why it would be an issue.

Also, while the AQ mechanics are pretty simple, there are tons of unique and fun items to use that are permanent and cost gold, so... Again, I don't see an issue at all.
quote:

The other factor that contributes to AQ's decline is perhaps the most pervasive, and perhaps one that the staff might be uncomfortable talking about. It is inevitable that the staff will not appreciate me saying this out loud and I may experience consequences for this, but for the sake of AQ's future, it must be said what is on everyone's mind--this game focuses far too much on monetization and in-game advertising. it is downright predatory. I say this as someone who has purchased plenty of microtransactional content in the past, and it still rubs me the wrong way that optimal builds and setups in this game are limited to Z-token and GGB equipment. AQ pushes its MTX features very aggressively to the point where it does not care about breaking immersion. It features microtransaction currency in the form of Z-tokens and exclusive item packages. It has lootboxes in the form of GGBs, where players are able to gamble their tokens for rare items. It pushes players to watch ads through mechanics such as Ballyhoo. Furthermore, most of what is purchasable with Z-tokens is not even up-to-date or optimized, so players who buy premium content but don't fully understand game mechanics will inevitably waste a lot of money on useless content. Notably, monetization is probably the biggest reason why limited time items are so pervasive, which is a testament to how much detriment excessive monetization can have at all levels of any game.

If you can think of a way to monetize a F2P game with once-per-lifetime membership payment of 20$ that is sustainable for a 17 years old flash game, please go ahead and PM Artix right now, I'm sure he'll be very glad to pay you for your idea.

I think everyone can agree that microtransactions suck, but they're a necessary evil if you want to see AQ keep afloat for years to come.

Also, token prices were halved around 2 years ago, so now you need much less microtransactions to purchase the token gear of the game. That's a pretty darn great improvement staff made in order to make those items more accessible and less predatory. Not to mention the 50% token sales they're doing with far more frequency than I ever saw before, before 2018's Black Friday, the only time I had seen a 50% token sale was in the 10 years anniversary of the game.

Microtransactions may suck, but staff certainly isn't being predatory in how they implement it IMO. It's definitely miles ahead of any gatcha game you can download for your cellphone. (and those are very successful mind you, so there is a good reason people do use microtransactions)
quote:

I understand that AQ's business model and lack of a subscription may, to some degree, require the use of MTX content to ensure that there is a source of continuous income entering the game. That being said, it is troubling that the majority of effort that seems to go into this game focuses on releasing new MTX equipment rather than actually improving the base game.

So you want them to improve the base game? Let's see what staff did to improve the base game recently...

1) Raised the stat cap that has been the same since the game's inception. Incredibly good improvement to get rid of that 4th stat that forced you to go hybrid in your build somehow. And are still working on rebalancing things to make the stats more even in their contribution and to remove the perceived necessity of DEX from builds.
2) Updated almost all subraces that have been useless for more than a decade to now being some of the best items of the game. Also added an entire new subrace with 2 variants at that.
3) Started working on the class revamp of Paladin and Necromancer that have been on a halt for 5+ years now.
4) Updated things in the background to make it possible to implement trading and crafting some day in the future.
5) Hired a new writer to fill in the gap left by all the previous writers leaving due to a variety of reasons... And must I say, what a goddamn good writer Cray is. And he is also hearing the wishes of the community and bringing us content related to stuff we want to see. (Nightmare Queen and Destroyer Saga revisited, for example)
6) Made the Sages of Lore initiative to help update the Pedia without needing to give Archknights right to users they don't trust enough to get post editing rights and a position of authority. (look at me! I'm updating the pedia! I'm a good girl! Please praise me!)
7) Filled almost all equipment gaps in the game with easily available permanent gold options. I believe the only one lacking is a FD Darkness Armor on current standards that is not a subrace.
8) Made the Warzone to have a nice official way of tracking the leaderboards of wars, something we have been asking for years.
9) Made exclusive rewards to the top warmongers that don't take much effort on the staff's part. Again, another thing we have been asking for years.
10) Halved the damned token prices. This needs to be mentioned again, it's a huge thing.
11) Staff started actively interacting with players over discord, hearing our concerns directly and (rarely) giving us sneak peeks of a few things to come or solving our doubts on things we need help on. (you have noooooooooooo idea how much I already bugged In Media Res for help over PMs in Discord, I'm really happy with how nice she is to me even though I keep bothering her near release date when she is overswamped! >.<)
12) Revamped the tutorial to make it actually useful for new players.
13) Making actual challenge bosses that make us have to think and plan strategies to beat. You have no idea how much discussion the War-Torn Dragon raised in discord, it was an absolute blast to see a boss making people work their heads on different strategies and methods to defeat the boss. And while he is the most remarkable recent example, stuff like Carnel is also pretty hard if you go a bit away from the meta strategies and can be very fun to fight against too.

Seriously, what more do you want? I'm sure I can list more if I try, but I think I went on long enough. They have been working really hard in making the core game great. The premium gear they release is definitely not stopping them from doing that.
quote:

Being realistic, there is probably no real true possibility in outright removing MTX from this game even if it were economically viable. I play other online games, and this trend is appearing in all games everywhere. Runescape's userbase is currently borderline rioting due to excessive MTX. EA Games received massive amounts of justified opposition to locking core game content behind lootboxes. It is routine nowadays for most games to come with some sort of DLC or MTX element attached to it. This is a problem that extends far beyond just AE. Going back to AQ, if it is to exist at all, lootbox and equipment purchased with real-money should be tangential at best--an extra addition added with great care rather trying to be a core element of gameplay.

Well, I just gave you a 13 point list that they have been putting great care in the core game.

The Microtransactions are exactly what you want them to be, a tangential extra addition to the game that you don't really need to ever look at. Believe me, you don't need Poelalas to beat any boss in AQ, much less a Custom Face.
quote:

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask the staff to tone down this game's monetization as much as they can afford to.

I'll use bold letters to highlight the point, this one really needs to be mentioned lots of times.

TOKEN PRICES WERE HALVED!!!

And we get sales. And we get tons of gold items that are much better than token items.

Rather, did you look at the rewards from the last Tibbles Donation Drive? None of those items can come close to competing with some Permanent Gold Items we have nowadays, and some people spent over 200k Tokens to get those.

They certainly show off a lot of premium gear on our face and try to get our money, that's how the game is kept afloat... But I can assure you, they do their very best to not make the game a P2W fest that you need to shove hundreds of dollar to have a chance of competing... They already did tone down the monetization as much as they could afford.
quote:

Overall, I would like to see this game survive into the far future. Currently, I look at this game and just see it being milked for what meager profit can be extracted, with little to no consideration of its longevity. This is a game with a lot of potential, but currently, the majority of effort needs to focus on making the game internally consistent, and in releasing updates that will improve the quality of the game for all players, new and old, going forward.

You're trying to say AQ is not looking at the long term while also talking about a game that is 17 years old... I can't see why you think that.


Pheeeeeeeeeeew, this was a very very long reply. Wish it didn't take this long to type it out.

In conclusion... I understand your concerns, but you have been gone for far too long and didn't see how the game has developed in the past decade properly. Almost all of your concerns have been long addressed by the staff, you're making a tempest in a cup of water.

Honestly, the game is in a much better spot nowadays than it was back when it was at its peak. It's simply... Better, 2008 AQ is 1000x worse than 2019 AQ.
AQ  Post #: 2
9/29/2019 9:26:25   
  Lorekeeper
And Pun-isher

 

 I appreciate your concerns, certainly in such trying times for the industry built on the form of art and science that we love. Less so the suggestion that criticism alone may be expunged. But as was highlighted already, the majority of it is founded on misconceptions at best and outright inaccurate assessments at worst, and your request has been fulfilled several times over in the timespan between the point closest to where your latest apparent observation and the current point in time. Those I will not touch further on.

What I would do is invite you to take your time in further observing the current status of the game. We are currently in the process of wrapping up the summer event, the Burning Solstice saga, which has a permanent spot in the game (Sage Uldor) along with the trilogy that foreshadowed it (Umazen Uprising/Civil War, also given its own place on the travel map). I can assure you, this is the standard, and only sets the stage for future permanent story content that I have a commitment to achieving greater quality with.
Post #: 3
9/29/2019 10:41:58   
Lineolata
Member
 
quote:

My two cents as someone who has played this game, on and off, for over a decade. Note that if this type of criticism is against some kind of AE policy (I looked at what guidelines are available, and this seems to be allowed?), I apologize and you can remove the post, but know that I say what I have because I have AQ's best interests in mind. No disrespect or ill will is meant:

I will preface by saying that in my opinion, the base game is reasonably fun for what it is, but that it suffers from major issues. Now, I think a lot of the problems AQ faces comes from it being understaffed and possibly underfunded. Over the years, it seems like a lot of staff have either moved on to other AE projects, or just outright quit. Furthermore, certain major programmers and writers who worked for AQ were apparently not even paid full time, if at all. The forum, which has attempted to act as a resource, has utterly failed to keep itself up to date--the only up-to-date resource in existence for builds and equipment in this game is Reddit. So it seems obvious that AQ has always been struggling, or at the very least, has been been allotted minimal resources to operate for the majority of its existence.

That being said, this game suffers from a major issue--it is generally incomplete and full of outdated content. Some of this may stem from the fact that AQ seems to want to change its balance standards every few years. Aspects of the game such as armor leans, item skills, enemy stat spreads, player stat spreads, classes/subraces, etc... have undergone multiple changes over the years at a faster rate than the staff have been able to update the game's content. So most of the items that are considered "post-sweep" aren't even current anymore.

One major factor that severely exacerbates the previous issues is the extreme chronic focus of AQ on temporary content. This (and admittedly, all other AE games) are filled with "limited" or "exclusive" items, many of which are best in slot in their categories, or make available strategies limited strictly to those rare items. We see this a lot in the limited time shop, and in GGBs, for instance. There's a massive focus on releasing content that will be gone within a few months, when the limited staff that is available desperately needs to focus on actually adding to the permanent base game. When so much of the game is not even updated to current standards, it is not viable in the long term to consistently ignore outdated equipment, stat spreads, artwork, and gap filling in favor of the next new event or the newest limited time item. It is an utter waste of resources to employ all of AQ's most skilled artists to design items and monsters that will not even be in the base game a month after they are released. In this area, AQ absolutely needs to stop making so many releases limited time only. If a new item is put into the game, don't take it back out later. This includes seasonal items and even items such as Frostval giftboxes. I say this as someone who owns many unique Frostval items from previous years--I would be quite happy if every rare item I own was released to the base game--so many unique strategies are locked behind these items that could open up new dimensions of gameplay that AQ desperately needs to spice up its otherwise rather simple battle mechanics.

The other factor that contributes to AQ's decline is perhaps the most pervasive, and perhaps one that the staff might be uncomfortable talking about. It is inevitable that some staff may not appreciate me saying this out loud, though know that I say it in good will. I checked the rules for these forums, and MTX discussion doesn't appear to be specifically disallowed, so I will attempt to bring it up--this game focuses far too much on monetization and in-game advertising. it is downright predatory. I say this as someone who has purchased plenty of microtransactional content in the past, and it still rubs me the wrong way that optimal builds and setups in this game are limited to Z-token and GGB equipment. AQ pushes its MTX features very aggressively to the point where it does not care about breaking immersion. It features microtransaction currency in the form of Z-tokens and exclusive item packages. It has lootboxes in the form of GGBs, where players are able to gamble their tokens for rare items. It pushes players to watch ads through mechanics such as Ballyhoo. Furthermore, most of what is purchasable with Z-tokens is not even up-to-date or optimized, so players who buy premium content but don't fully understand game mechanics will inevitably waste a lot of money on useless content. Notably, monetization is probably the biggest reason why limited time items are so pervasive, which is a testament to how much detriment excessive monetization can have at all levels of any game.

I understand that AQ's business model and lack of a subscription may, to some degree, require the use of MTX content to ensure that there is a source of continuous income entering the game. That being said, it is troubling that the majority of effort that seems to go into this game focuses on releasing new MTX equipment rather than actually improving the base game. Being realistic, there is probably no real true possibility in outright removing MTX from this game even if it were economically viable. I play other online games, and this trend is appearing in all games everywhere. Runescape's userbase is currently borderline rioting due to excessive MTX. EA Games received massive amounts of justified opposition to locking core game content behind lootboxes. It is routine nowadays for most games to come with some sort of DLC or MTX element attached to it. This is a problem that extends far beyond just AE. Going back to AQ, if it is to exist at all, lootbox and equipment purchased with real-money should be tangential at best--an extra addition added with great care rather trying to be a core element of gameplay.

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask the staff to tone down this game's monetization as much as they can afford to.

Overall, I would like to see this game survive into the far future. Currently, I look at this game and just see it being milked for what meager profit can be extracted, with little to no consideration of its longevity. This is a game with a lot of potential, but currently, the majority of effort needs to focus on making the game internally consistent, and in releasing updates that will improve the quality of the game for all players, new and old, going forward.

Again, my only intention is for the well-being of AQ as a whole. If this post is objectionable, feel free to delete it--based on what I can tell looking at the available rules, I believe this sort of post should be within the forum guidelines.

nah. sorry i disagree.
AQ DF  Post #: 4
9/29/2019 10:55:55   
J9408
Member

"Rare" items exist because they are used as a incentive to keep people playing every week. Aq won't survive if people just play every now and then because the items they want will always be there.

If Rare items were released as permanent items, I am pretty sure they would be Z-tokens only. Staff have to make money somehow.

It is also not like the staff does not care about permanent items.

Darkovia and Neko Classes are proof that the staff cares about the game longevity. The updates to Darkovia are not even finish yet either. Last I read, Dracopyre should be the next update.

The "Burning Solstice" Saga have also brought in fantastic equipment as well.

You just have to be patient.

< Message edited by J9408 -- 9/29/2019 11:15:07 >
Post #: 5
9/30/2019 0:15:09   
roobee
Member
 
quote:

you can apply to join the Sages of Lore to help put the pedia up to date

If you do this be prepared to wait a long time for your application to be responded too though. I haven't seen the member count for the Sages of Lore grow for some time.
Post #: 6
9/30/2019 9:21:42   
s_venom
Member

I understand part of your worries, but overall the game really doesn't "forces" you to spent money on it (aside of guardianship, but even that isn't a must).
Overall, almost every token item you can get had gold counter part that does the job just as well. True that some are behind GGB, but it's still manageable and they system in place for trading GGB is significantly, and I mean very significantly, better then what you would find in most other games.
AQ DF  Post #: 7
9/30/2019 13:29:29   
AliceShiki
Helpful!


 @roobee You too!? Heroes just poked me in discord with the same complaint! >.<

I honestly have no clue what is happening, I thought nobody else was applying until you both said this...

Maybe a staff member can clarify why nobody else is being approved to join the sages... Right now I'm at a loss.

(for the record, my application was approved in like... 2 days or something.)
AQ  Post #: 8
9/30/2019 14:25:43   
lolerster
Member
 

 Tbf, the microtransaction in this game is by far the most tame of all modern games with mtx (with the exception if games that has cosmetics-only mtx, which would absolutely not fly in this game.

The majority of the mtx are not useful. The main ones that give significant power boosts are:
-Dunamis/Therndas for warriors/rangers
-Buffalot for Warriors/Rangers/Hybrids
-Arcane Amplification for mages/hybrids

And also, Arctic Tornado, Creation Burst and Cysero's Telephone Booth are nice to haves.

For mages, if we limit ourselves to Arcane Amp, the cost is $20 for guardian + $25 for package. A total of $45. While a bit expensive for a game like this, in my opinion this is very tame for games with MTX in it (as unfortunate as that may be). The 7500 tokens you get should be sufficient to get you both Bloodzerker Blades and 1 Poelala (both if you are lucky), especially if you save up for a sale. Whatever is missing just needs to be farmed (mainly Bloodmage/Bloodzerker). When I was going hard on farming in this game, I was making 50 tokens and capping on gold in under 25 minutes everyday (this can be done without Arcane Amp and probably only 1 or even 0 Poelalas). Save up, wait for a sale and go ham on the GGB.

Warriors are more expensive to play, especially if you run both Therndas and Dunamis, costing $145 if you want to run both and $95 if you run one. I understand that this may be too much to spend on a flash game, even if it is one of the best flash games. However, this will likely get you everything you need out of the GGB as well.

If you aren't planning to spend too much, I would only recommend mage, especially since mage is arguably the most effective build even with premium items.

Werepyre hybrids are more reasonable, costing $70 if you want to run both Buffalot and Arcane Amp.

However, the most important thing to note is that none of this is necessary. In fact, in many fights high difficulty fights, the beastmaster builds are more effective than the using these premium items.

Let's take for example the War-Torn Dragon. A FD beastmaster build is much more effective than using a high offense build. Arcane Amp/Buffalot are almost completely irrelevant. The same can be said for bosses like Ultimon (though FO can get around this with Bell Shell. Btw, I'm pretty sure Bell Shell is a Pokemon reference. In the games, Shell Bell heals the holder forn1/8th of the direct damage they deal to their opponent).

Take Moderator Gaintlet Challenge as another example. ALX is much easier to deal with as FD build. You can basically stall DUM infinitely with Fujin no Kiyosa/Healing Branch/Essence Orb/Magic Defense item. Not to mention a FD build can easily slot in Kindred into their build. Carandor is the only one that's easier for FO builds (due to being able to go first with 220 or more luck + Whispering Raiment/Ambush Potion). However, FD builds will find that surviving is not a issue at all vs. Carandor, as you basically have infinite time at DUM to heal.

On the other hand, you have stuff like Wicked King and Starslayer that are easier with the more expensive builds. Wicked King because he can be bursted down with stuff like WKZ/Blood Mage and Starslayer because of his huge advantage over low luck builds.

Alternatively, you can run a high luck FD build like me.

Also a reminder that the ininite hp/mp/sp loop is available to everyone.

Ranted a but too much there.

As you can see, even with fairly low monetary investments into the game, strong builds are definitely possible. In fact the expensive builds aren't necessarily even better.

Of course, there are builds that lose a huge amount of effectiveness without significant monetary investments. However, the important thing is that equally good alternatives exist. If you choose to not play those builds, that's your choice. However, they do exist.

< Message edited by lolerster -- 9/30/2019 14:37:43 >
AQ  Post #: 9
10/1/2019 7:03:03   
I Overlord I
Member

I don't care for MTX either, but you have to realize that this is not a subscription-based game. Guardianship is a one-off. Servers require upkeep, especially now that there's no player limit, and I imagine that Z-Tokens pay for the bulk of that.

Now, if this were AQW, I'd wholeheartedly agree. MTX on top of a recurring subscription is kind of insidious. Especially as most MMOs, including the one unaffiliated with AE named in the OP, are more than capable of offsetting costs through subscriptions alone. The MTX sales are generally just the cherry on top.

_____________________________

“Nothing is so common as the wish to be remarkable.”
AQ  Post #: 10
10/1/2019 8:54:46   
lolerster
Member
 

 Also I would like to add the reason for AQ's decline is pretty simple. It's a flash game. We are at the point where browsers and eve Adobe themself have or will stop support for flash. Most people has moved beyond flash games now and RPGs in general are not as popular as they used to be. It's not really an AQ issue.
AQ  Post #: 11
10/1/2019 9:02:42   
Heroes of the Scape
Member

I have a character the is an Adventurer that hasn't purchased a single premium item whether it be Z-Token or Package. He's not even a Guardian yet. I am taking him all the way to level 135 before I get Guardianship for him. I have a couple of Z-Token Weapons waiting in my Vault for when he gets to top level but those were purchased using only Tokens I got from abusing the Housing system with the two characters that I never buy premium items specifically for. There are 2 Frostval Rares that he will get because he is a FD Bow Ranger and one of them currently lacks a permanent equivalent.

I am also about to undertake creating a character that only purchases items from the default shops. Only the Battleon shops and Adder's Forge are permitted purchase locations. Anything requiring a quest to unlock is off limits. That includes Class and Subrace shops. I want to prove a point that I've had for a long time that you can play this game with close to no money put into the game. I will get that character Guardianship, (since $20 is the max that it would cost to play the game without going p2w and since I have other Guardians on the account it only costs me $10), in order for him/her to be able to maximize equipment efficiency with the elemental plates/shields. But he will not be be getting his Guardian Armor aligned to an element and will not be getting the BoA or UG sets. He will purchase the Frostval Giftboxen for rarities sake but never use them.
AQ  Post #: 12
10/1/2019 19:14:26   
doomas
Member

Can you hand off Frostval gear to your other character?
AQ  Post #: 13
10/1/2019 19:51:18   
Heroes of the Scape
Member

So long as the character is a Guardian you can send it to another character through your vault.
AQ  Post #: 14
10/1/2019 19:55:24   
doomas
Member

@^ HoS Thanx that was my problem my other is not guardian.
AQ  Post #: 15
5/14/2020 19:42:46   
Tropix
Member
 

 I agree, and I too wish "rare" items (no longer possible to attain) would become available in the base game, and that they'd discontinue that horrible system of making so many items only available for a very limited time. I believe they largely ruin the game for many players, knowing they'll never be able to acquire some of their most desirable items, and even discouraging them from playing as much as they otherwise would, and even more so, purchasing Z-Token packages / spending money on the game.

This game is notorious for players taking lengthy breaks and returning, only for them to then realize they've missed out on potentially very powerful items, prohibiting them from many different builds/strategies, all because those items were only available for a very short amount of time. This detracts from the overall spirit of the game, in my opinion, of builds and strategies being fluid, and being able to earn the gear you desire, when you desire it, which is constantly fluctuating. For example, you might not have always desired to try a specific strategy/item, maybe because you were unaware of its existence, or because you thought it'd be available for you in the future, or another reason entirely, but then when the time comes for you to try it- *poof*, it's gone, likely never to return, permanently locking you out of that strategy/item, decreasing the game's potential entertainment, giving you less of a reason to continue playing, and even less of a reason to continue purchasing Z-Token packages / spending money on the game, as that's just encouraging bad behavior at that point.

I can only imagine the popularity and financial upturns this game could have if they make "rare" items available for all players... So many players would come out of the woodwork to acquire and use these items that were never before available to them, and word would spread, recruiting both new and returning players to a degree this game's never seen (in recent history, at least).
Post #: 16
5/14/2020 20:14:16   
Lance027
Member

Here's an idea: new Z-a token Package. For $50 you get 20,000 tokens and an item of your choice.
Post #: 17
5/16/2020 3:24:32   
Tropix
Member
 
quote:

Hollow has stated that there are no perma-rares now. We should leave it at that for now.


Oh really? Meaning all perma-rares that currently exist / have already been implemented are no longer perma-rare, and will return?

Man, if that's really the case, there are so many items I'm looking forward to getting, like Psychedelic Dinosaur, Pixel Guard, Pixel Ether, Accordion Shield, Frigid Zorbak Doll, Cracked Ornament, Desert Raider Cap, etc.; the list goes on and on... However, I'm skeptical as to the validity of that statement, and I'm assuming you/he meant there'd be no new/more perma-rare items implemented into the game, which is nice, but unless they release clones of those highly-desirable perma-rares, like they did with Juvenile Void Dragon (adding a "Twisted" variant), it doesn't really solve the issue.

I honestly think it's a good discussion to have, and I'm really glad this is something desired by many players. And "thanks" to the staff for listening, at the very least.
Post #: 18
5/16/2020 9:16:39   
gavers
Member
 
quote:

Personally, I believe we should leave this topic alone. We have had one arguement over rare items and such in the last week and, as usually happens, it got ugly.

Hollow has stated that there are no perma-rares now. We should leave it at that for now.

That's the most absurd statement you can make. If a thread gets out of control enough that it has to be nuked, reflect on your part in it and how you can prevent it next time without silencing other opinions.
Avoiding a sensitive subject only works when it's a personal issue, otherwise it's a destructive behavior.
Post #: 19
5/16/2020 12:53:58   
battlesiege15
Member

quote:

Oh really? Meaning all perma-rares that currently exist / have already been implemented are no longer perma-rare, and will return?
I believe it's items going here on out. Besides the Decorate Battleon quests, Frostval rares are perma rares (the ones you mentioned) and I think it's fair for it to stay that way. But, I do agree that some of those item effects and mechanics should one day be brought back in the form of an item or another similar to the reskins.

Take "perma-rares" with a grain of salt essentially. They may come back, they may not. If they do, don't be surprised they're altered art wise and given a name change (Twister recolors of old 'rare' GGBs).

Do keep in mind that the staff are doing their best to attend to aspects of the game. Newer storylines are still happening (and they're fantastic @Cray), plus older permanent quests are being addressed (Devourer Saga) to have both older and newer art as well as addition of items at the end of those quests that normally didn't even have anything.

This game is very F2P friendly and frankly I'm surprised that the staff haven't pushed for "Guardian Exclusive" content aside from Frostval Giftboxen. That being said, I would like some Guardian only features to be touched on, at least the Solaris Set which was MC'd for Guardians. Always loved that set.
AQ AQW  Post #: 20
5/16/2020 15:53:19   
Tropix
Member
 
quote:

I will also avoid labeling rare items as "perma-rare" moving forward. That does not mean a rare item will return, but assume that it could be a possibility.


Ooooh, ok, that's a lot different than there actually not being perma-rares now... It really isn't useful for them to still exist, just unlabeled, so no one will know weather or not they will ever come back. Based on that statement, it sounds like nothing might change, and he's just trying to avoid being questioned about it, but we'll see....

quote:

That's the most absurd statement you can make. If a thread gets out of control enough that it has to be nuked, reflect on your part in it and how you can prevent it next time without silencing other opinions.
Avoiding a sensitive subject only works when it's a personal issue, otherwise it's a destructive behavior.


Agreed. I mean, if they don't want to talk about it, they certainly don't have to, but there's just no way the rest of us aren't going to....

quote:

Take "perma-rares" with a grain of salt essentially. They may come back, they may not. If they do, don't be surprised they're altered art wise and given a name change (Twister recolors of old 'rare' GGBs).


I see. I have no problems with alternative artwork/colors or anything like that, it's really just the effects that I desire, and I hope they do release permanent (non-rare) alternative versions/items of all rares, making them accessible to players; that'd be really nice.
Post #: 21
5/17/2020 2:15:51   
Demistic
Member

First off, I've deleted all my previous posts because I want no further association with this thread beyond what I am about to address.

quote:

quote:

Personally, I believe we should leave this topic alone. We have had one arguement over rare items and such in the last week and, as usually happens, it got ugly.

Hollow has stated that there are no perma-rares now. We should leave it at that for now.
-Demistic


That's the most absurd statement you can make. If a thread gets out of control enough that it has to be nuked, reflect on your part in it and how you can prevent it next time without silencing other opinions.
Avoiding a sensitive subject only works when it's a personal issue, otherwise it's a destructive behavior.
-gavers


I clearly stated that this was my PERSONAL opinion. I have addressed my part in the aforementioned incident and made my apologies publicly. I have silenced the opinions of none, merely made a suggestion. If anyone has targeted another's opinion that would in fact be you, but again, that is MY opinion.
Secondly, avoiding a sensative subject soon after a polarizing incident is called prudence. Similar to how noone throws a match into a pool of gasoline.

Lastly, since I've already been called out, I'll offer my opinion on the subject.

I think the staff do an amazing job balancing f2p, p2p and premium items. Frm what I've noticed, most of the thing that are short lived rares tend to be either special rewards, reskins of other items or equipment where they are trying a new idea, which is either reused lateror abandoned depending on how it Other "rare" items are around so long the term "rare" is akin to saying a pepsi can is rare when they start a new design run. Rare/ limited run items are ment to be incentives for playing. Those items whose mechanics work great almost always reappear in one form or another. If it doesn't then maybe the staff felt it wasn't the right fit or too labor intensive to use again. Be patient, play often, and I'll garuntee that you'll see the mechanics you desire return, or you'll find something even better.
AQ DF  Post #: 22
5/17/2020 2:21:08   
RobynJoanne
Member
 

 Note: I actually agree with many of the ideas Tropix brings up, and I mostly disagreed with Demistic in the previous thread about this topic.

Nevertheless, I plead that we end this thread. The provocatory manner in which the new posts have been made and the fact that this all started from necroing a seven-month old thread make this definitely not a good way to have this conversation. Please stop fueling this topic, as we've just had something very similar, and the staff have addressed the issue to the extent that they wish to currently. Let us see how things will change from now on first before we bring up such a contentious and controversial topic again.
Post #: 23
5/19/2020 20:08:55   
Aura Knight
Member

I'm doubting this is even an issue at all.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 24
5/20/2020 0:13:23   
  Digital X

Beep Beep! ArchKnight AQ / ED


 Due to the nature of this thread, I am locking this. It can be a touchy subject and having people being called out is NOT something we wish to see here. While some posts were constructive others were getting a bit near the knuckle and I do want to see this topic descend any further.

We have a great deal of permanent content for Adventurers and Guardians alike, with more being added on a regular basis.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 25
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