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RE: Our concerns, ideas, wishes, etc to improve AQ in-game & Encyclopedia

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12/11/2019 23:36:38   
Deaf of Destiny
Member

@lolerster we do not want to nerf CIT, period. Because Mage are too overpower which warrior is not. it is the better fit for warrior.

Edited snarky tone. Please don't use personal attacks with the discussion.
-Affinity

< Message edited by Affinity -- 12/12/2019 11:16:39 >
Post #: 51
12/11/2019 23:57:04   
Aura Knight
Member

There's been mention of adding a toggle for a strength boost on CIT and that may be fair so long as it still also maintains the damage boost. The way to keep it similar to how it is now is giving it the berserker effect. Makes the most sense considering the shop it's found in and the class it's associated with. I do think there was also a comment here about making the shield reduce your health and that too might work, however as also mentioned, the stun meta allows us to simply not care for what small bit of damage we take. Fights end in one to two turns unless there's some super tanky pack monster. Eventually I'm sure the shield as well as warriors as a whole will stand equal to mages and rangers will soon follow. For a game to truly offer us free choice in what to do each build needs to be worth using.

Mages and warriors are not too distant in regard to power but in terms of efficiency, mages win. A warrior can win fights quick enough but it doesn't feel like the tactics are unique since mages use similar means of winning fights too. If we consider the subraces, both mages and warriors fight the same. There may be some variance when using the base form at times depending on stats and the situation you're in, but seems all both builds do is go into beast form and attack.

If there was a way to have warriors stand out but not outclass mages I'd be all for it. Not easy to do though.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Unrelated to the whole CIT discussion, something I want to see is more misc items and shields or any item really which you click on to do damage. I've had this idea of making an account that is not allowed to do damage except from items. Use of mp and sp will be allowed so you can use the item effects. So far I had ice, energy, and darkness covered through the LT. Lore Shield, the thunder set shield, and the box of chocolates. Essentially the build would be a defensive tank but I quickly gave up on the idea. Not even sure if we have all elements covered. But, might be nice to see such items in the future. With the game being as old as it is, I keep wanting to find unique ways to make accounts and try things I hadn't before. And with this type of account there could be damage of all three types too. Maybe one day I can make such an account and actually go through with it.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 52
12/11/2019 23:58:31   
lolerster
Member
 

 That sounds more like "amg, I don't want my build to be nerfed" than looking at it objectively.
AQ  Post #: 53
12/12/2019 0:19:54   
Aura Knight
Member

I think the shield is also used to compensate for the lack of damage boost for warriors who don't have the dunamis pet too. While the negative part of the effect is laughably weak with how easily we can boost our bonus to hit, the core part of the shield's effect is good for the game. It acts as an easily accessible item which I think should bring power close to if there was a double dunamis equipped. Not that it comes close to that but it's fairly decent. In regards to it being unbalanced, that may not be a huge concern. This isn't multiplayer. I'd be willing to accept gradual changes which keep the initial purpose of the item in question intact, but I'm opposed to any drastic changes that could ruin existing accounts and builds. The stat update confused me and made me unsure how to change my stats. I wouldn't know what to do if an item I've kept in my active inventory for a long while suddenly became useless to me. Would feel like part of my account is dead. Bit dramatic there but I'm not sure how else to say it. I don't want my build to be nerfed because that wouldn't be fair to any efforts put into making it. Adapting to changes is possible though but why fix something that not everyone is unanimous in saying is broken?

If AQ had a multiplayer aspect or even some kind of PvP the argument as to the shield being broken might be more valid. Then again, with how easy it is to get and how everyone can use it, can't exactly call it unfair.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 54
12/12/2019 8:09:56   
I Overlord I
Member

You could just, like, not try to ruin other people's fun.

Wars are tedious enough with CIT, even at max momentum. I couldn't even imagine what they'd be like without...
AQ  Post #: 55
12/12/2019 10:47:04   
lolerster
Member
 

 @Aura Knight: What about a buff to the strength stat? For example Int, increase your mana, but one possibility is to make strength increase Max SP, SP regen or health. This allows for more easy usage of armor skills while giving warriors more resources, but doesn't really take away anything from mages (Increasing hp is the same as increasing SP, only better, due to Essence Orb).

I don't agree with the idea that we should be allowed to have items that are so obviously above the power level of everything else just because it's a single player game, at least not without obvious drawbacks (e.g. the charging effect on Kindred/Book of Burns). To me, making exceptions is like saying "eh, balance doesn't matter too much". However, that's clearly not the design philosophy, with how the stats and effects on modern items are budgeted.

I think the only redeeming feature about CIT right now is, as you mentioned, it affects every build equally. In that 1 particular sense...I guess it's not completely broken? However, another way to look at it is that it is so strong, that it would be foolish to NOT run it on any optimized build. It also, as I mentioned in previous posts, make armors with skills that don't scale with it immediately inferior to those that do. I remember buying the War armor at the end of Burning Solstice, taking it to the combat trainer with CIT to test if it scales with CIT. The moment I found out it doesn't, I immediately clicked the sell button without any further consideration. There was no need to make any further considerations. The armor will never be touched again.

So here is my opinion on how it can be changed, taking into consideration all the crying I'm seeing from people who just don't want their builds nerfed:
  • Make its effect a toggle effect that scale to strength, while giving it a SP/HP cost.
  • This will make it unique to warriors since everyone seems to think this item is more associated with warriors than mages.
  • It can keep the damage boost. However, it will have an appropriate penalty to BTH, with the penalty increasing with higher strength.
  • For instance, at 0 strength, it will provide +0% damage and -0 BTH. For every 5 strength you gain, it will increase the damage boost by 1%, and -0.6 BTH, capping at 250 strength, providing you with +50% damage and -30 BTH. These are just sample numbers obviously, with adjustments to it based on actual balance calcs.
  • Its defensive stats should be buffed appropriately to its new effect.
  • This achieves several things. First, it gives it a distinct strength and weakness, as it would still extremely be strong against mobs with low MRM, but becomes increasingly weaker agianst mobs with high MRM, thus balancing it for its very high damage boost. It makes a very clear distinction that it is for warriors/rangers, just like how Celtic Wheel is specifically made for mages. Finally, it also makes a distinction between armor types - it pushes armors with weapon-based skills are pushed more towards warriors, but they are not penalized too hard for using armor skills that don't scale with it due to the upkeep cost/accuracy penalty associated with it.
    • AQ  Post #: 56
    12/12/2019 12:01:44   
    Warren.
    Member
     

    		 +1 to the trading system. and a shield with a 50 STR toggle. here I go further on the idea: http://forums2.battleon.com/f/fb.asp?m=22372341

    < Message edited by Warren. -- 12/14/2019 13:50:05 >
    Post #: 57
    12/12/2019 12:52:42   
    VendettaX
    Member

    		+1 for Stat Update.

    On topic, I'm a bit concerned they'll make all builds more independent from DEX but still leave rangers forced to take STR and DEX all the way. Please give all pure builds the same love
    AQ  Post #: 58
    12/12/2019 12:59:53   
    lolerster
    Member
     

    		 I think 1 possibility is that they can make dex a pure range stat and distribute its other benefits to endurance and luck.
    AQ  Post #: 59
    12/12/2019 13:03:30   
    Bu Kek Siansu
    Member


    Till here, added, thanks.


    I have added the Player's Suggestions separate in my first post.

    We wish once a month or 3 months or 6 months or even once a year any of the Player's Suggestions would be implemented.

    Feel free to add your own suggestion and/or from other(s) you like/wish to be implemented including a link & your Vote.
    It would be better if you give a comment and/or a reason instead of just +1.
  • The Player's Suggestions part contains the total amount of Votes from Items/Class armors/etc by all players.

    ................................................. Votes

    Player's Suggestions .................... 1

    The Warden Set by Primate Murder ... 1
    1. I like this MC Energy set with its passive effect. This set could be as a 50K Z-Token Package Set or a GGB Set. +1


    • Post #: 60
    12/12/2019 13:05:18   
    Aura Knight
    Member

    		Such a change would help a bit if we assume extra power to the strength stat would allow for higher armor skill damage for warrior builds. If it would also end up increasing our max SP amount it would also make essence orb needed less so long as we're patient enough to wait for the bar to be filled. But a the same time it could make essence orb even more necessary to have in our active inventory.

    As for the suggested changes to the shield, they don't seem bad and they do keep the initial theme of the shield. My one concern is that it would affect the meta of high damage nukes from skills used by mages too. Right now I think we may be trying to separate mages by making them only focus on spells but armor skills have played a major role in such builds too. For things to be fair I think there should be a sort of neutral boost on the shield that helps all builds but then it gets an increase based on your strength stat. Mages are already strong through use of their own effects but if we also allow the shield to boost power for warriors more that might help balance things a bit. With the appropriate penalties it could work fine. How about having a 20% damage boost initially and then giving the shield a charge system that costs either hp or sp that is only available for those who have points in the strength stat where it caps at the 50% damage increase and the -30 bth you suggested?

    This would help warrior builds more than mages but also still allow the shield to be used by mages by giving it a lesser boost too. I think mage builds would be just fine even with a slightly lower damage boost. Also, we could completely remove the defenses on the shield and only have it offer power. Not sure if we ever had such a thing but a +0 to all or maybe a reduction to MRM in exchange for outgoing damage increase might be a fair trade.

    Regarding the concern that rangers don't have their own unique stat, I agree it's an issue. Perhaps it's time we stop looking at Dex as a secondary stat that can be used by all builds and make it exclusive as a main stat for rangers. The current bth effects could be moved to charisma or luck for warrior and mage builds.

    < Message edited by Aura Knight -- 12/12/2019 13:08:28 >
    AQ DF AQW  Post #: 61
    12/12/2019 13:11:35   
    lolerster
    Member
     

    		 I think charge up system is a great idea. In fact, as seen from kindred items and Book of Burns, such an item may not even need such a large bth penalty, due to the time investment needed to make it work. The main concern is that it might slow down farming, as some pointed out.

    I think we need to move as much power from dex to end as possible (maybe not the accuracy part, but certainly the blocking part), since it's just too weak. Admittedly though, more HP = more essence orb, so technically END is indirectly increasing your sp.

    Unfortunately, Essence Orb has already become too essential part of every build. Maybe it can have limited uses per turn, but my experience with the Soul Gauntlet tells me that it doesn't change much.

    Also +1 to the Warden set...but maybe add a wand/bow variant?


    < Message edited by lolerster -- 12/12/2019 13:15:14 >
    AQ  Post #: 62
    12/12/2019 13:25:35   
    Bu Kek Siansu
    Member


    ^ Added, thanks.


    Post #: 63
    12/12/2019 14:54:06   
    J9408
    Member

    		lolerster
    quote:

    For instance, at 0 strength, it will provide +0% damage and -0 BTH. For every 5 strength you gain, it will increase the damage boost by 1%, and -0.6 BTH, capping at 250 strength, providing you with +50% damage and -30 BTH. These are just sample numbers obviously, with adjustments to it based on actual balance calcs.


    Never heard of this one. This sounds great! It fits with the Berserker theme!

    < Message edited by J9408 -- 12/12/2019 15:11:28 >
    Post #: 64
    12/13/2019 19:23:41   
    Deaf of Destiny
    Member

    		Hello Buk, i have an idea about void challenge per months alike Dragonfable "Inn at the Edge of Time"
    Post #: 65
    12/13/2019 21:48:42   
    Zoulexchanger
    Member

    		^

    I dont know what that is but I like that you are mentioning Void Challenge!
    Post #: 66
    12/13/2019 23:18:25   
    Dekoras
    Member

    		Had a lot of similar thoughts on the stat dilemma. I think it would make more sense to have weapon types scale damage and BTH off their respective stats, so STR = melee, DEX = ranged, INT = magic. END could be made to increase chance of blocking hits, and potentially increase the amount/regen of SP. CHA and LUK are probably fine as is. Seems like a more fair spread of stat bonuses and would help to promote build diversity.

    As for CIT, I like some of the ideas that were thrown around, but I am heavily opposed to a charge system. Maybe I'm in the minority, but it seems to me that Book of Burns and Kindred are quite literally the 2 most OP items in the game, and using a charge system (with no checks/balances) is what makes them this way. I don't really see how the investment of time is a justifiable "cost" to having equipment that can 1 shot any monster in the game, including bosses. I was really pumped when I found out Kindred got revamped, but rather disappointed when I found out just how unbalanced it became. Aren't bosses supposed to be challenges for a reason? There's not much to do at lv 150 besides optimizing equipment and fighting some tough monsters, and with equipment like this, it takes away any feeling of accomplishment you'd normally get from challenge battles. I'd definitely advocate for an alteration of some sort, like how Kindred used to be - that is, losing its charge when you swap equipment or face a new monster. Not sure how everyone else feels about it, but in the interest of balance, I don't see how these items can remain in the game in their current forms.

    Whether or not CIT is updated to have a STR toggle function, I think a shield should be implemented that has one. Warriors are long overdue for a Celtic Wheel!

    Also, I know AQ was always meant to be a single player game, so PvP is probably out of the question. However, it would be cool if there could be some sort of chat function implemented to let you talk with other online players or send them messages. Not sure if that's possible, but figured I'd throw out the idea.
    AQ  Post #: 67
    12/14/2019 0:02:49   
    J9408
    Member

    		I think the charge system issue could be fix by implementing a cap.

    As for lore explanation - Book of Burns get too hot, You have achieved a peaceful mind(tranquility) for Kindred etc.
    Post #: 68
    12/14/2019 0:30:15   
    lolerster
    Member
     

    		 I support putting a cap or some other kind of restriction on those items.
    AQ  Post #: 69
    12/14/2019 3:46:38   
    blex12345
    Member
     

    		 Please put in my vote:
    New stat system: +1
    In-game encyclopedia: +1
    Nothing else to add. Thank you.
    Post #: 70
    12/14/2019 5:26:06   
    Bu Kek Siansu
    Member


    ^ Added, thanks.


    Deaf of Destiny:

    Did you mean a Void Challenge - 1 monster per month (selected Randomly from the past Void monsters)?

    or a Void Challenge - 1 New monster per month?


    AFAIK, there are 3 types of Players:

    1). Veteran Players who are excellent/super with strategies and in challenge/battle against harder monsters.
    These players love/like a hard challenge. The harder the better.
    Some of them cannot stop to find out an item to nerf, to give more penalties, to put a cap or some kind of restriction.

    2). Casual Players who just like to play the game for (more) fun, not difficult, not complicated, etc.
    Many of them love/like Purple Rain, Essence Orb, CIT and Kindred set with their current effects as they are now.

    3). Many of these players are (mostly) worst with strategies and struggling against harder monsters.
    You can say, they should learn better with strategies, but they cannot improve their strategies for some reason.
    Many of them cannot follow your advice how to beat a harder monster for some reason.
    Many of them love/like Purple Rain, Essence Orb, CIT and Kindred set with their current effects as they are now.

    If you want to nerf, give more penalties, etc, it should be based on all type of players as I mentioned above.
    It's not good if it's just based on the type of Veteran Players.

    spoiler:

    As needed, a bit nerf, a bit penalty, but not too much. Got it? Thanks. :)




    Post #: 71
    12/14/2019 14:52:57   
    Deaf of Destiny
    Member

    		@Bu Kek Siansu new monster per month
    Post #: 72
    12/14/2019 16:40:58   
    Bu Kek Siansu
    Member


    ^ Added, thanks.

    We need more Votes for the Player's Suggestions.


    We wish once a month or 3 months or 6 months or even once a year any of the Player's Suggestions would be implemented.

    Feel free to add your own suggestion and/or from other(s) you like/wish to be implemented including a link & your Vote.
    It would be better if you give a comment and/or a reason instead of just +1.
  • The Player's Suggestions part contains the total amount of Votes from Items/Class armors/etc by all players.

    ................................................. Votes

    Player's Suggestions .................... 2

    The Warden Set by Primate Murder ** 2
    1. I like this MC Energy set with its passive effect. This set could be as a 50K Z-Token Package Set or a GGB Set. +1
    2. +1 to the Warden set...but maybe add a wand/bow variant?


    • Post #: 73
    12/14/2019 16:54:30   
    Aura Knight
    Member

    		Wish we could have the classic werepyre look instead of the current subrace art. Something about the older design looked better. If that could be its own 2-hit darkness armor, I'd be pretty happy. Maybe with a better healing effect when you have the correct subrace. Percentage of damage dealt rather than just a heal of 5 only. I very much doubt they'd do this but I can still hope.

    And while I'm on the subject, giving the option to use classic art or new designs on nostalgic items would be great. Probably can't happen though. Eye of Naab for instance has to be one of the more iconic items of AQ's past and unfortunately the new design doesn't give it the same feel.
    AQ DF AQW  Post #: 74
    12/14/2019 18:38:04   
    Dekoras
    Member

    		What if there was a sandbox mode? Like, combat practice but you can alter all different types of game mechanics... ie. modify the monster's resists, bth, damage, hp/mp/sp, etc. Even possibly search for what monster you want to fight (Roc, Zard, Drakel, etc.) and it would load that monster as your opponent. Could even play around with different buffs so that you can mimic certain challenge or quest bosses, like giving the monster freedom, damage cap or other unique statuses. Would make it easier to adequately prepare for certain monsters (War Torn Dragon, Demon King) without having to go through an entire quest each time, only to find out the strategy/equipment you planned on using doesn't cut it. It can also just be used to do fun things, like hit the damage cap or stun the monster for X amount of turns. Seems like it would benefit casual and veteran players alike.
    AQ  Post #: 75
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