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=DF= January 3rd Design Notes: Corrupted Seven: Pride

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1/3/2020 23:37:31   


Proud Cat
January 03, 2020
Corrupted Seven: Pride

Hey there, heroes!
This week in DragonFable, the corrupted elemental spirit of Pride has appeared at the Arena at the Edge of Time!

Show some humility and take down Pride in order to earn the Chibi Pride cape, and be prepared for the next Corrupted Seven update, when the locked chest finally opens!

Head over to the Inn at the Edge of Time to take on this month's challenge.
The Mr. Nameless/Remthalas war has been moved to the Frostval Storybook and Uaanta's Maleurous questline.
The January Dragon Coin special is here! Dracelix has forged the Scythe of the New Dawn, filled with the spirit of the new year to come. Has a chance to apply the Spiritworks DoT on your enemy!

Have feedback about today's release, or the game? Having trouble with any fights? Want to discuss all things DragonFable?

Join the discussion on the official forums!

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DF  Post #: 1
1/3/2020 23:50:00   

Really great release, Pride is definitely the strongest of the corrupted spirits! I almost feel bad being able to just completely cheese such a complex boss with Void Barrier, haha.
DF  Post #: 2
1/3/2020 23:56:30   

Weren't the mechanics of health resist changed so that was no longer possible? And I don't really want to cheese out with that strategy.
And any hints how the gimmick works? DOTs still do damage to Pride normally.

I'm guessing that the final challenge will be all seven together? No idea what the reward could be though.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 3
1/4/2020 0:19:22   


any hints how the gimmick works?


the number of effects (both buffs and debuffs) on your chara must be lower than the sum pride's self buffs in order to harm him, with the exeption that superior superiority counts as a -1 instead of a +1
DF  Post #: 4
1/4/2020 0:29:21   


Does it count all effects or just buffs/nerfs? Do DoTs and HoTs, void barrier, and defense boosts count?

Also do we need the spoiler tag the mechanics of the fight? I haven't in previous challenge threads.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 5
1/4/2020 0:46:31   

See my biggest problem with this fight is that every single move it does seem rng based, and a couple of bad draws can make you almost unable to complete it and you have to reset.

If you get a -1 Superiority turn 1, you can be completly screwed. Its gonna take forver to get to a point you can actually fight it, and nothing you do is gonna change that. Say you use a class that only debuffs, its still gonna make you unable to act with -1 or even -2 since it stack, and by that point you are completly done .Also couldnt the all resist cap at 99 instead of going over 100 for pride. Pride's core mechanic is completly fine on its own, but introducing rng into it seems unnessesary imo. I would describe Gluttony as "complex", it reacts diffrently depending on what actions you make/ its fulness, so you have to figure out counters to those situation/aviode those situations and you can plan around them .i cant say the same for a fight thats so rng based, since its core mechanic is not that complex.

< Message edited by Vikken101 -- 1/4/2020 0:52:32 >
Post #: 6
1/4/2020 1:21:22   

@Kurtz96- all of them count regardless of type , as for the spoiler tags im just assuming some people want to figure it out on their own and not accidently read the mechanics in some random post... there is no harm in adding a tag just to be safe.

and yes the battle is very RNG dependant even when you have everything figured out
DF  Post #: 7
1/4/2020 1:26:03   

OK, I caved and used the void barrier strategy to beat Pride 5 times. I have to say it is very quick and pretty easy, not really affected by RNG. Of course not everyone has DmK and it is pretty unsatisfying to win this way.
I think a more defensive class might be needed here. Stall for the first few turns until Pride has a few boosts, nerf him rather than buff yourself. Rely on DoTs to do damage.

< Message edited by Kurtz96 -- 1/4/2020 1:34:33 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 8
1/4/2020 1:26:22   

I'd agree that RNG is kind of yucky here, but not enough to label the whole fight as RNG dependent; while there exists the possibility to get really bad rolls at the worst possible time it's not completely overbearing IMO. The two things you REALLY don't want are it to roll the All resist or the MPM later in the fight, as the buffs snowball pretty quickly; the sheer power of these two specific buffs combined with the fact that you can't control or reliably predict when it'll use them can make a bad roll a real kick in the teeth. The countermeasure is of course not stalling out the fight long enough for the buffs to get really scary, but the sheer defensive power they provide the boss kind of trumps that lol.

Anyway, the gimmick here is that Pride won't take damage unless you have fewer buffs than it does. It buffs itself every other turn and the buffs get stronger with each use, so you want to stall a bit during the first few turns of the fight but then end it QUICKLY once you're able to deal damage. Picking your class is important too; you obviously don't want something that casts a lot of buffs on itself (multiple people on Discord complained about the fight's difficulty while refusing to use anything other than classes like Epoch or Archivist) and something with a purge skill will obviously be a great asset. I found Soulweaver with the Baltael's Aventail artifact to be of great use here; the long duration on the shield allows you to safely stall out the first few turns of the fight and the class's incredible burst potential allows you to finish it quickly once you get in. Other people have found success with Chaosweaver, though I haven't tried it yet and can't offer input there.

A really fun fight, I loved this release!

EDIT: Ranger is good too. Same idea here, shield immediately and start setting up your Focus while Pride sets up superiority so you both come out swinging.

< Message edited by TFS -- 1/4/2020 3:10:35 >
DF  Post #: 9
1/4/2020 5:18:28   

A very enjoyable fight with great artwork. The cape is also my favourite of these seven. Pride's mechanics are nice, and RNG can be a bit annoying, but not impossible in my opinion. Like @TFS suggested, Ranger is a good free choice in this fight, as even if Pride's superiority is even or less than your buffs/debuffs, you can still use poison dot on him. I managed to defeat him with Ranger, DmK and Eternal Epoch.

Also, a good tip is to have your immobility be over 100 (all + immobility) so that you cannot be stunned. That way, it's one debuff less to worry. Unhallowed/Zeclem Death Knight items are also great for this fight, as those raise your Immobility and Darkness resists.

< Message edited by Dratomos -- 1/4/2020 5:29:32 >
DF  Post #: 10
1/4/2020 7:13:18   

I like how having guests- not being proud enough to fight alone- is even more help than usual in this fight (as most give themselves no buffs and can always hit). Very flavorful.


His followers called him Mahasamatman, and claimed he was a god.
He never claimed to be a god, but then, he never claimed not to be a god.
Circumstances being what they were, neither admission could be of any benefit.
Silence, though, could.
DF  Post #: 11
1/4/2020 10:39:37   

I had an unusually lucky run with Sir Leon and Artix after like 15 or 20 very disappointing runs. Used Frozen Claymore to weaken him / her to Ice. I was pleased to finally down Pride though, especially after he / she was buffed this morning!

< Message edited by Cyrenius -- 1/4/2020 11:13:34 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 12
1/4/2020 14:17:05   

How was Pride buffed? Is it just HP increase?

Does he count the DoT he inflicts in the calculations of effects on each person?

< Message edited by Kurtz96 -- 1/4/2020 14:41:42 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 13
1/4/2020 14:58:04   

^It was actually more of a (unnecessary, IMO) nerf; while the boss has more HP, the buffs don't rack up nearly as fast anymore and are now largely ignorable. Bit disappointed that we got a bit of a tougher fight for once and it was immediately softened up, but eh.


Does he count the DoT he inflicts in the calculations of effects on each person?

It counts every status effect on you, including DoTs and stuns.

< Message edited by TFS -- 1/4/2020 14:59:17 >
DF  Post #: 14
1/5/2020 9:40:40   
The ErosionSeeker
*insert cheesy pun here*

I wish this fight didn't have the janky RNG of having 1 of 8 different effects apply every other turn. Having all 8 go in a sequence, or having it so every category (mpm/bpd/all, crit/bth/boost, vol/super) only triggered between them, would make the fight less unfun random.
Yes, Pride can't use the same effect multiple times in a row anymore, but having the fight still so RNG-heavy makes it impossible to make a consistent strategy against hitspam damagespam, which is what leads terrible people (like me) to use Void Barrier in the first place.
DF AQW  Post #: 15
1/5/2020 23:28:09   

I'm getting tired of having to grind a quest multiple times every single release. It's gotten to the point where it's been almost a full year(!) since the last inn challenge came out in February 2019 where we didn't have to do the same fight just to get the reward, that being Ancient Duo.

Pride herself added some variance so it's not the exact same fight 5 times, but the way her RNG was implemented made it frustrating enough that I just facerolled with Chaosweaver anyway, since I kept rolling Superior Superiority turn 1. I really dislike how Corrupted 7 is just 5 easy fights that encourage you to farm with Doomknight or Chaosweaver rather than encouraging new strategies or interesting classes. Over the past year, it really feels like all the inn challenges are being homogenized to the point of encouraging faceroll mechanics like guests and high damage classes, while disincentivizing classes that can't farm as effectively or don't have the specific mechanics needed to play the strategies that some bosses effectively now require.
DF  Post #: 16
1/6/2020 0:04:20   

ArchKnight DragonFable

@above: I agree. Ever since Exaltia came along, doing the same thing over to get an item was fine. But slowly over time, it became a chore because the experience is the same each time, which is made worse as the Corrupted Seven board offer cosmetic capes. Speaking of Exaltia, despite the fact that every experience is slightly different, there is still a level of repetition because you have to stick your class's game plan. It also does not help that we have a lot of 1v1 fights recently, which makes easy prey for Chaosweaver and Doomknight due to autostuns and other things like Void Barrier for certain fights in lesser extent. And there's the fact that those classes along with guests ignores much of the challenge's mechanics.
DF  Post #: 17
1/6/2020 0:19:48   

I find myself kind of agreeing with the above posts. It seems like this past year, between AARGH, Exaltia Tower, the Corrupted Seven, and the Challenger's Gauntlet that the Inn challenges have shifted away from the "do this hard fight one time" design philosophy and towards "do this easy fight five times." While some people prefer grinding and there's obviously going to be a variety of content in the Inn, it's been quite a while since people like me who would prefer doing a hard fight once to doing an easy fight several times got such a release. I think the last time we got a fight that was actually really difficult (and required only one completion) was the Ancient Duo, and then before that the Unraveler Ex. And Failed Doom before it got nerfed the day after, but that doesn't really count.

While the Exaltia Tower is obviously a full-blown dungeon with more things going on than just the boss monsters I don't think it's fair to include it in this scope of criticism, but I agree with the above posts as far as the Corrupted Seven board is concerned. None of these fights were particularly difficult (except arguably Pride, which then got nerfed) and to make up for that had to be completed five times each in order to earn their respective rewards. Same with the Challenger's Gauntlet. AARGH and Exaltia already exist for (comparatively) low-difficulty timesink grinding and the release of two more boards with the same design philosophy was a little excessive IMO. Like, if I want to grind the same easy quest over and over there's more than enough to tide me over in the entire rest of the game.

There's also the fact that the recent emphasis on 1v1 fights rather than duos/trios is kind of making the DF Meta(tm) stale. Only having to worry about one target rewards risky or hyperoffense playstyles and mechanic bypasses (like autostuns, reflects, or autohits), making Chaosweaver and DoomKnight (with or without Void Barrier) by far the best choice for almost every inn challenge that's come out in the past year. Combine this with the fact that each of these fights has to be completed several times (read: farmed quickly) and it almost feels like all of these fights are designed specifically for DoomKnight and Chaosweaver. While of course there should be a time and place for every playstyle and there's nothing wrong with running this one particular playstyle, between AARGH, Exaltia, Corrupted Seven, and Displaced Fates it feels like half the Inn is just there to be DoomKnight/Chaosweaver fodder at this point. The prevalence of low-difficulty grind-oriented challenges kind of punishes you for not doing the exact repetitive thing for every new Inn challenge, which I think is what @shrike meant. I don't think the issue lies with these two classes as much as it does with a meta that punishes you for using anything else.

Uh, just my thoughts. I'm not really complaining or dissatisfied with recent releases, I just like being overly analytical lol. I would prefer if we got difficulty-oriented (as opposed to grind-oriented) challenges again in the future and it's kinda good to see that other people think the same thing.
DF  Post #: 18
1/6/2020 1:05:30   

@TFS You bring up a good point about the emphasis on single challenges as opposed to duos and trios. I was initially posting about how the inn experience feels very homogenous recently, but your post seems like an accurate assessment of part of the problem. I don't have an issue with Exaltia existing, since it was really unique at release, but every other board has followed a similar structure since.

Another thing I want to add is that I really dislike how so many recent challenges push classes completely out of practicality. No other classes other than Chaosweaver and Doomknight can farm the Corrupted 7 board without even knowing the mechanics of the fights, and nothing is nearly as efficient. There's no reason to ever use a defensive class such as Cryptic, Paladin, Necromancer, Patience Dragonlord, Ninja, or countless others, to farm Exaltia 5 times or do the Challenger Gauntlet. I don't think there's anything wrong with certain playstyles or classes being favoured in certain challenges, but I don't like how for the past year, challenges only incentivize grinding a fight multiple times for the drops. It seems like an entire playstyle is being being disincentivized from the Inn in recent times, which disappoints me when questing favours farming and hyperoffense as well. I don't want to see defensive classes favoured in every single challenge, but I also don't want to be offensive classes as the always indisputable best in every recent challenge.
DF  Post #: 19
1/6/2020 3:35:48   
DragonFable Boxcat

Some comments regarding feedback:

Regarding "having to grind bosses multiple times now":
For the Exaltia tower in particular, this was a design decision that Dove really, really wanted for the tower. To have to repeat it and make different choices each time to earn a resource to earn rewards. This is not an excuse. I agreed that it would be interesting, but significantly lowered the number of times needed to complete for rewards that were originally planned.

For the Corrupted Seven, the bosses are relatively easier in order to facilitate beating them multiple times. Is 5 times each too much? Maybe. But at the same time, it's only 5 times each for an optional reward. The difficulty level is intentional, and having to beat them multiple times to counteract that difficulty for a cosmetic reward seems like a fair compromise to me.

These "non-traditional" boards thus have "non-traditional" reward schemes.

For the Challenger Gauntlet, I think the completion # was perhaps a bit overboard, but at the same time, it isn't necessarily the hardest challenge, and I tried to provide variety by randomizing the order of the challengers each time.

Regarding "Fights are for Chaosweaver now":
Balancing fights against fast hyperoffense like Chaosweaver is... difficult. Enemies with low hp get smashed, enemies that want to set up get smashed before they can set up, enemies that provide small openings for being hurt get smashed during those openings, etc.
Chaosweaver is more efficient for shorter, "easier" fights due to its overwhelming power. That's not fights favoring Chaosweaver so much as Chaosweaver being too powerful. So unfortunately, when I do make simpler challenges, Chaosweaver reigns supreme. And when I make fights intended for offensive classes, Chaosweaver just sweeps because it's just so good.

The feedback has given me a lot to think about. I have some ideas for new mechanics that would counteract hyperoffense, but it's also possible that Chaosweaver itself needs some tweaks; for example, more drawbacks to gambit, a lower damage power spike, or weaker defenses. It's got a powerful niche, but it pushes out all other options from it currently.

Could I leave Chaosweaver alone and just design better? Sure. But Chaosweaver would still always be the overwhelmingly best at hyperoffense then. So I would rather do both: Limit Chaosweaver to be more in line with other offensive options (while retaining its playstyle and general questing utility), as well as design better fights that open up other options.

In summary:
Exaltia Tower was designed to be grinded, but not too much. Corrupted Seven were intended to be less challenging, and thus the reward takes a bit more effort. Challenger Gauntlet was perhaps a bit much. Chaosweaver is a bit too strong, but I can also do a better job of designing fights.

AQ MQ  Post #: 20
1/6/2020 7:04:46   

I just found out that Pride can change its element of attack to light and fire instead of Darkness element during my fail attempt

I was actually using Paladin to figure out a way to beat him ,it seemed possible to withstand alot of Darkness damage but my damage output wasnt able to make a significant dent .....The fight kept dragging until Pride changes its element and defeated me

Are those element change attacks intended or some glitch? Shouldn't Pride stick to its Darkness element only?

I was wondering if Paladin's skills could get some damage output boosts XD,it will atleast make that class be in use ,rather than it being hanged at that museum
Post #: 21
1/6/2020 7:17:13   

Well, for me, having to do some challenges over and over isn't that bad thing. Since this week we got only one fight, it makes sense to me to do it few times more for a cosmetic reward. Where as in traditional boards, we got usually three.

And I loved Exaltia Tower and for me, doing it many times was nice to see all variables it could give.

And the difficulty hasn't been the problem, free classes, like Ranger, Technomancer and DeathKnight are still pretty ok choices for Inn.

But the Chaosweaver problem? It is. It is a class one has to use money to get, so it makes sense to have it be more powerful than free classes. But it also destroys other DC classes. Pyromancer, Gnomish Personal Steamtank Mk II and Ascended Chickencow Armor (it can be bought with gold) are not nearly as good, even though they cost the same amount. Ancient Exosuit and Icebound Revenant are okay, but not viable choices for Inn anymore. And they don't make the fight impossible, just pretty hard for a paid class, whereas Chaosweaver can be used in almost any fight.

And I get that they aren't the biggest worry to fix, and it makes sense to buff free classes that all players use, than DC classes. But I hope that these DC classes will be buffed in the future.

But a possible fix for Chaosweaver? It is hard. Maybe lock it so that the fight must be completed at least once before it can be used? If that kind of system can be implemented.
DF  Post #: 22
1/6/2020 8:58:16   

@verly Honestly the biggest problem with chaosweaver is its autostun, a guaranteed stun at any point in the fight against enemies with 200 immo is obscenely good, it deals big chunk of damage while under gambit, allows for more safe setting up with baby dragon during gambit, a turn of delay to vomit more obscene damage out and as the cherry on top has enough hits to be a decent fish for onhits. Autostuns are fine in concept but definitely shouldnt be on hyper agressive classes, the same issue can be seen with dmk and malefic grasp. Autostuns belong on defensive classes like necromancer that cant capitalise on them to rip out 4k damage in a turn risk free.

Void barrier is also a problem I guess. It seems like most inn releases I see tfs go "time to beat this boss without learning anything about the fight with void barrier lmao" and then he does, though this is probably more of a symptom of all the 1v1 fights that reward hyperagressive playstyles and being risky.

As for challenger gauntlet. It was just a massively tedious quest with bulky enemies that have obnoxious abilities like giving themselves 200 mpm or perma 75 all. You could either slowly slog through it 15 times over the course of most likely several hours or you could just farm it in 30 minutes while ignoring every mechanic with a certain paid class that has already been brought up. Neither of those outcomes are particularly fun or engaging and that phrase about summarises most of the recent inn content we've gotten starting from kerfluffle. Most of the inn content this year starting from doomkitten/guffa has more or less been questing and grinding with very little strategy required except in the inn instead of whatever new story quest has a nice ring or belt to farm for. If you can beat an easy supeboss once there shouldnt be any real need to to it 5 to 15 more times, you've already proven that you can beat it and being forced to do anymore that just feels like quantity over quality and padding the release out, especially when exalted's choices didnt effect anywhere near enough to warrant doing it tons of times to experience all the whacky possibilities. You either picked the good choices or the not so bad ones and finished the quest using the same gameplan and rotations you always use or you got really bad choices multiple times and you just lose because the bosses got something like 120 mpm (this scenario is exceedingly rare though and i've only encountered something like that once)

Inn in general this year except for ancient duo which is a really really good fight has just become something that's excessively easy with the only "challenge" being having the patience to grind out the rewards from these boringly easy and tedious quests that you have to do from 5 to 15 times. Questing/grinding should be in everywhere except for the inn and superbosses that demand the player's knowledge of the game with a requirement of thought for strategies, equipment builds, stat builds and pet/trinket usage should be in the inn. A little variance on that is fine but corrupted 7 and exaltia have taken up nearly an entire year with only a handful of actually interesting fights like gluttony and engineer to show for it and a whole ton of wasted potential bosses that are too easy to live up to those cool mechanics you put into them, envy being a prime prime example (what was the point of having that whole jealousy stack mechanic and his reactions to being attacked while "ready" when you just faceroll envy on your first try before you've even figured out what he does)

< Message edited by Cronomancer Callum -- 1/6/2020 9:17:56 >
DF  Post #: 23
1/6/2020 9:06:02   

I don't think there's any inherent problem with different kinds of challenges. We already have challenges like Timetorn Matrix and Tog Invasion that break the mold, so I think Exaltia as a type of endgame questing is a cool concept. However, it feels like every release has been non traditional, to the point that we haven't had a "normal" challenge in nearly a full year.

I really don't think there's an issue in some challenges favouring offensive classes, or in some challenges being differently designed from the standard of 2 unique enemies than a duo. The problem is when every challenge is weak solo enemies designed to be an easy grind, to the point where most of the challenge is in figuring out the mechanics only after you finish the fight.

Sure, many classes are capable of doing the challenges. In fact, many floors of Exaltia and the Corrupted 7 are doable with any class, to the point of being too easy. That doesn't change the fact that the Inn has recently solely encouraged hyperoffensive farming, grinding out multiple easy challenges rather than single hard fights. This is a pattern that started even before Chaosweaver entered development, and while I think Chaosweaver exacerbates the issue, it's more indicative of an overall trend in the Inn. I think this repetition even takes away from the uniqueness of Exaltia and the identity of different boards, if you're expected to farm them out multiple times like regular questing. I don't think Chaosweaver necessarily needs a nerf, but if all the recent challenges are solo fights where none of its weaknesses truly come into play, it might need one anyway.

I think there were several good fights recently! Gluttony was an interesting fight, Wrath was a good example of RNG, and the Warden punished mistakes. It's just that there's a lack of variety in the Inn that makes it feel like entire playstyles are discouraged, since there are now so many easy fights that are meant to be quickly farmed like Envy and now Pride after the nerf.
DF  Post #: 24
1/6/2020 10:39:33   

Just throwing my opinion on the resent Inn fights out there:
For Exaltia in particular, you really feel the "this is easier because of the grind" intention. I still think the 8-10 times beating the Floor was a bit excessive, and 5 would have been fine for more difficulty. You can feel in floor one there was some trial and error with the tower was suppose to be designed. The clearest example being it originally having 5-6 floor, which got changed. However, i am still fine with that, since the bosses still hold up difficult department, not as difficult as a normal inn boss, but still fine, even if its health was nerfed. If i'm not incorrect their health was nerf when it was 6 floors, so maybe giving the health back when it was only 3 floors would have been fine?

However you really start to feel the easiness is in floor 2-4 were a da class like Technomancer(floor 1 is easy for it too) steam rolls the floors (baring healing your mana before Bound terror). In addition, i do wish that it was a 5 time play through in exchange for more difficulty. For example, before the Archevist nerf, the Archivist boss fight, it was a genuine difficult fight, which made you really think and work around the fact that its debuffs were non-hitcheck. And imo you could really feel it was probably nerfed so you could go through it several times, while if it was a normal inn challenge it would have been that difficult. Also the idea that you can go through the tower several times with different buffs/debuffs is nice until you realize that you just reset the the floor until you get good rolls every run, and then every run more or less being the same. (you could argue its your own fault the fight is easy then, but making the bosses/normal enemies artificially more difficult with more avoidance for example, does not feel naturally integrated in fight imo.)

I do however; think that Apex is genuinely difficult for a da player without Dmk/Cw, even when you know its mechanics. And thats clearly reflected in how many times you have to beat the challenge, and i would have been more satisfied with the tower overall if it leaned that way.

Speaking of optimal cosmetic's, in regards to C7. I think having a grind for cosmetic is fine, but when they have no stats attached to them, you feel like they are not worth grinding, at least the optional cosmetics in the Exaltia tower still had stats. As a result, i wanted to grind even though, even though the total runs you had to get through was much higher. Lets say when the C7 board is completed, there is nothing stopping a player for doing every boss once, and getting to the chest, supposing the reward is really worth it. Making the board severely easy to complete, though this could be mitigated by the final reward requiring several merge items from the bosses. This is to say, that I have noticed less enthusiasm for the C7 then the Exaltia tower, I think the main reason is that Exaltia delivered in the refreshes of a new concept and new lore in addition to a clear promise of good rewards, which mitigates the challenge easiness and grind to some extent. While seeing the rest of the C7 has been a wish for a long while, I think the novelty wore off when, you realized that you wont get anything worthwhile until the boards completion. The Gauntlet while easy, I can “forgive” a little more, since it was a sudden change from what was originally planned as a release.

Btw, I do really hope for another release like the Exaltia Tower in the future though after some normal boards, exploring more lore through more difficult fights is awsome, but maybe next time trade some of the grinding more difficulty, and have optional items for a longer grind.

Lastly, i do think the complaints comes from bad timing imo. going from the most difficult fight in the game Ancient Duo. later an easy duo like Kerfluffel, then Exaltia and then C7 alternating and coming right after eachother then Gauntley, so some some general challenge is needed. Had Any of these challenges alternated with a normal inn board instead, with the used to challenge, it would have been more fine.

< Message edited by Vikken101 -- 1/6/2020 10:56:49 >
Post #: 25
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