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RE: =DF= August 13th/30th Design Notes: The Maleurous: Reckoning

 
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8/23/2021 7:09:57   
Laeon val Observis
Member
 

Ummm... it's explicitly parenthesized at the end of each of the items' descriptions that they are cosmetic-only. Be more weirded out that the weapons are NDA as displaying as cosmetic is a DA only feature. Their dmg does get boosted by standard STR/DEX/INT calculations, but why would you use them as an equippable outside of Dragonslayer vs Triple Trouble (possible, if Astral's video pony-equipped DS vs said triad were to be referenced) or trying to edge Wolfing (suboptimal, and the fight is risky as is)? While I can understand that there can be possible gripes on cosmetic-only releases, do note that there are plenty of BiS gear scattered around the game already alongside situational/suboptimal and mundane ones. No need to saturate.

< Message edited by Laeon val Observis -- 8/23/2021 7:13:04 >
DF AQW  Post #: 76
8/23/2021 18:18:35   
Guerra
Member

Happy to say I was able to get and maxout the Defender Ring and my shiny new Fateshovel (Golden Hand FashionFablers should be able to use that nicely) and am looking forward to getting that helmet. A thought crossed my mind though, are Lock and Key Exalted constructs? Their aesthetic seems to match, but I don't remeber if that was ever confirmed
DF  Post #: 77
8/23/2021 20:19:49   
Laeon val Observis
Member
 

It is implied, if you rerun/reread the Reactivation (Maleurous Saga, Myalos arc) cutscene.
quote:

Temblor: Containers of Exalted design, perhaps?


< Message edited by Laeon val Observis -- 8/23/2021 20:21:37 >
DF AQW  Post #: 78
8/24/2021 9:11:25   
Roxas45
Member

Mentally I've kinda lost interest in this war...
Like.
I want both sides to kinda tire themselves out and kinda just TALK it out.
Let us not take on the many waves and waves, and let the avatars and the Dragonoid and Notha just... run out of juice long enough that we have an impromptu therapy session for the whole involved party.

Then again. Thats just me.

Also.
I mentioned AQW fiamme before. I understand that the timelines are different but there the revelation was that you're not really a being of pure elemental energy like was mentioned, but rather... something a little more confusing.
I mean... different timelines is one thing, but this seems to be total shift between worlds and universes. More like the difference between MQ and DF than b/w DF and AQW.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 79
8/24/2021 17:54:49   
Vaalirus
Member

Finally got off work, time to shave down some waves.

Also 50% cutscene is wild. To know that the Firnament was just a closed space in the Void is interesting. I think we already knew it was kind of everywhere but to be even between the Elemental
Planes makes sense. And as anticipated, there are in fact Exlated ruins in Lhe'Shiyac. At some point someone's going to have put together a diagram of how all the Planes/the Void/Lore are interwoven together. This also begs the question though that if the Exalted traversed the Void as well could they have potentially left something behind in there when their civilization nuked itself? The Void is infinite and lots of stuff just gets tossed or lost in there so I'm curious. Although, I do also wonder if even the Void itself was too dangerous for even them and thus they only used it as a quick means of travel before they got to their destination similary to how elemental spirits travel instantly from the POES to Lore.

As for Celestials being entities of Destiny and Infernals being entities of Doom. Does this mean that Light and Darkness (Well the kind of Darkness the Shadowscythe desire) are, by technicality, the elements most alike to what the Celestials and Internals are in concept? As for the image of the elements and celestials and infernals that Notha shows us, we've seen it multiple times before though this time it's missing the yinyang imagery, but a thought that never crossed my mind until now was the placing of where the heads of the Celestials and Infernals are located. They are placed adjacent and around three elements in particular, technically four but for now I'm not counting light and darkness, while I'm probably wrong I do wonder if again much like my light and darkness similarity idea that these elements on some level share a concept with whichever heads they are the closest to in the image.


Also when were the Avatars influenced by Doom? Was it when Sinnocence started poking around? Or was it all the way back when SMUDD started making the cosmos fifty shades darker?

Lastly, can't wait to find out what Notha scanned from Draco but I bet it's IE related.

@ Zeebuoy
quote:

couple questions, who's Lumina and Sans I haven't caught up with the other stories yet

Braytes San was a priest in Lhe'Shiyac that was obsessed with the light and in contrast an outright hatred for the darkness. Eventually, in his obsession, he attempted to bring Lore closer to the sun to to put it in age of illumination and enlightenment but was stopped by Uaanta. She tells you this when you first meet and a little bit more when you're both talking in the Inn when she's telling you her background.

As for Illumina, her story is bit long to summarize in a single thread, but you can read about it in Falconreach's Libraseum in the book titled: Illumina's Spear. The general gist of it though is that she was
kind of a paladin on steroids in the Land of Dragons that was favored by Celeritas and fought the forces a darkness, namely a Lich.

You can fight both these characters in the Inn at the Edge of Time.

quote:

also the beam seems to be hitting her stilll, since it doesn't go past her.


I personally took that as the fact that when you blind enemies their attacks do technically do hit your character model you don't really react that much if it all in some cases, but who knows maybe she was able to render herself invulnerable for a few turns :P



quote:

A thought crossed my mind though, are Lock and Key Exalted constructs? Their aesthetic seems to match, but I don't remeber if that was ever confirmed


Like Laeon said the implication that they are of Exalted design is there although I think it was pretty much confirmed that they were Exalted containers given that we see Notha pull pretty much all that Exalted gear out of golden box that looks a lot like Key's head and given how much she was able to pull out of that single box alone...

@Roxas45

It's important to remember that pretty much none of the games, within exception of MQ and DF due to MQ being DF's technical past, share overall worldbuilding and lore with each other and that's been the case for a long time now. The Celestials and Infernal in AQW are not even remotely similar to the Exalted, the concept of Chaos doesn't exist in DF. That should kind of been clear by the fact that AQW is technically mismatch of all three game's timeline but that only means characters and places might exist simultaneously on the same field but the lore reason for why they exist the way they do will never be the same as say other timelines that don't deal with that issue. In some ways it's almost, if not more, convoluted as Fate.

DF  Post #: 80
8/24/2021 21:10:18   
  Stephen Nix

Undead Penguinmancer DragonFable


Penguin Hour RIGHT NOW, where your kills will belong to me!!!

Or we fight together and stuff.

Edit: Thus concludes the hour, thank you for your....help.

MUAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHA*coughs*

< Message edited by Stephen Nix -- 8/24/2021 23:02:25 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 81
8/25/2021 8:28:47   
Flabagast
Member

Shoot! Missed Penguin Hour.

I think I'm ready to ramble about this a bit now.


quote:

This also begs the question though that if the Exalted traversed the Void as well could they have potentially left something behind in there when their civilization nuked itself?

I've been wondering this myself. It also makes me wonder if the weapon itself may have played a role sending some of Ehr'Ishin to Lore, via literally punching a hole in reality and sending it through time and space. It may sound a little ridiculous, but we have seen traversal between planes being used as a method of time travel (the Riorr Saga, namely)... and it does prevent my theory - that the Exalted's war occurred before Lore's conception - from falling apart completely. >.>

quote:

Also when were the Avatars influenced by Doom?

...I don't think that Uaanta meant that the Avatars were literally infected by Doom. When Notha talks about "Doom" I don't think she's specifically talking about the power of the Shadowscythe. I think she's using it as more of a label of what the Avatars don't understand and therefore think is evil. From her perspective, Doom is a metaphor of personal growth, as she talks about how it granted Lock and Key life, how it made Myalos "whole" and how it is part of the "balance of the Exalted". But of course there are other, dare I say less dangerous ways to grow and learn. And that's what the Avatars are beginning to do.

quote:

I want both sides to kinda tire themselves out and kinda just TALK it out.
Let us not take on the many waves and waves, and let the avatars and the Dragonoid and Notha just... run out of juice long enough that we have an impromptu therapy session for the whole involved party.

Now wouldn't that be nice? :D
Notha's judgement is far too clouded by her personal grievance against the Avatars to let up her assault, and I doubt that the Avatars would be willing to be diplomatic after such an intrusion. Notha may have basically said "well they probably wouldn't even let me speak anyway!" but I suppose she's not entirely wrong. :P
Edit:Gah I forgot to put this here, so much to talk about! The only way I can see this war resolving itself without either party being outright annihilated is by Uaanta and the Hero somehow boarding the Dragonoid to confront Notha and Myalos (and Remthalas I guess???) directly. I really can't see how that might pan out though. Notha and Myalos may admit defeat after some... persuasion from the heroes, but I doubt Remthalas would be so quick to yield...

Also - this might be jumping the gun a bit here - but I can't help but wonder how Warlic's backstory fits into all of this. He and his father were Infernals themselves after all, although quite different from any of the Infernals we encounter in the Exaltia Tower; namely their alignment to fire. It makes me think that all that occurred well before Infernals and Celestials formed their Alliance and began fighting their creators. As I recall, there is a reference to what used to be temples of the elements in The Last Stand of Ehr'Ishin. Maybe before the Exalted Alliance, there were different factions of Infernals that specialised in magic of each of the Elements? Perhaps this was the same for the Celestials?

In any case, there's clearly still a lot we don't know. I hope we get to learn more about the Exalted and their history.

Boy is it nice to be free from spoiler tags while talking about this stuff :P

< Message edited by Flabagast -- 8/27/2021 22:16:44 >
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 82
8/25/2021 19:14:01   
Sirix
Member

So we've hit 75%... But clicking on the quest gives me an error then logs me out of the game.
EDIT: Working now!

< Message edited by Sirix -- 8/25/2021 19:19:35 >
DF  Post #: 83
8/27/2021 0:21:22   
Roxas45
Member

quote:

Now wouldn't that be nice? :D
Notha's judgement is far too clouded by her personal grievance against the Avatars to let up her assault, and I doubt that the Avatars would be willing to be diplomatic after such an intrusion. Notha may have basically said "well they probably wouldn't even let me speak anyway!" but I suppose she's not entirely wrong. :P


I was thinking along the lines of "They beat each other into a bloody pulp, and then have no energy, or any other choice but to sit there and listen."

Also. Is this the first time the pipeline minigame from BioShock is making an appearance in a WAR? I know that it had some minor appearance in the Thunder Orb saga or something, but my memory is hazy at best.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 84
8/27/2021 5:32:55   
Vaalirus
Member

quote:

It also makes me wonder if the weapon itself may have played a role sending some of Ehr'Ishin to Lore, via literally punching a hole in reality and sending it through time and space. It may sound a little ridiculous, but we have seen traversal between planes being used as a method of time travel (the Riorr Saga, namely)... and it does prevent my theory - that the Exalted's war occurred before Lore's conception - from falling apart completely. >.>


Hmm I wonder if it's possible if instead of the weapon punching a hole in reality, well technically still would have with my current thought process but less of the Void being a bit more "directly" opened, Ehr'Ishin was not only on the Elemental Plains but also was to some degree built with the Void interwoven within it. When the Exalted artillery did fire, the huge amount mana that was amassed didn't just level the city, and the Plains, but also caused essentially whatever parts of Ehr'Ishin that could have been integrally tied to the Void to split off into it and more ruins finding their way to Lore, to Lhe'Shiyac, as they drifted through the Void and time.

The other alternative of course is that the Exalted remains were left there when Lore was still new and when the weapon fired they were simply cut off from Ehr'Ishin and the Plains kryptonian style.


quote:

When Notha talks about "Doom" I don't think she's specifically talking about the power of the Shadowscythe. I think she's using it as more of a label of what the Avatars don't understand and therefore think is evil. From her perspective, Doom is a metaphor of personal growth, as she talks about how it granted Lock and Key life, how it made Myalos "whole" and how it is part of the "balance of the Exalted". But of course there are other, dare I say less dangerous ways to grow and learn. And that's what the Avatars are beginning to do.


Yeah that makes sense

quote:

but I doubt Remthalas would be so quick to yield...


Considering he seems deadset on people experiencing the dreams and freedom (not to mention he's made it clear that he wants to change reality itself) I doubt he'd give up. Chances are if Notha tries to yield he'll attempt to put her down like he did Mr. Nameless and either try and control Myalos, assuming he even can, to pull off his own plans for 'change'



quote:

but I can't help but wonder how Warlic's backstory fits into all of this. He and his father were Infernals themselves after all, although quite different from any of the Infernals we encounter in the Exaltia Tower; namely their alignment to fire. It makes me think that all that occurred well before Infernals and Celestials formed their Alliance and began fighting their creators. As I recall, there is a reference to what used to be temples of the elements in The Last Stand of Ehr'Ishin. Maybe before the Exalted Alliance, there were different factions of Infernals that specialised in magic of each of the Elements? Perhaps this was the same for the Celestials?


The Last Stand did indeed mention former temples of the Elements. Given Wargoth's affinity for the element of fire I would say that it is a safe bet that there were Celestials and Infernals that aligned themselves to an element whether by birth or choice. Although it's hard to tell given that Wargoth sr. and Warlic are our only examples of this and the only Celestial we've encountered iirc (Love is still only theorized if I'm not mistaken) was Caeternam and he did not appear to be aligned to any element. Though he does tell us that he fought alongside the Elements so perhaps it is possible some Celestials or Infernals could have found an incentive to specialize in an element.



quote:

Also. Is this the first time the pipeline minigame from BioShock is making an appearance in a WAR? I know that it had some minor appearance in the Thunder Orb saga or something, but my memory is hazy at best.


Last time we did this was during Lock's and Key's Malerous quest during the Archive E-189-L war.
DF  Post #: 85
8/27/2021 15:08:54   
Shadow_Knight41
Member
 

May the Avatars have mercy, she's sending nukes!!
I liked defusing bombs, it's a good alternative for low level heroes OR like me, people with slower computers. I only realized this now because I was on a faster device temporarily at the start of the war but the DDR wave seems to be laggier than usual waves. Defusing takes 22-23 seconds for me (that is, if I finish laying pipes before red line crosses first tile) is the best alternative. One thing to note is that chain waves don't work for Bomb Defusing, was that intentional,since it's not really a "wave"?

quote:

Also when were the Avatars influenced by Doom? Was it when Sinnocence started poking around? Or was it all the way back when SMUDD started making the cosmos fifty shades darker?

I'm confused about that too, but it seems like Hero refers to their recent change of thinking style and eh, weren't we responsible for that? I must be missing something. I can't ground it in but I think it's because of their nature. Notha said they are beings of Order (Destiny, Good etc.), and if they can't self-balance like humans, that makes them susceptible to balancing by force, that is, infection. I wonder if there are beings of Chaos (of Doom, Evil) that are susceptible to Destiny infection...

By the way, do we know how Avatars captured the Maleurous? They keep talking about a vessel, an artifact, yet we don't know what it is or how Valtrith achieved them.
DF  Post #: 86
8/27/2021 18:48:57   
Guerra
Member

quote:


I wonder if there are beings of Chaos (of Doom, Evil) that are susceptible to Destiny infection...


If I remember correctly, I think Lock and Key were infected by a destiny infection during and leading up to the Archive E-189-L war. The boss at the end, as well as enemies you fought throughout the war with some exceptions (did we ever figure out what the Lefovers were?) did Good damage. In this and other ways Myalos and Lock and Key are mirrors of each other.
DF  Post #: 87
8/27/2021 20:52:33   
Laeon val Observis
Member
 

Either that, or this whole "doom" and "destiny" that came out recently is just a matter of syntax difficulties. After all, it isn't unusual for stuff to be lost in translation in between languages (why only few anime dubbed in EN actually do it right in modern times, apart from altering character personalities) or in between interaction of two different races. That's why I've always preferred Warlic's simple description of celestials and infernals in the Thorns Saga, being that they are entities of order and chaos, respectively. Order that keeps things from going too wild, and chaos that keeps things interesting.

Still not looking nice of the war progression though. Either this is going to be a similar yet slightly brutal ending compared to if we win (when's the deadline anyway?) or this is gonna be a bad end altogether. Thinking of it in the same way FSN splits route endings into true, normal, and bad ends. On the other hand, the previews of the reimagined GT set definitely catches my eye, and the Astravian set is a nice addition to collection.
DF AQW  Post #: 88
8/27/2021 22:31:01   
Flabagast
Member

@Laeon val Observis
I don't think there is a deadline. I'm pretty sure there's only one intended ending, as is the case for most wars. And to be honest I'm glad; I'd hate to think of might happen if we were to lose.

quote:

The Last Stand did indeed mention former temples of the Elements. Given Wargoth's affinity for the element of fire I would say that it is a safe bet that there were Celestials and Infernals that aligned themselves to an element whether by birth or choice. Although it's hard to tell given that Wargoth sr. and Warlic are our only examples of this and the only Celestial we've encountered iirc (Love is still only theorized if I'm not mistaken) was Caeternam and he did not appear to be aligned to any element. Though he does tell us that he fought alongside the Elements so perhaps it is possible some Celestials or Infernals could have found an incentive to specialize in an element.

I hadn't considered that. It would be an effective strategy for some to take up elemental powers to better combat their elemental enemies. And we know that the Exalted reprogrammed and created their own Elemental warbeasts, as Isathaara is one of them. And I think Caeternam is an Infernal, based on the colour scheme of his weapon and that Warlic said there weren't any Celestials left on Lore.
I don't know about Love though. I think they might be a different ball game entirely.


Aaaaaand BAM! This war is DONE! It's been a pleasure as always, warmongers!

< Message edited by Flabagast -- 8/29/2021 13:02:12 >
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 89
8/29/2021 17:18:45   
Laeon val Observis
Member
 

Looks like we dodged the bullet this time. With the hint of a choice making, would this be the hint of something that is similar to the choice mechanism used in AQW's Etherstorm war? That is, your first choice will lock you till all eternity (For those who don't understand, when you defeat Desoloth the Final and engage the finale cutscene for the first time, part of that has a choice system that will affect your dialogues with Etherstorm's NPCs up to that point irrevocably. So, yes, better think this through instead of just being a simpathizer), which is of course a nice way to experiment how it will be implemented once FW becomes available in the future. Not that it's going to sway me that easy. I'll be prepped to land a punch through that sociopath's smug face (now I'm starting to hear that leitmotif when Akatsuki Kojou is about to beat the latest arc villain) to shatter her perspectives and let her see what she is clearly denying in our conversations in Respite.

< Message edited by Laeon val Observis -- 8/29/2021 17:25:48 >
DF AQW  Post #: 90
8/29/2021 17:24:43   
Vaalirus
Member

War completed can't wait to see what happens with Notha, Myalos, and the Avatars


quote:

And I think Caeternam is an Infernal, based on the colour scheme of his weapon and that Warlic said there weren't any Celestials left on Lore.


Pretty sure Caeternam is a Celestial based on his body design. His wing design is pretty much identical to the Celestial Samaranth. His body color appears to be tan much like both Samaranth and Ezrajal and he keeps his eyes covered with a cloth. All of that including his outfit's white and gold colors, as opposed to the black and gold of the normal, in terms of being up the ladder, Infernals of Yaphael and Mahanaem, and his horns forming a ring would indicate him being a Celestial. Also Warlic said that there weren't any Celestials on Lore that he heard of but I don't believe Caeternam would have any reason to have his existence or whereabouts made known since he had to keep Isathaara location hidden, the first time around anyway.


DF  Post #: 91
8/30/2021 3:08:03   
SeigusDarkon
Member

I post a suggestion for a new mechanic to make the game easier and more fun to play

suggestion gets immediately implemented and makes the game better for everyone

This is why I love AE, and especially Verly and Dove.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 92
8/30/2021 4:19:16   
Zeebuoy
Member
 

^

neat
quote:

but it seems like Hero refers to their recent change of thinking style and eh, weren't we responsible for that?
@shadow_knight41 sorta, responsible for inciting it, and stuff like let Lock and Key stay, which also allows for them to change more, like that bit where lock (or was it key) kinda reminding them to not treat people like tools when the avatars mentioned how the religion that Notha's people believed in, was good for controlling the population

Merged. Please do not double post. ~Master Samak

< Message edited by Master Samak -- 8/31/2021 19:44:07 >
Post #: 93
8/30/2021 20:27:18   
Vaalirus
Member


spoiler:


Huh so Remthalas was going to betray Notha one way or the other


In the ending where where we side with Uaanta:

The avatars are stuck in their little orbs which I didn't think about it but does make sense not just based on what they are in comparison to other elementals but also the fact that elemetnals upon being defeated on Lore are sent back to to their respective planes when they can no longer hold their forms, a return to an original state if you will. Much like in a similar case the Avatars are forced back to their most basic state possible until they can remerge again.

Myalos lay broken but fixable, glad they weren't destroyed.

And much like Voyna, I'm glad there is an outcome where Notha doesn't have to die

Speaking of which I wonder what will to each Avatar's elemental plane, now that we know they were struggling to keep them on lockdown with the state of the Elemental Plains and the Wastes.

Also curious that we ended up in the Deadlands of all places, hopefully the stuff we left behind isn't used against us later...oh who am I kidding of course it will


Also in the siding with Notha ending did Uaanta achieve elemental unity just then? Because that'd be awesome if true since canonically we haven't undergone that state. Also makes sense as to why she was shrouded in Darkness as she tells us they have an affinity for the element.


The boss fights with Uaanta and Notha were so well done too from the music to the battle mechanics. The devs have outdone themselves once again, beautifully done



The ultimate ending here seems to determine whoever you side with outlook on the world and how Lhe'Shiyac might look politically when we next see it


And Remthalas as expected will be the last Malerous we deal with
DF  Post #: 94
8/30/2021 21:11:37   
Laeon val Observis
Member
 

Well, that is quite a finale. Pretty much explains why the Avatars/Makers didn't participate in the outbreak of Proclamation portals later on in the timeline.
spoiler:

The "destiny" end went within my predictions. Sorry, Notha. No matter how much I pride myself in normally not Adventure moding bosses, your behavior is such that that it breaks my combat code of conduct. Even then, you'd barely dent my techniques had I stuck a little bit more to my principles.

The "doom" end, on the other hand... I don't know. It feels... forced, to say the least, considering how sturdy the Hero's and Uaanta's resolve are at this point. Even if Remthalas made a convincing simulacrum of Uaanta in the past, you really can't judge a book by its cover. Definitely a while since I had to use Pirate no Jutsu to shortcut this route so that it's efficiently dealt with in my standards.

Looking forward to our talks with the other surviving Maleurous.


As for the rewards, Finally earned the helm I sought. For the trinkets, I'll be off testing them, but I feel like they'll be a nice kit for various builds.

EDIT: Batted the test dummy just to see how the new UBs fare. The blinder (Destiny) is a lite version of Bubbles (5/9, -30 to BtH), but at least it damages and provides more stats. The anti-armor (Doom) has its uses to even the odds against foes approaching Dragonbond sniping requirements.

@above
spoiler:

I don't think that what UE Uaanta underwent was a simple Unity. Our non-canonical UE had us tap into the power of the original 8 orbs (in a momentary burst), while she tapped into the core of the Avatars'/Makers' themselves. Even though they are inert right now, it won't be surprising if they had some degree of influence to their medium instead of just merely a simple channeling of potent elemental energies.


< Message edited by Laeon val Observis -- 8/30/2021 23:31:25 >
DF AQW  Post #: 95
8/31/2021 0:07:42   
Roxas45
Member

I took the destiny option when presented first - I felt that once the fight was over, that was IT. Nothing further was needed.
And mother of god, what an ending.
I'm hoping that we do see the return of the avatars in our character's lifetime.
And we see more tie ins with MQ as well.

Notha - Glad we didnt have to destroy her.

And remthalas - Dude needs to meet Kathool. I wonder who would win. Seriously.

I'm not sure what is a "canon" ending in all this, but personally I see it as the destiny one. I dont see why the hero would CHOOSE more destruction after the total destruction of the firmament, and in his own words, "we're lucky to not be floating in the void at the moment".

As for the doom storyline - Theres that bitter sweet moment where Uantaa and Notha can relate to one another. But I think thats a misinterpretation on their parts, coming from their upbringing.
Chaos (My character) comes from the land of Dragons - Where they call them "Avatars".
Uantaa and Notha come from the Faceless empire - Where they call them "Makers".
An important distinction between the two in how they view the rulers (for lack of a non generic term that isnt "avatar" or "maker") with far more reverence and benevolence, while the heroes on this side of the ocean have seen what the Avatars have wrought, been incapable of stopping, and were outright negligent in dealing with - There is no faith in that aspect, rather a will to do things on their own. I mean, how many times has Falconreach alone been rebuilt now? Not to mention with anti magic sentiments on the rise, Jaania and the Rose would chain the avatars themselves if they had enough metal to forge them.

Their "break" or the loss of faith is well written and well executed. I like that.
But I also consider the destiny ending canon.


Now.. Regardless of the choice.
Lock and Key being the guardians of the Avatars.
Well... This is going to be....
Its going to come back and bite us isnt it?

Also. How much of the memories will remain? I know they're dormant in that state, but will it be like a Groot situation or something? (Canonically, Groot does die in guardians of the galaxy, but the sapling later on is his "son", with no memories of the past self).
Cos if memories are remaining, some of them would be understandably furious or maladapted.

Either way.
Loved the release.
Kinda wish that there were a few better rewards since I dont really use the blaster, or use cosmetics.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 96
8/31/2021 1:38:29   
AstralCodex
Member

The ending was really worth the wait. As people have said above, it really neatly explains why the Avatars aren't helping during the proclamation war. (Though it raises the question of why we didn't, you know, tell anyone about this, or why no one wonders why no Avatars appear.)

The music was epic along both paths, and the animations of both Notha and Uaanta are truly impressive.

I especially liked how Notha has the Engineer's G/E beam and Uaanta cycled between all elements.

Also, the new Uaanta's Blaster (Doom) is now the BiS offensive trinket in terms of stats, and it isn't even close. (Ignoring the funny rare Wishbones.) Blaster (Destiny)'s stats are not as good, but of all the Blasters has probably the best special, good for stacking with small shields or blinds.

Thanks again to the developers for taking their time to really make a worthy finale.
DF  Post #: 97
8/31/2021 3:40:37   
Dratomos
Helpful!


Wow what a finale. It was worth the waith and an amazing conclusion to this war. And I'm glad this saga isn't over yet. I really hope we will see Maleurous board in the Arena some time in the future. And that Doom trinket from Uaanta? Hello new BiS offensive trinket.

quote:

Though it raises the question of why we didn't, you know, tell anyone about this, or why no one wonders why no Avatars appear.


I mean, what would we tell them? :D

"Hi guys, you know the Avatars exist, right? The ones who attacked us 5-6 years ago because of Nythera and almost destroyed Falconreach? Well, they are not coming to help us with the Proclamation rifts. Like they didn't come to help us with Seppy or Mysterious Stranger or Caitiff... but this time it's different! Now they can't come to help us because they are orbs. Long story. Before they just didn't want to help I guess...? I don't know. Bottom line, Avatars won't come to help us. That may not be news to you since you haven't seen them in a long time nor did you ask but now you know. So... yeah."

< Message edited by Dratomos -- 8/31/2021 3:41:13 >
DF  Post #: 98
8/31/2021 3:43:36   
SeigusDarkon
Member

spoiler:

Welp, Notha didn't die. Guess I need to prep for her inevitable return. Those Avatars will not perish so long as I stand. They deserve the right to choose their own individual destinies for once. I hope the devs give serious consideration to bringing them back during our character's lifetime, hopefully this chapter or the next, as mortals. Perhaps this would be under instructions from Lock and Key, who believe the Avatars could benefit from seeing what its like being a mortal so they can understand us better and apply that experience to their new roles as guardians and protectors of the Balance. I'd love to see them live like us, learn what its like being one of us, the good and the bad, and ultimately return to their position as Lore's guardian godhead with a new sense of perspective. It would be cool to hang out with them, befriend them, and teach them about how to be a mortal (drinks in the Inn are on me!). Having them become Guardians of the Balance instead of slaves of Destiny would go a long way to making Lore feel more immersive. Very few fantasy settings I've been in didn't have some form of patron deities you could swear loyalty to and receive boons in return. Plus as I mentioned previously, I really just want the Avatars to become their own individual characters that our characters can interact with, develop a relationship with, and help.

I understand there may be issues with this considering the devs gave us a choice of two different endings, and branching storylines are something that the devs have historically shied away from due to the difficulty involved in managing two seperate, branching stories, but I'm hoping they will at least choose the Destiny ending as the canon and just write one story for that side, leaving the Doom side alone, or go the extra mile to give the Doom side an alternate story, perhaps involving Notha and dealing with some kind of fallout of the Avatar's destruction. They wouldn't even have to be released simultaneously either. They could be staggered in their release patterns so that the devs only have to work on one at a time. I know player choice doubles the workload, but the payoff is worth it, because it increases player investment in the story by a proportional amount, increasing the likelihood we'll spend our hard-earned money on buying cool new drip, gear, or classes. It also just gives you more excuses to make more cool ingame items to sell. Just saying :P.

Ofc there is the third, most undesirable choice they could make: ignore this entire storyline and its consequences from here forward and give us no satisfying follow-up storyline for either side. I desperately hope they don't do this, not with something as important as Lore's resident pantheon having taken a fall (regardless of player choice) here. That's an event that has far too wide-reaching a scope and scale to just be shoved under the rug and forgotten, and I really hope that the devs opt to go full-bore with this and treat both outcomes with the respect and care the fans on each respective side deserve. I'd love to see the Avatars return as a force for balance for the Destiny route, and would be genuinely interested in seeing how the Doom side turns out.

I don't expect this to show up right away, but I will be waiting eagerly for news of the follow-up/sequel storylines for this, ideally with 8 new friends to be made! I can imagine The New Firmament becoming another location accessible from the Travel Map in Book 4 (or Book 5) and you having the ability to speak with your chosen Patron (after completing their short loyalty quests or questline) to access shops full of cool elemental weapons and armor/items, maybe even some kind of Shaman/Elementalist class for Dcs? Pretty please? :P Give me a reason to play devs! Make me more invested in DF than I already am!

As for the Doom side, I imagine Notha might become the vendor for items and gear on that side, unlocking the secrets of the Exalted and spreading the knowledge everywhere, with the questline revolving around using that knowledge and power to keep those who abuse it to rule, enslave, or harm others in check. I imagine it would be a constant battle with would-be petty tyrants popping up everywhere to use this incredible knowledge and tech to fulfill their animalistic impulses to dominate and rule. It would certainly be chaotic that's for sure. Great technological leaps always are, and without the new, more moderate Avatars to help and guide humans in the safe and responsible use of this immense power and technology, and with Notha's zeal for spreading "enlightenment", such technology would easily find its way into the "wrong hands" and chaos would inevitably result. Notha and the Hero would have their work cut out for them maintaining Balance in the absence of the Avatars. Its like in Bruce Almighty, when God takes a vacation and Bruce quickly figures out that being God ain't so peachy.


Regardless of my hopes for the future of this storyline, This was a well-put together, thematically entrancing, emotionally engaging storyline and war. The finale music composition was amazing, some of the best in Dragonfable, which is saying a lot. I beat my previous record of 666 waves (during the immediate post-Serenity war I believe) and did 777 waves this time, which was my goal. I haven't been this invested in a DF war since the one after Serenity's death, and that's saying something. Putting down Caitiff was comparable only to the ends of Book 1 and 2 for engagement in my mind, and now this war and its conclusion have joined that three-way tie making it a 4-way contest. Brilliantly done, thoroughly enjoyable, and I sincerely hope to see more. Keep it up, you guys are amazing!

quote:

And remthalas - Dude needs to meet Kathool. I wonder who would win. Seriously.


Judging by the Kathool bossfight in the Inn (which I believe is intended to be a simulacrum of Kathool at his peak) I suspect the old Sneezer (Katchoo hehe) would win. Its a bit like who would win, Cthulhu or one of his high priests gone rogue? Then again, anything is possible.

quote:

"Hi guys, you know the Avatars exist, right? The ones who attacked us 5-6 years ago because of Nythera and almost destroyed Falconreach? Well, they are not coming to help us with the Proclamation rifts. Like they didn't come to help us with Seppy or Mysterious Stranger or Caitiff... but this time it's different! Now they can't come to help us because they are orbs. Long story. Before they just didn't want to help I guess...? I don't know. Bottom line, Avatars won't come to help us. That may not be news to you since you haven't seen them in a long time nor did you ask but now you know. So... yeah."


Its like I said before, the Avatars are a remarkably hands-off pantheon. They didn't stop Seppy though because those events were out of their hands. The events had to unfold according to Prophecy, and nothing in the prophecy indicated direct Avatar intervention against Sepulchure or the SMUDD. I'm pretty sure with the way that Destiny works, the Avatars COULDN'T have intervened even if they WANTED to. Caitiff I'm sure was something they believed we mortals had "well in hand" despite how it may have appeared to us and our poor dragon. That may have been a mistake on their part, but then again, you could just as easily criticize them for being "heavy-handed" if they DID intervene...

Also, I look forward to the Avatars showing up in the Inn at the End of Time as challenges! Even if it doesn't happen, Im gunna keep hoping for it!

< Message edited by SeigusDarkon -- 8/31/2021 6:49:47 >
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 99
8/31/2021 4:04:08   
Shadow_Knight41
Member
 

Masterpiece, full stop. I just want to thank and hug the DF Team!
spoiler:


Uaanta's Side: This was my initial playthrough, as much as I wanted to be on Notha's side, I couldn't betray our old ladybones haha. The fight was neat, although Notha seemed a little weak (for full set DK at least) and every blow I landed hurt my heart :( I can understand how Notha wanted to destroy them, she was so close and if they were to return, all of this would be in vain. But what she did... As the Hero said, it could be a true catastrophe, I for one expected them to blow up and cause significant damage once they were dead, but turning into harmless little orbs is much more convenient.

Notha's Side: This one was... idk, harnessing the powers of the Avatars?! That was crazy! The fight with Uaanta (too) was easy, but when she changed her element I was shocked, I honestly didn't expect she to change the appearance for EVERY element, hats off to the team.
Also, did Notha deter Remthalas? That's a relief. Boy, he gives me creeps, the idea that he could defeat our Notha disturbs me...

If I remember correctly, I think Lock and Key were infected by a destiny infection during and leading up to the Archive E-189-L war.
If this is true, then is it possible for Avatars and Lock&Key to balance each other? Maybe they merge or something.
It's scary how much we trust those two, we practically gave them a power to control the Lore.

quote:

the new Uaanta's Blaster (Doom) is now the BiS offensive trinket in terms of stats

quote:

do note that there are plenty of BiS gear scattered around the game already alongside situational/suboptimal and mundane ones.

What does BiS stand for by the way?


Back then I missed many wars since I was a child and all (I regret not playing when the Black Winter was on), but now, actively participating in such an interesting war, waiting for updates, reading the forums, and getting an amazing ending... It is great, a big THANK YOU for creating and updating this game for over a decade

EDIT: *note to self* Colors don't go well with spoiler tags...

< Message edited by Shadow_Knight41 -- 8/31/2021 4:05:04 >
DF  Post #: 100
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