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RE: =AQ= Necromancer Class Skills 16-20, Back To School Daily Prizes and more

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9/5/2021 14:39:00   
J9408
Member

quote:

For example, a status nuke? It could inflict a massive fear, burn, bleed on the enemy all at the same time. This would synergize with the innate potency boost and work in tandem with the other skills/guests.


That sounds great! Status conditions are way more fun to play with.
Post #: 26
9/5/2021 15:13:42   
RobynJoanne
Member
 

 @Cupcake
Undead Giant-It feels like it's there purely to pay homage to the old Necromancer and to throw warriors a bone. I think that it's the worst of both worlds. It's insufficient to make Necromancer worth using for warriors, and it's a skill that takes away from the beastmaster and mage aspects of Necromancer.

Anima Ward and Aggressive Anima Ward-They're both passives, so they'll inevitably be fairly weak. If they were toggles, they would definitely be much better, but it doesn't bother me too much. Necromancer already chugs through SP like nothing with all of its toggles.

Anima Manifestation-It's just bad timing. We would have celebrated a compressed Harm guest just two weeks ago. My main issue with it is that it's hard to stack so many status effects without the help of pets and guests, and Anima Manifestation does not help at all with stacking status effects.

Spellcaster Lean-I have an issue with the double elecomp that Necromancer's spells get. They're far more powerful than basically anything else in the game. Outside my reservations with Necromancer's nuking prowess, I agree that ice feels out of place. It seems like it's there purely because Deathwalker and Necromancer use the same Spellcaster Lean. I'm pretty sure this is a bug, but when I enter a new battle with Spellcaster Lean, I revert to a hybrid of Neutral and Spellcaster Lean. My weapon attacks and damage taken revert to 1x like Neutral Lean, but I still gain extra elecomp on spells like Spellcaster Lean. The elecomp is weaker than in the original Spellcaster Lean. Essentially, I gain all the benefits of neutral lean with added spell damage on top.

Summon Legion-Ironically, practically the only time I reach low health in Necro is when using Deathwalker, which cannot use Undead Legion. The status nuke idea would be great. Summon Legion could also be a multiple status eater, but the class may have too many eat skills if so.

Post #: 27
9/5/2021 16:47:30   
Zennistrad
Member

quote:

Summon Legion – Whilst extremely powerful, it simply competes with the other skills and doesn’t stand out at all. Moreover, the damage boost it receives goes against the entirety of Necro’s arsenal. With fear, regen, and barriers at Necro’s disposal, it’s highly unlikely you will reach the low HP necessary to really take advantage of the damage boost.


Much like Deathwalker, it would seem to me that this skill is mainly meant as a contingency plan in case things go south.

quote:

What weaknesses do this class have? I know one of it is Paladin enemies but they are not common.


Necro is incredibly powerful, but one thing it is absolutely crippled by is any enemy that can inflict Mindlock status or otherwise disable spellcasting. Enemies with high magic defense will also likely be an annoyance.

I strongly suspect we're going to be seeing more enemies that are specifically magic resistant in coming updates, especially with Archmage coming out in 2022
AQ  Post #: 28
9/5/2021 16:50:07   
Cupquake
Member

quote:

Much like Deathwalker, it would seem to me that this skill is mainly meant as a contingency plan in case things go south.


Except for the fact it requires a turn to charge up. Not really a contingency plan if you ask me. It needs to be something more than just a basic nuke.
Post #: 29
9/5/2021 17:03:31   
CH4OT1C!
Member

Undead giant really doesn't work well even for warriors. At best, you'll be using it in Neutral lean, which will hamper vs skills in FO armours. Since it follows weapon element, you also lose the benefit of any elecomp you may have gotten. Whilst the additional cost does somewhat help, it really isn't enough and works to the detriment of the other skills. A potential solution is to tag it as a "pet" or "guest" attack and have it scale on charisma, so it avoids the lean issues and can be useful as a nuke for beastmasters.

The unique HP scaling effect on Undead Legion is interesting, but at odds with most of Necromancer's other abilities.

AQ  Post #: 30
9/5/2021 17:19:26   
Zennistrad
Member

quote:

Except for the fact it requires a turn to charge up.


I don't think that the turn spent charging is relevant; the best way to make use of this skill is to spend MP charging it at the start of every combat. Since the charge is quick-cast, this won't be anything more than a minor inconvenience since Necro has plenty of ways to earn back the MP you spend on it
AQ  Post #: 31
9/6/2021 1:27:31   
Neros the 13th
Member

This is SO much fun. I love dual-wielding dracoliches! Burn baby burn!
Post #: 32
9/6/2021 10:13:31   
Sapphire
Member

Dual dracolichs slow my FPS too much ;-(

I would love a bleed misc in a revamped Necromancer shop....
Post #: 33
9/6/2021 11:16:06   
Zennistrad
Member

^That, or more Bleed pets.

Right now I think the only one is that rare porcelain rhino pet
AQ  Post #: 34
9/6/2021 11:46:13   
Kaizoku
Member

I love the class for the most part, but Undead Giant and the Legion really feel useless. I run tomes and wands so I can't even use Undead Giant, and I don't see the point of Legion on such a defensive set-up.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 35
9/6/2021 11:53:33   
Zennistrad
Member

FWIW, I do think it's fairly likely we'll see a variant in the advanced armors that swaps out a spellcasting lean for a traditional Fully-Offensive lean, which would make Undead Giant far more powerful
AQ  Post #: 36
9/6/2021 12:09:08   
Cupquake
Member

quote:

Dual dracolichs slow my FPS too much ;-(


One is bad enough but two is even worse. Personally, I'm never going to use them because they're too laggy. Even when I fought them in the Haunted Dragon Lord quest they lagged.
Post #: 37
9/6/2021 14:07:49   
Sapphire
Member

@Zenn I happened to pick that pet up at the time,and it is very good here.

I also picked up the misc that uses END for stats and bleeds and paralyzes. It casts an earth spell,maybe does 100-150 damage if you have full END. So you get the anima barrier post cast...the bleed, and paralyze. Its pretty nice with an END build tbh

Which brings me to a bit of a small debate....


I heard someone elsewhere claim that a 250 INT/DEX/CHAR is the optimal build for Necromancer. I find this doesn't make any sense. I would think a luck based beastmage would be better than dex since so many status rolls use luck as a secondary. The anima barriers are the antithesis of blocking.

But I feel like the optimal build for this class is supposed to be 250 INT/CHAR/END.

1. All barriers and ele shields are more effective for dex-less characters, and this class is the most barrier ridden class to date. You get an anima barrier to start, and get a free skill that sucks MP and creates an ALL ele shield on yourself based on damage done. This isn't for 1 round. Its a few rounds. In limited testing, and against a monster with quite a bit of MP, I was able to get the ele shield down to around 16%. The built-in spell caster lean and darkness booster makes this CRAZY. You can't take advantage of this if you're blocking.

2. This class is a beastMage....but 80% of the abilities cost SP.
SP Abilities- Undead Giant, Fear, Raise skeleton guests, deathwalker charging, amplification (spells;pets/guests/both), mana quickening,deathless abomination

MP abilities- summon wraithwork guests, haunting spells, summon legion

Several free abilities and passives

So this class EATS SP. If there was ever a NEED to regen SP, THIS class is top dog on SP using stuff. You NEED more HP, to siphon off more SP via essence orb to optimize the class.

196 SP for dual amplification
505 for undead giant
360 for fear
two of the raise skeleton guests have increased SP upkeep cost
36 SP to charge deathwalker
2 of deathwalkers 3 skills use SP, the weakest being MP
deathless abomination 72 sp/turn to charge

So lets say you dont use SP based abilities, but still toggle on other SP stuff to charge . That's 304 without the guest SP which if 2.1 and 1.5 upkeep on two of them is beginning to push you into 450-500 SP per turn.
Twin summoning- deathless knight has a 169 SP toggle


Theoretically you can be pushing 650-700 SP per turn just *inside* the armor.....not even counting using actual skills....

So in order to counter the optimization of the armor, you need more SP regeneration and that comes in the form of...essence orb-> You need more HP..so a tank build might be a much more optimal build because you can siphon HP off to fuel all these SP costs, while keeping damage down using the barriers and rend mana skill.

In addition,
1. deathwalker uses END to fuel more MP
2. Mana quickening costs HP
3. Deathless Abomination uses INT/CHAR/and END for stats.


I feel like the class is meant to be Tanky... I see no instance where dext is needed here. But I get there are legions of players that think dex is a must.....irregardless
Post #: 38
9/6/2021 17:44:04   
Falsetto
Member

@Primate "The Dragonbone Phylactery seems like an interesting idea that was not very well implemented."
'Fear will halt the flow of power, fear frees the restless souls, inflict fear, it'll probably do something'. I inflicted fear. I got more messages about how the souls jimmies were rustled. It still uses the attack that inflicts harm and heals it's psuedo-20,000 health back to full. I see no way whatsoever to defeat this thing at level 150 and I really, really don't want to fight through the darkness tanks so that I can come back around to the darkness tank that heals itself back to full health every few rounds - just so I can see if inflicting the status does something this time.

Can someone give me a step 1 - x here so I can cut through the nonsense? I'd rather fight pre-nerf Ryn. I must be missing something? :/
AQ  Post #: 39
9/6/2021 19:28:49   
Kaizoku
Member

^
I simply used Necromancer Cloak to defeat the Phylactery. Set lean to FD. Activate Necromancer's Presence. Activate Pet/Guest amplification. Summoned Deathless Dracolich in both slots, set them to Burn, equipped Havarti Blade, Goggernaut Helm and Eclipsed Dragonlord Shield.
I kept the Dracoliches burning until the SP bar starts to glow, then called Underwyrmling in pet slot to take care of the Phylactery's SP bar. I don't know what it uses the SP for. And finally, kept reapplying Fear on the boss, but I have no idea what difference it makes for the fight. He fell quickly enough once the Burn started stacking up hard. My build is 250 INT/END/CHA so I disregarded whatever damage he did since it didn't even take me halfway. For the second fight same strategy was used, along with some Destruction Bursting to speed up the process.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 40
9/6/2021 19:35:23   
lifetime dreamer
Member

What are some ideas for the use of spells with Necro? Not all the elements are covered by the class skill/summons. But at the same time you intend on using PCO I suppose we could make sure they are weak to Darkness or Ice. Maybe half summons with some Burst spells thrown in.
AQ  Post #: 41
9/6/2021 21:29:39   
RobynJoanne
Member
 

 @Falsetto
When you say pseudo-20000 health, do you mean its eleshield? The key is to attack with a lot of different elements, and only attack with powerful attacks. If you have them, 1-hit nukes are fantastic. Kindred could probably handle it with relative ease.

As Kaizoku said, keeping its SP low with Underwyrmling is a really great way to handle it. If it cannot use its SP attack, it will not heal. MRM stacking when its SP is high also works. You can even use the Dragonlord Shields to use HP shields to block its damage. Its heal is based on its damage, so it can't heal if it does zero overt damage. My alt didn't bring Necromancer or any other source of Fear, and it beat it twice in a row. The first time with HP Shield stacking and the second without.
Post #: 42
9/7/2021 11:30:29   
Sapphire
Member

@Lifetime dreamer..

To me, the necromancer's playstyle is going to be kind of a loop, in 2 ways.

First, and this is just my opinion, it is designed to have you have a lot of HP's so I ghink it's the first END using class. A few of it's skills either cost HP or even use END for stats...and since it eats SP for breakfast, lunch, dinner, and snacktime, you'll want the extra HP's to be able to siphon off more SP via essence orb.

However, build aside,
the loop I think consists of Grasp Essence as the staple. Darkness element focused...And using PCO to switch element to darkness.

You can either use the bleed toggle for spells, the bleed toggle for guests, or find other sources of bleed. Werepyre subrace has the strongest bleed skill in the game. 1 successful bleed from it's skill gets you power 1 bleed which is between 300-500 harm damage. This will significantly boost the Grasp Essence Unravel Blood for a likely full MP heal.

So basicly, Cast a couple of times, then Grasp Essence->Unravel blood, heal MP. Rinse, repeat. That loops in spellcaster lean is likely going to yield fantastic results

In addition, under Grasp essence, Rend Mana can get you a significant defensive boost. It can get sick. Against a 100% mod on a monster with 1300 MP, I got myself to a 10 round mod @0.0782%. As an END build, that damage becomes so low I can use my HP's to fuel my SP now.

The other loop is the fear and then Grasp Essence to heal if need be, but I think this is more helpful if one decides to not train END. You may benefit more from lower Hp's and monster's missed turns.

I am finding I dont use any guests and pets the armor has. Too expensive, and too many elements. I would find others. I use werepyre's bat swarm for ele vuln to darkness as well as the same-turn inflicting -10 defloss. This helps offet no dex and no luck for me. And I also use absolute darkness to give myself a darkness empowerment. These stacks enhance Necromancers spell caster lean, grasp essence abilities, as well as the nukes they have. That's what'd I'd recommend. But up to you.



Edit-> I am finding a 250 int/char/luck build is sick with Necromancer. Probably a bug, but with specific stacks, you will be unkillable.

< Message edited by SapphireCatalyst2021 -- 9/9/2021 15:38:47 >
Post #: 43
9/10/2021 6:42:19   
Kaizoku
Member

Should you really be able to sustain every single toggle and skill for the entire battle, though? Would the staff build an armor around spamming Essence Orb every turn when EO should be nerfed to begin with?
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 44
9/10/2021 7:59:51   
Sapphire
Member

Most likely not, but still doesn't take away from the main point that the class eats SP by crazy amounts. I have only been trying to only use certain things, and while it's not as bad, as I think the class has a lot of things not worth using as the "good" stuff outclasses other abilities within it, but I find it still eats SP a bit more than I'd like.

Post #: 45
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