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RE: AQClassic: Summer 2021 Season of Gifting Prizes Finale + Arms of Carnax + Z-infinity Gauntlets

 
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9/10/2021 15:38:16   
RobynJoanne
Member
 

The weapon is fine. A Savage Troll Club clone is great for mages, and as PD said, it's the strongest option for rangers now. It does feel like warriors got the short-end of the stick since as Cupcake says, the element is usually irrelevant.

The armor looks strong, but I didn't pay the hundreds of dollars necessary to get it, so I can't speak for how satisfied those players will be with it.

I like the shield since I've always wanted a universal status potency shield. It'll give Necromancer's own status potence a slight boost to bring the overall status potence to decent levels.

Elemental backlash on a pet is always welcome. I believe this is the first of its kind, and I hope we see more of them, especially on less exclusive items than this.

As everyone else has said, the misc is great. The ice boost helps with the set's elemental backlash and damage, and its stat boosts directly help backlash. It does conflict with Frostgale's Remorse on the Freeze side of the set, however.

@Cupcake
Has there ever been a stat roll that uses a stat other than Luk for its minor stat? There's been no precedent of such that I recall, so I don't think it's exactly reasonable to want the misc to be even more optimized just because.
Post #: 51
9/10/2021 15:38:30   
LUPUL LUNATIC
Member
 

The weapon is indeed terrible, just a reskinned Troll Club.
The Pet REALLY needs to be changed to be full ice backlash mode in one of its modes, having another Angra Pet but Ice is not what players imagined when they wanted a dedicated ice backlash pet.
The misc is fine as it can give more hits/backlash effects but really the Pet should have been the center of Backlash Damage.
The Shield , i have no use for 5 potency personally prefered a more specialised effect Potency.
The armor is good but really we should have had the Pet be dedicated full Backlash damage in one of its modes

< Message edited by LUPUL LUNATIC -- 9/11/2021 3:14:35 >
AQ  Post #: 52
9/10/2021 15:45:38   
RobynJoanne
Member
 

For more specialized status potency, we have both Veywild (admittedly rare and not ice) and Frostripper (also admittedly rare) for the functions of this set. I think the staff really wanted to avoid clones of previous items, but then we got a Savage Troll Club clone, so I'm not quite sure.

I didn't notice the pet doesn't pay 100% of damage for backlash. That's definitely a strange choice.
Post #: 53
9/10/2021 15:51:25   
SapphireCatalyst2021
Member
 

@Lupul,

The pet is fine. Since backlash is kind of a pay to win playstyle mostly at this time, I think the items only focusing on backlash would only serve to further that notion. By having it do something else too, those who may not want to put assets into maximizing backlash can still use it for it's freeze effect.
If anything, I think the backlash side should be weaker than they have it and the freeze side should be stronger. I dont think elemental backlash should be as good as harm backlash. But now we have two instances where the elemental pet and guest are far superior in backlash than another that does harm.

Eventually, staff will nerf backlash.


I think Necromancer even at PL120 is the strongest class or subrace in the game with the things it can do (Grasp Essence (all 3) is crazy overpowered, but it's still weaker than a pure backlasher if you have everything to optimize it. Backlash is game breaking. Why do you think it was highly requested?

< Message edited by SapphireCatalyst2021 -- 9/10/2021 15:55:28 >
Post #: 54
9/10/2021 15:56:04   
Cupquake
Member

quote:

@Cupcake
Has there ever been a stat roll that uses a stat other than Luk for its minor stat? There's been no precedent of such that I recall, so I don't think it's exactly reasonable to want the misc to be even more optimized just because.


I think you misunderstood. Stat roll is fine. I'm saying I wish it boosted END/CHA by 50 instead of END/LUK. Because that extra CHA would boost the pet.
Post #: 55
9/10/2021 15:56:41   
LUPUL LUNATIC
Member
 

quote:

Elemental backlash on a pet is always welcome. I believe this is the first of its kind, and I hope we see more of them, especially on less exclusive items than this


I hope we see more but not Half Backlash Pets like frostwyrm currently is, basically its Angra but for Ice instead of Harm with MC for +5% damage, its still a half pet.

quote:

I didn't notice the pet doesn't pay 100% of damage for backlash. That's definitely a strange choice.


Its the most weird decision ever because anyone that suggest the pet wanted to be just like Dreadfiend(pure dedication) and not like Angra(Half). Imo this doesnt even make the pet good because the power difference is soo small youd rather use Harm instead and also not to experience its attack animations which are a pain on Fenris Pup.

quote:

The pet is fine. Since backlash is kind of a pay to win playstyle mostly at this time, I think the items only focusing on backlash would only serve to further that notion. By having it do something else too, those who may not want to put assets into maximizing backlash can still use it for it's freeze effect.
If anything, I think the backlash side should be weaker than they have it and the freeze side should be stronger. I dont think elemental backlash should be as good as harm backlash. But now we have two instances where the elemental pet and guest are far superior in backlash than another that does harm.


It having 2 modes doesnt mean its Backlash mode has to deal only half damage and then the other half is just Pet attacking (which is useless as a Backlasher because you dont have DEX/LUK nor you want Pet animations either), it just has a mode where it was made by design to only be half of power into Backlash and Half power Backlash items benefit no one when we already have Angra (be it elemental or not), the main deal was to be elemental and full power Backlash and elemental Backlash deals /0.9 more damage than Harm Backlash because its not always useful. The Pet could have simply had a Freeze toggle and a Pure Backlash Toggle just like Dreadfiend had one but for Pure damage instead.

< Message edited by LUPUL LUNATIC -- 9/11/2021 3:16:03 >
AQ  Post #: 56
9/10/2021 16:37:29   
RobynJoanne
Member
 

@Cupcake
Oh, I definitely misunderstood. I kind of agree with you, but extra Luk helps with all the effects in the set.

@Lupul Lunatic
Angra Linnorm is one of very few F2P booster pets, so it's fine. However, Frostwyrm Shaman Totem really should go all the way with its backlash. It still does double the damage of Angra Linnorm, but it's just a weird decision. Backlash pets and guests have no reason to attack.

@SapphireCatalyst
Elemental backlash should absolutely be stronger than Harm. Harm is always useful, which will have a cost in damage. That is how the math of the game works.

Backlash was requested because it's a niche effect with very few items in the game to support it. It's the same reason so many people wanted Thermal Shock. People have always wanted the Donation Contest items to support underrepresented effects.

Why do you call backlash game-breaking?

< Message edited by RobynJoanne -- 9/10/2021 16:56:41 >
Post #: 57
9/10/2021 16:43:20   
PD
Member

Items are now in your inventory if you qualified for it. Gonna spin them out and give my thoughts once I'm done testing it. But very quickly, no, there is no mount/unmount mode that locks your attacks to ice/not.
AQ MQ  Post #: 58
9/10/2021 16:47:19   
  The Hollow
AQ Lead


Alright folks Frostwyrm prizes have all been delivered, check your inventory to see what you've won! We will read through your suggestions and decided if any tweaks need to be made. Shops should be arriving next week along with any missing token package shops.
AQ  Post #: 59
9/10/2021 16:50:43   
Sphinx Jevoha
Member


Hello Guys :)

The Carnax armor has its Light and Dark resistances bugged to 168%, instead of 68%. Yikes!

Also, if you were to place the new Carnax's Malice armor vs. the new Frostwyrm armor (including their armor skills), which of the two (without set shields, weapons, etc.) would be greater/stronger?

Cheers!
AQ  Post #: 60
9/10/2021 16:54:21   
PD
Member

So it looks like there's no way to try out ranged/magic versions of the weapon for now since it doesn't look like it's upgradeable/switchable in the account manager, so we'll probably just have to wait until the shops are made next week.
AQ MQ  Post #: 61
9/10/2021 16:55:09   
SapphireCatalyst2021
Member
 

They should just change the shield to be a freeze backlash!!
Post #: 62
9/10/2021 17:01:35   
Cupquake
Member

@Hollow

For tweaks:

Pet: Should really be full backlash instead of half. It might as well be all or nothing since the actual pet damage becomes very weak. Also, the pet attack animation while in backlash mode is slow and nobody using the pet for backlash wants to have a long animation play out. As for the animation, it could just be merged into the freeze mode so it doesn't go to waste or have it be idle but make the ice spikes come out of it. Would look really nice.

Weapon: Just a Savage Troll Club clone which is completely useless as the element is irrelevant. People only use it with imbues or zerkers. Why pay tokens for this when a F2P does the exact same thing? Troll club is also 0 proc so is actually superior to Frostwyrm.

Shield: It's okay but +5 potence is extremely underwhelming. Especially as most people can't take advantage of the FSB. The shield seems to be made for Top 15 only, rather than everyone.

Misc: Instead of boosting END/LUK by 50, I wish it was END/CHA to better compliment the pet.

Armour: No tweaks needed

< Message edited by Cupquake -- 9/10/2021 19:40:30 >
Post #: 63
9/10/2021 17:03:24   
Biokirkby
Member

I do agree that the pet's backlash mode should be... well, more focused on backlash. I do acknowledge the concerns of backlash's power, but this is more a desire for a concentrated focus of the mode rather than "More power please."

Obviously it would be superior to Angra Linorm- I'd like to see the Frostwyrm totem have a dedicated backlash mode, and perhaps a more widely available dedicated backlash harm pet.

Regardless, I'm quite happy with the set- the art is beautiful and I will definitely use the shield, and I agree the misc is great!
DF AQW  Post #: 64
9/10/2021 17:14:11   
PD
Member

As per my original suggestions, or how I would have done things if there wasn't backlash to the set:

Weapon - If the damage effect is going to go, I suggest the following ideas:

1. Passive Freeze Potency / Special that further increases freeze potency and/or inflicts freeze on special.
2. Infinitia Staff Ice Clone effect to regenerate SP (IE -25% damage for SP/MP heal), while also retaining the 100-proc mode that would regenerate SP like the Dreamweaver Bows. Remove the 20% proc in this case.

Pet - Toggleable

1. Freeze Infliction on attack (default)
2. Toggle mode where it doesn't attack, but heals SP. Heals more SP when the monster is frozen.

Shield - Probably remove the FSB from the shield, and give it a passive +10 potency to all effects.

Armor - Lock attacks to Ice with the appropriate EleComp to damage with its regular attack like Svad's Oath. Move the FSB to the armor so people don't feel like they had missed out, have that FSB reduce the cost of the Freeze skill. (Remove backlash mode)




@Hollow: Thanks for catching that bug!

< Message edited by PD -- 9/10/2021 17:52:28 >
AQ MQ  Post #: 65
9/10/2021 17:23:01   
  The Hollow
AQ Lead


quote:

So it looks like there's no way to try out ranged/magic versions of the weapon for now since it doesn't look like it's upgradeable/switchable in the account manager, so we'll probably just have to wait until the shops are made next week.


Just a pesky bug, all 3 weapons are now in the proper inventories.
AQ  Post #: 66
9/10/2021 17:26:16   
Ebrithil 89
Member

Pure backlash on the pet would be nice, but I understand if the staff won't make that kind of effect if they consider it overpowered. It could even keep the part of the attack animation where it grows spikes and still be on-theme. The shield is probably as good as it can get already, considering it offers almost generic status potence. Rest of the items (other than the armour which I don't have an opinion on/didn't get) are fine as-is imo. The special on the weapon looks nice, makes me wonder if the ranged weapon will trigger the cute lil dragon nom every turn.

< Message edited by Ebrithil 89 -- 9/11/2021 1:49:48 >
Post #: 67
9/10/2021 17:36:22   
LUPUL LUNATIC
Member
 

I have to agree that Pure Backlash on the Pet would not make it very comparable to Angra Linnorm which is also a half Backlash Pet but also as cupquake said, the attack animations would rather be skipped as well and just be pure backlash in that mode.

quote:

Angra Linnorm is one of very few F2P booster pets, so it's fine. However, Frostwyrm Shaman Totem really should go all the way with its backlash. It still does double the damage of Angra Linnorm, but it's just a weird decision. Backlash pets and guests have no reason to attack.


Yes, the Pet should do full Backlash and not attack the monsters,as a Backlasher i would want a pure Backlash Pet if i were to try the build in the first place.

quote:

Pure backlash on the pet would be nice, but I understand if the staff won't make that kind of effect if they consider it overpowered

We already have an elemental Backlash Guest for Darkness,and i do not know why they decided to go with a half Backlash Pet this time around with Angra already here but having a dedicated Backlash elemental Pet is not more unbalanced than having elemental boosters in the first place, its just that the more you get focused on one thing the better you do the job for that one thing.

I want to suggest if possible that the Pet to be considered tweaked to be full Backlash mode in that mode and having no attack animation on monsters just some kind of a buff-type art. Thanks!

quote:

The weapon is just terrible. I don't know why we need a Savage Troll Club clone. It does nothing since the element is irrelevant. All the players who use it, use it with zerkers or H series which locks the element.


I agree on the fact that the weapon is not only a clone but also offplaced, i suggested a Backlash weapon with MC for potency like Shark Sabre instead, would definitely fuel the Backlash theme for this set and the top 100 players wont be as upset as having a clone of an existing item as their prize just different element, oh and it also has a proc!


< Message edited by LUPUL LUNATIC -- 9/10/2021 17:39:34 >
AQ  Post #: 68
9/10/2021 17:42:23   
RobynJoanne
Member
 

@PD
Wouldn't the pet be too similar to Frost Effigy in that case? It'd just be a better version of that pet, which is fine, but I'm not a fan of exclusive items being just superior versions of regular items. It doesn't set a good precedent in my opinion.

+10 Status Potency on the shield would be incredible, but it does bring into question just how Status Potency is valued. Snugglehearts gives +20 on burns, so it would seem specialized Status Potency should usually be +20. Should general potency be worth half of that or even less?
Post #: 69
9/10/2021 17:45:58   
Biokirkby
Member

The conjurer and... somethign else sets had damaging status +10, which included burns, poisons and bleeds. So +5 for just about every status seemingly makes sense
DF AQW  Post #: 70
9/10/2021 17:46:11   
Kurtz96
Member

When will the cryo and tremor doomlight shops be added? I accidentally deleted my cryo armor.

I agree that a full backlash pet would be more useful.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 71
9/10/2021 17:47:47   
PD
Member

@RobynJoanne: Good point, I'd actually forgotten that pet exists (which kind of also speaks to how forgettable the Frostgale set was). In that case we could probably have it so that you get a passive SP heal when the monster is frozen. I have adjusted my original suggestion to have it have a passive SP heal mode, with increased SP heals when frozen.

I used the +10 potency effect from the Hollowborn Shield, although it was mostly applied to DoT's. In this case the new Shield would be +10 to any stun/freeze effects. We could even have it be like the Veywild shield which had +20 to all elemental freezes.

Honestly my idea was to just make this Frostwyrm set as close to possible as last year's Veywild. If Veywild was about Petrify and potency, this year should have been Freeze and potency.

EDIT: This conversation is moving a little too fast. I'll post a more comprehensive version of my suggestion in the original suggestion thread.

EDIT2: Posted!

< Message edited by PD -- 9/10/2021 18:02:02 >
AQ MQ  Post #: 72
9/10/2021 18:09:21   
Biokirkby
Member

Does the Veywild give +20 to all elemental freezes? I've had that tucked away for ages because I never petrified...
DF AQW  Post #: 73
9/10/2021 18:12:07   
PD
Member

According to the info sub, it does. Although I don't use petrify/freeze tactics because those tend not to be that accessible so I don't use it either. My suggestion would make freeze pretty easily available for that matter.
AQ MQ  Post #: 74
9/10/2021 19:06:28   
GwenMay
Member

Thanks guys! Items look great, especially the armor.

I think the effects are just fine; if I had to make one suggestion, it would be to make the weapon 0-proc and maybe have pet pay all damage when in backlash mode. Otherwise, good job and thank you!
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 75
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