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It would be great to see some type of shared vault

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11/21/2021 16:35:42   

As there is in AQ. My warrior frequently finds a weapon that would be perfect for my rogue, who likes to find things for my mage, etc. And not all of them are worth saving, but sometimes you find one that it really hurts to not be able to give to your other character. Or am I the only player with multiple characters? If it's not just me, I think it would be a big help to be able to share between your own characters. What do others think?


Ab hoc possum videres domuum tuum.
AQ  Post #: 1
11/21/2021 17:18:00   

Many players have multiple characters, but it's generally not too difficult to obtain a specific piece of equipment if it drops from a quest (besides Inn rewards).

Just do the quest again with the other character to get the item you found. It might require multiple tries to get the wanted item at the wanted level, but c'est la vie.

Besides, it would be a problem with DC items, special offer items, etc..
DF  Post #: 2
11/21/2021 17:41:53   

Yes, I am aware you can do the same quest multiple times with another character to find the same reward. I've been playing AQ games since AQ was the only one, and had a half dozen quests. So this is not news, or in my view a good argument against. Perhaps my mage has other business, but would like the item my rogue found. And as far as DC items and special offer items, I fail to see how it would be a problem there. If you buy an extra of a DC item to share it , you are making more gains for Artix, not less. Ans since it will cost you DC just to have the option, it's a win/win for the game. Particularly as this is something that has been implemented successfully in Adventure Quest, and I assume that any players who would prefer to find everything with each character simply do not take advantage of it. You do need to actually purchase the shared vault, using z-tokens for AQ, and I am sure would be a DC item in DF if implemented. I have found it very useful in AQ, allowing an older character to give an item to a newer character that they no longer find useful, but a "younger" character would. Having used this in AQ for quite some time now, I fail to see what could make a player opposed to it. Because if you don't like to share, don't. It is that simple. And if you enjoy sharing, and find it makes the game more fun to see an item that has been in storage due to not being useful enough for a higher level character, come out and get used again.
AQ  Post #: 3
11/22/2021 15:47:50   

I think it comes down to the balacing of the game. If there would be vaults that could be used to share our items.

I mean, does it mean only quest rewards? Or can classes be shared too? DC items? Inn rewards? Special items? If that would be the case, the balancing of the game would hurt a lot by implementing something like that. Or if the cost of transferring said item is too high, it would make it pointless.

I mean there is already option to buy many of the loots by using DC, at least in most of Book 3. Why would you rather use DC to transfer items to your alternate character when you can use that DC to buy that loot for that character. It could be useful maybe in Book 1? But then again, is it worth it to have this kind of system that is useful only in the first part of the game.

I don't see the point of implementing this kind of system.

< Message edited by Dratomos -- 11/22/2021 15:48:12 >
DF  Post #: 4
11/22/2021 16:19:59   

I feel like, in the end, all this would accomplish is giving people the ability to move their DC items between different characters and grind gold for lower level characters using a higher-level character.

The way item drops work in AQ is really different from DF too. In AQ, you usually get a shop at the end of the quest, while in Dragonfable, you get one random drop, and in book 3, a DC shop. Redoing the quest is the intended free option to getting items at specific levels.

I can see why some people would prefer effectively cutting out a big portion of that through shared vaults, but that's what the DC loot shops are for.

I don't know what DF's code looks like, but it's definitely different from AQ's on many levels, probably to the point where making a shared vault would be more trouble than it's worth, to boot.

You also reach level cap sooner in Dragonfable than in Adventurequest, so you'll spend more overall playtime at the cap, with items that don't go obsolete because of the character's level.


Gonna get my username changed to AlithiaSigma at some point once I figure it out
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 5
11/22/2021 17:40:16   
Laeon val Observis

I've personally crossed this sort of thought before and have done a deal of thinking, and came to the conclusion that it's not really that important. Casual questing here in DF is nowhere near the brutality of AQ's, so looping a quest without the DC bypass shop for drops is only a nuisance of time and RNG of the drop, not the monster encounter. On top of that, unlike in AQ, DF has a stricter progression system to its stories. In AQ, you can pick a story quest at your discretion and get away with getting the best rewards there with the recoil only being that you really didn't care of the chronology and the storytelling aspects of the quest. In DF, you're locked to follow story quest clearing in specific order, so it would be pretty awkward (and that says something if a pragmatic player says awkward in this context) if a character gets an item from a quest that they haven't cleared. Let's not even discuss what it can do if one dares to bypass endgame content structured similarly to LoC, C7, and Exaltia.

The final nail here is also how ground up a change it would possibly be to the game's code. DF only has two full-time devs, with Verly being the master programmer, and Captain Rhubarb ain't always avail for a consultation or assistance. This kind of change might be bigger than we can conceive of, and with stuff like Hard Mode and Book 1 revisions on the waitlist (and are big on their own already), I don't think there will be a realistic timeline to add this content.

< Message edited by Laeon val Observis -- 11/22/2021 17:43:15 >
DF AQW  Post #: 6
11/25/2021 21:25:18   

Well, now that we have heard from the crowd that thinks grinding = goodness, I hope we do hear from the other side. Folks who (if the exist besides just me) would rather be doing some new things rather than going throught the old ones that many times. In my case, with 6 DA characters in this game and 5 Guardians in AQ, that would take more time than I have or want to give. As far as coding it, I suspect it's much like adding an extra invenotry with a specific number of slots for specific items. Ie: one for weapons with 3 or 4 slots, helms, capes, jewelry, and in AQ a shared pool for Z-tokens (DC here). Don't think it is actually a large jobe to create, as the biggest new thing to do would be to create a vault, pack, wahtever that all your characters could access. Then, aside from the DC cost to get initial access, you have ongoing DC sales of extra slots. Want to store 5 items instead of 3? Just pay here! I don't know if any of you play AQ as qell, but I have a few things that are fun to trade around, like my original werewolf skin (armor) and my Lilliputions (pet), both given to me by Galanoth back in the day. So there are many reasons other than using items to grind for gold to have shared access. And , btw, gold is not shared this way. At all. It is set up much like your inventory, spaces for weapons, armor, spells, etc (I think 3 each when you first get it). Also can make a difference whan you (as I just did earlies, have a warrior that gets a dagger reward 5 or 6 times in a row. I sell them, sure, but my rogue would have liked 1 of them. Not talking about large scale wholesale swapping, too many reasons why that does not work anyway. Just a way to add a bit of accessibility for those who don't have the time or the inclination to grind through the same quest 23 times. That's all. And I'm sure that as far as How much work it would be, how much time it would take as compared to how much it is desired, I am fairly sure the devs can figure that out. In the 17 years I have played so far taht has always been the case. No matter what we players think we know, the folk on the other side of the screen actually do know. And they are all pretty good at talking about it when they have time, which is less these days. Back when we had 1 game and around 7 quests Rhubarb, Artix and Galanoth had more time to say hi, even be seen in game. But there are fewer fingers doing a lot more nowadays.
AQ  Post #: 7
11/26/2021 3:58:04   
Laeon val Observis

I’ll filter my responses to your text. I personally tolerate a paragraph wall solely on my transcription job.

As far as coding it, I suspect it’s like adding an extra inventory with a specific number of slot for specific items

If we were to salvage the Shared Vault AQ discussion thread, the Captain himself is the sole person who makes the changes. Therefore, regardless of slot specificities or universalities (please remember that DF’s inventory system totals all items in inventory, not per category. The latter is only for filtering purposes), you’re most likely underestimating things here.

you have ongoing DC sales of extra slots

Um… we haven’t done than in what, since day 1? DC item/feature price discounts in DF only happened in the house items in Book of Lore. And once again, no matter how many times it has to be stated, DF is financially stable still, so no need for additional discounts that can lead to microtransaction devaluations and cause the game to whale. Especially so if there are players here also potentially playing the likes of FGO and Genshin.

Now, your grinding and RNG drop counterargument. I play AQ only a few times because of whaling, esoteric stat calculations and hyperspecific builds associated with them, battles not easing up with leveling (something that I do find odd), sheer randomness across the board, and gold grinding, the middle and last two combining pretty much eschewing things beyond my capacity. Just because you have a pattern of one character getting an item suitable for another doesn’t mean that it’ll always be the case. Even I won’t let such superstition cloud randomness being more than just randomness.

In this game, the combat arena is quite forgiving even in the harshest conditions. The fact that I can keep my character’s stats for both casual and ARRGH (130 STR/INT, 85 END, 100 WIS) and come out decently unscathed at worst is tantamount to that. Beyond the fact that combat actually eases up as you level up here, only a few classes have very specific builds to make them really deadly (e.g. Dragon Warriors don’t care for LUK, INT, or DEX; you’re an idiot if you do not focus on DEX on Dragon Rogue, equally so on INT in the case of Dragon Mage), so your warrior, mage, rogue ideals are mostly a personal bias (if it ain’t clear yet, STR/INT on frequency of crits relative to hitcount, DEX on DoT dmg output versus direct damage) akin to roleplaying. Next, the best items here are more likely to be drops (we have been seeing an increase in minor BiS -best in slot- gear appear in recent story drops that can be bypassed by end-of-quest drop DC shop) or merge items requiring stuff outside of Yulgar’s resource shop (and often the quests having those resources have no cutscenes and guaranteed to drop) than they are to be purchasable by gold. Case in point, let’s set the DK accessories as an example being pretty reliable for their level niches and practically the only things worth really keeping in Book 1 as you expand your arsenal in Book 3 and the Inn. Finally, merge items oftentimes require the previous level version of it to upgrade, thus instantly replacing the outmoded version, rendering the preservation of the latter for shared vaulting as equip low leveled character purposes moot. Regardless of following that rule, the combination grind fests for merge requirements and the triple exp reward character passive that activates at level 20 (even then leveling before that is already quick on its own) mean that you are more likely to worry about outleveling your gear (rule of thumb seems to be that you replace an equippable, if possible, if outmoded by 10 levels. Don’t mind if its subsidiary as you won’t really Inn until max level, even then it shouldn’t be the case in the merge item dept) than you are worrying about any specialized builds per specific class, therefore you’ll loop back into bearing with an array of grinds for exp and resources. Don’t even dare bypass the resource grind with a stronger character, as many quests here scale. On top of that and since we are sugggesting a paywall feature so being a DA is pretty much a given here, all you need to worry weapon-wise is is it a scythe and near or equal your level. You’ll find more accessories that are generic than specialized, and you can take care of cosmetic faults by merely combining armor customizations (if available) and setting certain equippables as displayed (pretty much unlimited possibilities, as long as you’re not prone to wardrobe malfunctions), weapon or otherwise.

To wrap this up (now that I wall of texted myself), it all comes back to the same conclusion I have for shared vault in DF being not really important. Prioritize leveling, worry about replacing wacky gear with optimal ones at max level (especially important if you wish to set up a career in the Inn). All shared vault would justify here is one character getting a visually-pleasing item for another than it is gameplay pleasing since you’ll be leveling quick. Combine it with the recently added multi-save equip/cosmetics feature, it’ll only add to the nuisance of reconfiguring those saves, especially if sharing hardcore BiS gear between a character that has them and that doesn’t to try and soften up hardcore fights, which are optional. In this situation, I'd probably have more purpose with Item Upgrader being adopted here as opposed to SV if some odd feature were to be implemented.

< Message edited by Laeon val Observis -- 11/26/2021 4:31:54 >
DF AQW  Post #: 8
11/26/2021 13:23:42   

Well, thank you for commenting twice on my idea. Although I would have thought that my 2nd post made it clear that we have very different concepts of what makes the game enjoyable, so you are arguing points that do not enter in to my playstyle at all. Almost sounds like a completely different game when you start describing it, really. which is great for you, but not what I am interested in. And for my paying style, as well as time, this sort of thing would be perfect. Btw - Arena? Do you mean the dragon training arena? went there once, thought it was easy and boring, frankly. And not the sort of thing I even care about, could go away and I wouldn't notice for quite a long time. Any way, still hoping that someone who plays more in "old style" will check in to this post. Because if you don't like AQ, and find it too hard, I'm surprised you even play often enough to notice the forums. I think AQ is a deal of fun, and you are right, It does not get easier as you level, It frequently gets harder in fact. Excellent game design. Getting to be a higher level character is not supposed to take the challenge away, just supposed to get the option for better toys. But all this is skewing completely away from my ori post, which is simply that it would be nice to have the availability of shared inventory. As I said, let the actual devs who know what they are doing decide on its feasibility. There is no point in arguing that here,as we are not the games programmers. So far , all the other arguments I have seen are personal choice, not any large game shaking actual reasons. Opinions are great, and everyone has them, but not usually a reason to do, or not do something. And those who seem very worried about the performance or wealth of other players, you are playing against yourself, not others. And if you go into AQ for example and look around yes, you will find people who have accumulated a lot. I have been playing AQ since the spring of 2004, so unless I am truly inept, you should expect that I would have more stuff than you. It's been a long time, played for years before I had over 1mil gold, but now I do have a good amount. I just didn't get it all at once. And the "harder battles as you level" produce more loot and experience points. If it kept getting easier because the monsters stayed the same level you would wind up having easy fights for nothing. Seems to me that you are complaining about why AQ is a great game, that has lasted a long time. Sorry you don't like it better, but you will find that most games you can play that have lasting enjoyment do not keep getting easier as you level, although it is probably hard to explain to someone who thinks farming and grinding is a good thing. I'm not sure you are playing the right game at all, from the things you seem to like. Not trying to say anything negative about you personally, it's just that I have trouble understanding why you play a game that has ( from what I can see) little value to someone who mainly measures their worth against other players, instead of just playing for themselves. I never have understood that mindset, never went for team sports in rl either, just want to beat my own score. If you get a good one, I can be happy for you without feeling diminished in any way, because it doesn't affect me. Aldo why I do not like pvp type games, because everyone (almost it seems) spends much of their time gloating about being better than the next person. I'd rather just play, discover new quests, figure things out, beat up some monsters. So i don't get it at all when people start being worried that other players are doing better than they are. If you look at someone else and feel they are netter than you (or worse) due to having more stuff, or experience, you need new glasses and a better yardstick. That one is broken.


Ab hoc possum videres domuum tuum.
AQ  Post #: 9
11/26/2021 17:58:55   

@kevinc1, how much have you played DF in recent years? Because your post gives the feeling that you don't have the clear grasp of DF's current state. Laelon was talking about Inn at the edge of time, also known as Arena at the edge of time or arena that is updated monthly with new boss fights. It's not a pvp, you fight bosses there. You can access by clicking the rift on the Falconreach. Because it seemed that if the game Laelon described sounded completely different game, maybe you are out-of-touch what DF currently is.

And otherwise, you really don't answer our reasons why not many here are fan of this shared vault. You don't reply how it would work with DC items, Special Offer (aka SO) items that come with DC packages or like Doom Knight armor. Or the loot we get from Arena at the Edge of Time (to be clear, it's not the same as PVP arena).

We don't disagree with your post because we "like" farming. We disagree with it because it doesn't fit with DF's current style really. AQ and DF are two completely different games nowadays, while they were pretty similar in the old days.
DF  Post #: 10
11/26/2021 18:27:06   

Well, that's it for me. I was trying to hear from some different folk about this, but instead I keep hearing from the same 2 who keep insisting that their opinions are reasons and that they represent the rest of the players of the game. when your point of view is that obfuscated, no point in trying to continue.
Also - Dratamos - I did indeed address your points - collectively - as they are opinions held by you, not immutable facts. There is absolutely no point in continuing this, so just drop it. Goodbye.
AQ  Post #: 11
11/26/2021 19:28:38   

I'm sorry, I hadn't noticed you already answered some of them. By no means, I'm stating that my opinions are facts, but as I've played very little of AQ, I looked on Rhuharb's post on Shared Vault. ANd I did misunderstood how it works. So I can see it's uses now a bit better. It was also a lot cheaper than I thought. I understood it would cost DC to add or receive items but since it doesn't, it's only one time purchase what I gathered. I admit I was wrong originally.

So yeah, it's now much better idea than I originally thought. But how does it work with resale value? I mean, if I buy a doom weapon that costs 28000 gold with my main, transfer it to my alt who sells it, that alt has now 2800 gold, right? Which is basically same as adding gold, but only 10% of it. It might not sound a big deal, but it is a big advantage to lower levels.

But is it as necessary for DF? That's a different story. While not a bad addition, level cap is hit much easier in DF. And the best weapons and items you get then are not anymore loot based (except those Elite Rose weapons....) but mostly taken as a reward from Inn at the Edge of Time. And since you are only locked with a weapon type when using your base class (or atealan/dragon), there isn't any losses to be a dagger-wielding Warrior who uses Ranger class.

It would be best maybe for those who want to use their lowe-level alt characters and want farm with their main account, who have faster and better classes.

But the biggest probelm my arise from the Inn. As it offers best items of the game, and some of them are even level 1 (like Vaal's Ego or most of the pets), it would give even bigger advantage to lower level alts. And I don't know if it is game-breaking for character to own an item that they didn't craft or it's from a quest they haven't unlocked.

< Message edited by Dratomos -- 11/26/2021 19:32:06 >
DF  Post #: 12
11/26/2021 19:37:33   

Hmm, I've only been to the inn once or twice, and did not find it to be of interest, so I really know very little about it. However, this may help anyway, if I am seeiong your point here. As far as transferring a weapon (or whatever) to another player, they must be at least the same level to take it out of the shared storage. Same as buying it. So, you have a level 5o or 60 character, who puts the sword they got into shared space , so their other character who is a warrior perhaps, can use it. But if the weapon is level 50, the other char. needs to be a high enough level to use it, or they can not remove it from storage. So while it is a helpful way to share things between your own characters, it would be a very bad way to try and make gold for a new character. Shared space or none, as far as I know, you always have to make your gold the old fashioned way. Fight fight fight!
AQ  Post #: 13
11/26/2021 19:53:27   

I used doom weapons as example, as they cost 28000 gold, but are only level 8 for their base version. So, a level 8 character could receive it and get 2800 gold easily that way (and that 28000 gold isn't a lot of gold for level 90 player usually). So might raise issues? And it also makes a lot easier for alt character for not to farm gold anymore for their items, as higher level alts that have gold can just buy it and transfer it using vault. And same really for DC items. If your main character has a lot of DC, you can just buy the items and transfer them to new character that has no DC.

As for Inn, it's endgame content basically. There your stats, weapons and class really matter, as well as understanding bosses rotations and attacks.

So yeah, these are the base issues that rise with DF's vault that might not be present in AQ. That and the inventory system being different. But then again, this vault could be just an upgraded version of the Bank vault?

I understand your idea know and don't see any big problems with it anymore.
DF  Post #: 14
11/26/2021 19:59:43   
Laeon val Observis

^AQ's SV does have this fine print:

* Retrieving items from Vault is similar to Buying shop items. Same kind of requirements must be met. (level, guardian, etc)

If taken as is, it will include the pricing of the item on top of the level and upgrade locks. So in your analogy of the Doom weapon, the lower level char is still obligated to purchase it for 28k gold to yank it out of vault. The next hurdle would be the nature of merge items. Sure, non-Inn stuff have gold sellbacks (many Inn rewards worth keeping are 0 DC(+DA), and may in any combination unsellable/indestructible), but I don't think it'll be just as simple as multiplying its (gold) sellback price by 10 and depending on the pricing of the resources, might be an economics nightmare. And last I remember, the best stuff that can be bought, DC or gold, is FDL, DL artifacts, and the stuff in Nieboheim, plenty of them significant investments if gold is concerned.

< Message edited by Laeon val Observis -- 11/26/2021 20:04:35 >
DF AQW  Post #: 15
11/26/2021 20:05:55   

That was my original thought, that with personal inventory spaces and the bank vaults, particularly as you can buy an item to hang on the wall and access the bank vault from your player home, it seem to me that it would not be too difficult. And I doubt that many would see it as an option to avoid farming. I really don't farm much, even In AQ, but I also don't pass items to my other chars so they can sell them. Sometimes, it's just extra storage for me. I have 5 characters in AQ, and really only play 2 of them regularly. So the others are frequently being extra storage, when I have an item I don't use much anymore, but still enjoy having, like my original, old style vampire outfit from many years back. Pretty useless as armor these days, but still fun to have. But i digress , a frequent failing. Yes, I do not see it a a danger to the game in any real way, not do I think very many would see it as a useful alternative to getting gold by playing, doing quests, etc. I just have noi idea whether the programming staff has considered adding it. ?? who knows??
AQ  Post #: 16
11/27/2021 23:15:50   

Considering you can reconfigure your stats at any time for a nominal fee, and classes out than the base/dragon/atealan classes don't restrict damage type at normal play, "your warrior getting a dagger you would want to give your rouge" by random drop isn't really a problem, let alone one that needs solving.

You're obviously not trying to optimize all of your DF characters for Inn At The Edge of Time challenges, so you don't need a shared vault to avoid grinding at all, unless you really really really want a specific weapon for cosmetic purposes.

You say you use the shared vault as a way to make your other characters into extra storage. Even with the restrictions you've mentioned, a shared vault would allow players to pass DC armors, crafting materials, and more, while also bypassing the limited inventory space that's normally dealt with using DCs.


I keep hearing from the same 2 who keep insisting that their opinions are reasons and that they represent the rest of the players of the game. when your point of view is that obfuscated, no point in trying to continue.

You've been insisting your own opinions are reasons too. Is the usefulness of a shared vault not a matter of opinion?

Nobody here has said grinding is good, just that if you want something specific, that's how you get it.
If you want something specific, it's either for the stats or how it looks. This is not an opinion, the stats and cosmetic value are literally what is unique about unique weapons. Unless you are trying to optimize, then the stats for most weapons of the same level are functionally identical. This is also not an opinion, the damage and stat ranges of weapons depend on what level the weapon is. Ergo, adding a shared vault would not reduce grinding unless you are optimizing. If you play the game, you will get plenty of opportunities for gear suitable for your level, even without grinding. This is not an opinion. You get a drop each quest, there are tons of unique quests, and this is not even factoring in shops.

So far, your reasons in support of the shared vault are:
-You want your characters to have specifically the items one character occasionally gets randomly
-You want the extra inventory space
-AQ has it

Are those good enough reasons to want a shared vault? Sure, if you're fine with letting your own opinion make the judgement.

Being able to share DC items is still a concern, people would not be "buying another one to share it," they will be sharing the same DC item among all their characters instead of buying them. There are a lot of DC items, notably classes, that are equally as useful for all characters, no matter what their level.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 17
11/28/2021 22:36:09   

Considering you can reconfigure your stats at any time for a nominal fee, and classes out than the base/dragon/atealan classes don't restrict damage type at normal play, "your warrior getting a dagger you would want to give your rouge" by random drop isn't really a problem, let alone one that needs solving. (quoting 1girlhousefan)

Perhaps , from what you are saying, you would consider my persona; reasons as "cosmetic. Because I prefer that my warrior continues being a warrior, my rogue a rogue, etc, even though I am aware that as aDA holder I can redo my stats all day, at no charge. To me the point is to make a good rogue, or warrior. So that is why it would be useful to me personally to be able to give a very good dagger my warrior fids to my rogue, or vice versa. And , you are incorrect in stating that "all daggers the same level will have the same stats" Or, to quote you again " then the stats for most weapons of the same level are functionally identical. " Not so in all cases. Some weapons of a given level are significantly better than most. Those are typically also more rare, so finding one with the "wrong" character (ie: mage finding sword, rogue finding sword or staff) is exactly the reason, not opinion that I would like to be able to give it to a different character that it is appropriate for. I suppose if you play with a less structured view of your characters , it would not matter as much, if at all. That is the main reason I would like top see it, many of the others I have mentioned - sharing more or less for nostalgia, to keep that cool item long after it's usefulness has passed are mainly personal, and while still actual reasons, not ones that everyone would share by any means. And no one has to agree with me, or disagree for that matter. I was presenting the opinion that I think it would be useful, and then stating my reasons why. I do not expect to see it in DF unless the devs were alreadyb planning for it. For me, the topic was hoping to find that out, if possible, as well as seeing what other people thought of the utility of being able to share between their own characters. And if you are not a person who regularly makes a number of different characters to play, it would not appeal, I imagine. For me, I have 6 DA characters here, 5 Guardians in AQ and slightly unfortunately, 3 characters in MechQuest, and 2 (or 3? not sure) in Warp Force all upgraded. 2 of those games will almost certainly never see another line of code, but I enjoyed hem as far as they went. My point here, is that it's a big world, and so is this one, with many people and we all have different styles of play.
And here I do not mean any one specific person, but sometimes, people seem to comment in a thread just to say why something can not be done. I always find that odd (and unhelpful to anyone unless they are indeed game programmers, not usually likely) that some do that rather than simply discuss why they would like the idea, or not like it. It always seems to me that when people start to post " hmm, can't do that in this game, devs couldn't do it" that not being devs actually, they are simply trying to find a way to be negative without saying they simply don't see the utility of the idea. Sort of like when I lived in New Mexico a while back, I rode a motorcycle year round, so it was a fairly sensible form of transport. If I lived in Vermont, or perhaps Greenland, I probably would not think so. So I see no reason why someone can't just say "huh, not for me" or, in my case, just move on to another topic. If I am interested in an idea is when I generally comment. I very rarely bother posting if I am not interested, because why? There is generally no payoff for trying to change someone's mind, so if they are suggesting something why even post to simply say you can't do that when the person probably does not know that is correct. I do see teh point in having a discussion, of reasons you like or dislike an udea, but simply stating "reasons" or "facts" that you actually do not know? Big waste of time.
(If any one gets offended by my statements, please remember I was raised in the woods by moglins, and it's not my fault) :-)

PS: My goodness, I really do talk too much! I had an English professor many years ago who called my writing "verbosely erudite" - hah! So yeah, I do sometimes go on a bit, or a lot.

< Message edited by kevinc1 -- 11/28/2021 22:45:00 >
AQ  Post #: 18
11/29/2021 3:46:26   
Laeon val Observis

^And yet you refute going optimal when you still have as much a mindset of a pragmatic if you actually understand that equipment do have informal hierarchies when it comes to usability. Before we continue on, apart from what @1girl –AlithiaSigma, rather, so as to pay my respects to how she wants to be called (sorry, even my technical navigation skills have found none as to how you can username change here, if it was even possible)– called you out on your looping proofs (and frankly, even the game’s Titans of BattleOn quest already makes clear that AQ and DF’s timeline flows have diverged from each other. Otherwise, our Elemental Dissonance should’ve ended DF and led for the reason for the AQ hero’s more recent “Journey to the West” shtick), I will say what I have repressed after you responded to my initial thorough education of how this game works: Don’t try to run away by feigning ignorance of being not a programmer. The fact that you decided to set up a QoL suggestion as opposed to an art suggestion means you have to have some technical know-how (now I understand why my dad wanted to teach me advanced Excel visualizations when he thought he needed an assistant in his consultancy apart from reawakening my HTML 5 and CSS knowledge from college) and the open mindedness when somebody calls out a flaw in the design of your suggestion. Next, please put a check on your “I have been… for/since…” line of thinking, which has already been overused to the ground in the customer service arena of real life, especially when you hiatused for quite a while then rapidly fired a suggestion. Finally, don’t try to also run by trying to cite how few people are discussing here. We’re just that small a community, and plenty of regular talkers here are technical in certain fields.

Now, let’s get down to business here with some point to pointing:

1. In this game, the levelling speedruns you – The exp to gold reward disparity is significant here. That Doom weapon analogy? You’d be delaying your character’s growth if you’re actually gonna give him/her an item that requires significant long term investments to actually be worth beyond weapon effect slotting (most of Book 1 and 2’s items are not up to modern standards), especially with something so expensive (Potion Mastery, Book 1’s quickest, zero battle gold farmer, clocks an average of around 75 clearings just for 1 DW). And since you have yet to perform a defense on the demerits of AQ’s SV as having the “same requirements” clause to yank out a vault item (and is pretty much what keeps it fair) when we try to apply that to DF, you might wanna start by reconsidering gold farming pace compromising levelling, which will impact you further in getting better items ASAP. Hence why even though it can be a tedium, DF players are better off farming merge resources on the majority of their character’s growth, level and arsenal-wise (which should already be obvious to those who own multiple characters, which was one of your main premises, and already figured best possible routes for clearing the game). Be careful to factor in your defense that DF’s merge system is different from AQW’s, which can throw a wrench to any possibility of vaulting such items.

2. Item series merits – If we look at the items that actually become ( significantly) noteworthy, plenty of them are in a series. That is, they’re marked in ordinals (Roman numerals), “All versions” in their forum pages if they’re the same name, or through any other variation (e.g. the Jade Cleaver series). Coupled to the details that I educated you on my previous wall of text, how about trying to consider the better merits of an Item Up-/Downgrader here than a SV. At least that’ll reduce RNG freakouts for those that ain’t merge items that you’re fixated on.

3. Look vs feel good, or look and feel good – Once again, please check my initial wall of text for the details. Roleplaying and pragmatic playing here has a thin line, pretty much drawing on whether you’re better suited off in contributing fat war wave counts or clearing many endgame battles once the going gets tough.

I pretty much said what I need to so as to try to see if this discussion is even worth further talk. Otherwise, I’ll leave it here and the rest can decide whether or not to follow suit.
DF AQW  Post #: 19
11/29/2021 4:00:57   

Allowing suggestion threads again was a mistake
DF  Post #: 20
11/29/2021 17:47:09   

ProbablyCallum - Very possibly true. Yet out of all the tumult and grandiose claims sometimes comes an actual idea. No guarantees though. Just like actual life, it is.
AQ  Post #: 21
11/30/2021 12:19:28   


Allowing suggestion threads again was a mistake

Hey, at least the devs don't have to explain the reason why they won't be implementing it themselves when commentary shows enough understanding of why a suggestion isn't worth it.
Not to mention how absolutely swamped Dove and Verlyrus are at essentially all times.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 22
11/30/2021 15:26:12   
Laeon val Observis

While Cal's tone was way too cynical, I can understand why that talk appears once a suggestion thread reaches a head, especially after the DF community had to deal with a repeat offender of repetitive outlandish suggestions even before I joined the forums (the last time was around May-July 2021 if estimations were correct. The thread was deleted after it was made very clear that we don't need such means to liven up the community). And, @Kev, your most recent response just has those colors of wide-eyed idealisms that we are watching out for being red flags.

Now, focus back to the topic that was the SV suggestion.
DF AQW  Post #: 23
12/2/2021 2:09:55   

Joining the discussion slightly late, but I would like to say something.

I do have multiple characters, and such, but my main is some level 70+ or something while the other two are base classes and not even level 20.
Not to mention I dont even have proper equipment for them, as farming at those levels (with classes I'm unfamiliar with - Born and raised Warrior) is difficult (Dont get me started on the grind for the other classes).
So the vault, from what I can understand - It reminds me of the system in Borderlands.
I think it would make things a lot easier for my lower levelled characters, but not so much for my higher levelled char.
Transferring the loot and what not to get the equipment that makes my lower levelled characters do a bit more.

BUT that being said - I'm not keen on this system per se. It feels like an added thing that doesnt really improve the overall gameplay. Yes, it works in the long run and such, but it feels like it would be a late stage addition to the current changes implemented to the gear and costume work that was done earlier this week (I believe).

All of this is only my opinion. DF's battle system is okay for the time being, but I strongly Dislike AQ's combat mechanic on the whole. It was charming when I started playing it all those years ago, but its lost its glamour for me. I dont think that the DF's system should regress into the AQ one. The shared vault, for the loot SHARING would be a good bet for things like wars, where you cant always play all characters in all wars, and you get some decent loot.
But beyond that.. I'm not a fan of the idea personally. I apologize if that comes off the wrong way to some.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 24
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