Grace Xisthrith
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Taking Lorekeeper's message seriously, I want to provide two fleshed out alternatives to the current DEX style bonus, since I'm quite opposed to it. Briefly though first, the MRM could be swapped to BTH. Nobody likes MRM apparently :p . I also think that as many players have suggested, particularly Dardiel, the bth lean adjustment could be faster.
Second, two ideas I wanted to provide more detail on are an idea of how to implement lean mitigation in a way that works well with the DEX identity, and the potential benefit of implementing mechanics that trigger on missed attack.
Lean mitigation is mitigating the downsides of BTH leans, more accuracy for inaccurate attacks, more damage for accurate attacks. My view for this as an improved version of how it was originally proposed, taking into account the new proposed DEX identity is as follows: (assuming 10% melee valuation)
Lean mitigation present at all BTH leans, but it scales in power, only 5% melee at 0 BTH lean, but at more intense BTH leans, it scales up (sort of like a player controlled trigger, since the player influences their bth lean) up to 15% melee. The exact numbers are of course up to staff, but I'd propose 5% melee at 0, 10% melee at 15 bth lean, and 15% melee at 30 bth lean.
In short, at 0 BTH lean, you get evenly split damage and accuracy (2.25 bth and 2.5% damage). At 15 bth lean, you get 75% your synergistic bonus (accuracy with a -bth lean, damage with a +bth lean, in this case 7.5% damage and 2.25 bth, or 6.375 bth and 2.5% damage), and at a 30 BTH lean you get 100% your synergistic bonus (+15% damage for +bth lean, +12.75bth for -bth lean). This synergizes well with the stat identity, and although it does benefit FO more than FD, it does help to give more reliable attacks to FD rangers inflicting statuses. This would also reward players for managing their bth lean effectively, and pushing their builds as far one way or the other as they can. This is not a perfect implementation, but I'm hopeful it would provide a significant benefit to DEX players while being much more interesting, and unique compared to STR, than a flat damage boost. It could also increase with consecutive turns of negative or positive bth leans, 4 turns to reach the cap for example 50/50, then 62.5/37.5, 75/25, 87.5/12.5, 100/0. There is more than one way to do it.
My second idea I'd like to flesh out is effects when players miss their attacks. With the current proposal of adjusting bth leans based on hits and misses, it's almost guaranteed that DEX builds will eventually miss with their attacks. This, in my opinion, opens the field to effects which proc on missed attack.
Since attacks have an 85% hit chance, miss chance is 15%. Whatever %melee is inputted is then divided by that 15%, so it can have a very strong output, and can probably be made to feel valuable to players, even if it procs rarely. (This should probably be affected by the player's negative BTH lean, since it's now built into the stat. That would weaken the multiplier, but of course it would happen more often)
These effects could potentially be differentiated based on weapon proc chance (IE, different for FO and FD based builds). Perhaps they couldn't be, I don't know I'm not a coder, but it would be nice if they could be
The below numbers assume a 5% melee investment. The numbers are probably off by 15% here or there, and assume base 15% miss rate, which would probably not be the case, given the ever changing lean built into DEX. However, it's a baseline so that players or staff might see the appeal, here are some of the ideas I came up with that could be used
-Inflict (hits missed/hits attempted) / .15 x 5% melee defloss (~20 defloss) (your foe dodges the attack, but it leaves them in a disadvantaged position)
-Gain (hits missed / hits attempted) / .15 x 3 MRM (~20 MRM)(your foe dodges the attack, but it forces them off balance so their next attack is less accurate).
-Gain (hits missed / hits attempted) / .15 x 5% melee elempower (~33 elempower)(you miss your foe, but keen agility allows you to perceive how they guard their weak points) (wording needs work ty in advance LK :p)
-Heal (hits missed / hits attempted / .15 x 5% melee in HP (~115) (you miss your foe, but catch a brief respite as they avoid your attacks) (this may be considered resource regen, and is now the only one that does this since STR has lost its Choke, so maybe it's invalid)
-Gain a (hits missed / hits attempted / .15 x 5/100/.85) ~40% chance of celerity on missed attack (your extreme agility allows you to overcome your mistake with pure speed)
Some of these effects are pretty plain, some have very obvious results, but all of them interact with the DEX identity of self adjusting bth lean. DEX players would eventually see these benefits in battle, and it would make the downside of the lean adjustment (eventually being forced to miss) almost like a bonus instead of a detriment. I hope this would also be distinctly unique from STR's raw damage boost.
Other things:
Ward: That is a good well worded response. I'm happy to have had the discussion about it, and I like and now understand several of your points.
Branl:
"There technically isn't any motivation to use FO over FD, it was always less efficient. Nothing's really changed in that regard." Comparing FO to FD from before to after the proposal (if the proposal goes live as stated), going from dealing 25% damage for taking ~55% more monster damage to dealing 10% damage for taking ~55% more monster damage is a massive expansion of the efficiency gap between FO and FD, I don't really see how you can argue otherwise.
"Spending 250 strength for 10% Melee is.... a choice I guess. It's actively weaker than investing in literally any other stat though so I don't know what your problem with that is." Very fair point. Hybridizing in a second mainstat should have strong benefits. I still think it might be too much to have them stack so easily together, but that's a very fair point.
"Most of these are just ideas that were rejected months ago." Pretty sure that's just incorrect. They proposed several of them themselves (MRM, Lean Mitigation, Initiative). The only one I know of that's been acknowledged by staff is the RNG autododge, which was viewed negatively to my memory, and they haven't said anything about the initiative formula in over a year, although they did change their minds on their initial proposal back then of having DEX count for 2x what STR and INT does. Not really a big deal either way though, I'm probably just being petty defending my points teehee : p
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