Convergent Evolution: Do you Like it?


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3/24/2014 14:09:06

edwardvulture
Member

Ever since passives and actives, many unique builds that only one class could have have ceased to exist. Examples are the tank TLM, support BH, dex spam BH, no focus tech Merc, i'm sure there were lots more. If you noticed, each class, before passives to actives had something different to offer, i'm sure some of you can elaborate on this point for me. Now all the classes do basically the same things, some more effective than the others. All classes are given an energy regeneration skill and an energy stealing skill. All classes have shields that cover both defense and offense, once again some "better" than others. All classes have viable strength builds. 5 bonus works almost as well for every class. None of the classes can spam dex except tech mages. Spamming tech without focus is no longer an option because of the huge stress this game has on energy. There are very few things that are unique to classes anymore.

The question and the point of discussion is: Do you like this? or do you like it back when each classes had something unique to offer.

This isn't a balance discussion as much as a discussion on the role and nature of classes based on personal preference so please don't bring OP or UP or any of those balance terms into this discussion.

Post #: 1

3/25/2014 22:55:19

Exploding Penguin
Moderator

I preferred it back then. I actually have no motivation to change classes now, and most other people wouldn't either if they weren't so focused on simple-minded fast win builds.

< Message edited by Exploding Penguin -- 3/25/2014 22:56:18 >

Epic

Post #: 2

3/25/2014 23:33:20

Mother1
Member

I have to agree with exploding penguin on this one.

I remember when you actually had to think when using some builds to win, as well as build diversity being a lot higher than it is now. I also remember when more than one build could counter flavor of the week builds as well.

Epic

Post #: 3

3/26/2014 0:55:30

edwardvulture
Member

A slight exaggeration: "Now there are Tech Mages and weaker Tech Mages"

Post #: 4

3/26/2014 2:36:45

comicalbike
Member

well at the moment no skill needed just have strength and hit with high health

Epic

Post #: 5

3/26/2014 11:19:37

Predator9657
Member

quote:

A slight exaggeration: "Now there are Tech Mages and weaker Tech Mages"

Lol. That, and strenght mercs/cybers aren't doing too bad.

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Epic

Post #: 6

3/26/2014 15:46:10

Emperor_Blitz
Member

Agreed with passives i saw quite a few tank builds and they were more affective. Now without them means high strength build 24/7. Just for fast wins/

Epic

Post #: 7

3/27/2014 2:17:35

Thylek Shran
Member

quote:

Do you like this? or do you like it back when each classes had something unique to offer.

I had the most fun during late Delta. Clone builds wasn´t much of a problem there as still
alot different builds existed. I think that the class change option combined with Omega
ruined ED as to many players now just hop to the next OPed class and build of the month
so that since then there is not much interest and hope for balance as the majority will defend
their OPed builds, skills and cores with foul arguments.

< Message edited by Thylek Shran -- 3/27/2014 2:18:38 >

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Epic

Post #: 8

3/27/2014 14:03:24

edwardvulture
Member

^and you are non-varium for the most part just like me.

You know that balance has been compromised when non-varium players like Delta better than Omega where varium is really just a short cut for the most part.

Now for my own response to my own thread:
I dislike how all the classes are following "trend builds" such as 5 bonus w/ tech spam or strength build with High HP and low support(Let's call this the Spike build because it is a mouthful to type) There should be unique builds and strategies for each class. The thing is we sort of have that right now but they are no where near the power of 5 bonus or the Spike build. How will the developers try to fix this? They will want to nerf it again. I say we don't do that and we make other builds just as effective and make classes distinctive again.
How do we step away from convergent evolution? The first step is to split the skill tree. and then to extend it with even more skills. For example, would it be unbalanced if every class had 2 types of multis, and 2 finals? The thing with strength is that most of the skill tree is affected by strength somehow, for example it could be argued that half the skill tree of the mercenary class has its damage and effect rooted in strength and you add strike and gun to that and it is easy to reach the logical conclusion that strength is the most powerful stat. How do we fix this? Well... we could extend the skill tree and directly supplement to other stats, dex, tech, support, that are not be abled to utilized offensively. For example, blood mage has a huge problem of being unable to utilize support offensively. How do we fix this, well.. how about a red overload that scales on support?

Energy flow is another topic that needs to be attacked because without it, non-strength builds can only deal small damage compared to strength builds. Right now, there is not enough energy to go around. How do we fix this? We give incentives to invest in energy because currently, Health is much much more valued than energy beacuse it is survivablity vs. functionality. If we find a balance between those two, then Health and Energy will effectively be balanced.

Post #: 9

8/30/2014 6:31:13

Thylek Shran
Member

The energy flow is to much based on draining I think. In Delta it was way more concentrated
in gaining instead of draining. Skills that can do both types with high power in just 1 move are OPed:
Energy Parasite, Static Smash, Static Grenade. I do not count in Assimilation as it is not that strong
compared to them and because TM energy flow is splitted into two skills.
EMP and Static Smash could nearly destroy the whole energy pool with just 1 move when maxed.
This does mean that they are like the Ultimates skills but versus EPs instead HPs.

Especially Energy Parasite makes it dangerous to invest into EPs as this skill does increase in power
when the opponent has more EPs. There is no HP counterpart skill around that does increase in
power when the opponent has high HPs. Another problem is that Energy Parasite is an additional
bonus to BMs because they can own opponents with high EPs who have a weakness in HPs or stats
then because they invested into EPs instead of something else. BMs can make use of this in any
situation as they have Bludgeon and Plasma Cannon versus low HP/tank builds and MoB vs high HP
builds with weak defenses and it also is efficient against light and medium tanks like 5 focus builds.
A raging Bludgeon is deadly to most opponents anyway if it doesnt get blocked.

Epic

Post #: 10

8/30/2014 22:42:11

lionblades
Member

Hi, lately I haven't been posting much...I think ED has been losing its "shine". I am starting to play LoL

1. The lack of build variety really bugs me. But considering the current game mechanics at L40 I am not surprised because very few builds actually work. Big problem at 40. The whole energy problem and str/hp+ranks has been going on way to long. L40 Jugg has been impossible since passive to active update. No fix coming anytime soon. I miss being able to use full support merc/tlm or TM caster (my fav builds).

2. Varium. Wow, this was amazing in previous phases. Now the only useful varium package imo is the $50 one. I miss when we could pay $20 (or 25 I forget) and get Chairman's Platinum armor+Var+Creds. Varium doesn't even stand out that much--there should be more varium only cosmetic items that can make a varium player stand out more. I don't buy varium now because I already have all the items I need... (this part was slightly off topic so feel free to ignore)

3. Goes back to #1: Because of bad Omega battle mechanics (and other reasons like poor enhancement compensation) most of my friends quit. I'm not a hardcore player so this doesn't bug me that much, but I'm sure some are. If only classes were more unique (meaning not every class can drain/gain energy etc.) and more build variety at endgame, this game would be so much better...I think we have enough coreless weapons already.

AQW	Post #: 11

8/31/2014 0:49:29

ReinVI
Member

I called it as soon as the passive to active update was 'spoiled' they stripped away what made each class unique.

Epic	Post #: 12

9/12/2014 0:41:07

mr.p
Member

well heres what i remember. i remember non-veruim players geting the stuff beat out of them by varuim players 5 lvls lower than them. i remember having to buy a new wep every time i leveled up, because the weps couldn't lvl up with you. and you have to bye particular weps to make particular builds, because you couldn't change the stats on the weps. the kings and queens see it differently than the peasants.

Post #: 13

9/12/2014 23:55:07

Pemberton
Member

Yeah this whole passive to energy dependence is even worse in terms of build variety...because how can you even use your skills and cores
without energy...its pointless...so just go strength and strike away lol...

Post #: 14

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