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RE: =DF= Necromancer Armor Discussion Thread

 
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12/3/2017 20:34:17   
Greyor_42
Member

@raviel

it's a bug that's inherent in the shroud skill in general, for some reason, depending on the skill you use immediately before shroud, shroud will decide to re-activate that skill as part of its effect(i've seen it happen with raise minion and rage), and deal damage of the last element you were hit by, THEN give you the 140% resistance. really irritating if you're fighting enemies that have a natural 200 resistance to their own attacking element, since you'll end up HEALING them, sometimes by quite a bit. on the other hand, it's unintentionally useful if they either have no resistance to their own element, or are even WEAK to it(there are a rare few cases of a monster being weak to its own element in this game).

< Message edited by Greyor_42 -- 12/3/2017 20:36:38 >
DF  Post #: 76
12/3/2017 20:36:32   
Raviel193
Member

@Greyor

Ty wasn't sure if it was something new or not.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 77
12/4/2017 2:58:52   
Ace Woodlink
Member

quote:

since Pyro got incidentally nerfed by the change to DoTs which are the majority of its damage.


Hang on, when and what was the change to DoTs?
MQ  Post #: 78
12/4/2017 5:27:28   
Luma
Member

Can't remember specifically, but it's been awhile back. DoTs used to do double damage if enemy has even the slightest amount of -All resist, so Stan was very useful at that time. When you reach a certain amount of even more -All res, DoT damage triples, and so on and so forth. I forgot the exact values of -All res needed to get to triple or more, but you get the point, it was a useful "strategy".

Apparently though, that was just a bug. It's been fixed since then and DoTs now do x% more damage for every -x amount of All resist the enemy has.

EDIT: It works with the respective element of the DoT as well, not only with All res. In Pyro's case, Malcifer, which gives the enemy -25 Fire res, did the job since Pyro's DoTs are Fire-locked.

< Message edited by Luma -- 12/4/2017 5:39:15 >
DF AQW  Post #: 79
12/4/2017 21:53:35   
Hokura
Member
 

Well guys, how do you feel about the incoming nerf of this armor?
Post #: 80
12/4/2017 23:22:58   
JoelJ1998
Member

wait what nerf
DF AQW  Post #: 81
12/5/2017 0:19:56   
ArchNero
Member

Necro's shroud skill cooldown increasing from 11 to 30.
Post #: 82
12/5/2017 2:01:45   
Kailaa
Member

they nerfed shroud way too much i mean why 30..... why not just 20
Post #: 83
12/5/2017 2:39:37   
Greyor_42
Member

yeah.... 30 is a bit much. especially considering the fact that the resistance it gives you is no longer as high as it used to be(140% resistance as opposed to the original 200%).
DF  Post #: 84
12/5/2017 2:39:41   
JoelJ1998
Member

jesus, that's almost tripling the cooldown. That's rather absurd, isn't it?
DF AQW  Post #: 85
12/5/2017 2:46:32   
Kaizoku
Member

Make a skin for Necro and then butcher it, lmao
DF  Post #: 86
12/5/2017 10:18:45   
Baron Dante
Member

quote:

yeah.... 30 is a bit much. especially considering the fact that the resistance it gives you is no longer as high as it used to be(140% resistance as opposed to the original 200%).

To be fair though, for late/end-game players specifically, even 140% is an insane tool. It's not unreasonable to hit 46 All resistance at the max level if you want (Even more with DC and/or rares). At that point, you're taking at most 54% damage. With Shroud, that turns into you being usually completely impervious to damage while healing 86%.
Specialization can actually take that further too, but let's leave that aside and think about what that actually means.

Fear Ward has a really low cooldown. So you can basically go Fear Ward twice (6 turns of ~20% damage, more or less), Dark Intent (-35% boost for 5 turns), followed by Shroud of the Undead (3 turns of healing 86% damage). So let's put this into action. I'll take the All resistance into account too, mind.
On the 6 turns of Fear Ward, you're taking ~10% damage per turn, not including Crits. On the 4 turns of Dark Intent (Since Ward is better, and Intent overlaps with the second use), you're taking 35% of the damage.
So, while you're waiting for Shroud, you'd take somewhere around 200% damage. You then Shroud, and proceed to heal 86% for 3 turns. That's 256%. And then you cycle through it again. You should be able to even take one turn of Crits through Fear Ward there and be fine. And of course, that's not even everything Necro has. It has a small heal, and a stun to accompany it.

When it's put into words like these, it kinda shows how ridiculous Shroud really is. However, I'm not sure about the WAY it's being nerfed. It's way less ridiculous for lower level players, and this puts a definite nerf on that as well.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 87
12/5/2017 12:50:03   
  Verlyrus
DragonFable Boxcat


The cooldown increase is intended to make the skill more tactical- you may want to save it for a huge burst to basically heal to full, for example, while also retaining its unique healing effect, as opposed to making it a damage immunity or damage reduction.

The cooldown is much longer because using the skill's potential to its greatest effect has an incredible effect- which is deserving of such a long cooldown. So do you use the skill early, expecting the fight to be short, but damage heavy, or do you save it, using it when the enemy is about to blow you away and instead heals you?

That's my justification for the cooldown. Also note that the cooldown does not persist between battles- It'll be up for every fight.

As for it being not as powerful for low level players, one of the things about DragonFable is that there are relatively few incentives for leveling up- and this adding one is not necessarily a bad thing.
AQ MQ  Post #: 88
12/5/2017 14:47:34   
Hokura
Member
 

Then at least you could change Fear Ward's defenses to the MPM ones? It will still be a nerf, and a strong one, but it will gain something from it. Well, you would take back a nerf and give it a stronger one, because evading an attack itís practically always better than to take 20% of its damage, and you know, isn't Necromancer a defensive armor? Why wouldn't it have the good shield when there are more offensive armors in the same tier (2) with MPM shields instead of BPD.

< Message edited by Hokura -- 12/5/2017 14:51:01 >
Post #: 89
12/5/2017 15:20:04   
Winters Key
Member

I'd rather just have Shadow Seed's cooldown reduced to 4 turns instead of 9 in return for this colossal nerf. It would massively help the defensive playstyle of the class - you'll be able to focus on your defensive skills whilst still outputting a fair amount of damage because of the Seed effect.

< Message edited by Winters Key -- 12/5/2017 15:21:57 >
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 90
12/6/2017 11:00:40   
Hokura
Member
 

Still I believe that 30 CD is way too much, it will not be "more tactical" even in long fights you only will be able to use it once or twice in the whole fight, (60 turns of fighting is already pretty long for it's own), if you want to make it "not spammable" the why not something bewteen 15-20 CD? it would certainly make it "less spamable" but with 30 CD you are just killing the skill (and the armor) against bosses. And really, if you are going to nerf every armor after a "reskin" then please, don't make them, never again. You tried to give us a "reward" but instead you punished all the people who really liked Necromancer armor as it was, we lost more than what we won with this "reskin" named Necro Paragon. (And it kinda makes me sad, I really liked the Necro Paragon armor)

< Message edited by Hokura -- 12/6/2017 11:07:35 >
Post #: 91
12/6/2017 13:01:33   
Baron Dante
Member

@Hokura: Don't blame the reskin for that. If something is overpowered, it'll be fixed eventually. It just happens that since Verly was already fixing a thing in Necro, that was brought up at the same time.
It's not like it'll be the only class that's going to get nerfed, it seems.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 92
12/6/2017 15:41:01   
elixxon
Member

Weird... Shoud gets only on an around 10 turns CD for me....



Also I have FINALLY unlocked that darn Paragon Armor(could we please not have mazes so darn big in the future? I literally had not enough free hours in a day to finish the medium and huge ones.), and got back to grind poor ol Guffer in hopes for another Chickencow Armor(can't afford another pack of DCs for a long while) and while trying to figure out the best rotation Guffer just died all of a sudden... then next time died again... then I figured out that it was Terror. From the description I guessed it must be some unreliable ability or gets blocked by immob resist. Well it didn't. I'm starting to get why people love this class so much. ;P
DF  Post #: 93
12/6/2017 15:54:37   
Greyor_42
Member

@elixxon

the 30 turn CD hasn't been implemented yet. it's being added on friday along with the fix for the weird bug that makes it mimic your last used skill alongside its own effect.
DF  Post #: 94
12/6/2017 17:18:02   
Dark Lord Urmi
Member

ehhh trying to fix what isn't broken can really be a bad thing. even with your justification i just don't see who this is for.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 95
12/6/2017 17:36:19   
Greyor_42
Member

thing is, i personally agree that yes, there SHOULD be an increased cooldown for it. but not a 30 turn cooldown. a cooldown of somewhere around 20 or so would work perfectly fine in this case, as it would still serve as a nerf, but without making the skill basically useless even if you DID think tactically. 30 is just absurd.
DF  Post #: 96
12/6/2017 17:42:02   
Dark Lord Urmi
Member

why should it though i mean it's not like necro has amazing destructive power to unbalance it, one great skill does not break a class.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 97
12/6/2017 19:48:09   
Siedgrief
Member

quote:

. And DragonLord could only ever compete if it was <20% HP so it could go berserk mode and spam Soul, but now that it has a BPD shield instead of MPM it can't even do that any more because an unlucky crit or two = dead.


This is one of the reasons why i tried to convince Verly to change back DDS to MPM when it was changed to BPD, but since verly never changed his mind DL just cant really use that skill anymore since most of the time you are getting crited and dead, especially with bosses, where this skill should be a reliable source of Dmg. (Not everyone has DL Patience or Rage, and that should be considered)


As for the nerf on Shroud I agree with Greyor 30 cd is just too much, something around 15-20 should be fitting for what the class needs.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 98
12/6/2017 20:24:26   
Baron Dante
Member

quote:

why should it though i mean it's not like necro has amazing destructive power to unbalance it, one great skill does not break a class.

In this case it kinda does though. Used properly, thanks to it, you will heal more with it than you'd be taking damage. In a 1v1 situation against something with one element, you basically can't die.

As far as the size of the cooldown goes, I'll point at a skill on a different class that does something similar.
SnugglePanda can combine it's two boost-lowering moves to give the monster -150% Boost for a max of 3 turns. That means it'll heal you for 50% of the damage instead.
Now, there's a few things that make it worse than Shroud. Firstly, you need to use two skills to make it work. The second skill gives the monster -50 Bonus as well, so you'll actually heal less than you'd think. Secondly, In the worst scenario, Shroud heals you 40% (Assuming you have no resistances for the monster element). In the BEST scenario, Snugglepanda gets that 50%. (And due to the lowered Bonus, probably not even that) The better your equipments are, the better Shroud gets, while for SnugglePanda, it's the opposite. Thirdly, Snuggle's cooldown carries over to the other fights, Shroud doesn't (and won't, apparently).
SnugglePandas inferior move gets a cooldown of 18. I actually think 30 is pretty fair when put in that light.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 99
12/7/2017 8:57:12   
elixxon
Member

Could Inner Will get an increase in the Mana recovered?
It's such a small amount it hardly seems to make a difference, while Dragonlord, Ancient Exosuit, etc. can just go on forever in many situations, while the Necro is greatly limited by it's mana pool.
DF  Post #: 100
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