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RE: =ED= Official Tactical Mercenary Balance Discussion Thread

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9/21/2014 13:49:14   
tomskaasdf
Member
 

 Please make Atom Smasher have no energy cost and no hammer required. Cyber Hunter is the only other class that can't steal energy, but at least they have Malfunction. I don't care about Smoke Screen, just fix Atom Smasher so that they can keep up with the meta. It would be nice if it was unblockable, too.
Post #: 76
9/21/2014 14:53:30   
Mother1
Member

@ Tomskaasdf

Atom smasher has a cost because it doesn't give back energy. Also the moment you do that is the moment no Tactical merc will ever use a club because atom smasher is the only move of the skill tree that requires a club.
Epic  Post #: 77
9/21/2014 17:19:19   
tomskaasdf
Member
 

 @Mother1

If I use Battery, it's just going to get stolen. How can I even use Atom Smasher if all my energy is gone? If I use Battery after my energy is stolen, they are just going to use up their energy, making Atom Smasher useless. It's not fair for it to have a cost, when all the other classes can just steal energy without any penalty. I agree that Atom Smasher is the only reason to use a club. If it were a better skill, it could actually be worth using a club.
Post #: 78
9/21/2014 17:36:54   
Mother1
Member

@ Tomskaasdf

There are many ways to get back energy outside of battery backup.

Invest in cores such as Generator or Piston punch. Both of these give back energy and in Piston punch's case does both.

Then there is also the timing as well. Use battery backup after they used their energy drainer, or use one of those two cores to bait them into using their energy drainer than use Battery backup.

There are ways to get around energy drainers you just got to use them.
Epic  Post #: 79
9/21/2014 18:03:33   
tomskaasdf
Member
 

 @Mother1

I don't think you understand. If I can't stop my opponent from using a skill with the energy they just stole, then Atom Smasher is pointless. Piston Punch only helps if they don't Piston Punch me back. Even then, you're saying that a core is NECESSARY to even use a skill that shouldn't need any help at all. A skill that can be blocked, nonetheless.
Post #: 80
9/22/2014 12:15:24   
suboto
Member

stun grenade improves in damage by:
lvl1-2 by 30
lvl3-6 by 20
lvl7-10 by 10

The moves progression in damage needs a slight buff
lvl1-3 by 30
lvl4-7 by 20
lvl8-10 by 10
overall effect making the move slightly more useful and making it more meaningful to raise in investment more rather then just level2 or level6. this would make level3 and level7 more worth investing in. overall the max damage by the progression would go from 180 to 200 just a 20damage boost difference. reduceing the dex progression by .5 could result in dex abuse. changeing grenade like i mentioned would not result in dex abuse

Artillery strike multi move

damage progression by level is:
lvl1-4 by 30
lvl5-10 by 20

The moves progression in damage needs a slight buff
lvl1-5 by 30
lvl6-10 by 20
or
lvl1-6 by 30
lvl7-10 by 20
Overall effect would give more reason to raise multi level from 4-10 to 5-10 or 6-10 this skill needs this just s slight buff of 10 or 20 more overall damage. This is better then -0.5 support which would result in massive support abuse.

Atomic smash energy drain move

The move overall progression by level is:
lvl1-4 by 4%
lvl5-10 by 3%

The moves progression in drain % needs a slight buff
lvl1-5 by 4%
lvl6-10 by 3%
or
lvl1-6 by 4%
lvl7-10 by 3%
or
lvl1-3 by 5%
lvl4-6 by 4%
lvl7-10 by 3%
Overall this would make the move more useful for a energy drain result increase by 1% or 2% or 5% maxing it at 78% or 79% or 82% from what it is currently 77%



< Message edited by suboto -- 9/22/2014 12:47:08 >
Epic  Post #: 81
9/22/2014 14:55:06   
Bionic Bear
Helpful!


 To be honest TLM just needs a complete skill revamp. Forget making its moves more powerful, there are moves that need to be completely removed from the skill tree (hint hint field commander, stun grenade). Then those skills need to be replaced with other skills that can be used with what's already there. As a TLM your main damage will be your bot, since the skills are so useless together it's not worth investing in them.
Post #: 82
9/26/2014 13:41:14   
suboto
Member

Field commander~~> blood commander
mineral armor cost lowered by 5 each lvl: this will make this move stand out from the other def boost skills and make it more useable then just lvl1-3
atomic smash now does 85% dmg when used: this will result in rage gain if its blocked and overall make the move more usedable
frenzy now gives back hp even if blocked :will gain the %'s hp basied on primary dmg vs armor this is if it blocks. Also this will make the move more useable then just lvl1

Artillary strike:
gains +10dmg at lvl35 thats the last lvl
+10dmg at lvl37 needs to be the last level


< Message edited by suboto -- 9/26/2014 13:47:01 >
Epic  Post #: 83
10/3/2014 11:54:02   
Stonehawk
Member

quote:

Atom smasher has a cost because it doesn't give back energy. Also the moment you do that is the moment no Tactical merc will ever use a club because atom smasher is the only move of the skill tree that requires a club.


That's why I suggested Maul, it's club only and a lot more useful than stun grenade for having lower cost and ignoring some damage (and drawback for being blockable).

Plus, I suggest some changes to frenzy:
it is already high cooldown (3) so I suggest either unblockable attack instead of ignoring 10% defense OR
-1 cooldown, so it can be used more often and it can remain blockable.


< Message edited by Stonehawk -- 10/3/2014 11:58:16 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 84
10/3/2014 17:57:58   
AQWorldsFarmer
Member

quote:

I think they should bring smokescreen back since now there are no more passives


I absolutely 100% agree with you. They only took smoke out because it had 2 passives and a debuff, but now that there are no passives, I'd suggest:

1- Replace mineral armor with reflex boost (this can add a boost to the support concept)
2- Swap stun grenade for Smoke. (This will be a large step to bring TLM back.)
3- Nerf blood shield SLIGHTLY! (this will help balance the new tech builds that will possible come into play with these changes)

Reasons:
Using a STAT increasing buff for dex and a RESISTANCE (not TECH) increasing shields:
That way they can't abuse tech stats to increase smoke and surgical.
As a counter-balance this can also buff MALFUNCTION by making it critical to lower a TLM's tech.
Post #: 85
12/2/2014 2:20:53   
santonik
Member

Poison Grenade.


This can be Over-efficient. In particular, the opponents have no other defense than the HP pool. Grenade CAN do about 400 ~ 550 damage plus poison on.

Level 1: 40 Poison Damage
Level 2: 50 Poison Damage
Level 3: 60 Poison Damage
Level 4: 70 Poison Damage
Level 5: 80 Poison Damage
Level 6: 90 Poison Damage
Level 7: 100 Poison Damage
Level 8: 110 Poison Damage
Level 9: 120 Poison Damage
Level 10: 130 Poison Damage

So, the final damage may be

400 ~ 550 plus 390 = mighty 790 ~ 940 damage. This is a guaranteed hit.

ULTIMATE DAMAGE. in my opinion.

I mention this matter. The poison grenade has been designed against tanks. Grenade should not be good against high HP. Now it is, if not defended any defense. Grenade Damage should be decreased. game balance due. poison damage must be the same.

The same is also true for all other poison skills. (hunter classes)

self playing
HighSUPPORT- High HP MERC.
This has no defense other than HP. I discovered this un balance of poison attacks. try it for yourself if you do not believe.
Epic  Post #: 86
12/2/2014 3:25:43   
Ranloth
Banned


 To hit 400-550 damage, you'd need around 500-650 Base damage (it takes 85% penalty), and your opponent having no defense or whatsoever. Impossible to pull off, because both builds are wide open - attacker and defender.

Unrealistic examples won't achieve anything in terms of balance. In the same way, max Heal is OP because low HP builds get full heal off it, whilst everyone else don't.
AQ Epic  Post #: 87
12/6/2014 20:49:51   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 this class couldn't get ANY worse. I literally challenge anyone to try and think of a way to make this get any worse because it is, undeniable, the weakest class in the game due to its overcharged and under-effective skills.

Heres my suggestion: This is clearly a tactical class, given the name tactical Merc. Get rid of atom smasher and replace it with any other of the energy taking skills. A weapon requirement for this class is just insane.

< Message edited by The berserker killer -- 12/6/2014 21:27:27 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 88
12/6/2014 22:13:56   
ffeeeee
Member

They should make it less str oriented, but i got to say that the str builds are pretty powerful.
Post #: 89
12/6/2014 22:19:37   
Mother1
Member

@ The Berseker killer

The passive to active change destroyed this class this is well known. However giving Tactical merc another classes skill just because you feel they this class doesn't need and weapon requirement skills will upset balance even more.

The problem with this class is that it can no longer tank like it used to due to the fact that passives became actives, and they tried turning this class into a strength based class without a single burst move.

I personally think this class needs reconstructive surgery with fresh moves, and everything because right now it is at the bottom of the food chain even with the buff it got to Frenzy, and Atom Smasher.
Epic  Post #: 90
12/7/2014 2:18:30   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 I just went classic bulky strength build, but with less max HP and more dex/tech. My skill tree is pretty much level 3 mineral armor, max field medic, max frenzy, level 1 surg, and max battery backup. It actually works fairly well. You have way more energy than you can spend which lets you heal against heavy drain opponents, and if they don't drain that much you throw out double strikes that do a bit more damage.
Epic  Post #: 91
12/7/2014 3:36:36   
kittycat
Member

I don't know if this is a good idea, but Tactical Mercenaries should have Field Commander not buffing strength, but buffing the overall damage of any kind and +5% Crit chance for 4 turns. This allows damage to be slightly more powerful without needing to invest in a buster move.

If increasing damage output isn't a great idea, then I guess Tactical Mercenaries might need to have their Double Strike receive an additional chance of inflicting critical strikes like Cheap Shot.

< Message edited by kittycat -- 12/7/2014 3:37:11 >
AQ MQ  Post #: 92
12/7/2014 7:40:55   
Frost Moglin
Member

Tactical Mercenary NEEDS to be buffed somehow. I've tried many different builds, but I can barely win fights.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 93
12/7/2014 7:47:26   
ED Divine Darkness
Member

I think a new ability might work.

reduces targets damage output by x for 3 turns. might help tac merc actually tank better, should have a support requirement to prevent abuse by str builds.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 94
12/7/2014 10:05:17   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Correct me if im wrong...but what if our problem isn't the skills that these classes have but the stats they get when you first start off? The game is so focused on being "fair" that it starts off giving each and every class different stats (like when you first class change), but when you actually start investing in skills then your stats end up looking like another classes.

Example: If you're level 40 with at least 10 ranks on primary, and wielding a sword with al of your weapon/armor stats going +35 +35 +14, then it takes 50 strength in order for you to reach 562 primary strength. Right?

Maybe the games problem is that it shouldn't be that way. THAT is whats limiting diversity.

With that being said, what i'm gonna suggest may seem absurd but it's the best idea that I think ive had pertaining to balance.

I suggest that we stay different and our NATURAL stats, being the stats you are given just as if you were to switch classes, is what should distinguish us. Let stat requirements for all skills of that category be the same but change the system so that a Mercenary and a Tech Mage with 50+35 strength won't have the same strength. The Mercenary should have the 562, and the tech mage should only have 542.

With that being said, let's pretend that a lvl 40 base character (being just a new, fresh character) starts off with 18 stats in every category, 750 strength and 620 energy. Depending on which class you change to, 10 points will be administered to a specific category/categories.

Tech Mage: The ten points will be split between Technology and Energy.
Blood Mage: The ten points will be split between Health and Strength.
Bounty Hunter: The ten points will be split between Dexterity, Strength, and health.
Cyber Hunter: The ten points will be split between technology, strength, and energy.
Mercenary: The ten points will be split between strength and support.
Tactical Mercenary: The ten points will be split between all stats.

There's absolutely no reason for a tech mage and a mercenary at the same level, with the same stats (E.G. 1400 hp, 620 energy, 50 str, 50 dex, 42 tech and 17 support) to have the same amount of strength, res and defense.

I believe THAT is our balance problem
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 95
12/9/2014 18:41:10   
Stonehawk
Member

Tactical Mercenaries' good news:
1- Battery can be used more often (-1 turn cooldown)

Tactical Mercenaires' improvements problems:
1- Both improved moves are blockable, while most classes have strong unblockable moves.
2- Frenzy is still blockable and defendable with shields, gives a very low % to health after update and increased 1 more turn to use.

TLM's suggestions:
1- For frenzy:
1.1- I don't remember how much it drains for each level but max is 22% and 2x goes to energy. Instead, it should be 50% to health (MAX lvl) and 0.5x goes to energy instead of giving more energy than health. (battery has -1 cooldown so it makes 44% damage to energy not so needed, but TLMs sure miss a good "vampire" skill since it got so many inoffensive moves)
1.2- Frenzy should be unblockable, and animation similar to legion/exile strike skill cores (it would look so cool!)
1.3- 4 turns cooldown, for real? I think it should remain 3 turns since it can be FLAWED with high defenses, shields, blocks (oh, it could be unblockable, as I suggested on 1.2), robot skills and many other ways!

(these are only suggestions, maybe if all the changes were made, this skill would be overpowered, but some of them could be taken! Please consider it)

2- For stun grenade:
I STILL think maul should be replacing stun grenade, giving one more "club required" move (and a lot more useful for ignoring defense, even though it is blockable)

3- For Artillery Strike:
Higher support means lower defenses. Increase its damage a bit to make it usable without the need to spam support completely in a suicide build!



AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 96
12/9/2014 19:31:13   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 ^ I agree with you stonehawk. Those are good changes.

1) Make Field Commander increase Critical %. That's a perfect side effect.

2) Get rid of Stun grenade and put in the Merc stun.

3) Make Frenzy 3 turns. It can hardly ever be used at 4 turns. I say make it 3 turns OR make it unblockable. Its horrible that once you get blocked with frenzy you're basically not getting ANYTHING back.

< Message edited by The berserker killer -- 12/9/2014 19:34:32 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 97
12/9/2014 19:48:22   
Mother1
Member

@ the berserker killer

Actually the staff needs to make a new stun move of Tactical Mercenary that no one has to be honest. This way it will not only take care of the weak stun Grenade they have, but also get's rid of an overlapping skill.
Epic  Post #: 98
12/9/2014 19:59:18   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 True, a new skill is whats really needed but I don't see a new skill being made any time soon since Rabble claims its insanely difficult to even create a new core.

< Message edited by The berserker killer -- 12/9/2014 20:00:25 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 99
12/10/2014 19:28:10   
Emperor_Blitz
Member

Frenzy cool-down from 4 to 3.
Epic  Post #: 100
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