RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (Full Version)

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liy010 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/4/2012 20:15:51)

@Mr.Black Yup, 4 turns seems good. You should suggest it.

@Rayine uh, about this Shadow Aura. I think it would be nice to have it activated for 1 turn at the start of a 2vs2 match...Scenario.

2vs2. Me (New CH Revamp)+Random Class...Let's say BM
VS...2 Caster TMs. Full on Tech abuse.
The first Caster TM starts off Using a Plasma Bolt on me.
My partner uses Fireball back at them.
The 2nd TM uses another Plasma Bolt on me.
Now, with the current PA that is already activated as a Passive, I would have 22 more Resistance since I got hit twice and Max PA blocks 11 per hit (Well, I use a +8 PA but most CHs use Max...)
Now, with the new Passive, I don't get anything unless I activate it.
Now, I'd be dead or if I was still alive, I would only have like 10 or so HP.
If I activated Shadow Aura, I'd probably be KOed anyway from the 2 TMs' gun with a Deadly Aim so I must Heal.
Now I healed and I got hit again so I'm down probably to let's say 30 HP
I can choose to activate it or attack. Keep in mind 1 more turn until they Plasma or Super Charge again.
I'm going to do the "Wise" decision and activate it.
They attack with weak attacks (Doing 3 Damage) so I'd be at 26 HP.
My partner think I'm dying so he heals me.
I have 1 turn to actually do some Damage.
Now, 2 Tech abuse TMs, Both Plasma and Supercharge at their disposal. Both our Heals on cooldown. Most likely their Plasma Will be Rage. Even if we boostered Every turn I doubt I could live...
I just got wasted in 2vs2...

Think about that for a bit...Another Question, Rage ignores all Passive Armors...Does it ignore Shadow Aura?

@Drinde+ND Mallet what is this "Block Resisting" thing you guys are speaking of? Shadow Aura seems quite UPed to me because of the reasons above and the fact that it takes effect on activate (Using a turn) and after the Armor...Mind letting me in on why it would be OPed?

Finally...
quote:

Cold Fusion (ultimate for Cyber Hunters)

Unleash a blast of pure energy that manages to ignore 10% of the targets resistance and
defense while also allocating 20% of it to health.

Attack Type: Hybrid (energy and physical)

Animation: The Cyber Hunter smashes their claws into the enemy and manages to maintain a
cold burn onto their body. (the cyber hunter runs up to the enemy, holds their arms out
like massacre, except their arms and hands turn electric blue, and cuts the enemy 4 times,
each time hitting at 15%, 20%, 25%, and 40% for a total of 100% damage. The first hit is
fast, the second slows, the third slows even more, and the last is like building up
energy for one last, super smash.

Progressions are much like Super Charge, except the attacker attacks with 50% energy and
50% physical damage, while ignoring 10% defense and 10% resistance.

This ultimate is progressed with Support and Technology. It progresses 2 points for every
4 technology and support gained , starting after 22 technology and 20 support


Stat Required: 20 Strength, increases in increments for each level obtained.

(20,23,26,29,32,34,36,38,39,40)

Energy Cost:

(29,33,37,41,45,49,52,55,57,59)

The damage progressions are just like supercharge

(this skill will increase at an additional 4 tech, but cannot increase any
more until the player adds 4 points into support.

Example:
+4 tech (increase) +3 support and +4 tech (no increase until support is added another point
, after the point is added to support, the it will increase twice because of the additonal
4 tech added.


Another example:


+39 technology and +44 support (now divide by 4 since it progresses by 4 for each)

10 and 11

The skill will increase 10 times, but since technology is missing another point, then it
must be added until the skill can increase more.

This keeps the skill from being too OP, but if Hunters looked at it right, then they
can see a possible way to make this skill VERY fun and over powered.


Ok first see if you can find what's wrong with this before reading the spoiler

spoiler:

So this skill is like Supercharge but only ignores 10% and gains back 20%? You nned a high support so you can't just tech spam so it's actually weaker than SuperCharge. It's missing 20% or perhaps more special effects...



rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/4/2012 20:31:47)

@liy

Sh Au i already active. :-) it is active for 5 turns, then shatters and must be on cooldown for 2 turnw, on which after the cooldown it is automatically recast. You do not need to cast it yourself O:-)


Also please read my whole post :-D It explains the logic behind it. I need a bit of help with the progressions :-/



drinde -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/4/2012 20:38:51)

Maybe change Shadow Aura to require one turn of activation by clicking?



rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/4/2012 20:42:22)

It'll make it UP. Remember that I took out a way to revive resistance, I nerfed strength and EMP, and I allocayed more support attacks and made some hybrid moves. Lowering Sh Au even more will make it mostly useless.



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/4/2012 20:47:37)

@raynie It's already going to last the entire battle unless you face another tank so I don't see a big deal behind having to activate it. If you lower the attacks needed to make it go away then you wouldn't need to activate it.



rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/4/2012 20:50:52)

I was thinking of 2v2 and Jugg ;-) If there is a way to make THOSE without activate, then sure. 1v1 can be activate :-D



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/4/2012 20:56:01)

@raynie Once again it will probably last the entire battle unless you fight tanks. Even by the fourth turn someone will be dead, whether your side or theirs. That's assuming they even target you first.



rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/4/2012 21:02:08)

Hmm. You may be on to something O:-) ok...it must be activated now. Thanks for the help! Any regards for Cold Fusion?



Joe10112 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/4/2012 21:10:37)

@Raynie: For Shadow Aura (Plasma Aura, forgot "Technical" name), I'm in favor of just having being a full-game passive.



rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/4/2012 21:17:50)

To fix some issues. Sh Au is activated now by a hit. It lasys for 5 turns. It shatters at 5th turn ane must be reactivqted ahain. Rage does ignore Sh Au like the Super Charge ignores resistance.


EMP scales the same. It is just on tier 3. Venom was buffed by a point and lost 3 needed energy at max. Sh Au now scales at max of 25%.



drinde -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/4/2012 21:20:32)

Let me get this straight first... your post is kinda confusing. :p

Cold Fusion:

Physical and Energy Damage

Requires STR

Improves with Tech

Drains HP

Ignores Defense %

Am I right?



rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/5/2012 2:02:23)

Cold Fusion deals Physical and Energy damage. It requires 40 strength at max to stop tank builds. It is a Hybrid Ultimate, so I feel it needed a unique progression and modifier. It improves with 4 tech and 4 support. So for every 4 tech and 4 support that you manifest, it heightens even more. Better?



Arevero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/5/2012 2:14:08)

@rayniedays56

Dealing PHY and ENG damage, i don't quite get that part. Also, say if i have 44tech, and 32sup, the dmg increase will be 44 divided by 4 and 32 divided by 4 which adds up to 19dmg increase. Is that the case, I just need to know what it actually is if i'm wrong xP


@Trans

I need a recap on Conduction on the takeaway scale, it's a fixed amount and since it doesn't affect technology, i think the numbers need to be higher than a decent malf we see currently.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I still like technician back, but i think Shadow Aura is still pretty decent, but if Sh Au takes too long to implement, give us a temporary technician first, then go on implementing Sh Au.
I am starting to feel much better that CHs are finally getting a positive attention after so long. Thanks guys :)

And yes, I'm with Joe, Sh Au should be an entire-passive activation.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/5/2012 2:28:10)

They are higher than Malf already, -16 at Lvl 10 which is -64 Tech at least which Malf can do if you have it maxed and about 120-140 Support instead, whilst Conduction doesn't need a stat to improve with. So really, what I'd like with the skill is to be level scaled too, so every Level or two, it'd go up by additional -1 which seems logical since skills such as Plasma Bolt or Fireball already do that.
So don't base it on my numbers which I've put since they are just to show the suggestion. ^^

Raynie, I'll give you detailed feedback much later because I have long trip home ahead in about hour or two so I'm in a big hurry. But I think it's gonna be good. ;)



rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/5/2012 4:12:07)

Yes yes :) And I have been at work, just to clear the reasons why I wasn't at home xD


So, I was thinking of implementing these skills for the classes :)
****************************

Cyber Hunter:

Shadow Aura (replaces Plasma Armor)
Cold Fusion (replaces massacre)

Tactical Mercenary:

Fury (replaces field commander)((a defense and resistance debuff (very much like a hybrid debuff that affects both defenses)))*weaker*
Atomic Blast (replaces surgical strike)((instead of tech, heightens with dexterity))

Blood Mage:

Blood Frenzy (replaces bloodlust)((a hybrid of reroute and bloodlust))((gives health when you strike, EP when you are hit))*weaker*
Meteorite (replaces Super Charge)(physical version of Super Charge)(improves with support)



Nerfs made in whole:
Massacre
Surgical Strike
Super Charge
Plasma Armor
Blood Lust
Field Commander

Scaling changes on Firebolt and Plasma Bolt
Static Charge buffed to 37%
Frenzy Buffed
Skill Tree revamp on Blood Mage
EMP moved to Tier 3 on Cyber
Venom Strike Buffed and Nerfed (gives 12 DoT but with only 50% more damage)
Bunker Buster scaling fixed
Adrenaline revamped (takes enemy rage and gains you rage)
Hybrid Armor back to +11 def OR res
Healing scales with Support again (+1 heal for every 6 support gained) (maximum heal for Level 35 capped at 44 on level 1)
Multis no longer do 75% damage on two enemies
Rage is fixed



dark warrior31 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/5/2012 4:25:31)

TLM:Smoke Grenade

It works the same as Smoke screen but it does lower damage and requires 2-3 turns until it can be used.
in skill chart the posion is like this
1-1-1
0-0-SG
0-0-0
0-0-0



cammph -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/5/2012 5:51:52)

Cyber Hunters need to be reworked.

The CH class is supposed to be a mix between a mage and bounty so where does plasma armour come from? That is a merc characteristic.

It is unfair that CH's can remove so much energy using a EMP grenade - tech mages assimilation has a cool down of 3 and deducts at most 12 energy points.

Static charge is dependant on strength, which allow CH's to have tank builds (due to plasma armour) along with high strength to replenish energy levels easily. Bounty Hunters need to think about using massacre as it consumes a lot of energy over other abilities yet Cyber Hunters just replenish themselves and can use massacre without much consideration.

Plasma Armour allows the Cyber Hunter to massive add stat points to dex combined with Shadow Arts make it practically impossible to melee attack and damage. The fact that each attack drains little energy on a CH and yet they can replenish massive amounts of energy due to static charge make it completely unfair.

_____________________________________________________

On another note - Mercs should have full +12 armour not +6/+6 as it prevents mercs from going for a particular build. If mercs stay on +6/+6 then tactical mercs should also be +6/+6. Either that, or mercs should have a +12 def and tactical mercs should have +12 res.

These are just my thoughts but the CH class definitely needs to be reworked.



cammph -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/5/2012 5:54:02)

Thats why CH's should have energy ball or technician instead of plasma armour.

Having the +11 plasma armour at the start of a match that lasts the entire match is unfair.



Midnightsoul -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/5/2012 7:13:25)


Raynie, the way u design ur moves are a bit too complicated, especially for the devs and mods. I like your idea, but something more reasonable would be what Depressed came up with (or mine, hehe).

shadow aura vs plasma shadow and domination (because i mixed plasma armor and shadow arts for something less OP)
cold fusion vs shockwave

The reason I like your ideas is that it's more related to mves not relating str but...u have seem to have forgotten...coldfusion s ounds like a mage move. You do not want to forget that the point of the cyber hunter is that it fights with its mastery of its gear (as the bounty hunter is an expert in blades). If you look at the moves I came up with or depressed's, it's not so magical, lol. Yes, thecyber is known to fight like a combo of a mage and bounty but it actually doesnt use magic, it uses science.


My ideas for class moves

-change massacre's scaling per lvl, it is too strong, especially at high lvls

TLMs need their ultimate move as a physical version of surgical strike but it doesnt lifesteal , it ignores defense instead with its animation as a nuke flying down on your opponent.



rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/5/2012 7:50:10)

Cold Fusion wasn't meant to sound "magic" like :'(


I based it off of the idea of cold fusion, a psuedo science where the atom is able to "fuse" and create energy at relatively cold temperatures. With Cold Fusion, you actually are "able" to do this, allocating your wrist blades to "fuse" the enemies atoms together and hurt them badly. The electric blue light will be like it is: sciency :)

Basically the Cyber activates cold fusion, which makes their wrist blades light up blue with the electric current going through them. The Cyber then hits the enemy 4 times, each time "fusing" the enemies atoms until they manage to create a wave of energy.

Get my process? :)



PivotalDisorder -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/5/2012 8:49:00)

I am gonna start reporting those spam posts at the start of every balance topic.

if the staff want to see that same idea, they can go find it in it's original topic, very annoying seeing certain members spam every new
topic with the same ideas just so they can say "that was my idea" if it ever makes it into the game. no one cares whose idea it was.

seriously, kids trying to be cool....

ON TOPIC
any chance of an update on the balance tracker's results?

I don't really wanna post any more balance ideas until I know which classes are over/underperforming



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/5/2012 8:55:13)

That is a nice concept Raynie, yet I recall all sciences on Delta V centered around plasma science. Fusion is a doable concept for science and attacks and that, but it really is a bit impractical. All apparatuses used for fusion are quite large. Cold fusion chambers are often as large as a Roman statue. To make a device as small as a baseball bat and expect results on the same scale is not too sensible. I like the idea as well, but explaining the logic behind it will eventually be excessive (especially when people ask why the radiation from decay is not affecting you). It still is a nice idea though, but going by practical plasma science as seen throughout EpicDuel would be likely more accepted. Plasma is basically ionized gases (gases that freed their electrons and nucleus) from adding energy to them. Plasma Bolt for example is loosing a charge that scores the air and ionizes it. That is why the "air" turns blue, because of sparks of oxygen or other common gases... igniting really. Myself I do not follow plasma science, but this is what ED chose, as strange as it might be.

Sorry for the scientific talk.



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/5/2012 9:24:14)

@void Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think we even have cold fusion working reliably so how do you know exactly how big of a container it fits in? Also, it doesn't give off radiation either I don't think. Also, I'm pretty sure Earth technology is closer to figuring out how cold fusion works rather than using plasma as a weapon. The only reason ED has that is because the plasma is a side effect of exposure to varium. ED is advanced in tech if you didn't notice. They have things like planet size forcefields and satellite lasers, is it so hard to accept that perhaps they figured out cold fusion and made it work in a simple process? Or are you more willing to accept that people have access to giant space lasers that they use in battle and use to hit only one target(because I highly doubt a space laser is that accurate)?



PivotalDisorder -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/5/2012 9:29:49)

we have mastered space travel, the colonization of planets etc but it's highly unlikely we have improved upon the science for plasma or cold fusion? lol

just to clarify, I mean that no technology is beyond the realms of reasonable when we are so far in the future, AND we have encountered alien races.



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/5/2012 10:00:59)

@ND,

Like all nuclear fusions, there is radiation...

See neutrinos, neutrons, and gamma decay, you will find what you are looking for.

By the way, cold fusion has been downing since the '80s. Not only is the process not reproducible, but not generating thermal energy is fantasy.



Back to balance, I support the said suggestion of editing the Cyber Hunter's EMP Grenade. Some suggestions were given such as swapping with Assimilation or Overload/Plasma Bolt.



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