RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX

RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (Full Version)

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Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/5/2012 10:45:29)
Question, what this have to do with Balance? Explaining skills doesn't fit here, focus on Balance since thread is for this purpose.. e.e Raynie, apologise but I'm still not home yet so no feedback.. But I like new BL, I'll explain later why and give a lot of feedback on it! :D Blood, fact skill may be complex means nothing. If they built a game from nothing, skill won't be hard and it's just a suggestion. :) As long as creative, it's good! :D

Midnightsoul -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/5/2012 18:56:49)
@raynie then idk... >_< not saying that ur ideas should be like forsaken and banished and stuff, lol @ontopic TLM Nuke (new ultimate move) A physical version of surgical strike, but instead of life steal...it ignores 30% defense Give Tactics and Technician to TLM. Remove blood shield and field commander. Remove Reroute and add a new passive called "Strategy" Strategy All casting moves (like field medic, artillery strike, atom smash...but NOT like mineral armor) will become boosted with a percent and also lowers energy cost. lvl 1: 1% lvl 2: 3% lvl 3: 5% lvl 4: 7% lvl 5: 8% lvl 6: 9% lvl 7: 10% lvl 8: 11% lvl 9: 12% lvl 10: 13% so let's say my artillery strike was 70 damage...if i had a lvl 7 strategy passive...it'll do 77 damage and if it costed 30 energy originally, it will now cost 27 energy after the effect. (Special MoveStrategy) - Enemy's Defense= total damage Blood Mage (I dont know what to name it, but I want it to replace bludgeon) (Idea based somewhat on AQW's healer class with the move, heartbeat) The percent of health u have leftover will determine your damage outcome. (current HP/total HP Effect) * Weapon Damage +10= total damage The move is like bludgeon except that it is also determined by how much health u have left. Unleash (Ultimate move for BM) Warm up: 0 Cooldown: 2 Improves with Support/4 Requires 30 strength step 2 Energy cost: same as the regular supercharge (You have to first burn a turn by toggling it on. THe move will give you a buff first that only lasts for two turns increasing your damage by 15%, but incoming damage by 10%) (Think of Soulweaver from Dragonfable where you use the final move...I think it's called SoulSynch) Apply Mutation on yourself for two turns giving you a red aura which starts to transform your DNA. After transformation is complete, you must use it right away or else you will be back to normal and have to toggle another mutation. The user only loses energy after unleashing the beast (a giant, bloody wolf) Blood Rain (replaces plasma rain) Perform a ritual showering special blood onto you and your opponent. Improves with Dexterity Requires 20 support step 2 Basically, half the damage heals you and the other half hits your opponent.

Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/5/2012 18:59:29)
You know what I like about Blood Commander? Even though it is just a change of Field Commander, it uses multiple effects. Just like ultimate skills. In my opinion this is pretty neat idea and gives the user more functionality for their energy.

Mr. Black OP -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/5/2012 20:51:18)
Heal needs to be improved with lower levels. At the lower levels it is COMPLETELY useless. 10 health at level 1? At that point people are doing that in 1 turn.

kittycat -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/5/2012 21:05:00)
It is better to start low, then scale much more differently such as.. Level 1 - 20 HP Level 4 - 22 HP Level 7- 24 HP Level 10- 25 HP Level 13- 26 HP Level 16- 27 HP Level 19- 28 HP Level 22- 29 HP Level 25- 30 HP Level 28- 31 HP Level 31- 32 HP Level 34- 33 HP

liy010 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/5/2012 21:29:47)
@Kittycat Yes, that is a great idea. Low levels will then have a reason to heal and can use the heal more strategically (Right now Level 1s are just about who gets first strike and who can block) This will also close the Gap more between levels so that a level 29 may* have a chance to beat a level 34 *May means extremely low but might be still possible :3

FrostWolv -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/5/2012 22:36:59)
quote: @ bloodknight997 TLM Nuke (new ultimate move) A physical version of surgical strike, but instead of life steal...it ignores 30% defense I guess it will be OPed

rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/6/2012 0:04:19)
Naw. With everyone using High Dex with the exception of Strength, 30% really isnt that threatening. Think if this. My defense is 29-35+5+1, making def 35-41. So lets say the Tact Merc has a Nuke doing 77-82 damage. It hits with 80 damage at my Def of 39. So the 30% ignore will cause my Def to drop by 12 pts (11.7) so the damage will be 53. However, please remember this is with an OP build and that 5/6 classes have an energy drain, while thee is also defense buffs used by 4/6 classes while the other 2 have armors.

Mr. Black OP -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/6/2012 0:07:05)
^ It would actually be pretty cool if it poisoned for like 6 damage for 2 turns or something instead. Just fits the "nuke" theme better because of radiation and everything.

Midnightsoul -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/6/2012 0:41:23)
@Frostwolv And supercharge ignores 30% resistance...LOL But Nuke cant lifesteal unlike Surgical Strike...but it can still reduce enemy's rage. @on topic I edited my post above for blood mage :)

Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/6/2012 3:53:07)
I like the new SS for TLMs! :D They will replace Ultimates for Evolved Classes so this is a good start but we don't have to base it between lifesteal, rage reducing, or ignoring defences - there could be other effects such as immobilising; puts enemy's items (everything but boosters) into cooldown for 1 turn. So actually, you have advantage here at cost of probably one effect such as Rage reducing. It does sound powerful so lifesteal would be a bit lower to compensate for it. There's many ideas you can think of, let's be creative! ;D Unleash has quite nice effects, that's what I like since you will deal more damage but are more potent to incoming damage so it's more risky and strategical skill to use. :P Don't bother with numbers if you don't have to, just explain skill to us and maybe give examples as numbers would be up to the Staff - whether they wanna change it or not - so yeah. :) Raynie, as I said, I like "Blood Frenzy" since it kinda fits BM theme - put bigger emphasis (%s) on HP regen on Strike and some power left for EP on defence. So you get still high HP as you should get with normal BL, but a bit lower so you can get EP back when you're striked. quote: Scaling changes on Firebolt and Plasma Bolt - It should a little, and perhaps make EP cost same as Firebolt since it's 29 and 33 (Bolt to Ball) Static Charge buffed to 37%- No objections! :D Frenzy Buffed - Small buff yes, but not to make it too big. Perhaps by same % as SC was buffed or a bit less (favours Str builds). Skill Tree revamp on Blood Mage - Would be good, some skills are all over the place. EMP moved to Tier 3 on Cyber - Objection! xD You'd have to putrequirement on it resulting in more power to EMP to recompensate for having requirement and Tier 3 skill (more power). Venom Strike Buffed and Nerfed (gives 12 DoT but with only 50% more damage) - It's fine now. It's fair towards Toxic Grenade since Venom will deal more damage on initial hit than Toxic. It can miss, yes, but damage if not missed is much higher and not locked to Physical. Bunker Buster scaling fixed - They did actually mention that in the Livestream and will be looked at already. Adrenaline revamped (takes enemy rage and gains you rage) - Don't think it needs a buff, unless Mercs will be still underperforming a little. Hybrid Armor back to +11 def OR res - Then that'd be called Mineral or Plasma Armor. It's split because it's Hybrid and it's fine now as it is since you don't have to waste a turn or lack in one defence. Healing scales with Support again (+1 heal for every 6 support gained) (maximum heal for Level 35 capped at 44 on level 1) - Was mentioned in Livestream too, they are considering putting some scaling back. Multis no longer do 75% damage on two enemies - Also mentioned in Livestream, they might've overshot it with nerf so buff can happen. Rage is fixed - YES! Support must have bigger impact on it, especially the Regen which is affected by Support but too little thus favouring Glass-cannon builds. That's feedback from me, sorry if it ain't too long. :P

Midnightsoul -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/6/2012 6:40:03)
Scaling changes on Firebolt and Plasma Bolt - Finally...no more casting OP'ed-ness... Static Charge buffed to 37%- YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Frenzy Buffed - Good! EMP moved to Tier 3 on Cyber - Um...sure...idc much. I'll still find ways to kill everyone >:D Venom Strike Buffed and Nerfed (gives 12 DoT but with only 50% more damage) - Well...good for me...I guess... heh heh heh...eh...nvm... Bunker Buster scaling fixed - Ok... Adrenaline revamped (takes enemy rage and gains you rage) - Now they are OP'ed... Hybrid Armor back to +11 def OR res - NOOOOOOOOOOO It was fine...but Mercs now have to waste a turn again Healing scales with Support again (+1 heal for every 6 support gained) (maximum heal for Level 35 capped at 44 on level 1) - My focus build has been revived even more... Multis no longer do 75% damage on multiple enemies - I think it should be 90% Rage is fixed - Finally...

khalidon5000 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/7/2012 3:57:54)
Why is it that Blood Commander and Intimidate scale differently meaning that when both are maxed field commander gives 10 more strength points then intimidate takes away? I'd rather they scaled the same. quote: Now they are OP'ed... What? Hybrid Armor should be kept the same because with the new skill Blood Commander if you want to utilize that skill from the beginning as most 1v1 Strength Mercenary Builds do you may also have to waste another turn on Hybrid Armor.

Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/7/2012 5:11:57)
quote: Why is it that Blood Commander and Intimidate scale differently meaning that when both are maxed field commander gives 10 more strength points then intimidate takes away? I'd rather they scaled the same. My bets are that some stats are more valuable than others, as well as one boosting your own stat and one taking it away from the enemy. If you look closely, Malf and Technician do scale in same way but break apart at Lvl 8 where Technician pulls ahead as well as cost less Energy. Reason for this is, probably, buffers don't do damage at all so they get more boost and cheaper Energy since you lose a turn of damage. Where as debuffers actually do deal damage and put the status on which gives them advantage hence lower scaling and higher EP cost. :)

khalidon5000 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/7/2012 5:56:17)
But Blood Commander has a percentage of HP Regain, I think that makes it just as valuable.

Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/7/2012 6:03:54)
But look at skill tree of Mercs, it's considerably weaker since other classes have other passives such as BL and SA (HP and blocking), Reroute and DA (EP Regen and damage), whilst Mercs have passive Armor and Rage-improving skill which is useful only on certain enemies (depends on their defences) and HA is also split. It was a buff to the class which is fair. Maybe other buffers don't have an additional effect like BC but their skill tree is strong enough to compete already whilst Mercs weren't. :)

ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/7/2012 10:03:21)
It's because Buffs are supposed to be more powerful than nerfs. I believe Rabble directly stated this once before. This means if you get nerfed then you have a very good chance of countering it with your own buff. Because if it is was the other way around people wouldn't bother with buff skills because they would just nerfed away entirely.

Zeoth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/7/2012 14:07:03)
^ What ND said. Anyways most don't use sefensive buffs anymore due to the fact that azreal Borg will just knock out such a high % of it it's utterly ridiculous. Anyways I really like Raynies ultimate sug for Ch but that's all I care to comment on until I read things again

liy010 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/7/2012 17:02:47)
How about...Buff Static to 55% but put it only on Primary which means the highest they can go is +36 with a Sword (It gains about the same as 15-18+34 Weapon so Average STR) this could stop STR Spamming... quote: ^ What ND said. Anyways most don't use sefensive buffs anymore due to the fact that azreal Borg will just knock out such a high % of it it's utterly ridiculous. Anyways I really like Raynies ultimate sug for Ch but that's all I care to comment on until I read things again If I may object, [Rusted] Assault Bot takes away just as much. There are more people using Assault than Azreal

ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/7/2012 19:50:35)
@liy Probably because Azreal Bot is rare and Assault Bot isn't. If Azreal was always available then more people would use it since it affects shields, buffs and Bio Borg special.

Luna_moonraider -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/8/2012 15:42:29)
well yeah i m back after not posting for hmm lets see 3 week or maybe more idk XD been super busy XD. ok here is what i notice when i played 1v1 as a support build most ch do not even use thier emp on me(idk y they could have killed me in like 4 turn if they did but they did not use it even ch now a days are weird) so i think moving it to tier 3 or maybe tier 2 will be good as most of the ch dont even use emp when they can use it so wats the point of having it at first tier when they dont even use it. BH most balanced class right now imho. just that poison still has its high requirements. imho they should either remove it or lower it. 42 tech for max poison is really not worth it. CH dex build are very annoying and are common in both 1v1 and 2v2. str builds are also common but dex/tank build are the most annoying as they can basically make the battle very very long(yes i know atom/asim and emp kills them but still yeah it takes tim eto kill em). skill wise imho ch do not even deserve to have emp at tier 1. well since the devs will not remove plasma armor they should either move emp to tier 3 or 2 to make it harder for ch to heal loop. Mage nothing much to say bout mages. hmm maybe they should make the multi back to improving with tech and put back the str req on plasma bolt. but i dont think this will happen as it would make caster mages weak again. blood mages the recent nerf to bm was gr8. but 1 thing u would notice is that bms are becoming more and more like bh. it is like bm=bh. mercs the buff on merc were gr8 it made the class balance and way better than tlms imho other than the constant craving for energy. mercs are energy hungry class without energy they cannot do anything as simple 47 emp can kill them. blood commander rawks love it and it really made the old beta str merc build come back to life again. Bc-strike-strike-rage zerk. Tac Mercs well imho i rather stay a merc than upgrade to a tlm now since the buffs of mercs. tlm are like the uped class now yes they have reroute,frenzy,atom and mineral armor but the other skill are like insert some random bad word . stun grande is weak useless and does nothing much for any build of a tlm. yes fc helps with str build but tlms only have ds and frenzy to use when the use a str build. blood shield let me tell u blood shield is really bs i know blood shield short form is bs but yeah really blood shield need to be replaced or buffed. fc needs to be replaced too. tlm really need a debuffing skill give them intimidate or something, remove fc and replace it with intimidate. remove blood shield and give them technician or energy shield. give blood mage blood shield and buff it for havens sake. Now for stats: Str most overused stat dex people spam it and hope they get lucky and block like hell tech steroids for robot and to buff deflection chances support most under used stat since the heal nerf. heal should improve with support but yeah guess that will nvr happen.

Power Of The Chosen -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/8/2012 21:01:23)
i feel like ~~static charge~~ defence matrix is OP, most people already have a lot of of stat modifiers, especially the full blown varium players who can get like 150 stat mods, and all they have to do is like put 1 point into the skill and the whole battle changes. another skill that i think is pretty OP is massacre, you can drop em down to like 10hp, while you have like 80hp, then all of a sudden they use massacre and you lose. massacre especially feels OP on cyber hunters because most cyber hunters use that one skill that give energy back so you cant even EMP them cause they will just get back enough energy enough for massacre, and most of the time you cant even kill them fast enough before they use massacre because of how much defences they have (plasma armor, ~~static charge~~ defence matrix, and the excessive amount of stat modifiers).

Arevero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/8/2012 22:36:37)
Static charge...OP? I am a Cyber hunter, and as one i think i know what SC is like, by far it isn't even close to being 'OP', it can't even give us enough EP to heal. Not to mention it has to be maxed for just 13-16ep regain, and it requires a lot of STR. Massacre is powerful because it doesn't have any specific specials, hence dmg increase pays off for that. stat modifiers needs to be taken, and base lv stats needs an increase.

Archlord Raistlin -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/9/2012 4:34:06)
Who is balancing this game via hidden rates and %'s??? Just had a battle with a tank 32...higher defenses (40's) than my partner and me. He blocked 5 static charges but one static critted. Nothing else was blocked...just the static atks. This is likely IMPOSSIBLE, at best improbable. Manipulating the skills and hiding behind the LUCK factor is BS. First you lower static energy regain, then you chip away at the effectiveness of even hitting someone with it? My dex is 86, not horrible, but the fact that no other atks are blocked does make ya wonder. Sure it was one battle, but really... 5 blocks of one skill ppl constantly complain about? hmm... Once again, this method of behind the scenes balancing just FRUSTRATES everyone. Making good skills ineffective is bassakwards...keep good skills effective. Even at 85%, multi is now a marginal skill for the cost, except of course for the 1v1 players...gawd forbid anything changes for them... I am beginning to think this is hopeless... smart ppl going against the nature of everyone who likes this game is getting old. Leave the skills as originally intended and ENHANCE others to address balance issues. A skill is OP or abused? ...raise the stat requirements, or the cost, to discourage the abuse. Don't just increase the blocks and deflects to make the outcome "seem" fair... Really...you can't get 6 ppl in a room and chart out all the classes and come up with different yet balanced skill sets for each of them? You can't determine a cost/damage ratio for all skills requiring energy? You can't predetermine possible basic stat abuses and make it totally impossible to abuse it effectively? You don't think raising the upper end progressions to 10 or 12 stat points wouldnt totally prevent the average player from abusing any one stat at the severe cost of something else? Really??? C"mon get it together...

Power Of The Chosen -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/9/2012 7:14:37)
@Arevero quote: Static charge...OP? I am a Cyber hunter, and as one i think i know what SC is like, by far it isn't even close to being 'OP', it can't even give us enough EP to heal. Not to mention it has to be maxed for just 13-16ep regain, and it requires a lot of STR. Massacre is powerful because it doesn't have any specific specials, hence dmg increase pays off for that. stat modifiers needs to be taken, and base lv stats needs an increase. lol whoops, i ment defence matrix not static charge.. :S and you know, in my opinion massacre should have a change to be blocked, its a melee attack and all melee attacks should have a chance to be blocked while all ranged attacks like supercharge, and surgical strike should have a chance to be deflected.

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