RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (Full Version)

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Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/14/2012 1:28:49)

vexas They didn't nerf the bot yet, however when the next update comes it will be nerfed. But on another note how often do people actually fight these bosses compared to others? The answer is simple not that often. However, how often do people fight against each other? almost every day and the masses (Especially the ones who would win a lot) don't like the idea of losing to someone that shouldn't stand a chance against them because of a bot that has the power of the delta vault. Others didn't want to change to focus builds to compete and finally the people who loved gamma didn't like the idea of a free (by choice) Bot is an overpowered version of a bot they spend their money to buy.

The admins read these forums to satisfy the players and the players wanted the bot nerfed so they could have their builds win again without worry of in many people words an overpowered version of the gamma bot kicking their butts with 60+ damage on rage.

Also personally you don't need the bot if you use the right build. I was able to beat Admin 11 as a blood mage with a cyber hunter partner with the strength build and this was before the bot came out so you argument is a weak one at best.



theholyfighter -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/14/2012 2:30:26)

Maybe one of the reasons they put this bot is because people will get Infernal Android due to its high damage. Before, Assault Bots are everywhere which makes malfunction and smoke screen useless...

Got an idea about 5 Focus builds:
Intro: For now, If you're a level 35 player, 5 Focus builds basically look like this:
quote:


health: 110/109
energy: (Rarely put points in)
str, dex, tech, support: 45

The build above was a standard one, UNLESS their health drop below 95/90. Then they can't survive in battles for long, unless they can start a healing loop which is IMPOSSIBLE due to their low energy. Therefore, I recommend, if the devs are going to nerf Infernal Android, then shall there be a rearrangement to Focus?
Perhaps
quote:


20 Stats: Robot Damage: 6
25 Stats: Robot Damage: 12
30 Stats: Robot Damage: 18
35 Stats: Robot Damage: 24
40 Stats: Robot Damage: 30


Later on, when the level cap is reached to (let's say) 40, then they may use the current Focus system.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/14/2012 2:41:31)

^ This because there every other bot other then the rusted assault bot cost varium, and the bots tended to favor the varium players. The staff also wanted to add some variety as well as balance with the bots so they made this bot for the masses. However, they could have used used a different effect or made the effect work differently.

Here is a good example I could think off. they has the ability of the delta to go in power, however instead of using it in an offensive ability the power could have been made into a buff like the bio borg where it can boost normal attacks for a few turns gradually like the vault then after the final turn the ability goes away. Also to make sure it wouldn't be abused make it unable to stack with strength abilities such as field commander and blood commander. I think that would have been a nicer idea, and best thing is the chances of it getting nerfed aren't as great as this nerf that is coming.



sky222 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/14/2012 7:51:58)

Anyone else find it unfair that apprentice staff is +15, light blades are +13, and Basic Club is +12?



rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/14/2012 7:56:01)

Exactly.

The apprentice staff gives +15 damage and adds +3 tech


The light blades gives +13 damage with no modifiers.

The basic club gives +12 with no modifiers...


Something is a bit...off here.



8x -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/14/2012 8:01:57)

Infernal Android should only get 1 extra damage per turn.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/14/2012 9:38:57)

8x They are going to nerf the bot during the next update along with 'tinker' with every other bot as well that was made thank to everyone complaining about the infernal android being overpowered. However only gaining 1 extra damage once every turn is too much of a nerf to be honest. While the bot is right now overpowered, we don't want the bot to be underpowered to the point no one actually uses it. But then again I doubt anyone would complain if this bot is underpowered since is some people's words 'it is a non varium bot'



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/14/2012 9:58:43)

Raynie, look at their skills too. Mages are likely to be Caster early on and skill are made so + they have lower Base Strength too. Mercs are offensive class when you look at skills and so are BHs. And them 2 have higher Base Strength too which also makes a difference since TMs have higher Tech. It's not off, they balanced weapons early on when they looked at lower Levels and TMs were falling behind a little + BHs and Mercs were too strong I believe.



ScarletReaper -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/14/2012 10:13:18)

@raynie Look at the win loss records between levels 1-10 for all the classes and then tell me why techmage still loses even with those boosts. When I recently made my f2p mage for fun, I lost 80 percent of my battles till level 10. Take away those boosts and it'll go to 90-100 percent. Basic club does less damage because mercs have the highest starting strength. mages have the lowest, hence ours does more damage.



sky222 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/14/2012 11:47:27)

TM's are 5 pnts of str behind merc and 2 behind BH
1 point of prim dmg = 4 str
Also TM have the highest starting def/res
and @above stop embarrassing urself on the forums



priest_hidan -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/14/2012 14:46:30)

leave the bot as it is if you want to defeat CH and BM... they just tank like no other. at least we can defeat them now. every one of them has the same strategy.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/14/2012 17:03:05)

^ It is already too late the infernal android is going to get nerfed weather you like it or not. But now thank to all the complaining they are going to tinker with all the other bots as well. So don't be surprised if your current bot get nerfed because of this. Hopefully they leave my favorite bot alone or on the better cause they give it a buff. but there is only a 66% chance that they will do either and a 33% chance it will get nerfed.

Oh and not to sound bitter, but if your favorite bot or bots get nerfed it is the fault of all those who complained about the infernal android because otherwise I doubt they would have even came up with this idea.



King Helios -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/14/2012 17:10:58)

Hoping Bio Borg is buffed.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/14/2012 17:13:54)

We know Assault and Azrael will be crippled in its effect, a bit weaker than 80%. That means Azrael will probably still affect Bio but not as much, although it shouldn't at all. Other thing should be Yeti being unblockable on it's 'eating' attack since it's once per turn already, I believe.



The Hidden Legend -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/14/2012 17:24:30)

Scarletreaper I have a techmage who is level 20 and from levels 1 to 14 his win percentage was above 75%and his staff was level 4 aux level 1 and no sidearm. And I didn't use boosts on him and he does not npc. And even now his win percentage is slightly lower than 75% percent it's because he fights bounty hunters with light mecha armor and he has none(I bought him rusted bot instead lol wish I had not)



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/14/2012 17:26:23)

Trans If that were to happen I would be extremely upset because no one ever complained about the bots until this new one came and because of all that complaining the backlash effect happened. But if we are lucky maybe they will leave those three alone (I am including the rust bot since it is the same as the assault bot in every way other then it's attacking style)

Plus for this entire war anyone can say the best bots to use for it were the gamma bot and the azreal borg since Gamma has two attack that could go around whatever buff the mechachilds used as well as working well with whatever defense debuff was used, and the Azreal borg with it's ability to shatter 4/5 of any enemy shield and make the defense debuffs more effective.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/14/2012 17:32:33)

Mother1, and this is confirmed. Effects will go down and players wanted it to for a while to preserce Balance. What's use of debuffs if Bots makes them useless? Same with Shields and abusers abusing them (such as Str abusers go with Azrael to cripple people's Shields). Face it, it's true since 80% is overkill.

Wait for update from Rabble, he'll include details in DNs.



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/14/2012 17:33:22)

@mother The fact that Azrael Borg effectively negates the majority of a shield is going to be a balance problem, especially when combined with high strength enemies using the bot just so you can't protect yourself. Personally I find nothing wrong with either Assault Bot because you have to give up a turn of attacking to use it in the first place. But Azrael attacks the enemy and removes part of their shield thus giving damage and a potential for increased damage. If you want someone to blame, then blame the str abusers who use that bot more effectively than they should be able to with little to no Focus.

And whether we want it or not, we need balance in this game. It's PvP after all. It's not fun playing a game where you stand no chance unless you have specific gear for a specific build in a specific class and right now the Infernal Android is one of those specific gear pieces and Azrael Borg is just too powerful for a damage heavy build.



King Helios -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/14/2012 17:35:47)

^Azrael's Borg does like 3 damage on attack.

I vote for Bio Gear to go rare.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/14/2012 17:50:14)

The ND Mallet guy the assault bot's affect is the opposite of the azreal borgs which means it removes 80 percent of debuffs. Plus don't forget the unlike the assault bot and rust bots the Azreal borg like the gamma bot is a perma rare item which means no one else can get this bot ever! unlike the assault bot and rust bots since they will be available for all players until said otherwise.

Oh and really the azreal borg does a massive amount of Damage? I use this bot quite often, and to tell you the truth the Azreal borg isn't used nearly as much as the assault and rusted assault bots. Plus you know how much the azreal borg does for me most of the time? as King helios said 3 damage on it's special unless the person is weaker then normal, or the sting manages to get a crit and even then at best it does about 18-21 damage. as for it regular attack it is all based on tech and focus and even with my best builds I only deal at best 25-30 damage with it unless I crit so how is that overpowering? Plus unlike with the assault bot where you are left with a negative amount of a debuff you still have 20% of your buff left unless you are playing 2 vs 2 and the other person takes 20% of that.

Also lets face it as I stated before more people use the rusted assault bots and assault bots more then the azreal borg because

1 they are still available
2 they are PVP drops
3 Players are more concerned about repairing debuffs then destroying buffs




fhiz -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/14/2012 17:51:46)

Am I the only one who thinks your focus level should affect the effectiveness of a robot's special? What I mean is, to get the full 80% debuff of the assult bot, you should need 5 focus. 4 focus would give you 70%, 3 = 60% or something along those lines. It should go the same way with azrael's borg and Bio borg's special will deflect more damage the higher focus you have. I don't know what to do about pyro fly though. Maybe a higher focus would give you a better chance of disabling a move your opponent has invested heavily in instead of a level one overload every time.

Whatever, it's just something to think about.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/14/2012 18:01:41)

Fhiz if that did happened I wouldn't mind as much since I actually use a focus build (Meaning it wouldn't affect me as much if not at all) Also if they did to that with the pyro fly it would be an improvement to it's special but at the same time even if you did to that, you may not get the move that you want since sometimes you are after another move.

But if they were to do that something like that I would give the thumbs up. It is a whole lot better then just outright nerfing/buffing a bot because people consider it weak/strong. Maybe someone should talk to one of the code junkies about that idea.



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/14/2012 18:02:46)

@mother I never stated that it ever gave massive damage, just increased damage potential. Face it, 80% of a shield often gives an extra 11 damage per attack of that type. When you use Assault Bot you'll probably get back 4-5 def/res which is nothing compared to Azrael. You also have to consider that Azrael is the only bot in the entire game that effects any other bot. You can use Heart Attack to nerf Thorns from Bio Borg. Either way, Azrael is more effective than Assault Bot because you still get damage and you also get to do more damage next turn against a lowered shield. And whether it's rare or not should not be an excuse for it to be so overpowered and abuseable nor should it be an excuse for anything.



King Helios -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/14/2012 18:06:10)

More like 8 for Assault, but point taken.



ScarletReaper -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/14/2012 18:08:14)

@sky222 stop being a troll and grow up. Can't even have a conversation about something without thinking you are superior to people?
@the hidden legend really? in 1v1 you had a record that good? Or are you refering to 2v2 where your partner can pick up the slack? Cause my 1v1 record at level 15 is 34-89, but my 2v2 record is 115-58 so yeah, I was reffering to 1v1



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