RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (Full Version)

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rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/18/2012 0:10:00)

That sounds fair to me Jekyll.

It is less than the level difference.


And having a lower level player doesn't automatically mean you are doomed.


I played against two level 35 Strength BMS with a level 31 partner who was a BH.

It was tough, but me being a level 35 CH and my partner managed to beat them while still having higher health than the BMs. Yes, we were both Tanks (I know, a tank BH?!) But it worked fine




shadesofblue -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/18/2012 0:22:53)

@Jekyll
It must be because you're a better and experienced player than the other two level 35's :P I think they determine 2v2 pairing first by experience, then by wins.



Jekyll -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/18/2012 0:28:58)

I'm sorry, but I don't think it is fair. Not to me and not to the lower-leveled player. Yes, we may have a chance of winning, but it is a terrible scenario to be in and it can be completely avoided. I try my best to keep my partner alive, heals and buffs, but he simply cannot compete with the power of 2 level-capped players. I just want a fair fight where everyone starts off on the same footing.



shadesofblue -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/18/2012 0:31:55)

Which is why 2v2 level range should be reduced to 4.

EDIT: Got a screeny of it :P We lost that battle btw. And it completely disproves my theory about EXP, then Wins; I'm not even a Warlord, and I'm pretty sure one of them was at least a Commander. Here



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/18/2012 0:51:52)

Shades of blue the reason why they most likely don't reduce it is because if they did it would take longer to find battle for people. Epic duel is a PVP game and what is the point of lowering the range only for you to have a harder time finding people to battle? Don't forget not everyone is going to be within your level range, plus there will be people fighting other duels as well so that makes the pool of potential opponents even smaller.

As for you Jekyll it is just as rayniedays56 says just because you get a lower level doesn't mean you are screwed. heck a few hours ago I had three matches with a lower level player on my side and I won 2 of them (The third we lost because the system had to disconnect me when we were fighting two tank cyber hunters and I was on the winning end) but the point being is that depending on who you are partner with can make the difference. Just because someone is the same level as you doesn't make them good for that fight. I would rather have a 31 level BH by my side who can actually do something then a level 35 character who can't do much of anything.



shadesofblue -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/18/2012 0:59:13)

4 levels should be a large enough pool of players, but if it isn't, I'm sure Rabble or Titan can find a way to make it so that two level capped players can't be on the same team.



Elkaus -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/18/2012 4:03:12)

So sick of people having lower support than me going first and then critting me in the same match...
Support needs a big boost



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/18/2012 4:14:10)

quote:

Trans, I don't ignore anyone's opinions for one and you are incorrect about my post as usual.

That what was the comment with Trans having Malf (TM) and Wootz being CH and having EMP? Sorry but I see no connection with EMP since Tech/Res does NOT affect it.. Or was it biased because he's a CH? Besides I have Physical weapons too, I can crush through Energy Shield when BMs or BHs use it against me, I can get through majority of builds using Focus 5 TM with Gamma Bot. Mind you, my Physical attacks are Primary and the Bot so they are both Blockable + deflectable special.
My point is, your skill is overkill if you want Tech boost ALONG with Resistance Boost (on top of Tech) and 15% regen when hit. I don't mind Energy Version of Reflex WITHOUT Res boost like you said. For once I'd agree with you since Tech doesn't raise blocks unlike Dex and wouldn't render the regen useless.



ReinXI -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/18/2012 5:14:45)

@Hun kingq ~ honestly... on the topic of wishing plasma cannon would be easier to use multiple times a fight? Yes I would love that as I am a Blood mage who uses
A 5 focus tech build utilizing plasma cannon. BUT your idea of a reverse energy reflex + energy shield WITH re-routs energy gain is just absurdly overpowered.
a maxed out reflex with around 45 support is about 5-6 defense so that would equal out to probably 7-8 resistance combined with the fact energy shield even if halved
would still be around another +25 resistance so that would be a temporary +32-33 resistance with energy regaining on hit combined with the fact I normally have
28-34 +5 +1 resist with my build that would total up to be about 66-73 resistance that would almost negate every single point of energy damage from ANY SOURCE.
especially since even high dex overloads at about 130+ dex are only what maybe 70 damage? so even on a crit or a rage they might still only do at the most 20 damage.



Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/18/2012 9:15:11)

Trans, the connection is the fact that EMP takes energy and since the Blood Mages can’t have reroute they need an energy shield that not only boosts tech to override malfunction so plasma cannon can be used at its full potential or be able to better damage on high resistance players. The percentage scaling is better than just 15% at any level and if they have high dex even with your physical attacks the damage will be low.

ReinXI, the skill would only last 4 turns do the calculations, would you be able to regain enough energy to use Plasma cannon multiple times in a fight, no but sometimes 25 points from a energy booster is not enough so just imagine your down to 0 points of energy because of energy drain within 4 turns you gain enough to use a boost and if you time it right the next round you can use Plasma Cannon. Tell me this if you get malfunctioned and you put on energy shield does your tech increase so you can use Plasma Cannon the next turn before they realize to take your energy, no.

Trans, ReinXI and the rest that do not understand the increasing resistance part of it, it will increase tech thus increasing resistance but when it increases tech it will increase resistance just as good or better than E shield. You will not see +25 or any plus besides resistance you will just see the increased resistance.

ReinXI
“Well I honestly love plasma cannon along with the fact I think its also a love hate relationship ( missing a crit on a much needed time xD ) but nowadays sometimes its not even worth bothering... mainly because you can either rage it ( if your energy supplies last long enough ) and do good damage or if you get a crit great damage. Or you can open it up at first and hope for that crit.. then fail and hit a 22 on cyber hunters
and anything with say 30+ resist.”

Here you are complaining about the low damage of Plasma Cannon due to high resistance players and suggesting a buff. With this new energy shield it not only gives you that increase damage but gives you back energy when hit not much. Just imagine you have the shield on when they do massacre and if you survive massacre or berzerker then you can heal that is if the damage is high enough.

The programmers can make it where it benefits the Blood Mage not make them overpowered.



Luna_moonraider -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/18/2012 13:07:46)

oh looks like the hun king fire lord has risen once again making the balance discussion tread a war zone again.



ReinXI -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/18/2012 13:19:45)

yeah but to avoid the inevitable shelling of people from the mods.. I just wont respond!

but yup.. those str BM's they need to be put down a peg or two... or maybe 3? same with CH obviously..

heres my idea for balancing stats... if your stat goes over say... heres an example

strength above 70 ( enhancements included ) your chance to hit drops by 5% for every 10 points more so when they go for that 120+ strength yeah they can hit high but that + -25% chance to hits WILL effect them for obvious reasons

and the same could be for piling up other stats

dex above 70 resistance + -3% per 10 stat points so at 120 thats -15% resist

tech above 70 physical defense + -3% defense per 10 stat points so 120 -15% defense etc etc

support above 70 damage -5% from all sources per 10 stat points

I say 70 because 70 ( or 80 whichever ) seems like a good stopping point as it gives leeway to have more "specialized builds" for people who want to favor one stat over others

as well as leaving it easy to make a balanced build

but if you make it to where piling up a stat to ungodly amounts actually affects you negatively.. well then I bet you will see a drop of people using 60+60 str from enhancements...

and I agree that fireball needs to be switched to support or something.. its really irritating running into double STR Bms in 2v2 -.-



AQWPlayer -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/18/2012 13:29:02)

Decrease potential stats, not their effectiveness. Giving stats a debuff will merely make people turn to 5 focus and keep winning as much as they ever did.



donnymillermiller -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/18/2012 13:56:16)

all of you trying to debuff bm dont. i mean i can win them with tlm not jking but i still agree tlm needs a buff because tlm can barly win anyone whos varium and i think you should decreece the reqierments on shadow arts because there sup would be lower and that would make them go second and they would have to chage there builds around and i think tlm should have intimidate instead of field commander i think this would help tlm alot agested and those other classes useing str do any of you agree its a little buff. tlm try to drag out the battle thats what they try to do but they cant because of str builds but with intimidate they can drag out the battle long eneof to win plz support all of these



Steel Slayer -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/18/2012 15:36:56)

donnymillermiller, I'll agree with most of what you said. Blood mages are fine, any class can make a bulid to beat a str BM, all it takes is some creativity. Besides, in 2v2 str bm's are almost helpless anyway, they have such low armor they get spiked down in 2 turns.

I'd also agree that TLM could use a bit of a buff, but I dont think Intimidate is the way to go, it would just make them more tanky, when IMO their problem is damage output, not defense. The only spike moves they have are Double Strike(which requires alot of points into it to be really useful) and Surgical Strike, which cant even be used until 4th turn. I'd say drop Field Commander and either give them back Smoke Screen, or, since they are supposed to be Tactical MERCENARIES, maybe give them Berzerker? Either way would give them a viable option to being Poison Tank.

Oh hey, for those who dont like the EMP cybers, there's 2 easy ways around them, ill use spoiler tags for those who dont want build suggestions
spoiler:

1-Just bring some energy boosters. Easy, cheap, and they REALLY hate having their EMP's nullified like that. 2-Use a high-energy build. They will only EMP you if it will actually stop you form using something they dont want you to use. IE, if you have 45 max energy and a 90 damage PLasma Bolt, they will EMP you real fast, if you have more like 90 max energy they wont bother, since you can still hit them with it after. Hope this helps you out.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/18/2012 15:45:13)

Steel slayer as much as I hate to say this it is been said that if TLM want smoke back they will have to give up reroute. Also if that happened then CH and any energy draining class would just EMP them to death before they could use Smoke. I could see it all now and then people will be complaining even more about how they are getting EMP'ed to death by the cyber hunters which I will admit is extremely annoying especially on the first turn if they go first.



heroquest -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/18/2012 18:13:35)

hi guys someone here?



fhiz -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/18/2012 18:53:36)

I've been patiently waiting for energy draining to be removed, but my patience are running low. As a tech mage I am forced to rely on my energy more then most, if not all other classes. Since the staff did some balance changes to "encourage"(force) tech mages to rely on there spells rather then weapons, then they need to balance energy draining so that every good build isn't ruined by a couple emp's. Although I wouldn't mind if energy draining stayed in the game if the staff was inclined to make it possible for me to use an effective build that doesn't rely on energy.(support buff hint, hint.) I tried strength yesterday and that was a disaster. Focus worked alright until the infernal android was nerfed.(not a complaint. It needed to be nerfed.) and aside from strength, support, and focus, all I'm left with is a caster build of either the dexterity or technology persuasion. Which is completely fine because I really like my various caster builds, but not when I get emp'd or atom smashed five times per battle.


Well, there's my little rant. I could go on a lot longer, but it will probably upset plenty of people as it is now.



Steel Slayer -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/18/2012 20:31:32)

quote:

Steel slayer as much as I hate to say this it is been said that if TLM want smoke back they will have to give up reroute

Mother1, where did you hear this? Not doubting you, but this makes no sense. Cybers have debuff and energy regen(malf and static), mages have a debuff and TWO regen skills(Malf, reroute and assimilation), BH and BM have debuffs and energy regen(ok, reflex boost isnt great regen, but its still there), TLM is the ONLY class with no debuffs at all. I dont see how reroute has anything to do with that. I really hope thats not the staff's excuse for not giving Smoke Screen to TLM.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/18/2012 20:55:47)

It was said by the balance team. either smoke or reroute had to go and the chose smoke anyway that is what I read on the forums. Honestly I would like to see TLM get a debuff back because as you said they are the only class without one, and how is that fair or even balanced?



ScarletReaper -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/18/2012 21:11:51)

I can agree about one thing with hun. Nerfing a class should never be a first choice. Just like back when tlm had smoke and technician, I agree that it was too powerfull, but the way it got nerfed into oblivion made me extremely unhappy. Now before you go saying it's just because I wanted to continue being overpowered, remember that I am a guy who switched from cyberhunter to techmage because I found being overpowered as a cyberhunter extremely tedious. I guess what I am saying is please don't repeat what happened to tlm. Went from my favorite class to my least favorite even behind regular merc.



Steel Slayer -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/18/2012 21:42:16)

Yep, TLM got nerfed into the ground. 1/6/12 update, they lost Technician and Maul. They were fine at that point, not really OP at all anymore. But, alot of the high level people still played them, so they LOOKED OP, so in the 3/2/12 update, they lost Smoke Screen and became completely broken. Field commander just isnt worth wasting a turn on most of the time, thats why they replaced it on Mercs. Blood shield is an OK replacement for Technician, since it lasts 5 turns and you can frenzy the health right back anyway. But Stun grenade is junk for tactical, it only does maybe 50 damage with a 30% stun chance, doesnt fit in TLM tree at all. Would maybe fit a little better if TLM had some way of reducing physical defense though.......but anyway, if the devs dont like smoke, what do you think about my idea of giving them berzerker?



shadesofblue -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/18/2012 22:03:30)

^Sticking in Intimidate and taking out Field Commander or Frenzy is probably a better idea. (Preferably Frenzy). Currently, many of the strong builds use a lot of STR (STR BM, STR BH, STR CH), or are dependent on sufficent strength to win; if TLM's can nerf STR, then they will be considerably better.



Steel Slayer -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/18/2012 22:42:10)

Shades, why would you take away Frenzy? Its the one unique thing Tacticals have, and saved me from death more times than i could count when i was TLM. I have 2 problems with Intimidate on Tac, which are-

1- They alredy have enough defensive skills, IMO they need more offense to balance them.
2- 2 other classes already have Intimidate, no skill is on 3 classes right now.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/18/2012 22:49:26)

Steel slayer the TLM are also the only class that has the toxic grenade which is not only unblockable but does more damage per turn then even the bounty and cyber hunter's poison attacks that can be blocked.



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