RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (Full Version)

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ForTun3 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/27/2012 11:44:54)

i was going to say the passive armour should replace the energy shield skill whatever its called...

i would definitely rather have deadly aim how interesting... lol

EDIT: heres yet another thing

ok so say im a BM vs a merc i have PC which is e type and raises with tech right... which mean i have high res and lower def...

the merc has bunker which is p type and rises with tec so he has high res and lower def too... (this is how my builds are just using as example)

so when the merc hits BM hes going to do more dmg (im talking even b4 PC nerf) because he has high tec i cant get as much through

i think they should be the opposite to each other as in PC should raise with tec being e dmg and bunker should rise with dex being p damage i dont know makes sense to me :P
or the other way around if that balances better? i could imagine that would mess with builds a bit... but it would be interesting i think



shadesofblue -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/27/2012 12:08:35)

quote:

skill tree for CH now:

1-1-1
10-1-1
0-6-0
0-7-7


Just a general idea for those dreadfully suffering

I dunno this seems to be better:
04-01-03
10-06-01
00-01-00
00-02-10

This way you don't have extremely low health and can heal, unlike Blaze's build. Plus you can EMP Loop with this build, which is stupid because apparently that's what they were trying to nerf <_< Make up the low damage (level 1 Malf, level 2 Mass) by using high STR.



rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/27/2012 15:16:12)

I use


5-1-5
7-8-1
x-4-x
x-1-5


with a High Tech 5 Focus.


And guess what? I can still EMP loop, draining 43 EMP per 2 turns. Hmm...Looks like static charge wasn't a problem. I purposely EMP loop now.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/27/2012 15:17:46)

Heal AND EMP loop. And you still regain less EP than before which makes it harder to loop for extended period of time.. -.- EMP + Heal loop is even worse, it's not just EMP loop on its own since it'd be pointless.



rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/27/2012 15:19:53)

Heal Looping is a lot harder, I admit.


BUT


I have 67 EP now, which makes it...momentarily easy to heal 3 times, at 45+45+45.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/27/2012 15:25:19)

Good. Purpose was that SC was must for all builds and they had base EP to start with, CHs that is, and now they should train it if they want more out of it. It was to purposely destroy tanks who looped either or even both w/o really training their Energy but relying heavily on SC.
Also I sent you a message whih you will find interesting via DM.



rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/27/2012 15:35:24)

Still...


CH is getting pretty boring. I might try a bounty again :)



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/27/2012 15:36:49)

It's not boring when you know how to make a creative build. It doesn't have to be limited to training Plasma Armor or SA/Massacre. Many other possibilities you could experiment with. ^^



steven11113 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/27/2012 16:20:24)

I think they should change back to Raw damage for static charge but nerf it 1-2% when u static into ENERGY
So it would be like:

  • Lvl 1: 14%
  • Lvl 2: 16%
  • Lvl 3: 18%
  • Lvl 4: 20%
  • Lvl 5: 22%
  • Lvl 6: 23%
  • Lvl 7: 24%
  • Lvl 8: 25%
  • Lvl 9: 26%
  • Lvl 10:27%


Or Option 2 is make a Minimum Energy gain per static if successful hit like 5 Energy



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/27/2012 17:22:45)

Steven11113 if it went back to raw damage then people would go back to abusing it again and continue to abuse it. Also here is a little something else. quite a few CH users were wanting the Pyro fly's ability change because players who used it took out their static. If that doesn't tell you that this class rely's too much on one move then the others then I don't know what is.

Trans most CH are only complaining as I see it because as a couple of people said already they rely too much on that one move and didn't want to invest the energy to use other moves and tank up.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/27/2012 17:25:48)

Rabble said that if it'll need buffing then it'll be done so, for now change was made and they need to gather data to see if they are performing fine and balanced or UP. Besides change mainly hurt tanks which abused SC the most, whilst balanced/Str-focused players were slightly affected since they can deal more damage and regain significantly more EP; not to forget, CH are Hunter class so they are Strength-focused still like their Bounty counterpart but Energy-focused instead.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/27/2012 17:35:09)

^ I know this, and this was why most people changed to CH. I have an alt CH and I can still win without using Static. People wanted to tank up, and with the default energy and static they could still use powerful moves while being a tank. It never really bothered me when I was this class since I used a strength focus build with this class. However, the only thing I can agree with them with is that static is almost worthless against tank players or people who power up the defense is the primary form of attack on CH.



Blaze The Aion Ender -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/27/2012 17:36:33)

@shadesofblue
I was putting a general build idea, just for those struggling



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/27/2012 17:40:14)

That's true with tank characters, way to solve it is put minimum EP limit which would always grant you some EP. I thought of 2 EP for Lvl 1-3, 3 EP for Lvl 4-6, 4 EP for Lvl 7-9, and 5 EP for Lvl 10 which would mean it'll always grant you some Energy. Since players usually have Lvl 6-8 SC, that'd be 4 EP granted which means they'd have to deal 13ish damage to get that from normal SC w/o limit. 13 damage is possible versus tanks since it's usually in low 20s or mid 10s so it works out best. So always 4 Energy at least, possible to do more + it makes it good for classes that may not rely on Strength that much but other stat. Every little helps!



kittycat -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/27/2012 20:56:07)

Well I'll go off-topic here, but BHs that smoke and massacre emphasized really needs to be hit by a few touch-ups from the Dev's.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/27/2012 21:06:09)

Kittycat BH are one of the most balanced classes in the game. So far since I have been playing this game ever class has either received a buff of a nerf due to being unpowered or overpowered. BH is the only exception so far.



kittycat -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/27/2012 21:15:14)

Well I guess they have been left alone but its powers of Smoke+Massacre is absurdly formidable.



rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/27/2012 21:21:42)

Yeah @Mother 1


Bh are sooo balanced.



139 HP, 75 EP, 6 smoke max Shadow arts and 7 massacre wont do any damage.


See my sarcasm?



shadesofblue -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/27/2012 21:36:12)

I honestly don't see why we need a Balance Thread if the Dev's don't use it :3

EDIT: On a second thought, the game IS balanced right now because most battles are decided by who goes first. Or who gets luckier. Or who uses more STR. STR pwns all xD



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/27/2012 21:44:37)

Trolling doesn't help either. Did you know that Bludgeon was implemented because of this thread? Or passive HA that was split? Not mentioning the EMP and Heal loop on CHs was from various Balance Threads around in GD and here, or Str BMs. These changes ARE based on our feedback and we all try to be one community not try to be harsh towards each other..

Raynie, BHs are dealt with with a Shield (Reflex/Matrix/debuff of Bot/passive Armor) and Smoke is harmless. Each class but BM has EP draining skill and even good Assimilate can destroy Massacre because they Smoke and then Mass (so Assimilate and gone). Since 2 classes have EMP grenade, it's even easier and TLMs and Mercs can use Atom just like TMs go with Assimilate & BMs can make up for it in damage + unblockable attack (as well as BL). Also the build you gave and judging on skills, they will suck in defence so that's another thing to look at since they can be countered with any shield or one EP draining skill. Str BHs are known to be strong, Devs do know about it but aren't out of hand like BMs were so it's not that much of a problem really. They will take care of Str BHs in due time, or perhaps changing diminishing on Strength will fix that really.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/27/2012 21:57:16)

Raynieddays56 I never said it wouldn't do damage, however it isn't unstoppable. I played these types of BH and beat them with my tech mage build. You just got to know what to do to counter them. If they have exact or close to exact energy an EMP atom smash or Assimilation will deal with it.

Shadow arts increase block chances not give 100% chance of blocks. For me use your gun, aux, or unblockable skills if that is an issue. Also since you are a CH defense matrix or a use of the assault bot will counter these.



shadesofblue -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/27/2012 21:59:36)

@Trans
xD 1)I always feel like you and Mother1 are harsh towards me.......2)I try my best to not Troll. 3)I can already think of a bunch of things to say about BH's and Bludgeon on BM's, but I think I'll keep my thoughts to myself in case it sounds troll-like.



AqworldThunder -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/27/2012 21:59:54)

There is no need for this board, they designed the classes well from the beginning. My friend M9.0 EarthQuake is a non-varium mercenary and easily can top the charts with his amazing build. He has a better win/loss rate than me and I'm a varium player and I'm a cyber hunter, so NO cyber hunter isn't overpowered and you are making it weaker. Stop making every class weaker, It's not the class that is wrong it is YOU. Make a better build, believe it or not you may have to do a bit of math to make your build. The only class that was really ever truly OP was tactical mercenary with smoke screen, in the last update you took +1 resistance from my Plasma armor and that ISN'T cool. Are you making the classes weaker so we will spend varium to change classes? And you keep putting mutating armor and weapon etc. So in reality the EpicDuel team is either trying to milk you for money or is listening to a bunch of people who don't think about there builds. I could make a account today and give it any class and get it to number 1 on the leader board without much of a sweat. Mainly because I think about my builds for longer than a minute, I consider my enemies and what to do if they hit me to a certain point of my health. So, what I'm trying to say is don't believe a person when they say a class is OP without proof, I think you made Blood mage under powered because I have beat several of them without much of a fight and they were a few level's ahead with varium and things like Delta Knight and the Vindicator staff equipped with a decent build. So my suggestions is to make Blood mage a bit higher in a few stats and put Plasma Armor at +11 and if you can't do that then just step away from the classes and focus on bugs and other technical problems EpicDuel is usually constantly facing. Believe it or not, you can't all get a 95% win rate.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/27/2012 22:03:58)

BH's issue is mainly Strength, am I right? And Smoke + BL + Mass going together, right? What's a good way to nerf people who abuse it but not affect anyone else? Slower progression on Strength, like +1 more on all levels for Strength to give you +1 more damage. That'd make noticeable difference + affect every other Strength abuser. Simple change, no? And we're dealing with ALL abusers! :3 Am I right?
BM and Bludgeon? Nerf Bludgeon and you affect TMs but if BMs are troublesome with it then it's their Strength.. Wait. Look just above this sentence. Yes! I just solved the issue of Bludgeon being a problem! Yaaaaay! \o/



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/27/2012 22:11:38)

aqworldthunder You might be correct on this, however people care more about winning then testing builds to see if they do good. If they see a build that is a winning build or good one they will copy it since you can see your opponent's build.

I remember when I first saw strength BM back when the Azreal promo was still out. They weren't as many then, but eventually a few weeks later they started popping up since either people were losing to them and wanted to win so they took this build, or they like it and took it.

The same could be said for the high tech Mercs. I remember making this build a few months before the war and no one was using it. I got complement on it being a good merc build, and I continued using it. About a few months later when I stop using it I see many cheap knock offs of this build running rampant.

So what I think they should do is make it so people can't see the other person's build or put the option so the player can choose to hide their build. Because lets face it this is how the Str BM thing became a problem looked up their opponent's build saw it was good, and then copied it. Same with the high tech merc build I used back before the war. If people can't see the build the other person is using they won't be able to copy it, and will have to think of their own builds to use.

Shadeofblue I am not trying to pick on you. I am just stating facts I know which most of the time are against what you are saying. Besides a good debate is one of the many joys in life.



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