RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (Full Version)

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NDB -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/1/2012 23:46:18)

quote:

also with that ability ppl could never rage


There's a 3 turn cooldown and even at max, it would still be unlikely. Also, you can't always predict when the enemy will have Rage, so you won't always use it before the turn they will have Rage, which would reduce the most Rage points.

Plus, Intimitate is way more overpowered then reducing Rage.



shadesofblue -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/1/2012 23:57:17)

TLM's actually seem to be one of the best classes now, second only to BM. I don't quite think they need a buff......yet.



DesertMarine -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/2/2012 0:08:56)

I have to disagree with your choice of "best class", shadesofblue. Right now BM are definitely not the best class after the damage on Fireball was reduced. I'm seeing a lot less of them, and TM and BH seem to be rising in popularity. I'd say TLM's are still the underdogs these days, although not as much as Mercenaries, so I'd agree with NDB. I have a TLM myself and a rage reducing skill would seem like a reasonable change.



shadesofblue -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/2/2012 0:12:59)

I'm pretty sure BM is still the most common class, although you're right; BH's are becoming VERYpopular these days. As for TM's.....not so much. And every TLM I meet mows me down, whether in 1v1 or 2v2, and the majority of the community seems to favor the idea that CH's aren't underdogs, so TLM>CH>Underdog's - Mercs??? (In my opinion)



NDB -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/2/2012 0:22:48)

Yeah, they can beat CH, but I am a BH and I beat TLM almost every time I fight them. I use the old Smoke/Massacre strength build, and by the time I make it to Massacre, I usually already have Rage. After I do Massacre, the TLM will most likely heal, if they haven't already. At this point, I just Rage, which ignores through Mineral Armor, and bring the TLM down low enough to be killed on the following turns. Either that, or they die. Many times, the TLM will use Atom Smasher to prevent Massacre, and I will Rage Smoke Screen and, again, kill them on the turns that follow. Basically, once a TLM has recovered from Smoke Screen or Massacre, the BH will just Rage them, automatically bringing them down and putting them at a disadvantage, especially since the BH would've gained a lot of health from Bloodlust.
As for BMs, their turn sequence is more or less like this: 1.Gun (with Deadly Aim bonus), 2.Bludgeon/Fireball, 3.Bludgeon/Fireball, and end it with a Raged Gun. So once the BM has run out of energy and the TLM actually stands a chance, they Rage.



shadesofblue -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/2/2012 0:28:31)

^O_O I didn't know BH's could beat TLM consistently :P All the TLM's I'm facing either have 5 focus, 25-30 +5 +10 Defense, 31-38 +5 Resistance, and 18-22 STR, or they have 21-26 STR, 24-29 +5 +10 Defense, 32-39 +5 Resistance (No 5 focus) :P



NDB -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/2/2012 0:38:55)

If your trying to say that TLM's win because of how tanky they are, I disagree. A TLM's defenses are what causes the enemies Rage to speed up so fast in the first place. This is what Rage was made to do, but it just completely ruins the TLM's strategy. Usually, a TLM would hope to last long enough for the enemy to run out of their most powerful attacks, and then overpower them because of their tankiness. But with Rage on an enemies' side, the TLM will have to last a long time until their outlasting tactic works. With the skill I suggested, TLMs will be able to postpone the enemies Rage by at least 1 turn, so they will be able to do something about the situation that they are in, since TLMs are almost always going to be losing in the beginning because their builds don't usually involve strong starts or fast kills. Also, it will most likely only be 1 turn because TLMs have to spend most of their upgrades on Mineral Armor, Reroute, Frenzy and Blood Shield (for unlocking), and Field Medic and don't have enough upgrades to MAX this skill. Even at 75%, which is MAX, and you used it when the enemy pretty much already had Rage, it would be logical to say that their Rage will be postponed for 3 turns, which isn't enough for the TLM to loop, unless they Stun. Overall, I think it's a balanced skill that is only a buff when used in the right way. It just makes their builds more strategic.



doomturtle -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/2/2012 1:01:05)

Iv noticed that smoke massacre bh, battle mages and caster tech mages are what people are mainly using right now since ch and blood mage got nerfed. I think massacre needs a nerf but since that will also affect cybers I think they should get a static charge buff. And for tech mages I don't think they are op. caster mages are useless without energy so just take away their energy to beat



rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/2/2012 1:15:14)

I can take smoke massacre bhs, caster tms, and super tank TLMs.


Still have an issue with Strength BMs. Why?


24-29+35+10 gun doing 50+ damage and healing them superbly :/



Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/2/2012 2:16:29)

Mr. Black OP, Isn't that what the community wants over and over again to
Nerf the Blood Mage Class and like the staff told everyone before, if the
community wants then the community will get. So why stop at Plasma Rain?
Why stop at Fireball? Why stop at Plasma Cannon? Let's go ahead and nerf
Bludgeon. Since everyone agrees that Blood Lust works too well, that needs
to be nerfed and who cares if it affects the Bounty Hunter Class. Plus less than 80%
win rate is still too good Blood Mages should get less than 70% win rate.

At lower tech the Bunker Buster gets more potential damage than the Plasma Cannon
so to balance them further, Bunker Buster needs a buff, and Plasma Cannon needs
another nerf because 37 damage is still too powerful.

Bludgeon at max should only get 10% more damage.



kittycat -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/2/2012 2:44:17)

@Hun Kingq - 10%, I'm sorry but it should be that's just too little.
If you want it just 10% extra damage, then it should be complimented with EP removal skills.



Silver Sky Magician -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/2/2012 2:48:13)

^

Hun Kingq's being sarcastic. Don't bother addressing him.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/2/2012 3:24:57)

The plasma bolt needs to be nerfed to a more reasonable power level. It is hurting the lower levels when it is fully powered, mid level are getting 2 turned with max malf then max plasma bolt, and at the higher levels it is more powerful then supercharge with is crazy. I am a TM and when I use it at level one I sometimes take 40+ energy from a full varium enhanced player with decent resistance. It seriously need this nerf and please don't turn change it's power to dex or you will have OP TM all over the place.



rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/2/2012 3:36:01)

@mother 1


I highly agree. I use a 5 focus high tech build (31-38 resistance) with a level 5 Plasma Bolt.


I can usually rage the plasma bolt and due a tone of damage on the caster TM's, with them having easily 35-42 resistance.

However, a slight nerf to it would be to make it cost 33 EP once more and to make it scale by +4 tech instead of +3.



THEN it shall be on PAR with Fireball and will even stop those darned casters. :/



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/2/2012 3:44:02)

Rayniedays56 Next to the old str bm TM casters where the ones I hated next. However with that nerf it won't stop them from using that build, but it will ease the pain of it.



RageSoul -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/2/2012 3:47:03)

@Raynie
Nah , giving only33 EP cost is better rather than slow the progression along with it since we ( Caster TMs ) barely block in every fight .



Naruto Uzamaki -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/2/2012 4:11:10)

ever since the devs thought it was good idea using some skill as improvement on tech its been nothing but hell to me every time i am fighting tech mage and merc they have over 100 tech and makes my malf useless i would like if put back way it was before for techmages



rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/2/2012 4:23:32)

O_o Before Techmages? You realize Techmage is a starter class, one of the original?



Silver Sky Magician -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/2/2012 4:42:11)

^

You missed the 'for'



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/2/2012 5:09:33)

Lord aegis rayniedays56 is right. What about the lower levels? if all you do is increase the cost by 4 they will just add the extra energy needed, and still be able to 2 hit users with the malf and plasma bolt combo. While it will help the higher levels the way you said it, it won't help the lower levels since it would still be more powerful then supercharge which isn't right in the least.



GoldenNeo -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/2/2012 6:59:51)

If they don't wanna put a debuff on TLM's skill tree, atleast put the Mineral Armor back to 11 or 12 or maybe even 13. .-.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/2/2012 7:17:39)

Yeah, and they put it down for what reason, Neo? They'll have to put Plasma at 13 too... Don't look how it's a buff for you, it affects other classes too so think about both sides of the argument not "TLM. Buff. Nao."



RageSoul -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/2/2012 8:31:02)

quote:

Lord aegis rayniedays56 is right. What about the lower levels? if all you do is increase the cost by 4 they will just add the extra energy needed, and still be able to 2 hit users with the malf and plasma bolt combo. While it will help the higher levels the way you said it, it won't help the lower levels since it would still be more powerful then supercharge which isn't right in the least.

That's why they were buffed , they were very weak at levels 1 - 10 , but when they buffed TM , i wasn't expecting this to happen . Honest!



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/2/2012 11:03:47)

^ If you weren't expecting it I can understand, but it needs to be nerfed to a more reasonable level. It is causing casters to become too powerful, It made a normal move more powerful then an ultimate move, and now it is being abused to the point where TM are doing what BM used to do 2 hit KO people with the high level malf and max plasma bolt combo. This nerf need to happen soon before the Staff decided to not only nerf that, but nerf other things that no one wants to get nerfed as well.




shadesofblue -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/2/2012 11:36:31)

IMO, I don't think TM's need a nerf right now. Or, maybe just bring back Plasma Bolt to 33 Energy, that would probably do the trick.

quote:

If your trying to say that TLM's win because of how tanky they are, I disagree.

Sure, they're Tanky, but what about their Offensive power? You can Rage on them, but they'll just heal back up with a level 7 heal. Then they completely obliterate you with 20-24 STR (Or the Infernal Android), while you keep doing 5 damage to them every turn. Unless Rage comes every other turn, TLM's are still VERY powerful, and I have not beat a SINGLE Tank/STR Hybrid TLM in 1v1 since the Static Nerf.

quote:

This nerf need to happen soon before the Staff decided to not only nerf that, but nerf other things that no one wants to get nerfed as well.

I would just like to point out that this is what happened to CH, but no one seems to understand that.



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