RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (Full Version)

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DilZZZ -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/5/2012 6:12:07)

My opinion, OP beat OP. So, instead of nerf this and that, why don't improve all the classes to the most OP condition?[:)]

TM - I think its better for Plasma Rain to be improved by Tech.
BM - Use the old scale of Fireball. Give back their Berzerker instead of Bludgeon.
BH - It's fine as they're now.
CH - Use the old Static Charge which is able to gain more than 20 energy on Max. Having this old Static Charge with Plasma Armor will cause too much tanking and probably will be OverOverPowered[:D]. In order to prevent that, it's better to replace Plasma Armor to Technician.
Merc - No change. Probably give back their Blood Shield.
TLM - Give back their Smokescreen and Maul?

~My grammar sucks right?[8D]



rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/5/2012 6:24:16)

TM - I think its better for Plasma Rain to be improved by Tech.
Making Super Charge improve with Dexterity once more? I liked this. But to keep Plasma Rain and Plasma Bolt from being OP, add requirements and increase PB's EP cost.



BM - Use the old scale of Fireball. Give back their Berzerker instead of Bludgeon.
NO. Old scale of fireball was OP. Berzerker was more OP then bludgeon is. If anything, just nerf bludgeon by adding 2 EP cost per level.


BH - It's fine as they're now.
...no they are not. They get WAY too much HP back...

CH - Use the old Static Charge which is able to gain more than 20 energy on Max. Having this old Static Charge with Plasma Armor will cause too much tanking and probably will be OverOverPowered . In order to prevent that, it's better to replace Plasma Armor to Technician.
I like this idea. If only they WOULD get rid of PA.

Merc - No change. Probably give back their Blood Shield.
Adrenaline is an awesome skill. I say give them a buff to intimidate.

TLM - Give back their Smokescreen and Maul?
NO on smokescreen, MAYBE on Maul. Smokescreen, Reroute, Mineral Armor, and Maul is ASKING for the old TLM Strength build.



Drianx -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/5/2012 6:26:09)

quote:

My opinion, OP beat OP. So, instead of nerf this and that, why don't improve all the classes to the most OP condition?

Not a good idea, for a couple of reasons:
1. If you allow all classes to have overpowered strikes that easily deal 50+ damage, you would kill 2v2, because who goes last in 2v2 would die in round 1 before making a move.
2. In 1v1 a fight would last for too short, and would depend on who goes first. So strategy would be killed.



ScarletReaper -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/5/2012 8:23:44)

I've been saying something like this for quite a while. Not make all classes op'ed, but rather than nerf existing classes, buff the weaker ones so they can compete with the op'ed ones. [:)]



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/5/2012 8:59:25)

^

Chance of creating overpowered synergies = unknown

I would not risk that.



theholyfighter -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/5/2012 9:21:21)

Thinking probably instead of fixing the skills, how about fixing the stats progression?



Tracheonyx -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/5/2012 16:54:44)

Balance Suggestions:

1. Restore Focus damage improvement, but nerf bot base damages. This gives them a little edge versus stat spammers.
2. Smokescreen does 65% damage unblockable. Full varium bounties need a minor nerf.
3. Find a way to work Tactics support buff into Mercenaries, possibly replacing Adrenaline but NOT blood commander.
4. Give maul back to Tactical Mercs.
5. Spread poisons over four turns but buff them a couple points.
6. Decrease Malfunction strength requirement to 17 start. Cybers and Tech mages kinda need this.
7. Improve Plasma Rain by 2 damage.
8. Nerf EMP grenade a little.


There, I think I addressed all the underpowered and overpowered things right now. Cybers and Malf tech mages are suffering, balance is losing to spamming, and Tactical Mercenaries are having a rough time. Full Varium bounties have always occupied the leaderboards, so they needed a nerf.



Bunshichi -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/5/2012 17:10:25)

quote:

Spread poisons over four turns but buff them a couple points.


44 dmg from poisen ch/bh's and 48 dmg from tlm's I don't like that.



Chosen 0ne -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/5/2012 17:18:08)

quote:

1. Restore Focus damage improvement, but nerf bot base damages. This gives them a little edge versus stat spammers. I feel it.
2. Smokescreen does 65% damage unblockable. Full varium bounties need a minor nerf. No, this wont do anything.
3. Find a way to work Tactics support buff into Mercenaries, possibly replacing Adrenaline but NOT blood commander. Do NOT replace adrenaline
4. Give maul back to Tactical Mercs. Yes. No smoke though
5. Spread poisons over four turns but buff them a couple points. We do NOT want poison to do more damage.
6. Decrease Malfunction strength requirement to 17 start. Cybers and Tech mages kinda need this. Casters would be way to OPed
7. Improve Plasma Rain by 2 damage. Go ahead
8. Nerf EMP grenade a little.
Sure



Wootz -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/5/2012 17:50:05)

quote:

1. Restore Focus damage improvement, but nerf bot base damages. This gives them a little edge versus stat spammers.
2. Smokescreen does 65% damage unblockable. Full varium bounties need a minor nerf.
3. Find a way to work Tactics support buff into Mercenaries, possibly replacing Adrenaline but NOT blood commander.
4. Give maul back to Tactical Mercs.
5. Spread poisons over four turns but buff them a couple points.
6. Decrease Malfunction strength requirement to 17 start. Cybers and Tech mages kinda need this.
7. Improve Plasma Rain by 2 damage.
8. Nerf EMP grenade a little.

1. I like it.
2. Not really needed.
3. Adrenaline should not be replaced and I don't really get the points of that suggestion.
4. Agreed.
5. No, thanks. It would do a lot more damage, basicly tank the whole fight, dish out damage via Poison(s) and use a bot as a finisher.
6. Caster Tech Mages may be a problem, not sure on the Cyber Hunter side, I have a 41 Strenght requirment for over a year now.
7. Supported.
8. Not really needed as barerly anyone uses it and due to this raw damage by Primary/Side Arm/Auxiliary that can be cause an Energy loss doesn't mean much.



Calogero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/5/2012 17:51:33)

What needs to be fixed:

STR: Make the progression slower, I hear a lot of people whine about STR BH and STR BM and Nerf FireBolt and Nerf this... No, The skills are rather ' Ok ' on itself, it's the stat
that makes it improve that needs a overhaul to say the least.

FieldMedic: Back to Support Improving but at a somewhat smaller progression. It would somewhat Buff Support and might push people to use it again. Not to much though so that it doesn't OP the Support Mage for instance

EMP: I really don't need to say anything about this: It's imo one of the most Broken Skills in the whole game... Non blockable, Non Deflectable, for BH it's somewhat Ok but for CH and it being a Tier 1 skill... what were they thinking

Plasma Bolt: Slap a STR requirement back on it...

I'll edit if I think of more stuff



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/5/2012 17:56:51)

Another of Strength's problem is having 2 weapons (quickest cooldowns by the way) versus other stats having less than 1 weapon to improve.

Hand over the Sidearm to Support, Strength.



TRizZzCENTRINO -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/5/2012 22:44:44)

oh yes i have been thinking that as well, give the gun over to support since aux and gun are both supporting weapons so this would largely reduce strength builds in bloodmage problem solved, but this would increase support bloodmages and techmages which are deadly with their intimidate and shields and malf.



Bunshichi -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/5/2012 23:02:36)

You also have to look at the type of stats they keep giving these weapons. There are no physical guns that don't give str and nearly every aux has str besides the easter aux's year after year.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/6/2012 11:10:10)

Bunshichi here is a list of the physical guns that don't give strength

outlaw
Jackal
Rusted Jackal
Peace Keeper
Rouge blaster
Rusted rouge blaster
auto pistol 9
outlaw 2
ACPMp238
longshot
rusted long shot
outlaw elite
Beta blaster lvl 12
Enforcer
Sharpshooter
rugged magnum
bruiser
rusted bruiser
Mp239 elite
veteran enforcer
Sk 9
Frontier blaster
Hurricane
Security blaster 2
Earthquake
rusted earthquake
commando pisto
Alpha blaster
Beta blaster lvl 25
heartbreaker revolver
justice
lawman special
longshot custom
Mark 2
Machine pistol
rusted machine pistol
super repeater
assault smg
big bang gun
heartbreaker special
Imperial acp
Imperial acpK
officer pistol
dread cannon
rusted specOps pistal
Specops pistol
ACRp 45
Exile blaster
Pirate blunderbuss



JariTheMighty -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/6/2012 12:14:39)

^ Mother1, talking about high level balance, many of the recent high level items (and also many of the best items in the game) give strength, subjecting players to use more strength oriented builds.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/6/2012 13:51:40)

JariTheMighty the most recent mutating weapon that went rare focused more with dex and tech then strength.

Also there is nothing wrong with an item giving strength. However, the way the staff had these items stand out in strength more then the other stats is disappointing especially with the new promo armor. Unlike the last promo armor which only had 4 strength (The Delta Knight) which was lower then the tech and dex it had, this armor has 8 strength while having 6 dex and 3 for tech and support. Honestly they should have placed that 8 in the tech spot or even the support spot instead of strength.

However with the boomsticks it made slighty more sense however it would have been better if they would have made tech or even support stand out more then strength.

When the staff brought these weapons out I posted how disappointed I was that they did this and worse to wear I am starting to see people run around with over 120-130 str especially with TLM.

Not only that, but I am now seeing them using this combo with max poison which I am now losing too almost all the time unless I get a block delfection or use boosters.



ScarletReaper -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/6/2012 15:27:14)

So to summarize, Lower strength progression, Add strength requirement to plasma bolt and increase cost to 33, Release some weapons that DON'T promote strength, And for the love of god, please have field medic improve at a lower rate with support than before, so that support will be a viable build option again :D



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/6/2012 15:43:02)

^ Scarletreaper if heal improved with support those who don't add it to their builds would be at a disadvantage since healing would do less for them while those who spam it will have too much off an advantage. While having it fixed doesn't help support, at least healing is completely balanced and doesn't have any negatives for either side.



Rayman -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/6/2012 15:44:54)

I Hate all the items with STR, I Have been waiting a good phy gun without STR And Im Stucked with the 30 dmg acrp 45.



ScarletReaper -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/6/2012 15:50:27)

@Mother1, If it was at a lower progression than it used to be it would be fun. The problem before was that people would have a level 1 field medic that healed 65-70. If it only healed like 45-50 at level 1 it would be ok. Also if it forced people to add a little support to their build, how would that be a bad thing? I mean focus builds would still be just fine. But them dex, tech, and strength abusers would have to change a little bit, and that is not a bad thing in my opinion.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/6/2012 15:51:04)

Funnily enough, Heal will improve by Support once Rabble knows how to fix it at all Levels so it doesn't scale too fast and isn't OP. They do want Heal to scale again but not to the point where it's OP.. >.>



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/6/2012 16:12:21)

Scarletreaper that is just the thing. Remember when the infernal android came out? It was forcing people to go to focus builds just to compete. Those same people will be thinking it is the same thing all over again (Meaning the staff is trying to force people to use focus builds to reap the benefits of something.) and as I stated before those high support builds even with a slower progression would still have the advantage with healing while dealing strong debuffs (with the exception of smoke) and getting strong buffs (with the exception of technician and blood shield) Oh and let's not forget support mercs and tech mercs. this could OP those as well. But on another note with the right equipment and build this wouldn't do to much to stop those spammers.

I had a level four focus BM and Merc build that spammed a certain stat but still had decent support. So if I wanted to get around this and spam a stat that would be all I would have to do.

Trans hopefully when he does it it will only be a slight boost because level 1 healing with 45-50 health recovery would still be too much maybe 35-40 would be better since it is only a slight boost.



ScarletReaper -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/6/2012 16:17:11)

Here's the thing though, Even with the slight buff you would get to field medic, do you really think they could beat a strength build? Not likely. Plus, It wouldn't really make that build op'ed. Just actually usefull.How many support builds do you see right now? Not very many. How many strength, tech, and dex builds do you see? A HECK of a lot more. What does that tell you about how usefull support is?



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/6/2012 16:20:03)

Howaboutno.gif

Very slow? It was Support/4 last time and it was OP but considering that Deflections are also gone, it wouldn't kill if it was even Support/6. Support lost some of its power since then. Of course there'll be people like Hun saying that Support needs a nerf + unfair Multi for Mercs (because, herp derp, Dex and Tech don't really give you anything whilst Support gives Crits), but Support on its own is weak but manageable at the moment. It needs a buff since deflections were taken away and we had it promised in form of Heal. It'll give defensive builds more of an edge over Str abusers since we'll cushion more damage and Rage won't be as much of an issue. Kill the game? Funny. Android did that? Only TLMs stall it for so long with Boosters yet I can do the same with Gamma and quicker and yet, I didn't kill the game. If you mean when it was OP, you realise Heal was OP so why bring it back to OP again? <_< >_>



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