RE: Balancing Warrior and Mage (Full Version)

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Zeruphantom -> RE: Balancing Warrior and Mage (8/31/2018 20:10:59)

quote:

The main issue here are two underpowered stats : Intellect, only use of which is guest upkeep


i'm sorry what

quote:

I feel burst damage is underpowered in general


literally what



Lineolata -> RE: Balancing Warrior and Mage (8/31/2018 21:01:17)

Make it so that any SP-costing nuke cannot have a Magic version. Melee or Ranged only.



I Overlord I -> RE: Balancing Warrior and Mage (8/31/2018 22:31:23)

quote:

i'm sorry what

He's trolling, lol. That's why I didn't bother when I saw it earlier. Then again...



Cleric_Bukowski -> RE: Balancing Warrior and Mage (9/1/2018 7:53:36)

I think making CIT variants up to lvl 150 would be a good start and an idea on how to implement dual wielding in a sense would be a shield that doesn't do anything for blocking but after your attack does damage based on your weapon element and strength/endurance



KingInTheNorth -> RE: Balancing Warrior and Mage (9/1/2018 15:11:12)

Mages would be able to use CIT too, so that doesn't really fix the problem it just exacerbates the power creep.

Dual wielding sounds fun but I don't ever expect it to happen.



J9408 -> RE: Balancing Warrior and Mage (9/1/2018 18:11:43)

^Implementing Dual wielding would most likely require heavy changes to battles.

On top of everything else that needs updating, I think dual wielding should just stay with the Assassin class.



battlesiege15 -> RE: Balancing Warrior and Mage (9/2/2018 17:44:10)

Dual wielding I think could be done, but only for a specific armor.

An armor that would lock your shield so you can't use any shields at all in that armor. I came up with a similar idea a while ago ( Titan Colossus) and think it could be cool especially if we have a Berserker type armor. Forgoing defense in order to deal more damage.

This would make things more interesting for sure especially for warriors and rangers that rely on weapon damage as long as magic weapons don't get boosted to compensate for being shield-locked.

Seems the staff really are loving the 'take more damage to dish more damage' so maybe extend hat to other items? Seems Zealot had a benefit for the Magic version so how about armors and shields which would grant a flat damage boost regardless of damage type.



afterlifex -> RE: Balancing Warrior and Mage (9/2/2018 17:58:12)

Dual wielding as in two weapons even just as art isn't that simple. It would have to be pseudo i.e. just some kind of dmg augmentation like CIT. Thou arguable not a new or unique idea.

Beyond that i am just going to stay out of this topic if I can help it[:D] Thou I will pose a general question, does "more dmg" solve anything or does it just patch things? Think about that.



J9408 -> RE: Balancing Warrior and Mage (9/2/2018 22:22:32)

^I agree.

Not only do mages get to use both the SP and MP bar, but most MC equipment nowadays seem to include a magic toggle, leaving less unique stuff for warriors.

If you compare the choices of mages, this seems to be a problem of less variety of warrior only equipment.



I Overlord I -> RE: Balancing Warrior and Mage (9/3/2018 17:24:55)

Speaking of toggles, I'd like to see some more Melee -> Ranged or Magic -> Ranged toggles. In an ideal world, there would be none, but then, this isn't an ideal world. As such, I consider them to be a necessary evil (as long as they're used sparingly, that is). It's a little more work for the artist, but ultimately worth it, I'd say. The introduction of Thernda has made it so that spear-rangers are no longer wanna-be warriors but a legitimate build in their own right. A legitimate build with some great weapons of their own (e.g. Tonbogiri), albeit one that doesn't get as much love as warriors, much less mages. Ah, well. Life's not fair. Still, if we can't have more uniques, some more toggle-able options would be nice.



Aura Knight -> RE: Balancing Warrior and Mage (9/3/2018 21:26:50)

If warriors do less damage, how would you all feel about there being a Rage Meter for all warrior builds. The more damage you take in a fight, the more the meter builds up until you attack with full rage for idk, maybe 5x damage? This would of course consume all your SP and maybe have a negative effect too. Could be a bad idea and it probably is but essentially it would mean making all warriors be like Berserkers. Getting a damage boost as your health decreases.



J9408 -> RE: Balancing Warrior and Mage (9/3/2018 21:28:20)

^That sounds like a good idea for a warrior focus class.



Primate Murder -> RE: Balancing Warrior and Mage (9/7/2018 4:00:13)

Posted an offensive beast-booster class and a revamped warrior-based berserker class in the suggies.

Mostly for the lulz, but I won't say no to some of it getting used by the staff in future updates.



Incantatus -> RE: Balancing Warrior and Mage (9/11/2018 6:34:49)

I think if most amor skills are locked to one type of damage and don't convert to Magic damage, the current imbalance will be resolved. So White Knight Z would only be ranged damage and Moglord's too. Armor skills will be exclusive to warriors. In this way, mages can use SOME armors (not all) and warriors can use SOME armors (not all).

Right now mages can use any armor they want which is unfair. The additional SP cost for conversion from Melee/Ranged to Magic damage doesn't really make a difference. Just disable the feature that converts the damage types.



Weird Wizard -> RE: Balancing Warrior and Mage (9/12/2018 2:09:10)

I really just wanted rogue, mage and warrior builds to be more advantageous to themselves and less so for others. For example:

ALL!! melee weapons should be HIGHEST in power but the least accurate and least powerful specials
ALL!! ranged weapons should be highest in accuracy but LOW in power and MEDIUM in specials
ALL!! magic weapons should be LOWEST in power, LOWEST in accuracy but HIGHEST in specials
THE ABOVE SHOULD APPLY TO PET ATTACKS AS WELL

And for armor combat defenses.
Ranged focus armors should have very high range defense. but very low magic and melee defense. for example, ranged:80 Melee 20, magic 10
Melee focus armors should have very high melee defense. but very low magic and ranged defense. for example, melee: 80, ranged 20, magic 10
Magic focused armors should have very high magic defense. but very low ranged and melee defense. for example magic: 80, ranged 20 melee 10

These are all purely suggestions since i have been playing since 2004 and i would like this game to be more immersive and for builds to have good strengths but weaknesses. Instead of just being an all around powerhouse with no negative effects.

I didn't list hybrid builds but you should pretty much get where i am coming from hopefully.

Adventure quest has so much more potential. all it needs is more customization and immersiveness. which can happen with what i said above.




The Finnish Phoenix -> RE: Balancing Warrior and Mage (9/12/2018 14:09:36)

The potential for Warriors/Rangers is very high, we can kill almost anything in the game within a couple turns using SP nukes in tandem with ShadowFeeder Pendant, Dunamis/Thernda, Buffalot's, Blood Contract/RanGer's Scope, and possibly Elahi Irt/Celtic Wheel into Moonwalker's Grace on top of that as well for a bit more time, then taking all the SP for set up back with Purple Rain/Essence Orb. If we have to play a longer fight due to damage caps or whatever the case may be, then we can do so fairly well as our stronger auto attacks mean we don't have to depend as much on limited resources like MP, while SP regenerates on its own.

It could be argued that Warriors/Rangers are marginally slower for wars as the top players tend to be Mages, but last war Melissa racked up 22000 kills, the most I've ever seen, and did it with a Warrior build. Probably the biggest inherent setback with Warriors/Rangers in wars is we necessarily have to use SP for our most powerful attacks, and SP doesn't heal from rests/full heals. Basically, we have to click Essence Orb more often, which costs us a few more seconds per fight and involves annoying repetitive stress movements that we have to hope won't give us carpal tunnel, but it's pretty negligible in terms of actual efficiency when most fights are under the minimum battle time and rewards don't load until that point. Mechanics to fully heal SP in wars and/or the ability to gain SP through STR would be very helpful.

The situation feels like a bit of an arms race. After the release of Buffalot's Beach Bod, Warriors were likely at least as powerful but then came Arcane Amplification to again put Mages on top, but at this point it's the monsters that can't keep up as they all die before they can see a second turn against anyone without a full set of premium buffs regardless of their build.

Poelala being easier to acquire than Dunamis and Thernda has been touched on before, but Mages do have to make some additional investments for damaging Spells like Arctic Tornado and Cysero's Telephone Booth if they want to reach their full potential. That said, for free players or players who don't want to pay through the nose for packages, Mages clearly have more potential due to the Poelala pet. I'd prefer for Dunamis and Thernda to be free, but obviously those would be huge hits to revenue. Poelala was additionally a donation item, so having it go Rare from the Golden Giftbox shop and then re-appear as part of a package may well make the most sense.

Essentially my recommendations would be:
-Clickable SP full heals in wars. We manually do it anyway through Essence Orb and this would make it less tedious. If it were a Guardian-only feature it could also be a good incentive for that.
-A bonus to SP from STR, perhaps at about a half of the rate INT bolsters EXP since we have stronger weapons and a starting amount of SP based on Level.
-Re-locating Poelala to the same level of package as Thernda and Dunamis, hopefully replaced with a nice across-the-board buffing pet/item for free players that is good but not as good as Dunami/Poelala/Thernda.



LUPUL LUNATIC -> RE: Balancing Warrior and Mage (12/22/2018 13:36:08)

It would not solve issues but favor immensely Pure Builds because DEX no longer needed as assumed support it means they get to effectively use 250 extra stat points,not only that but if DEX will be MainStat considered then assumed build will always be 250 STR/INT/DEX along with 250 LUK and then what do you get for the 3rd stat assumed ? It leaves problems either way.

I propose some changes to DEX however:

- No LONGER affects Pet/Guests BTH (instead CHA/LUK will increase more to compensate for the loss);
- No LONGER gives Blocking all around, it will just give Ranged Defense, STR will give Melee Defense and INT will give Magic Defense;



CH4OT1C! -> RE: Balancing Warrior and Mage (12/30/2018 16:51:08)

Healing between Mage and Warrior/Ranger is currently unbalanced:

Skills etc. cost SP. This is a universal resource, so can scale regardless of stat.

Mages have access to spells. These scale healing damage based on INT. Warriors do not have this luxury, where healing items scale by END as a pose to STR. This gives mages an unfair advantage over other builds with access to healing.

@below
Yes you need items for that to happen. SPells can scale with those, but warrior centric methods are also necessary. (Note: This also applies to rangers with DEX)

Furthermore, melee/ranged skills need their SP costs increasing to Magic skill levels according to this post.



AliceShiki -> RE: Balancing Warrior and Mage (12/30/2018 17:08:23)

^ That's just an issue of equipment gap, staff just needs to release a STR-based healing SPell.

I think the biggest problem in making this kind of thing is making a healing SPell that makes sense thematically to heal your HP with STR... It's a lot easier to think of one that works with INT or CHA, and somewhat easy with END too IMO...



Mr. Roguish -> RE: Balancing Warrior and Mage (1/12/2019 10:58:33)

Why does AQ ignore Rogues?! Everyone's so big on balancing warriors to mages that they forget that some people play as the third option. Where's our OP sets, where's our OP skills?



Dreiko Shadrack -> RE: Balancing Warrior and Mage (1/12/2019 11:01:14)

Rogues aren't actually an archetype in AQ, the 3 primary archetypes are Warriors, Rangers and Mages. Given how stats and their bonuses work at the moment, when mentioning warriors we're also mentioning rangers for the most part.

but yeah Rogues aren't really a thing.



Dreiko Shadrack -> RE: Balancing Warrior and Mage (1/12/2019 16:51:57)

Actually DEX isn't a primary stat for much of anything other than BTH, it contributes little damage to ranged weaponry, most of the damage actually comes from STR, which is why when talking about warriors you're also pretty much talking about rangers.

rogues still aren't a thing in AQ in terms of archetypes, it was never explored or supported in any regard towards a different playstyle.



Bannished Rogue -> RE: Balancing Warrior and Mage (1/12/2019 16:59:39)

quote:

rogues still aren't a thing in AQ in terms of archetypes, it was never explored or supported in any regard towards a different playstyle.

But isn't that the problem, or at least part of it?



Dreiko Shadrack -> RE: Balancing Warrior and Mage (1/12/2019 19:07:33)

it's an issue if you wanted Rogues to be a thing.

It's not an issue on the magnitude of how warriors/rangers stand next to mages, simply by virtue of Rogues not being a thing.



Bannished Rogue -> RE: Balancing Warrior and Mage (1/12/2019 19:35:42)

lol why do you think that rogues don't exist? Its one of the three choices when you first create your character. Its even one of the three classes you have to train before moving on to the other classes.



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