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Timmy, Johnny and Spike

 
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2/19/2014 4:32:05   
Xendran
Member

Which type are you, which type do you think this game caters to, which type do you think this game SHOULD cater to (hint: all three), and do you think this games broken mechanics are causing a certain player type to become extremely dominant?
Please discuss.

I am the perfect example of a Spike/Johnny. I play to win, i play to win hard, and i play to ALWAYS win, but i absolutely never build copy under any circumstance.
When i made my build after returning and i found out it was already Flavor Of The Month, i tweaked it to include fire scythe, malfunction, and Improbability Gate.

Source: Mark Rosewater | Wizards of the Coast

quote:

What Does That Mean?

First of all, be aware that if you are listed as having two or three types (such as Johnny / Spike), your most prominent type is listed first.

Now that you’ve taken the test, I’m sure you’re asking questions like what the heck is a Timmy, Johnny, or Spike? Here in Magic R&D our job is create a game that makes players happy. In order to do this, we have to find out what players like about our game. Doing so has been a long ongoing process involving numerous factors. We’ve done questionnaires. We’ve done focus groups. We’ve lurked on Magic web sites and bulletin boards. We’ve talked to players in person. Heck, we even see what articles you read on this site.

After numerous years, we’ve come to the conclusion that there are three basic types of Magic players. The fancy term for these categories is "psychographic profiles." A psychographic profile separates players into categories based on their psychological make-up. What motivates that player to play? What kind of cards do they like? What kind of things encourages that player to keep on playing?

Because R&D loves naming things, we have given each of these three category types a name: Timmy, Johnny, and Spike. In this column I am going to explain each type and talk about how we came up with the goofy nickname.

One last thing before I start. Very few players fall into one specific psychographic profile. Most players have elements that overlap numerous profiles. This is why, for example, some of you who took the test got a combination of profiles rather than just one. I will talk about the hybrids after I explain each profile.

===
Timmy
===

Timmy wasn't the first profile we created, but it was the first profile we named. Timmy’s naming happened by accident during Tempest design. We were talking about whether or not Verdant Force would be popular. I happen to have a flair for the dramatic (if you haven’t caught on yet), so I started one of my little speeches: (Incidentally, I’m not 100% sure why I chose the name "Timmy." I wanted to personify the kid so I gave him a name and Timmy had this innocent little-kid quality to it that must have struck my fancy in the heat of the moment.)

“Imagine a kid goes into a game store. Let’s just call him… 'Timmy.' Now, Timmy doesn’t have a lot of money. So, he buys one pack of Bogavhati (Tempest’s codename). He rips it open and starts tearing through the cards to find the rare. And then he sees it. It’s a big green creature. Seven power. Seven toughness. It’s huge. Huge! He’s eyes keep moving. He glances up at the casting cost: 5 ManaGreen ManaGreen ManaGreen Mana, blah, blah, blah. Boring. Move on. Timmy looks at the rules text. There’s a bunch of words. Timmy reads. Every turn Timmy gets another creature. Another entire creature. It’s small, but in ten turns, he’ll have twenty creatures. A 7/7 creature with twenty 1/1s. How does his opponent stop that? It can’t be stopped! Timmy finally exhales. He has found the Holy Grail.”

For some reason, the name Timmy stuck.

Timmy is what we in R&D call the "power gamer." Timmy likes to win big. He doesn’t want to eke out a last minute victory. Timmy wants to smash his opponents. He likes his cards to be impressive, and he enjoys playing big creatures and big spells.

One of the misconceptions is that Timmy has to be young. While its true that younger players are more apt to fall into this category, players of any age can be a Timmy. What sets Timmy apart from the other two profiles is that Timmy is motivated by fun. He plays Magic because it’s enjoyable. Timmy is very social. An important part of the game is sitting around with his friends.

Timmy cares more about the quality of his win than the quantity of his wins. For example, Timmy sits down and plays ten games. He only wins three games out of ten but the three he wins, he dominates his opponent. Timmy had fun. Timmy walks away happy.

Each set, R&D makes sure to design a certain number of cards for Timmy. Timmy cards, as we call them, tend to be big creatures or spells with big effects. In general, Timmy cards are exciting but not too economical. The more efficiently costed ones will catch Spike’s eye. Good examples of Timmy cards are: Krosan Beast, Iridescent Angel, and just about any dragon.


===
Johnny
===

Johnny was the second profile to get a name. During Urza’s Saga development, R&D had accepted the Timmy and "tournament player" profiles, but I believed that there was an important profile missing. You see, I wasn’t really a Timmy player and I wasn’t really a tournament player. I was this missing third type. While trying to explain who he was, I stumbled into calling him "Johnny." Like Timmy, the name stuck.

Johnny is the creative gamer to whom Magic is a form of self-expression. Johnny likes to win, but he wants to win with style. It’s very important to Johnny that he win on his own terms. As such, it’s important to Johnny that he’s using his own deck. Playing Magic is an opportunity for Johnny to show off his creativity.

Johnny likes a challenge. Johnny enjoys winning with cards that no one else wants to use. He likes making decks that win in innovative ways. What sets Johnny apart from the other profiles is that Johnny enjoys deckbuilding as much as (or more than) he enjoys playing. Johnny loves the cool interactions of the cards. He loves combo decks. Johnny is happiest when he’s exploring uncharted territory.

Like Timmy, Johnny cares more about the quality of his wins than the quantity. For example, let's say Johnny builds a new deck that has a neat but difficult way to win. He plays ten games and manages to get his deck to do its thing… once. Johnny walks away happy.

Each set, R&D designs some cards for Johnny. Johnny cards are cards that have unique effects that Johnny can build cool decks around. In general, Johnny cards are the kind of cards with real potential. (Some of them will eventually excite Spike.) Good examples of Johnny cards are Holistic Wisdom, Radiate, and Battle of Wits.

===
Spike
===

Although Spike was the first profile R&D was aware of, it was the last to get a name. In fact, "Spike" is the only nickname I didn’t come up with. None of R&D did. You see for years, R&D just called them Timmy, Johnny, and "the tournament player." But at some point we explained the three profiles to the Magic brand team. They felt the tournament player needed a name, so they named him. Why "Spike?" The best I’ve been able to figure out is they felt Spike sounded like a serious, play-to-win-type name.

Spike is the competitive player. Spike plays to win. Spike enjoys winning. To accomplish this, Spike will play whatever the best deck is. Spike will copy decks off the Internet. Spike will borrow other players’ decks. To Spike, the thrill of Magic is the adrenalin rush of competition. Spike enjoys the stimulation of outplaying the opponent and the glory of victory.

Spike cares more about the quantity of wins than the quality. For example, Spike plays ten games and wins nine of them. If Spike feels he should have won the tenth, he walks away unhappy.

R&D makes plenty of cards for Spike. Unlike the Timmy and Johnny cards, Spike cards are relatively easy to make. Spike plays what wins, so if R&D makes a card good enough, Spike will play it. Good examples of Spike cards are Call of the Herd, Shadowmage Infiltrator, and Fact or Fiction.

===
The Hybrids
===

Many players do not fit so easily in one box. These players have bits and pieces of multiple profiles.
Timmy/Johnny or Johnny/Timmy

The Timmy/Johnny player likes the cool big effects but also enjoys the creative side of the game. A perfect example of a Timmy/Johnny card is Haunting Echoes. The card has a huge effect that attracts Timmy but offers cool deck potentials for Johnny. The Timmy/Johnny wants to smash his opponent, but with style.

Timmy/Spike or Spike/Timmy

The Timmy/Spike player wants to win, but also like to indulge his fun side. When picking a deck, Timmy/Spike will always pick the good deck with the biggest creatures or effects. A good example of a Timmy/Spike card is Rith, the Awakener. Rith is a big dragon, but one that’s costed aggressively with a good special ability.

Johnny/Spike or Spike/Johnny

The Johnny/Spike player wants to win but only on his own terms. Most of the rogue tournament deckbuilders are Johnny/Spikes. They go to great lengths to be able to win with original decks. Even when they have to use a pre-made deck, they will always tweak it to give the deck their own spin. A good example of a Johnny/Spike card is Basking Rootwalla. The card is cool and offers interesting deckbuilding opportunities but still has the raw power needed to win.

Timmy/Johnny/Spike (All Three)

The Timmy/Johnny/Spike players want it all. They want to play big cards, have innovative decks, and yet still win as much as possible. This hybrid is a rare breed as few players are pulled in all three directions. As such, R&D does not design too many cards that hit all three profiles at once. One example of a card that appealed to all three groups was Verdant Force. Timmy liked its huge size, Johnny appreciated its combo possibilities, and Spike liked its utility in reanimation and Natural Order-based decks.

There you have it. These are the profiles R&D considers when designing (and developing) cards. Be aware that these profiles apply to the motivations of the players and not the formats they play. Timmy can play in tournaments and Spike can play multi-player games. In a future article I will talk more about how R&D designs cards specifically for competitive and casual play.

Anyway, that’s all for this column. Hopefully, it will give you all a little insight into one of the many facets R&D considers when we design (and develop) each set.

Join me next week when I explore the italic.

Until then, may you always flip heads.


Title edited. See your inbox if you haven't already. ~ Zan

< Message edited by ZanpakuTô -- 2/19/2014 14:12:05 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 1
2/19/2014 6:32:13   
edwardvulture
Member

I'm Johnny. Roughly translated to Epicduel terms, Timmy is using an ineffective build while Spike is using an OP build and Johnny is using his own/creative build.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 2
2/19/2014 6:38:51   
Xendran
Member

One thing to note is that Johnny and Johnny/Spike players are actually the cause of Spike builds.
Johnny players are always trying new things and eventually stumble upon some sort of broken build, which eventually spreads.
That's how heal looping started. I was a johnny when i started and didnt care at all about my win rate, so i saw my friend noslrac with a high health mercenary and decided i would try it on mage.
Then i discovered its power and quickly became a johnny/spike hybrid because of how proud i was of the build.

Timmy builds aren't always ineffective, they're just usually ineffective in epicduel. They werent always, though.
Massacre builds , back when massacre and non massacre builds were decently balanced against each other, are an example of a timmy build.
You could have had the same success with a similar playstyle and a bit more reliability with poison back then, but massacre had a really big number and a huge animation.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 3
2/19/2014 6:48:05   
Ranloth
Banned


I'm somewhere in-between Timmy and Johnny. I like winning, but my build is designed to not be the "flavour of the month", but a personal one. It was popular during late Delta and early Omega, but then pretty much died out. Can win here and there, but also lose against the mainstream builds (Spike), but it doesn't bother me as much, to the point where I'd turn into Spike.
Winning is nice, but it's not a priority for me. Losing is frustrating, but having the same build as everyone else and winning is almost just as boring for me. If I can't keep the game interesting for myself, I don't see a reason to play.
AQ Epic  Post #: 4
2/19/2014 7:10:42   
Sauerkraut
Member

The Johnny/Spike type probably. I occasionally run out of credits due to excessive retraining/experimenting/tweaking details, even after finding some working builds.

Epic  Post #: 5
2/19/2014 10:36:27   
Remorse
Member

This is very interesting, I myself am a johnny/spike aswell, in-fact I actually despise Timmy players for some reason, probably because in epicduel timmy builds use RNG to kill anything a lot of the time with basically no counters.


I think the devs cater to timmy players way to much in the creating of easy to use and effective, often un-counterable cores and skills such as hatchling rush, defense melting cores, sheild breaker cores, etc.


As a result you are left with extremely hard to counter but luck prone builds that hide their true power under their likelihood of getting bad luck.

Something that really annoys my style of player as I hate the fact putting little effort into battles can be so effective, even against builds that use loads of effort.


Then their is the poor balance in which spike/timmy players take a hold of which allows both effort and non effort using certain builds to dominate reducing the viable creativity range for johnny players.




< Message edited by Remorse -- 2/19/2014 10:37:46 >
Epic  Post #: 6
2/19/2014 11:23:55   
Elf Priest JZaanu
Constructive!


A very interesting read.

With the three choices, I would be close to a Johnny type. I enjoy making a tactical battle in every match. I play to compete and speed is not a factor. Countering certain build-types has been a great joy for me.
AQW Epic  Post #: 7
2/19/2014 13:01:54   
Thylek Shran
Member

Johnny/Spike would fit to me. People ask me why I am not using promos like most players do.
Winning is important but not everything. It haz to be with style !

Of course the game does favour Spike players because in the end its about winning.
There will always be skills and cores that are more powerfull than others and especially
the combination of them so that they will be copied. The only problem I see there is
that some skills are way to much Spike and a must have. Like maxed Battery and
Assimilation for TMs. Previously it was Reroute while Deadly Aim was not a must have.
Assimilation was not that important too because it was much weaker especially before
Omega. So the exact opposite of what the devs wanted to have occured and they
stopped to work on it. At some point it does not make sense to make a Timmy or Johnny
build. Its is when the win rate drops way to low. Atm ED is to much Spike.

< Message edited by Thylek Shran -- 2/19/2014 13:25:16 >


_____________________________


v.35.3 (2016-01-23) ~ beam.to/shran
DF Epic  Post #: 8
2/19/2014 14:38:38   
Xendran
Member

quote:

Like maxed Battery and
Assimilation for TMs.


From my levelling experience, 6 assimilate and 6 battery is superior while levellign to 40, and max assimilaet and 8 battery once you reach 40.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 9
2/19/2014 15:44:43   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


I am a Johnny for sure.

Winning is fun, I mean who doesn't like to win, but I will tinker with builds until I find something that is good but I will stop before it is too good and everyone starts using it.

I like a certain amount of suck in my builds so that I know I can and will lose because losing can also be fun if it is a good match
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 10
2/19/2014 17:20:06   
edwardvulture
Member

To be honest, there are probably no Timmy's left at least in the level-cap because there are too much Spikes using OP builds and that causes the Timmy's to lose way more than 7/10th of the time.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 11
2/19/2014 22:55:25   
Remorse
Member

^ My interpretation is that Timmy are spikes that use easy and effective and powerful builds.


Such as a normal STR tech mage build, when the build is slightly different from the norm it would become more johnny.

In fact I would say almost all STR builds are Timmy builds so long as they are nothing new.

Builds like focus builds often win more (well they used too) but take more effort they are probably more your spike build since on average they are less likely to fall victom to bad luck, something a Timmy players don't care for so long as they get domination in effortless victories.


To separate it according to build I would have it like this:

STR/Glass cannon= Timmy
Tank/Focus= Spike
Unique version of both= Johnny.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 2/19/2014 23:04:14 >
Epic  Post #: 12
2/19/2014 23:00:13   
Mother1
Member

@ remorse

Which is why a lot of people don't use those builds. Many people just want to win effortlessly. Sad but true. I myself am more of the Johnny player since I want to win on my own terms and refuse to use sheep builds because they are easy to use and abuse.

But overall that was an interesting read to be honest.
Epic  Post #: 13
2/19/2014 23:02:40   
Remorse
Member

^ It is sad I agree,

But the devs are partly to blame for making effortless so effective.
Epic  Post #: 14
2/19/2014 23:06:38   
Mother1
Member

@ remorse

This is what happens when you try to turn something that is rated PG 13 into rated G. But at the same time since their bosses are looking to cater to kids the staff has no choice but to do so.
Epic  Post #: 15
2/19/2014 23:12:12   
Remorse
Member

^ It is sad and true,

Basically I have little hope for the game for me now since they are focusing on making the game everything I hate about it, a shame since of the large investment I have in it but ultimately nothing we can really do :/

Maybe they will change their audience focus when they realize no one wants to play it in the too child friendly way.

That is about all I can hope for.
Epic  Post #: 16
2/20/2014 0:51:38   
Pemberton
Member
 

The problem with this game is you will be a Spike sooner or later because that's the best way to win.
Post #: 17
2/20/2014 0:55:07   
Dual Thrusters
Member

quote:

Johnny likes to win, but he wants to win with style


For any of you who know me in-game, it should already be obvious with this statement
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 18
2/20/2014 5:54:58   
danirasab
Banned


I am a Timmy/Johnny/Spike player
Epic  Post #: 19
2/20/2014 6:23:25   
Ranloth
Banned


quote:

Maybe they will change their audience focus when they realize no one wants to play it in the too child friendly way.

No. You cannot change it just like that, and have 99% of the game content cater for kids, and drastic switch to 16/18+ even. ED cannot make the switch either - it's been said over and over again too. AE has purchased Epic Inventions, in other words, EpicDuel, so it's their game. They've changed the game's rating, and there's nothing that can be done about it.
AE is aimed at kids, and it'll remain so. If you have any hope of that changing, don't. They may try making games for older audience - and I think AQ3D was one of them - but they won't change existing games, ever.
AQ Epic  Post #: 20
2/20/2014 6:29:36   
Xendran
Member

I don't see how AQ3D could possibly succesfull tbh, because there's one other blatantly unbeatable competitor in the "You don't need a gaming PC to play this huge mmo!" genre, let alone taking into consideration the other big mmos.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 21
2/20/2014 6:54:37   
Remorse
Member

@ trans,

Just cause they make the mechanics of the game slightly harder doesn't mean it's for adults, all I'm saying is they are losing players by making it stupid simple.
Epic  Post #: 22
2/20/2014 7:24:37   
Ranloth
Banned


That's not your business though. AE is aimed at kids, and it'll remain so. If they go for adult audience - what about kids? You're forgoing one group for another. At least now, you can attract both, but the older audience may see it as very easy.

It still won't change. Another one of those things which people consider to be the best fix for the game, or something very easy to do. <.<
AQ Epic  Post #: 23
2/20/2014 12:35:26   
Rui.
Banned

 

Basic fundamentals of an MMO based audience. Was a good read thanks for it Xen.

Unfortunately ED lost a huge chunk of Spike with the OMEGA PHASE !

We have been forced to be Timmy and Jhonny ><

Oh look he has that strategy and weapons ... lemme get the same build ... omg yay i am good ya ? >< gg
Post #: 24
2/20/2014 13:52:27   
Xendran
Member

quote:

Basic fundamentals of an MMO based audience. Was a good read thanks for it Xen.


Card game.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 25
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