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=DF= June 10th Design Notes: DragonFable's 16th Anniversary!

 
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6/10/2022 23:04:51   
  Peachii
Clairvoyant!


quote:


Verlyrus:
DragonFable's 16th Anniversary!

Hey there, heroes!

It's DragonFable's 16th Anniversary, and we have a huge release in store for you! From dragon menus to bag space to epilogues... let's see what we have in store!



First up, the Dragon Menu has been completely reworked! Interact with and play with your dragon, as well as being reminded to feed them! Besides the new appearance and features, a number of adjustments have been made for easier use. For example, Primalizing elements is now automatic when you have them unlocked, and you can also immediately close the interface from the elementalize screen without needing to click "confirm". Summoning your dragon will also now automatically close the interface!

There's a lot of cool changes we've made, so grab your Dragon Amulet and take a look!



Next, the Maleurous Epilogue: Remembrance!



With the last of the Maleurous defeated, maybe it's time for some rest before the next big adventure!

If you've completed the previous Maleurous quests in the saga, head over to Uaanta in Book 3 Falconreach to view the epilogue to the Maleurous saga!



And finally, bag space has been increased for all characters!



With the increased need for more varieties of gear, and the introduction of cosmetic items and build templates, inventory space has become sorely lacking in recent years.

And so, we're increasing the base bag space for all characters, new and old.

Non-DA characters now have +10 inventory slots, for a total of 30, and DA characters now have +30 inventory slots for a total of 50!

This also means purchasing a Dragon Amulet will provide you with +20 bag spaces!

These changes affect all characters, new and old, and also increases the maximum capacity of bags to 230, up from 200 (If you already had the maximum, you will not need to purchase more).



And that's all for this week! It's been another incredible year of DragonFable, and it's thanks to all of you that we're able to keep updating the game with new stories and content and improvements.

Thank you for playing DragonFable!



Have feedback about recent releases? Have any crazy theories or ideas? Want to discuss all things DragonFable?

Join the discussion on the official forums!

Want to play DragonFable without using an internet browser?

Check out the Artix Games Launcher!

Follow us on Twitter for sneak peeks and updates (and feel free to tweet us your fan art and feedback too!)

Verlyrus Twitter

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Tags: #Verlyrus
DF AQW  Post #: 1
6/10/2022 23:41:45   
Laeon val Observis
Member
 

Definitely a worthy ending for a saga that spanned multiple F13s in the making, and the reward exceeded expectation. Although I do note that the special branch dialogue in Notha's arc seemed to have fallen out of relevance to impact the lines spoken here. It felt neutral, the best attempt to "one size fits all" regardless of whether you sided with Notha or Uaanta. Then again, judging from how the last Valentines event went, nothing too unusual to foregoing more complex dialogue chains.
spoiler:

That extra detail on Lorian death concepts is definitely interesting. Well, the reincarnated egg of Fluffy definitely slipped past our heads. How it'll impact our adventures will be quite something if it connects in the main story. And of course, the recent turn of events can also spell a warning. What'll happen if the Hero themselves suffer a similar fate to Remthalas as it is canon after all that we suffer our own taint from Kathool?

As for the anniversary bonuses, amazing. Additional inventory slots that ensure DA holders at least don't have to worry too much to carry in gearswap-intense fights. And for the dragon, that's a breath of fresh air. The interaction, while irrelevant for battle benefits, give more life to our scaly companion outside of cutscenes. It might be confusing at first, but primalization for the associated element can be disengaged by clicking on the elemental rune that appears in the center of the elemental wheel. And that courier function is quite nice. Now there's a quick spot where we can sell items.

EDIT: Since primalization is already in the equation, is there really no more application to a feature that only sees daylight in the rarely-used Titan battlefields? Perhaps this can be expanded onto our ground battles, possibly in the usage of Primal Fury. It's always been odd that our Dragon's autocrit that's available regardless of their stat config is almost just a shadow damage-wise when compared to the build-specific Nova.

< Message edited by Laeon val Observis -- 6/10/2022 23:58:21 >
DF AQW  Post #: 2
6/11/2022 0:30:52   
Paytonzane
Member

Well, wasn't that a confusing surprise to me. I was playing earlier, been playing the last week or so on a new character after being gone for a few years, decided "I'm gonna pick up another 10K DCs, finally get that cloak, and get the Armor Closet and the currently selling Scythe, and I'll pick up 10 bagslots for 1k DCs, that'll help hold all this new loot."

Imagine my surprise when after I bought 10 slots, I suddenly had 60 slots in my bag! I was just confused, figured maybe some point in the last few years you changed how buying slots worked and never changed the dialogue box with Cysero. Either way, happy to have so many slots now for storing stuff while adventuring!

Excited to see the new Dragon menu. I'm sure it'll be helpful as I quest through Book 1 again. Ironic that I get a dragon menu update right as I get to the dragon-slayer part of Book 1 with the Ice Orb.
DF  Post #: 3
6/11/2022 4:26:39   
Vaalirus
Member

It's always nice to be able to sit down with your friends/former enemies and just have a hearty meal and a nice long talk to boot. Also do my eyes deceive me? We finally have weapons that do fear damage !?!?!?! Ah and they have that nice mana hue to them as well.


@Laeon val Observis
quote:

. What'll happen if the Hero themselves suffer a similar fate to Remthalas as it is canon after all that we suffer our own taint from Kathool?


I think we might actually be good on that front thanks to Aquella. Pretty sure she managed to cleanse us of Kathool corruption while it was still too early to completely destroy us at the end thanks to being in-sync with the water orb. Remthalas had no such luck however.

spoiler:



Okay so I just wanna get this out of the way now, the next time we find Fluffy's egg let's just put it in our bag because this is like the third time they've been lost with the first two times resulting in them being in the hands of those aligned with the Shadowscythe and they've gone through enough at this point. I also do like that Draco does appear to be concerned about the whereabouts of Fluffy as for all intents and purposes they are siblings at the end of the day (although whether or not Draco feels any sliver of a familial bond by virtue of their existence I cannot say) that have their fates intertwined with that of Lore and we knew that even before Genokratos gave us the lore dump. The question now though is when will Fluffy or Fluffy's egg return and who potentially might end up being their rider, assuming they even get one when they return in the story.

With Fluffy out of the way...we have Remthalas. I got to say I'm a bit disappointed that he's not getting a burial and what smore is that his corpse has to be sealed away in a box somewhere inside Key. Though I grant that it is necessary if the taint of Kathool madness still lingers on Remthalas' body even after he died. What's horrifying though is the fact that the madness can apparently remain even after the soul has essentially checked out. As for how Remthalas got infected in the first place...yep it was Davey. Aquella playing with the orb and Davey later stealing it caused the water elves to be defenseless when Kathool woke up and started turning them all into his adepts. It was a crappy move on the Avatars part to not help them however once it occurred so it makes sense why Remthalas would have been so angry with them. What I question though now is whether or not the Abyssal tribe is now free? We saw Aqeulla was able to bring her people back from the brink but she had to heal them all by hand. So did she travel to all the water elves and heal them all successfully ? Or are there still a couple of unfortunate water elves within Kathool's thrall?


Then there is that little tid bit about the mana of Loreians returning to the mana core upon death, at least as Notha describes it anyway. If this is the case I wonder if a collective memory of all those that have perished have is lying within the core as well. I can't get Vseslava's comment about it being important that the core still slumbers out of my mind especially since its about to be poked at by Jaania and Akanthus. Either way, I'm also curious about these exceptions Notha mentioned, we all know that those that die do not always end up in deaths realm but the Plane of Elemental Spirits too, but it is interesting to know there are more sources to lead into.

Moving on, I never given it much thought about how long ago this started with the loss of girl that just wanted bake bread and it's nice that we've gone to Serenity's memorial to have a moment of introspection. I also love that who comes to give a penny to your thoughts changes between Notha or Uaanta depending on you chose to side with in Revolution. I love them both but I think I liked Notha's interaction just a tad bit more for its comedic bits.


I do wonder when Lock and Key will show up again and what other secrets they have to share with us. There is so much more to learn

It's also nice to know Notha, Uaanta, and Myalos won't be leaving Greenguard just yet (although it does beg the question of whether or not they'll be showing up at the finale of Book 3 to help us out similarly to finale of the Orb Saga) Also Myalos/Kordana meet up when?


Ah but that concludes the Maleurous saga and onto the next adventure we go!







_____________________________

Let us find tranquility.
DF  Post #: 4
6/11/2022 4:55:10   
Laeon val Observis
Member
 

^
spoiler:

I'll take your answer for now as plausibly true due to the convolution that is Book 1 and the existence that our Kathool's madness still lingers on based on the spoiler of our DmK self in the Inn. The only thing I'll doubt on your statement is Remthalas alive during Aquella's youth. Herself and her water elf kin don't even possess our late mad abyssal water elf's lure for one, so there's a clear species difference in water elves. Second, per the current terms in the Water Orb saga, the water elves that were guarding it were using it for their protection. I believe the semantics here means they were more concerned for their personal safety against other races rather than being used for some sealing shenanigans.
DF AQW  Post #: 5
6/11/2022 5:08:37   
Flabagast
Member

Fifty inventory slots! I feel absolutely spoiled. It's going to be so much easier to experiment with different builds now! The new dragon interface is a welcome change too. It's nice to imagine they aren't just stuffed in our backpack a lot of the time xD An easy way to sell stuff was a clever idea as well!

Concerning the Malerous epilogue:
spoiler:

I kind of hoped we would visit Aquella to possibly get some info on the Abyssal Water Elves and give Remthalas a proper send-off, but Notha providing background and Lock and Key isolating his body in case of any residual influence from Kathool makes sense too. Can't say I don't share Uaanta's concerns though...

I also found the talk around death interesting. We already knew souls of the dead go to Death's realm (we got a clear view of that with Serenity's spirit) but since it's implied their may be a connection between the soul and Mana, does this mean there is be a relationship between the two? Although, Notha said Mana returning to the Core is a 'gradual' process, while movement to Death's realm seems to be pretty instantaneous. Perhaps the soul is untangled from manathreads as this happens? And in the case of Weavers, their souls as well as their mana travel the Plane of Elemental Spirits to be reformed? And in the case of undead, their souls become entangled with a Necromancer's mana? Hmm...

Putting unhinged lore thoughts aside for a moment; I must say I was glad to see that the crew is sticking around a little longer! Notha and Uaanta especially are both great characters in their own way. I remember when it began with Sinnocence and Uaanta was first introduced, a few forumites were rubbed the wrong way by how headstrong she was. :P I loved to see her character develop as they story went on, and to see her that we freed her after the war was just so fitting and quite moving.
And I think Notha is really special in terms of how she's written. Rarely in media - heck, or stories in general - do we see a sociopathic character that isn't just "I'm just lookin' out for number one cuz I don't care about anyone else >:)))". To see her struggle to understand or come to terms with her own sociopathy as a child, to how she eventually begins to learn to empathise and form human connection, leading up to her praying with Uaanta for Remthalas was just *chef's kiss*. So I really do applaud Verlyrus and Dove for how they presented these pivotal characters.

And I suppose the epilogue takes place just before the Gala and all the following events kick off, so this is a pretty fitting point to lead on from, too.


A superb release! Happy 16th Anniversary!
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 6
6/11/2022 12:16:40   
Faraam
Member

What a story. What a conclusion. And what a nice, new toy to bonk stuff with going forward. Seriously, it's gorgeous. Excellently done as always.
DF  Post #: 7
6/11/2022 15:25:51   
TFS
Helpful!


I have mixed feelings on the Maleurous saga. While each of them were really, really good bubble episodes, I feel like the overarching plot was disjointed and weak.

I don't feel like we ever really get a coherent answer as to what exactly the Maleurous even are. They can't just be any random person the Avatars perceive as a threat, as this leads to more holes than it plugs up (Why is a teddy bear as much of a threat as a god-destroying weapon? Why weren't Sepulchure or Valtrith or even Nythera as much of a threat as a teddy bear?). Same for them being people corrupted by Doom, as this isn't even true for most of them (and, again, why weren't Sepulchure or Caitiff imprisoned, then?)
Why do they all dress up like the Mysterious Stranger if they aren't at all related to him? Why do they all dress up like Notha if they don't serve or even necessarily care for her? Why does Notha dress up like the Mysterious Stranger? If there really is no connection between the Maleurous and Notha and the Mysterious Stranger, what's the point in asking a question and then only providing an answer that's incongruous to the rest of the storyline?

I also feel like the overall storyline had pretty poor pacing within the context of the game, possibly due to the choice to irregularly update it after long intervals? About half of the Maleurous (Sinnocence, Nameless, Voyna) didn't actually do anything that impacted the saga's overall plot and just felt like filler - since they die without accomplishing anything immediately after being introduced, and do nothing to change the status quo or influence other events in the saga, these feel more like monster-of-the-week episodes than a component of an overarching storyline. While this isn't a bad thing, it pretty clearly comes at the expense of characters and plotlines later in the saga (Notha dumping her tragic backstory on you all at once when you've known her for 10 minutes, going from zero to holy war to zero again over the course of like two quests) that are noticeably underdeveloped.
Ironically enough, these felt like the weakest parts of the storyline while the 'filler episodes' were far and away the best - major events and characters like this feel like they should have had more time to bake rather than coming out of nowhere all at once, while the likes of Voyna got more development than the story actually warranted and were all the stronger for it.

Related to this pacing issue is the sheer number of plot elements that are introduced and immediately discarded without ever being relevant to the overarching plot (the Savior's egg, Notha being a body double for Uaanta's nemesis, the Aequilibria) and serve as a detriment by never being addressed again.
The fact that the Savior egg is never used again was far and away the most mind-boggling one IMO - if it's not pertinent to this plot, why even include it in this storyline? If anything, it just makes the other characters weaker for it - why don't Draco and the protag even think of it until the epilogue and not, like, as soon as the Firmament is breached (I'd almost prefer if it had been permanently memory-holed like Akriloth Jr. was, because this just makes the characters seem like airheads)? If Remthalas/Kathool's ultimate goal is to eat the Drahrs (honestly, gotta respect the power play) why doesn't he care about the wonderful, succulent egg Voyna is holding when he visits her? The Aequilibria being the premise of the current war and then going nowhere also seems equally bizarre - why spontaneously introduce another level to the pantheon in the literal finale to a saga they've had no relation to, and then not actually do anything with it?? I'm not sure if these plot elements were just cut short due to time/development constraints, or if there was an active intent to drip-feed lore/cosmology into the game without any other releases where they could belong (probably just me over-speculating, because Dove's quests in Sunbreeze Grove seems like they'd be the obvious home for this kind of stuff), but in either case they're distracting in a way that detracts from the plot-relevant elements of the storyline.

Remthalas also seemed like wasted potential to me. The early episodes seemed to set him up as some sort of ultimate puppetmaster villain, but by the time the saga ended it turned out he had no clearly defined goal, nor had any action he had taken done anything to influence the plot or further any goal - in every appearence he had just floated around and ranted while refusing to elaborate. I had honestly expected/hoped for him to have stolen the Savior egg and made the finale related to the rest of the saga while somehow tying all of these underbaked plot elements together, but, no, he was actually just crazy the whole time. Despite hosting the finale episode, he ended up having as little effect upon both the overarching plotline and the game's world as Nameless or Sinnocence did, which was really disappointing since I had quite liked the character.

Another character I really liked was Notha, but I feel like she suffered from the pacing more than anything else did. It felt like the storyline was almost over by the time she was actually introduced, and the solution to making up for all of this lost time was having her just dump her tragic backstory on you all at once out of the blue, when you've only known her (as an enemy, I might add) for like 10 minutes. Which somehow results in you being her friend? What?? I understand that the entire point of this character is that she's not very socially skilled, but surely it'd have been better from a writing standpoint to make sure the player (if not the protagonist) has some sort of established investment in this character before explaining the nature of her goals and motives - preferably in a way that isn't just trauma dump out of left field lol.
It's also worth noting how drastically different her speech and behavior is in her first proper appearence - I'd guess there wasn't a handle on what her character should be like that far in advance, as she's much more in-character 10 minutes (4 months realtime) later. I feel like this kinda gives away the rub - this character's implementation wasn't spaced out or developed over the course of the saga because there just simply wasn't a grasp of what she should be like.

Abrupt introduction aside, I actually ended up quite liking this character and thought the option to side with her in the Reckoning war was really cool - I as the player thought this was pretty justified from a lore perspective and thought it was a neat way to tie together the common theme of each Maleurous episide (bad guys good good guys bad). Replaying the whole saga together, though, changed my opinion drastically - this is incredibly out of character for the protagonist. While the Avatars have ostensibly been jerks and the Maleurous have ostensibly been victims, the protagonist has consistently been a cardboard cutout who offers no thoughts or emotion (as has been the case in most storylines for a couple years now, to be fair), and siding with Notha just isn't something this storyline indicates he would do (not to mention Uaanta throwing all of her development out the window to try and rip your head off for disagreeing with her, and then never acknowleding it again). I wonder if a choice like this had been planned at the beginning of development and the incremental specifics that might lead up to it were forgotten about as each episode came to pass - because it's an awesome idea, but there wasn't much build-up.

I think it's also quite unfortunate that the characters and events in this saga aren't really present in the rest of the game (Surely Uaanta, Notha, Myalos, Lock and Key would be interested in portals to the elemental planes? Surely they want to meet DragonFable's usual cast? Surely we should have thought to tell the Lore Dragon what happened to the Avatars or the Savior egg?), but that's just the fault of the non-chronological release order I guess. It's a shame, because I really like Uaanta and Notha and want to see more of them.

I also feel like the Avatars were strictly detrimental to this storyline, as their actions and supposed purpose in this saga directly retcon/contradict literally every other action they have (or haven't) taken over the course of the game, as well as what they've done in this very storyline. If they're meant to babysit the twins, why don't they do anything to stop Sepulchure from stealing the egg at the beginning of the game - especially when they try to stop Voyna from doing the same thing? If they're meant to maintain The Balance(tm), why don't they care when literally four (arguably five, since not all of the Gorgok retcon stuff was removed) great dragons have died over the course of the game? Or about Akriloth and the Fire War? Or about the Final 13th? Or about Caitiff corrupting Draco? Or about, like, half of Book 1? If they want the Maleurous dead, why did they imprison them in the first place instead of just killing them? Why did they allow a bumbler like Valtrith to just steal the vessel they were imprisoned in? Why didn't they do anythign about Valtrith once he had stolen it?

All in all, this saga was a mixed bag. While the individual bubble episodes were excellent - the Nameless and Voyna wars are some of the best content in the game, IMO, and I still have really fond memories of what an event Archives was - I think the overall storyline was pretty weak and disconnected. As evidenced by how there isn't much of a handle on Notha in her first appearence, I think the culprit here is the pacing and content distribution - some stuff got way more attention than it was deserved and was great as a result, while some stuff got less development than it needed and felt really rushed as a result.
I remember voicing these concerns about these unplugged holes and disjointed overarching plot back when the Voyna war ended (and was assured they'd be addressed by the end), and several other people I've talked to share my opinions, so I thought they were worth sharing. Or maybe I just like to blather.

TL;DR: The bubble episodes were overdeveloped but awesome. The central plot was underdeveloped and pretty disjointed. IMO Notha would have been better if she was built up throughout the entirety of the saga instead of shoehorned in at the last second. I don't think the random lore dripfeeds should have been included in a storyline they were completely irrelevant to. I really, really want to know what Aequilibria tastes like; Kathool has the right idea.




Mildly disappointed by the weapons - because they're missing That One Stat Point, they're strictly worse than other options and therefore totally useless. Which sucks, because they look really really cool and use the Fear element, and I therefore really really want to use them. I don't think giving them +1 All would make them BiS in any situation, as there are no realistic scenarios where you'd use them over a weapon that also has -20 Health and/or a significantly better element (even on classes that don't use HoTs and can just swap to Sea Chicken's Conquest on a healing turn, enabling a use case for weapons without -20 Health, they'd still be slotting VIK/BoD/healing wep), but it would make it possible to squeeze them into my build without being at a notable disadvantage. Which, again, I want to do because they're cool. It's not like there's an issue with story weapons having +10 All either, given Glory/Doombacon/UOK/Soulforged exist - and half of those don't even require saga completion! I'll still be using the spear for fashion, of course, but I really wish I could be putting the Fear element to use too.




The inventory space change is the biggest improvement the game has had in years. I'd really like to be more excited and post more about it, but staff leaked the specifics weeks ago and I've kind of already deflated on it lol. This is a hugely beneficial change and I think I speak for every player when I say I'm really glad it's been added.

< Message edited by TFS -- 6/11/2022 15:40:54 >
DF  Post #: 8
6/11/2022 16:36:54   
Baron Dante
Member

There are some points I'd like to bring up in terms of the overall plotline, one of these being the ordering of the quests.

As it stands, the Reckoning feels like the proper finale to the storyline. Something with big ramifications for the future and all that. Previously, the feeling given here was that Remthalas had bigger plans and may have in fact been orchestrating things behind the scenes to a larger effect, but we see here that this is not really the case.

To me, it feels like swapping the two final parts of the story would make for a more compelling storyline (With of course, certain changes being made to accommodate). It's not a stretch to say that with Rem inducing dreams among the group that we could still have a similar setup to what we did originally, but the difference is that since Notha has not been 'dealt with' yet, she would have a different kind of relationship with the gang. More of a 'enemies forced to work together' sort of thing. This would give time to flesh her out (and possibly provide a natural way to explore her backstory via the dreams) before the climactic finale. This in turn would make the choice work much better, because you've had time to dwell on her as a character.

Now, the final battle with Remthalas definitely feels like a final boss, both in aesthetic, scale and apparent difficulty. However, this is also sort of undermined by how his storyline ultimately feels rather disconnected from the rest in the end. The issue here is that with this being a battle of such epic proportions, it makes the previous one seem sort of lesser. If you think about it, something like Uaanta with Avatar Juice should be a big deal, but the fight just doesn't carry that sort of difficulty to it. I understand that there's a cap on how difficult story battles can be, but this is where apparent difficulty comes into play. Remthalas isn't ultimately that difficult either, but he feels that way because the battle makes it clear that it's not just you fighting here.

Another thing to consider, imo, is the structure of the storyline, which really suffered from being so tied to Friday the 13th, for many reasons. The first is a general issue with side story in general, which is that it's hard to get invested into storylines that get updated one or twice a year (And we've had this conversation in the past, I do understand WHY this is, but it doesn't remove the issue), while the second one is that with Friday the 13th comes the assumption of a war. With the initial appearance of Remthalas, there was no war, and the first quest was spent on setting up the character instead. This gave hope that with the exception of Sinnocence, who was used to set up the storyline itself, the rest of the Maleurous would be given time to develop as characters, and while that was true for some of them, the other half was given one war and being a done deal. It really does drive in the feeling of a "monster of the week" format, which would feel at home in Book 1, but not really in a current, more story-driven Dragonfable.

Wars are of course inherently restrictive in nature for story-telling too, it's "here's your villain, no matter how thin of a justification it is, they will have an army of minions for you to slash through, I hope this won't paint them in a negative light."

On the other hand, there really is a lot to love here. The Maleurous as a whole are a really diverse cast of characters. Nameless was used as essentially a hype tool for Remthalas, but the moment feels lacking because we barely got to know him after turning a new leaf. Had he stuck around for any amount of time, Rem coming and 'freeing' him would've hit much harder. (The war itself was cool with the bait-and-switch, don't get me wrong, but this is about the character itself). Meanwhile, Voyna is the kind of character that could probably have an entire storyline dedicated to them and it would work just fine. It would also probably work well in tying to more of the dragon-related lore showcased in the storyline.


Moving away from the story, I do have to agree with TFS here on the usability of the finale weapons. The direction of the gear stat meta is fairly clear, and the weapons are really held back by the lack of that one All, while having that would not make them exceptionally powerful in comparison. I already brought this up yesterday via other channels but I do think it's good to make sure that this is seen.

Also yeah, the update to bag space is almost a requirement now, and I think tying some of it to the DA upgrade is a good gameplay incentive to have players consider upgrading (Not that you should need that anyways, but still)

Also, bless the update to the Dragon UI, it's been embedded to my muscle-memory from old times that you had to always Primalize after changing elements, even when it matters exactly never, so just having it being automatic is really nice.

As usual, I do feel kind of bad that a lot of what I said is so negative, I suppose, but in this case, I think it's worth keeping in mind that these are thoughts that have been stewing for like, 4 years, and this is just the best time to bring those things up. This would've probably been even longer if a lot of the other points weren't already brought up by others.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 9
6/11/2022 17:04:28   
  Verlyrus
DragonFable Boxcat


@TFS While I agree with some of your points regarding pacing, I disagree with many of the story issues you've brought up.

quote:

I also feel like the Avatars were strictly detrimental to this storyline, as their actions and supposed purpose in this saga directly retcon/contradict literally every other action they have (or haven't) taken over the course of the game, as well as what they've done in this very storyline.


This was a major issue that was brought up in the story. The Avatars didn't do anything- they fumbled and were inconsistent and at times even harmful to those they're trying to protect. Why didn't they act against Sepulchure? Why did they attack Falconreach in the Storm War over Nythera's actions? Why didn't they go after the egg and Voyna themselves? There is/was clearly something very wrong with them. Whether you think they were redeemable or learning, or if you thought they needed to just be stopped is a major part of the saga's story and theming.

quote:

They {The Maleurous} can't just be any random person the Avatars perceive as a threat, as this leads to more holes than it plugs up

Again, Avatar inconsistency.

quote:

Same for them being people corrupted by Doom, as this isn't even true for most of them

I thought I had Remthalas and Notha clarify quite a bit that "Doom" isn't the main force tying everything together- it is merely an aspect of the force in opposition to Aequilibria.

quote:

The fact that the Savior egg is never used again was far and away the most mind-boggling one IMO - if it's not pertinent to this plot, why even include it in this storyline?

Maybe because it's relevant for the future. :O

quote:

If Remthalas/Kathool's ultimate goal is to eat the Drahrs (honestly, gotta respect the power play) why doesn't he care about the wonderful, succulent egg Voyna is holding when he visits her?

This... uh. Maybe go through things and think about it a bit more. Remthalas very specifically doesn't care about the dragons at all. Not sure where you got the idea that he wanted to eat them.

quote:

The Aequilibria being the premise of the current war and then going nowhere also seems equally bizarre - why spontaneously introduce another level to the pantheon in the literal finale to a saga they've had no relation to, and then not actually do anything with it??

They were first mentioned in.... 2017, 5 years ago! I believe Notha provides more information on how that is linked. They've also been name dropped since then. This is hardly spontaneously introduced, I think.

quote:


It's also worth noting how drastically different her speech and behavior is in her first proper appearence - I'd guess there wasn't a handle on what her character should be like that far in advance, as she's much more in-character 10 minutes (4 months realtime) later. I feel like this kinda gives away the rub - this character's implementation wasn't spaced out or developed over the course of the saga because there just simply wasn't a grasp of what she should be like.

Yeah, it turns out people code-switch depending on the situation, who they're interacting with, and what they know of who they're interacting with. I'll admit that her development could have started earlier, but her being in "serious business" mode when you first meet her is not really an inconsistency. That said, this could definitely have been done better or shown better!

quote:

It felt like the storyline was almost over by the time she was actually introduced, and the solution to making up for all of this lost time was having her just dump her tragic backstory on you all at once out of the blue, when you've only known her (as an enemy, I might add) for like 10 minutes. Which somehow results in you being her friend?

It's not meant to make you her friend. How you feel about it is up to you. If you think it helps justify some of her actions, then you can view it that way. If you see it as a random out of the blue last ditch attempt to garner sympathy, you can see it that way too.
Considering that's immediately followed by a massive war against her, I don't know if that results in her being your friend. And how friendly you are to Notha afterward depends on your interpretation and view of the dialogue.
Uaanta certainly wasn't convinced. And if you take the Notha path in the epilogue, it's still up for interpretation. Friendly/Allied is not the same as Friends.

quote:

and siding with Notha just isn't something this storyline indicates he would do (not to mention Uaanta throwing all of her development out the window to try and rip your head off for disagreeing with her, and then never acknowleding it again).

...Hence why you're allowed not to side with Notha. If you don't feel that she convinced you, you're allowed to decide to side with Uaanta. I think for Uaanta there, there's a difference between "haha yeah, maybe we can chill a little bit on annihilating everything in our path" and "my gods have been reduced to nothing and it's your fault". She snapped.

quote:

Why do they all dress up like the Mysterious Stranger if they aren't at all related to him? Why do they all dress up like Notha if they don't serve or even necessarily care for her?

These weren't answered in game, I'll admit, and certainly got dropped. There is a reason I can think of, but it may not be satisfactory.

quote:

I don't think the random lore dripfeeds should have been included in a storyline they were completely irrelevant to.

The entire conflict of the plot surrounds free will vs preordained fate. The random lore drip feeds do connect to these themes as spelled out by Notha and Remthalas and others throughout the saga.
With Notha being a researcher of Exalted technology, Lock & Key being Exalted relics- with such a deep connection to the Exalted, it would be weirder not to mention such things.

I think overall, it could certainly have been much more focused, and Notha's presence could have been shown and developed earlier to provide more acclimation to her character. The long gaps between development and the need to fit the story to the war formats definitely caused some issues.
Clearly there was some lack of clarity in the way the themes and lore were communicated, since the critical feedback about the story we've received appears to take everything as a contained system and at surface level, when we attempted to connect to many aspects of the game's lore on many levels.
As opposed to a cohesive saga, the result is more a series of bottle episodes, each with its own little lore tidbits that connect to the world and game at large, while still having a through-story which was a bit weaker, as has been noted.
I appreciate the criticism and feedback. There are definitely major weaknesses that you pointed out that we are aware of and can improve on in the future.

It was an ambitious project, and we've learned a lot from it. Considering it was the first extended mega saga we started since geo left (besides main story, I suppose), I think it turned out pretty decently.

Finally,
quote:

I'd really like to be more excited and post more about it, but staff leaked the specifics weeks ago and I've kind of already deflated on it lol.
I'm not sure what you heard or who you heard it from, but considering the fine details weren't ironed out until this week, I don't know what specifics were uh, leaked besides just "we're going to be doing something with bag space soon"

< Message edited by Verlyrus -- 6/11/2022 17:50:22 >
AQ MQ  Post #: 10
6/11/2022 18:24:50   
TFS
Helpful!


Thanks for taking the time to respond

quote:

This was a major issue that was brought up in the story. The Avatars didn't do anything- they fumbled and were inconsistent and at times even harmful to those they're trying to protect. Why didn't they act against Sepulchure? Why did they attack Falconreach in the Storm War over Nythera's actions? Why didn't they go after the egg and Voyna themselves? There is/was clearly something very wrong with them. Whether you think they were redeemable or learning, or if you thought they needed to just be stopped is a major part of the saga's story and theming.

Right, I definitely get that. My confusion stems from questions like this not being asked or reflected on by the protagonist - or any character who isn't ostensibly antagonistic. It would make more sense, to me personally at least, for something that's irrational by design to be noted as such by a character or source that we know is rational.

quote:

This... uh. Maybe go through things and think about it a bit more. Remthalas very specifically doesn't care about the dragons at all. Not sure where you got the idea that he wanted to eat them.

I thought the line of dialogue in the final fight where he refers to Aequilibria as prey and says that they'll be consumed was self-explanatory (what else do octopi do?) but it seems that isn't the case.

quote:

They were first mentioned in.... 2017, 5 years ago! I believe Notha provides more information on how that is linked. They've also been name dropped since then. This is hardly spontaneously introduced, I think.

Right, I mean introduced within the context of this storyline. If it's relevant to understanding the Avatars and the Exalted, but is only brought into the storyline at the very end - after the Avatars have already been resolved - as a hook for a new episode, it feels very much out of left field and like something that should have come up sooner. Especially considering they don't end up being relevant to the events in the brief remainder of the storyline regardless.

quote:

Yeah, it turns out people code-switch depending on the situation, who they're interacting with, and what they know of who they're interacting with. I'll admit that her development could have started earlier, but her being in "serious business" mode when you first meet her is not really an inconsistency.

Right, but the immediate next quest takes place only minutes afterwards and she's immediately changed her manner of speaking to what it'll be for the remainder of the storyline, despite nothing having changed about the context in which these conversations take place. I personally just found it jarring, dunno if my takeaway from it is exemplary.

quote:

...Hence why you're allowed not to side with Notha. If you don't feel that she convinced you, you're allowed to decide to side with Uaanta.

I don't think there's any issue with the Uaanta path, just the Notha path. It's not that I didn't feel personally convinced by the character's arguments (I did! She's right!), it's that it felt extremely out of character for the protagonist and there's not much buildup that would lead to them acting this way.
This might be the same issue as with the Avatars though - while I as a player felt a certain way (which was clearly by design), this wasn't reflected by the protagonist's words and actions over the course of the storyline and the result feels dissonant.

Thanks for taking the time to read over feedback, and I hope my nitpicking doesn't distract from how good each individual release was.

< Message edited by TFS -- 6/11/2022 19:25:06 >
DF  Post #: 11
6/11/2022 20:52:59   
  Verlyrus
DragonFable Boxcat


I appreciate the feedback. There's definitely lots for me to improve on with writing!
AQ MQ  Post #: 12
6/11/2022 23:01:25   
Primate Murder
Member

Extra bag slots are a godsend! This is immensely helpful, as literally every single one of my characters was running out of both inventory and bank slots, and I had to juggle a lot of things around.

Thanks!
AQ DF  Post #: 13
6/12/2022 5:11:23   
Allos
Member

While i do have some criticism on the saga myself (A lot of what TFS and Dante said rings true for instance), I REALLY loved this saga nonetheless, and greatly enjoyed the finale, and since i'm only a **little** late for DF's birthday, i want to say Thank You, Verly. Dove. Dracelix. I'm not good with words but this does come from the heart.

The epilogue was quite nice too, and I'm excited to see more of these characters since they're sticking around here. I wanna start revolutions with Notha.

I also think the Voidcutter weapons should just get that 1 all too tho. Really weird that its only +9 all when there's a few others easy to get +10 all weapons, and they're probably better too. And it doesn't have particularly amazing stats to make an interesting trade-off for it either.
Cool to get a good Fear weapon tho, even if its just another neutral-ish element. I think its neat.

REALLY happy with the bag slot update too, its as if a huge weight has been lifted from my shoulders and I feel so... Free. I'm very grateful for that.
Here's hoping dragon feeding gets touched sometime too.

< Message edited by Allos -- 6/12/2022 6:14:51 >
DF AQW  Post #: 14
6/14/2022 9:01:58   
spirit of greed
Member

Can't believe it's over, the cultists,Valrith,Caitiff and now the Maleurous. Heck just the Maleurous storyline took almost 4 years to finish. Overall i liked this storyline very much it wasn't perfect there was things i liked and things i disliked.

Liked:
-was nice to see a story focused on the
spoiler:

Avatars

-the new characters were interesting and likeable. For example Uaanta grown on me with time.
-fantastic musics
-
spoiler:

Uaanta's change. I wasn't really much fond of her at the start of the Maleurous saga (her dealing with Sinnocence and her blind following the Avatars) but she grown on me and it was nice to see how she got changed towards a more compassionate and free person by the hero, Myalos and Notha but mostly by the Hero. Again her compassion towards Remthalas who was her enemy was both in Rebirth and the Epilogue was really touching


Disliked:
-Seriously some of the Maleurous members
spoiler:

were killed too soon. It was like this:Enemy appear>there's war>enemy dead
Such a shame all of the Maleurous members were really interesting and was looking forward to learn/interact more about them instead of them killed after a week of warring. (What is Mr Nameless really? We encountered toys ,golems but not anyone of them was a thinking feeling being with a soul; Learn more about his power, i mean really sealing entire cities/villages sounds really OP,Voyna's deal,etc..)
Can't help but feel most of these death could've prevented. Call me naive or childish but i wish the rest wouldn't haven't die. Sinnocence was too far gone i guess and death was a saving for him but call but the rest of them? All pointless deaths.
Mr Nameless death was probably the biggest pointless death. I'm interested though if Sally could revive him later on the last i remember she had his body, she has certain special powers,loved him and Mr Nameless is not your tipycal living being so who knows? I certainly hope she will do it.
Voyna's death was a suprise (and not a welcomed one) i guess it will make sense later on when the Shadowscythe will try to take over Lore again (remember there was a Shadowscythe spirit with the exact crown which Voyna had in the Madness quest).
Remthalas fate is bugging me the most, just like Uaanta i can't help but think we should've/could've saved him maybe if we only focused more on him, asked the water elves about him, ask Aquella for help etc.. Can't help but think we let him down, i know i know we sort of freed him by killing him but i wish we could've prevented this outcome. Some villains need saving i suppose, i'm not saying the hero should open a psychiatry or a Asylum for helping mentally ill/villains people (would be interesting though) but i wish the hero could reach certain villains who could be redeemable (obviously not beings like Caitiff or Valrith (Valrith was pure evil and Caitif just did what he was created for) but hey Sepulchure and Xan got pretty much rehabilitated and now i can't imagine them going full evil again, something which i never would've believed 6 years ago)
-The fact how Valrith encountered and more importantly was able to consume/defeat all the Maleurous members. Valrith even with his cape and tools simply didn't had the power to consume all of them and the fact that the entire storyline it wasn't explained annoyed me so much

Though i can't help but think, how many sleeper agents there is in Lore? People who had some deal/bonded with the Shadowscythe? Would be nice to encounter more later on. (A full blown Shadowscathe invasion with sleeper agents scattered through Lore (in cities, foreign/Magesterium lands,Rose bases etc..) would be my dream war). So far we only had 2 really big crisis and it was the Mysterious Stranger and Caitiff. Both had a incomplete/not suitable vessel and was hugely nerfed because of it.Still Lore almost ended and it was a pain defeating those 2. No offense to the Hero and his allies but if the Shadowscythe find a proper vessel or a loophole to deal with light we are pretty much done. Can't wait to see the Rose be shocked when they encounter the Shadowscythe. (I know the Shadowscythe are alien beings but are they magical?)
Again i can't help but hope the Shadowscythe gets involved in the main story again as soon as they can. The Shadowscythe was not much used in DF i mean sure we got 2 big crisis because of them but when you think about how DF is out since 2006 it's not much. The Rose are an interesting situation but whenever the Shadowscythe appear the game gets a thousand times more interesting to me, they are and will be DF's big major evils. With the recen knowledge about Aquellibria and the Whispers i can only hope we get to know more about their origin.


Now the epilogue wasn't really what i expected. Was nice to see the Hero,Notha,Uaanta and Myalos eat and chill and it was amazing how the stuff added a more detailed dialogue about the Shadowscythe later on but some things was bugged me in this epilogue:

spoiler:

-Remthalas body:Didn't considered his body would be stored and i'm gonna be honest i hated it, i was hoping we hand over his body to the water elves and he gets a proper burial, that's the least he deserved. It also didn't made any sense to me, he got some Kathool madness leaking? Assuming we beating him up didn't fixed it (what let's be honest 90% of the time fixes everything) why we didn't just delivered him to Aquella and she could've purified him? Literally the entire epilogue i was waiting when the Hero brings it up.

-The Reset:Not gonna lie was pretty excited when they were so close to realise the reset and was pretty bummed when of course it got tossed aside.
Now here's a food for thought:What would happen if the Hero and the entire Lore would learn about the Reset just like how they will learn about the Avatars? Would it be a disaster (especially after the whole Avatars situation)? How would it affect the Hero and the people of Lore? Would there be civil wars? Madness? Chaos? Can't imagine how i would react to something like that.


-The End: It was not at all bad i was just expecting some sneak peek towards the next storyline i guess and was just stare at the end for a minute in silence.

In the end this saga maybe wasn't perfect but overall i liked it very much. Congratulation Verly and Dove for giving us this amazing (and long lol) saga :)

< Message edited by spirit of greed -- 6/14/2022 9:23:08 >
DF AQW  Post #: 15
6/14/2022 16:01:38   
Shadow_Knight41
Member
 

Phew, I finally managed to read the whole page... It's a real burden on me because I WANT to post something but also wouldn't without reading the feed first... The same frustration also hit me back in Reckoning...
Anyways, I won't add anything about the story, Remthalas isn't the only one bad at communication haha. Let's just say I loved it.

Extra bag spaces were a really, really welcome gift :)

About the finale... is it just me or is it insinuated that we were eating... an abyssal fish stew? LOL
DF  Post #: 16
6/17/2022 17:05:56   
Nigraz
Member

Hey guys. I wasn't sure where to post this, but I just bought the DoomKnight package since getting a job and some income after years of playing DF as a kid, and also on and off through my teenage years.

It felt so good to spend money in support of the game and its devs. Dragonfable has brought a lot of joy to my life and it continues to do so. I'm glad the game is still alive with a dedicated community to keep it running.

Crazy to think my first and only purchase 11 years ago was on my mom's credit card for a Dragon Amulet. I now have a DoomKnight package charge pending on my own. Wouldn't have it any other way!


Love each and every one of you. Happy 16th Anniversary, Dragonfable. <3


< Message edited by Nigraz -- 6/17/2022 17:06:57 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 17
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