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Build copying is why the game is so *unbalanced*

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5/1/2013 20:01:55   
Cyber Dream
Member

Lets just face the fact here, if there wasnt so much build copying, noone would be coming to the fourms crying about OPed builds then causing them to get nerfed.
AQW Epic  Post #: 1
5/1/2013 20:16:57   
TRizZzCENTRINO
Member

how are you going to solve it? hiding builds is not an option since then, only a few players would get to dominate 1v1 with their OP builds, also many players likes to show off, so they would give out their build through social media or the forums.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 2
5/1/2013 20:17:05   
Xendran
Member

Flat out wrong.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 3
5/1/2013 20:18:36   
TRizZzCENTRINO
Member

even though i agree with you but atleast explain and expand your answer rather than saying
quote:

Flat out wrong.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 4
5/1/2013 20:18:37   
goldslayer1
Member

i wouldn't say its completely why, but it does have a role in it IMO.
AQW Epic  Post #: 5
5/1/2013 20:29:49   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Possibly. I mean, if infernal android was only available to varium players or available only as a promo, then it definitely wouldn't have received as much attention as it currently has now.

Some skills don't even deserve to be nerfed, but the player base just whines because they don't bother finding their own solution such as thinking up a counter build, and they just complain and wait till the devs are forced to nerf it.
Epic  Post #: 6
5/1/2013 20:30:27   
DanniiBoiixD
Member

How many people using a build has NOTHING to do with it being OP. The title of this thread is completely invalid.

< Message edited by DanniiBoiixD -- 5/1/2013 20:36:57 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 7
5/1/2013 20:35:41   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 @trizz Whether one person uses the build, or 10,000 use it, has no effect on how powerful the build is. An OPd build is OPd regardless of how many people use it. Not many people used the old Supercharge build from Alpha judging by some threads I found in the old ED forums(one topic by the guy who made the build complaining that one guy copied his build) but it was still OPd.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 8
5/1/2013 20:38:32   
Mother1
Member

@ exploding penguin

I can agree with this to a degree. Most of the time it is people who run into the build that has an advantage over them, and because they can't beat that build they want it nerfed. But the infernal android I can agree with the masses especially when it first came out.

I still remember when I was facing a focus 5 Tactical merc who had 7 health against me who had 90 health, I am thinking I got this match in the bag because there was nothing he could use to take me out and he could heal either. But then he uses rage with the infernal android's laser and it did 45 45 with a crit without the infernal intridictor and I was like WTH?!

Also even if they made the bot varium in delta unless it was just a war spoil that would go rare after the war when omega started it would have became non varium just like the baby yeti and assault bot Energy version did.
Epic  Post #: 9
5/1/2013 20:41:59   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

Whether one person uses the build, or 10,000 use it, has no effect on how powerful the build is. An OPd build is OPd regardless of how many people use it. Not many people used the old Supercharge build from Alpha judging by some threads I found in the old ED forums(one topic by the guy who made the build complaining that one guy copied his build) but it was still OPd.

whether its OPed or not, thats a different issue.

but it does affect it.

if you make a build that can win 9/10
and then the rest of the player base copies it, the efficiency of your own build goes down because of your build.

so now its not really ND mallet vs darth vader (lolz just example)
now its ND mallet vs ND mallet with the same builds.

your build efficiency just went down the pipe (if its OP, then its a different issue) because of the masses using ur own build.
so it doesn't allow for true players to test their skills vs someone else's because that other person has your same build.
AQW Epic  Post #: 10
5/1/2013 21:02:28   
Stabilis
Member

PVP is imbalanced because of overpowered attacks. This attracts players, because offence is the only path to winning, but with more skills added the issue would be miniscule.

We should accept it, EpicDuel is all about attacking.
AQ Epic  Post #: 11
5/2/2013 17:47:20   
Silver Sky Magician
Member


 The number of people using a build does matter.

There are OP'd builds, and then there are OP'd builds.

There are builds that are genuinely overpowered and fundamentally unbalanced, like the Alpha Supercharge build. And then there are builds that are simply challenging and go unchallenged because most people don't/can't use their brains, deemed overpowered by the sheer number of people using that build and the amazing number of people failing to counter it. Going by historical observation, most 'OP'd' builds fall under the latter category.

The problem with EpicDuel is that rather than adjusting to trends by looking for effective counters, as per the free market, the player base is mostly just screaming at the devs for government intervention.

And no, build copying isn't why the game is so unbalanced. It contributes to the perception, which affects effective balance, but not to the mechanical balance itself. I'd say the game is fairly balanced, actually.
Post #: 12
5/3/2013 16:35:30   
Cyber Dream
Member

Ok, lemme just get this out there. Many people declare a build is oped when a numerous of people start using it. Correct right? Most of the time they know nothing about the build, but just because its very stragetic and powerful it tends to get copied. When I said *Overpowered* I wasnt reffering to the build it self, well in some way I was but i really wasnt. Like I said a build is justified overpowered when alot of people start using it. If a couple people has it then its fine. But when it gets to the point when you change classes just to have that build then something has to be done. The majority of people who are the same classes has the same build, did creativity leave epicduel? I don't know how but something has to be done about build copying. Its the only way epicduel can move foward in balance.
AQW Epic  Post #: 13
5/9/2013 11:28:48   
koudou
Member

supported
Post #: 14
5/9/2013 15:00:52   
sk1tzo2020
Banned

 

 supported but only to a certain degree. I think stats, focus, primary, secondary and robot attack dmg should be visible, but I think skills should be covered. Would bring the element of surprise back to ED too.

Ps. with stat abuse characters EG. 130 support and is a merc or TLM, you kinda already know they got a full arty strike, or has he? he might have a maxed poison grenade and a powerful aux.

< Message edited by sk1tzo2020 -- 5/9/2013 15:03:12 >
Post #: 15
5/9/2013 15:02:11   
Ranloth
Banned


 And how many times have the Devs posted that covering skill trees will not be done since it'd result in blind battles instead of strategy. It'd be harder to copy, yes, but even harder to fight. Great suggestion. >.>
AQ Epic  Post #: 16
5/9/2013 15:04:13   
sk1tzo2020
Banned

 

 blind battles? how you work that out? you see their stats, experienced players will work out the skills the opponent is using most the time but would also stop build copying.

P.s no need for sarcasm.


< Message edited by sk1tzo2020 -- 5/9/2013 15:05:09 >
Post #: 17
5/9/2013 15:08:27   
Ranloth
Banned


 Not everyone is experienced. What about Focus 5? From stats, you will understand that they rely on the bot.. Their skills? High Heal or none? Relying on Ultimate (such as Mass for BHs) or SA + Smoke with no Ultimate? It's already been said by Devs that covering skill trees will not happen.
AQ Epic  Post #: 18
5/9/2013 15:10:47   
Xendran
Member

If the game was balanced build copying wouldn't matter, because there wouldnt be ridiculously OP builds walking around everywhere.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 19
5/9/2013 15:11:06   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

It's already been said by Devs that covering skill trees will not happen.

well they should really re-consider.
AQW Epic  Post #: 20
5/9/2013 15:15:51   
Ranloth
Banned


 Because? Same points are being raised, nothing has changed. Perhaps it was already said that it will NEVER happen? Only because you think it's a great idea, it doesn't have to be. I think it'd be great for BMs to get old SC back (3 hits) and Reroute + BL in one (and double the power), but is it really that good? Nope.

Besides, Xendran also raises a valid point. This is only an issue due to imbalance. Nothing else.
AQ Epic  Post #: 21
5/9/2013 15:18:10   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

Besides, Xendran also raises a valid point. This is only an issue due to imbalance. Nothing else.

he does bring a good point doesn't he?
but notice the big "If"?
game has been around since 2009 and they never had balance between their classes.
i just dont think they can balance it unless they pull in some serious work.

and build copying isn't exactly the best environment for battles.
do u like to virtually fight urself every single time? because at that point are u fighting another player, or are u fighting urself?

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 5/9/2013 15:20:57 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 22
5/9/2013 15:19:49   
Ranloth
Banned


 Notice the "if". Right. Notice the bit where you use your own opinion as back up and Devs have already said the reasons. You have NO proof that this will stop build copying. It'd make the battles harder since they'd be unpredictable. What good does that do for balance? None.
AQ Epic  Post #: 23
5/9/2013 15:22:39   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

You have NO proof that this will stop build copying.

so not allowing others to see ur build wont stop them from copying? how will he know what to copy?

i guess i dont have proof that 2 + 2 = 4 either huh?
AQW Epic  Post #: 24
5/9/2013 15:37:16   
Xendran
Member

Build hiding promotes even more luck, as you have to get lucky and guess what your opponent has.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 25
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