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Changing the Legendary Mode

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2/24/2014 6:20:55   
Ranloth
Banned


 I was quite buzzed for the Legendary Mode. Based on screenshots and information submitted at the time, it looked quite cool and somewhat balanced. Well, that's not the case anymore - at least not the latter. No, it's not a balance issue but flawed design, which has led to poor execution of the whole idea.

Initially, I thought it will work like this:

Primary - 1st skill unlocks at Rank 1, 2nd skill unlocks at Rank 4, 3rd skill unlocks at Rank 6, etc.
Gun - 1st skill unlocks at Rank 3, 2nd skill unlocks at Rank 5, etc.
Aux - 1st skill unlocks at Rank 2, 2nd skill unlocks at Rank 6, etc.
etc. - 1st skill unlocks at...

In other words, I assumed we will get unlocks after reaching a certain Rank - not being able to unlock any skill we want, and max it by Rank 10. Xendran has posted, in ED Balance, about how broken it is when it comes to NPCs, and there's plenty of evidence from PvP, about how Ranks make fights imbalanced due to the current (flawed) design.

This 'version' would unlock something new at each Rank, for you to invest into. I don't think making it unlock two skills in one level, could be a good idea but if they expand on the system and add more categories, I would be all for making it unlock two or even three different skills in one Rank, just so you can choose what you want to invest into. There's a catch - unlocked skills (if more than one) would be different categories, so you cannot max it out as easily as you do now. Being able to max even one of these categories wouldn't be as easy - last skills would unlock very high into the ranks (such as Rank 40+ even).

Lastly, the change would not be retroactive. Those who have already unlocked, say, all of the Primary damage, will keep it. Removing it and unlocking different categories, and perhaps re-locking them again, is essentially scamming. Sometimes, some people will get to enjoy something that was poorly designed, and it may translate onto the new system as well. Is it fair for others? Not exactly. But neither is revoking what they've had, unless necessary.*

* Enhancements were a necessary removal, and there was a refund (which shouldn't have been given). Don't bring this topic up in here, at all.
AQ Epic  Post #: 1
2/24/2014 11:05:17   
Ruthletic
Member

Trans~



Not Supported.


Its Fine How It Is If we do That It Will Make it More Overpowered and the way it is at the moment is balanced we dont want to make it OP
Epic  Post #: 2
2/24/2014 12:22:44   
Ranloth
Banned


 Ah, so it'll overpower the Legendary Mode because I'm suggesting a nerf to it? Can you explain your logic here? It's quite flawed and you aren't really telling me much, as of to what's wrong with the suggestion.

I have no interest in "supported" or "not supported", but actual feedback. Many people can beg for Delta to return, but it won't happen - regardless of the fact whether people support it, or not.
AQ Epic  Post #: 3
2/24/2014 12:27:55   
Xendran
Member

Ruthletic, how does nerfing legendary mode make it overpowered?
I think this would be a good temporary fix until they make legendary actually interesting.
Also def/res should get nerfed down to +1 per rank. Primary should be +2, robot/gun/aux +3.

< Message edited by Xendran -- 2/24/2014 12:28:59 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 4
2/24/2014 15:49:39   
Ranloth
Banned


 Just noticed the edit. I think that'd be too little, especially on the x10 system. Well, at least Def/Res - I believe leaving it at +2 (on par with Primary) would be better. At least that's until they fix broken Rage and how it works.

With this suggestion, if more categories get added to make it somewhat worth farming for, having different skills unlocked at different Ranks would give players some variety to pick from. The Mode has a lot of potential, if done properly. If left in its current state and more categories added, I'd gladly either stick to my alts (under L38 (no Legendary players)), or NPC on my main, to avoid the broken Mode.
AQ Epic  Post #: 5
2/24/2014 21:56:28   
Thylek Shran
Member

The Defense and Resistance bonus has to be 50% higher than the Primary weapon bonus
because every point that does get added to Defense or Resistance basically does get splitted
into half parts for Defense and Resistance. Also Primary damage is available every turn and
can be abused easily atm.

As example +3 Primary vs +3 Defense:

+3 Physical damage does get countered by +3 Defense = 0 (Rage not included which benefits the Primary attack bonus !)

but...

+3 Energy damage cannot be countered by +3 Defense = +3

3+0 / 2 = 1.5



Sidearm, aux and robot damage has to be highter than Primary weapon bonus
as they can only be used every third (Sidearm) and fourth turns (Aux, Robot).


Here the current Legendary bonus point system while my suggestions are colored in blue:

+3 +2 Primary damage

+4 +4 Sidearm damage

+4 +5 Auxiliary damage

+4 +5 Robot damage

+3 Defense

+3 Resistance



< Message edited by Thylek Shran -- 2/24/2014 22:31:03 >
DF Epic  Post #: 6
2/24/2014 22:32:07   
Xendran
Member

quote:

+4 +5 Auxiliary damage

+4 +5 Robot damage


I'm not so sure you want to do that. Have you seen the kind of devastation you can already pull off with 26+6 support, +40 aux dmg and Improbability gate? It's enough to break 600 aux damage before def/res. With 26 +6 support.
It's essentially a deflectable level 1 bludgeon.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 7
2/25/2014 1:49:40   
Thylek Shran
Member

I focus on balancing the Legendary categories to each other. If you think that
+5 aux and robot damage are to high the whole Legendary point system is OPed
as the other bonus points are about the same powerfull. Its absolutely necessary
to consider the cooldown turns for the calculation.

Alternatively it could be also:

+1 Primary
+2 Sidearm
+3 Aux
+3 Robot
+2 Defense
+2 Resistance

I experience the problem that its difficult to balance the categories to each other
because the numbers are that small. It does get more unbalanced the smaller the
numbers are.
DF Epic  Post #: 8
2/25/2014 6:16:48   
Remorse
Member

I say remove the WHOLE idea now while they still have the chance.


What I wanna know is why they would contradict everything omega stood for (reducing power gaps) and implement a feature like this when their is MANY options they could of done to entertain level capped players that DON'T harm balance!

Heck their is even things they could of added that makes balance better like a ranking system!!
Epic  Post #: 9
2/25/2014 6:27:06   
Ranloth
Banned


 That's great. But my suggestion isn't about removing the Legendary Mode. There's no reason to justify a removal of feature that took a while to code, only because few people hate it, to the point they want it removed.

Although, I see that you aren't seeing the potential in this mode. It can be expanded upon, in terms of creativity, and aid many players. I'm not talking about pure damage or offense boost, but being able to train "Poison Weakness" category, which could lower effectiveness of Poison, buffing all Healing skills, etc.

I have absolutely no interest in the removal, and it won't happen. Don't change the original suggestion.

@Thylek Shran
I'm fine with those values. Small, but noticeable difference after they stack up. Actually, +1.5 for Primary would be better. Half of the current amount, and a bit more noticable than +1 damage per Rank.

< Message edited by Trans -- 2/25/2014 9:14:30 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 10
2/25/2014 9:39:21   
Thylek Shran
Member

The problem is that half numbers dont work. It would require that all damage and defenses
does get multiplied by factor 10 again which I hope will never happen.

A solution to reduce Legendary power would be to cap the maximum slots from 10 to a lower
ammount. But this would also mean that the total ammount of usefull Legendary ranks would
be lowered down from 60. This could get compensated by additional Legendary categories as
the mentioned Poison resistance, healing bonus, and other new skills.

< Message edited by Thylek Shran -- 2/25/2014 9:45:20 >
DF Epic  Post #: 11
2/25/2014 9:41:38   
Ranloth
Banned


 They work. Just have it increase by +1 and +2. HP is still at +12.5, and it works by increasing first by +12 and then by +13.

The difference is, x10 system made this difference much smaller. +1 more damage on the old system, was much more significant than +1 more damage on the current x10 system.
AQ Epic  Post #: 12
2/25/2014 19:13:41   
kosmo
Member
 

 We dont have balance, we never had, and we don t really need it: it s alot better to place the overpower on ranks, that are way more fair than any other OP thing. By doing this they can focus on balancing skills and wepons for a better experience in battle.People work hard to get a small advantage considering how long it takes to earn ranks, expecially when with a few clicks you can just swich to the op classes and give a much bigger boost to your win ratio.
Epic  Post #: 13
2/25/2014 19:23:36   
Ranloth
Banned
quote:

We dont have balance, we never had, and we don t really need it: it s alot better to place the overpower on ranks

Definition:
quote:

balance

noun

1. an even distribution of weight enabling someone or something to remain upright and steady.


Yeah, no. There's no reason whatsoever, to leave something overpowered and/or broken. Balance never being perfect isn't a good enough reason to justify your opinion about balance not being important, at all.

< Message edited by Trans -- 2/25/2014 19:24:16 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 14
2/25/2014 19:33:39   
danirasab
Banned


 OK Trans,

I have just came back into the game after 1 year of being un active.
All this legendary mode doesn't make sense to me.

What the hell is "1st skill unlocks at Rank 1, 2nd skill unlocks at Rank 4, 3rd skill unlocks at Rank 6, etc".

Yes I know in legendary mode you get ranks from 1 to x.

But what is the skill unlock and these bs stuff.

Could you explain it to me what happens when you turn legendary?
Epic  Post #: 15
2/25/2014 19:44:20   
Ranloth
Banned


 Trust me, I had no idea how Legendary Mode worked exactly, until I turned L40 myself - and was seriously disappointed at how it works.

Interface: http://prntscr.com/2vvzb4
Unlocking slots: http://prntscr.com/2vvze8

Basically, you get one "Legendary Point" per each Rank, and you can unlock a slot for 15K Credits or 250 Varium. There's no limit for unlocking, so you can unlock all Primary damage (+30 damage) by Rank 10.
My suggestion makes the whole unlocking process depend on your Rank. You will unlock your first Primary slot at Rank 1, and your second at Rank 4. Between Rank 1-4, you may unlock Gun slot (i.e. Rank 2) and Aux slot at Rank 3. So you don't get a choice to unlock anything you want at once - like it is now - but these slots unlock gradually, as you get higher up the Ranks. If more categories were to get added, you could unlock 2 or even 3 slots in one Rank, etc. This way, these Ranks wouldn't give you a massive advantage in PvP - especially versus lower level players.

In its current state, you can abuse the whole Legendary Mode - in terms of balance that is. I'll redirect you to a different thread, which explains why it's broken in its current state: http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=21610975
AQ Epic  Post #: 16
2/26/2014 2:23:48   
Thylek Shran
Member

I does not make much difference if you can unlock immediately or just when ranking up.
A player with a rank 30 character still could beat a rank 10 character easily.
All that has to be done is to balance the Legendary categories or change them completly.
DF Epic  Post #: 17
3/14/2014 18:37:44   
edwardvulture
Member

@ Remorse: what is your opinion on http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=21626654

I would suggest a retroactive change. I do not like the idea of "ranks" at all. Maybe a player should be "legendary" based on current activity (Ex. 50 wins a day) or prolonged experience(ex. beta/alpha tester). "legendary" status in the context of this game should be maintained and backed up by activity and achievements.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 18
3/14/2014 19:09:00   
Mother1
Member

@ Edwardvulture

your link is broken I think you may want to check it out again.
Epic  Post #: 19
3/14/2014 19:33:36   
edwardvulture
Member

xD
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 20
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