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TM assimilation: Wep Requirement

 
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12/26/2015 1:57:44   
The berserker killer
Member

 

Being an extremely powerful skill, in and of itself, with the capability to deal 85% strength and take up to 260 energy in a single go, this skill shouldn't be able to be used with a sword. Afterall, they have Battery Backup which has no requirement whatsoever. One out of their two energy draining skills should have a requirement and, in order to not nerf TLM, I think it should be assimilation to get the weapon req
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 1
12/26/2015 12:33:26   
Thylek Shran
Member

Just what I suggested 2 months ago:

http://forums2.battleon.com/f/fb.asp?m=22053767


So there are two possibilities to nerf Assimilation for TM strenght builds:

- Technology requirement
OR
- Staff weapon requirement

< Message edited by Thylek Shran -- 12/26/2015 12:39:22 >
DF Epic  Post #: 2
12/26/2015 13:02:17   
Lord Machaar
Member

Assimilation needs a support requirement, and technician needs a technology requirement.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 12/26/2015 13:03:08 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 3
12/26/2015 13:14:00   
The berserker killer
Member

 

I think a staff requirement is both doable and easier than making it have a tech requirement. Wish I wouldve seen your threead earlier @Thylek.

@Machaar, I kinda like technician with a dex requirement. Can you elaborate on your reasoning
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 4
12/26/2015 13:31:21   
Lord Machaar
Member

Technician improves with dexterity, it would be absurd to put a dexterity requirement on it.
This skill is a game breaker when it's used by a high dex TM. So a tech, or maybe a str, or even a support requirement would limit this skill, although such nerf won't be so effective, since level 1 technician used by a high dex TM can give up to 50 technology stats, and it would be absurd to put a 40 tech/str/supp stat requirement on a level 1 technician.
Maybe change with what technician improves, this way it would be more fair, and it would also give high dex builds of other classes a chance to shine, for instance BM one.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 12/26/2015 13:36:45 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 5
12/26/2015 15:36:46   
racing.lo.mas
Member

Supported, this skill is so strong.
It should be used with staff. TLM's skill for taking energy also has this requirement and the class its pretty strong, if TLM can also TM can.
Epic  Post #: 6
12/26/2015 16:03:31   
The berserker killer
Member

 

@Machaar I see your reasoning...Im not sure and im extremely biased about the topic since i have a few builds that rely on tech scaling with dex. So my word wont be any good.

@Racing: My thoughts exactly. Its not even as if the class is strong. This skill alone is powerful and I believe that class weapon requirements were made in order to stop certain skills from being extremely overpowered
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 7
12/26/2015 17:24:10   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


I would support its usage with a staff only.

I'm not too fond of stat requirements on important strong skills. It just makes everything lean towards focus builds and demotes diversity by forcing stat distributions
Epic  Post #: 8
12/27/2015 8:23:21   
Darkwing
Member

The reason why they removed staff requirement is because it has too many skills locked with a staff.


You can't use plasma bolt, you can't use overlord, you can't use supercharge, all the important burst damage skills.

If they place staff requirement again it will have to unlock some other skills. And note TM would be next to TLM the only classes that need staff for energy control.

TLM on the other hand has only 2 skills locked with a club, and 1 is useless anyway if you're not a strength build. So TLM HAS ONLY ONE SKILL LOCKED WITH A CLUB


You guys need to understand that nerfing a single class doesn't work, unless you want to make sure none uses it ever again.


BH's grenade timed right, gives you no reason to ever use battery, atl east with assimilate you cant remove what they took. CH can steal 540 energy with EMP, and doesn't need a club.
TODAY IS ALL ABOUT ENERGY CONTROL, TM WOULD GO TO LAST PLACE WITH THIS.

Give it dex requirement or tech, if needed.

< Message edited by Darkwing -- 12/27/2015 8:31:00 >
Post #: 9
12/27/2015 8:48:12   
Mother1
Member

@ Darkwing

No the reason they removed the requirement was because people wanted to be able to use a said move while retaining the power of a sword. In other words having their cake and eating it too. It wasn't for variety is was only so they can have that extra power while using said move.

Cause if that was the case then Static smash would have kept it's club requirement because before it was changed to work with a sword (even though it makes no logical sense) The only other move that was club based was maul.

In other words it was that reason (players wanting their cake and eating it to) That Assimilation was changed to work with a sword.
Epic  Post #: 10
12/27/2015 11:13:41   
dfo99
Member
 

assimilation is a already overnerfed skill, the reduce from 50 to 40% was really bad for tm class


< Message edited by dfo99 -- 12/27/2015 11:14:32 >
Post #: 11
12/27/2015 11:23:03   
The berserker killer
Member

 

@Darkwing: That's absolutely ridiculous. Those are all caster moves, a staff should def be a requirement for those moves . However for the tms that would like to use a sword they have the capability to while being an awesome melee class with skills like bludgeon, firescythe, and malf (along with2 defensive skills). So, simply stated, TMS with a sword already have 2 burst damage skills and a nerf. They wont fall to last place. If anything, it would simply control str abuse.


@DFO: It may have received several nerfs, so why not a buff/nerf? Increase it back to 50% and give it a wep requirement
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 12
12/27/2015 20:24:24   
Foulman
Member

How about making it unusable to anyone with over 100 base stats in one stat?
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 13
12/28/2015 0:09:38   
racing.lo.mas
Member

This wont put the class on last place..
Support and Tech builds (if someone still using the last one) wont feel this change because they already need a staff for: overload in the case of supp, and supercharge and plasma in the other case.
This will only afect strength and focus:
-Strength builds: Players will have to choose if they really want this skill or they are ok with scythe and bludgeon.
-Focus builds: Might find that staff with supercharge or/and plasma bolt can work. However, there arent many focus TM.
Epic  Post #: 14
12/28/2015 7:55:04   
Darkwing
Member

You guys don't understand. You can't have a class with 1 skill locked with clubs, and another one has 5. You think that's ok, right? If they lock assimilate with a staff, then they should lock 3 more skills on TLm, like SS, frenzy, strength buff whatever.


And all the skills are pictures if you don't have energy. And if you are forced to use a certain weapon when all the other classes have free of cost energy gain/steal skills available with swords.


Then they should start locking BH's energy grenade with claws, same for CH SC and all the rest.

< Message edited by Darkwing -- 12/28/2015 8:00:05 >
Post #: 15
12/28/2015 10:03:59   
The berserker killer
Member

 

No Darkwing you don't understand, classes are supposed to be different. They are supposed to be unique.

But, if you would like to takethat route on equality, then surely you would be comfortable with firescythe and Bludgeon having weapon requirements since each and every other classes burst damage skill (with the exception of bunker buster and cannon) have weapon requirements.

This isn't really a major nerf, and you cant really compare it to other classes since devs themselves are working on class differentiality right now as we speak.

It seems like the problem here is that class weapons are underpowered? In that case maybe create a thread about buffing class weapons
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 16
12/28/2015 11:42:20   
Darkwing
Member

Berserker, what part of '' tm would have 4 skills locked with a staff'' don't you get? You want to lock vludgeon and fyrescythe too to make it 6 skills locked with a sword? And tlm only has 1 skills locked with a sword, unless you count that useless skill named double strike?


Different doesn't say weaker. Classes should be different based on unique skills , not unique requirements lol
Post #: 17
12/28/2015 11:58:03   
The berserker killer
Member

 

No I don't want to lock firescythe and bludgeon. I was merely stating that if you want classes to be equal then all burst damage skills should have a weapon requirement.

Anyway, back on topic, I really don't see anything wrong with a requirement on assimilation. Your only concern is that tms would have 4 skills locked with a staff. Once again, that implies that your problem is that staves are considered weak. In that case that is another discussion that should be in another thread.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 18
12/28/2015 12:03:14   
Mother1
Member

@ Darkwing

TM is a class that is specializes in magic and spell-casting which was why they had 4 moves locked to a staff before. Plasma bolt, overload, supercharge, and assimilation all had to deal with magic so it made sense that these skills were locked to a staff.

TLM on the other hand doesn't specialize in magic but breaking the opponents down slowly through the use of poison and other skills. and originally when the class was first made it had 3 moves locked to class weapons. However when maul was removed it became 2, and when frenzy was made usable with a sword (not to long ago) it became one.

You are comparing classes as if they specialize in the same things (which is what the people as I pointed out who wanted their cake and eat it too) which is why this seems to be an issue.

Even when TM had 4 skills locked to primary weapons did it make the class in general weaker than others? No in fact IIRC people have been calling out for this class to be nerfed for the longest even before the passive to active change because they were strong not weak.

In fact the fact we have many people calling for an assimilation nerf because Strength TM is using it to drain massive amounts of energy while doing good damage when originally when it was locked to a staff they couldn't do this. My point is everyone having the same requirements =/= everyone will be equally balanced because as point out by TBK all classes are different and not the same.
Epic  Post #: 19
12/28/2015 12:27:16   
The berserker killer
Member

 

The important thing isn't to nerf or buff classes based on what people think is over or underpowered. The important thing is to make educated decisions on skills alone. We make those decisions, as a community, based on our experience and based on my experience the skill itself could use a weapon requirement.

I've proven time and time again that every class someone says is underpowered actually isn't. I just won 1v1 daily with 300 wins and 28 losses in 10 hours, going head toe to toe with alts and individuals letting them win. To make it even better, I took a nap and I was playing with merc.

I've done this many times before and I can do it many times more. Because the fact is that their skills aren't underpowered, its just the class. It's imperative that we see the difference.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 20
12/28/2015 13:03:05   
Lord Machaar
Member

I don't agree with assimilation getting a wep requirement, unless class specific weapons receive a buff (give same stats but not same damage). Sure each class must be unique but not broken, with this nerf, str TM builds will be from the past. TM as a class currently has 4 viable builds, I don't really have a problem with that, the problem is with other classes that only have 1 viable build, or 0 in case of mercenary class. I guess static smash and some other energy skills need a total revamp to make other builds viable within each class that uses these energy skills.

One of the many many ways to revamp energy skills, as @Explolding Penguin mentioned: (I partially agree, but I still think that with stat requirements has less impact than the stat which the skill improves with, and I gave static smash as an example, thus why I suggested a stat requirement for assimilation.)
quote:

I'm not too fond of stat requirements on important strong skills. It just makes everything lean towards focus builds and demotes diversity by forcing stat distributions.

If we ask the question, why TM as a class has the ability to run 4 different builds? The answer is simple, none of its energy skills (Battery back up and assimilation) have stat requirements, nor directly improve with a stat. Stat requirements do have an effect but minor one, since atom smasher for instance doesn't have a stat requirement and it is still bad, atom smasher is pretty bad because it is kinda directly related to 1 stat, which is strenght, limiting pretty much the class from using other builds. Same can be said about how static grenade improves with support.

@Darkwing:
TLM has 2 locked skills but one of them is an energy skill. Even if atom smasher could be used with a sword, it remains a useless skill. Since when a TLM spends 3 turns to use energy skills, BH for instance will spend only 1 turn to use static smash and have 2 other turns to deal actual damage. If you played a CH before, you would know the struggle, since many players who use 5 CH builds tend to focus on draining the opponents' energy pool (Frost shards, EMP grenade, regaining energy, using that armor core again that takes energy and etc..), they do succeed in that but at the end they find themselves with 250 HP and the opponent with 800 HP, sure the opponent has 0 energy but it is too late, especially when it comes to 5 focus builds that mainly need energy for heal and nothing else.

Maybe if other energy skills dealt damage like frenzy does, or assimilation and parasite do in a way, this way having 3 energy skills or 4 won't mean you will end up just draining and regaining energy, so on and so forth, without dealing any damage, while your oponent who has 1 energy skill can be more effective (damage-wise).

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 12/28/2015 13:14:40 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 21
12/28/2015 13:11:54   
The berserker killer
Member

 

Once again, it seems like the problem is that class weapons are just too weak. So if anyone yould want to start a class weapon thread then please feel free to do so.

As for other energy skills dealing damage, players have proven to be against that idea time and time again.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 22
12/29/2015 23:56:52   
Foulman
Member

Even if TM gets 5 locked skills, it is still the only class along with TLM that can actually use its ultimate without dumping a hell of a lot of stats into energy. And no skill is useless.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 23
12/30/2015 6:46:41   
Darkwing
Member

Tech mage unlike TLM has to use a staff for that and it's not like it's easy to keep almost full energy bar l with all the energy steal skills/cores out there. EMP is enough to empty a full energy bar.... Not to mention a pyro fly can lock the skills and you don't have to worry about it all battle


And techological mage doesn't make sense in the first place, it's either magic or the science. so I don't see why we should follow old clichee that mages must use staffs for their skills...

Does summon rain with a sword makes sense? No, we still got that. Logic has no place here.

< Message edited by Darkwing -- 12/30/2015 6:51:11 >
Post #: 24
12/30/2015 6:54:56   
Silver Sky Magician
Member


I don't want to force TM to have to use staffs. Since Assimilation is vital to the success of any TM build, a class weapon requirement would effectively force TMs to use staffs. Players of all classes should be able to use swords or class weapons as they wish, and not feel compelled to use one or the other. The situation currently heavily favours swords, and we would like to change that, but having only class weapons is not the solution either.
Post #: 25
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